OLED monitors yet/soon?

EquaLiZr

EquaLiZr

Supreme [H]ardness
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May 8, 2000
Messages
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Are there any out there yet? Would it/they be good computer monitors?
 
2015, maybe.

Affordable mainstream OLED monitors are becoming the Duke Nukem Forever of the monitor world; in 2009, several of the display companies made lots of happy noises about it happening in 1Q 2010.
 
evilsofa said:
2015, maybe.

Affordable mainstream OLED monitors are becoming the Duke Nukem Forever of the monitor world; in 2009, several of the display companies made lots of happy noises about it happening in 1Q 2010.
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no joke
 
SED flashbacks...

elvn said:
BeHardware.. SED's at exposition (2005)

* Response time : inferior to 1 ms
* Contrast ratio : 100,000:1 (brightness is of 400 cd/m²)
* Viewing angles : complete, 180° in each directions.

"In fact, SED seems to be the natural son of TFT and CRT monitors. It combines the thinness of the first and the qualities of the second and improves them. Like cathode-ray tube TVs, SED technology is based on the collision of electrons and phosphoric monitor to emit light. Still, unlike cathode-ray tubes, there isn’t a single gun for the monitor, but a mini electron gun behind each sub-pixel! 1920 x 1080 x 3 = 6.2 million of guns."

IMG0014577.jpg


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SeekingAlpha - Canon and Toshiba to Delay SED


The EETimes page isn't loading so instead of linking it, I pased the cached by google verion:


EE Times: Semi News
Cost pressure delays SED introduction

Yoshiko Hara
EE Times
(03/08/2006 3:43 PM EST)

TOKYO — Toshiba Corp. and Canon Inc. have delayed the introduction of surface-conduction, electron-emitter display (SED) TVs by about 18 months and are reviewing their volume production plans at Toshiba's Himeji plant. Production was to have begun there in January 2007.

Both companies attributed the delay to growing cost competitiveness. They therefore decided to recalibrate the timing of their SED introduction to coincide with 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing.

SED technology has been gaining attention as a potential competitor to plasma displays and LCDs for large, flat TVs. Despite better picture quality, however, SED TVs must still compete with LCD and PDP TVs, which are dropping steadily in price

Canon has invested about $200 million in SED production at a plant in Hiratsuka, Kanagawa prefecture. It has been working to cut production costs at the R&D center there, but is still struggling with yields, according to an industry source.

With establishment of the R&D center last August, Toshiba and Canon had planned to introduce SED TVs by this spring. That introduction has been postponed to the fourth quarter of 2007. The R&D center will begin limited production of 55-inch panels in July 2007.

A volume production plan is under review. Toshiba will use its Himeji plant, where it has produced LCDs, for volume production of SED panels. It is being refurbished at a cost of ¥180 billion (about $1.7 billion). The plant was originally scheduled to begin operations in January 2007, with monthly production of 75,000 units. Toshiba is now reviewing its production schedule, a Toshiba spokesman said.

SED technology, originally developed by Canon, leverages the field emission phenomena. SED panels have the same structure and use the same phosphors as CRTs. They replace the CRT's electron gun with electron emissions at each pixel. Thus, SED panels provide higher brightness, color productivity and faster response times than CRTs.
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SED and FED are dead and buried with trees growing on their graves. Get over them.
 
LoL I think you missed the point. It was the reports and timelines on the rollout of new monitor tech at the consumer or enthusiast-consumer level being eminent yet going on for years (i.e. duke nukem comparison). 2005 saying in 2007 and definitely 55" tv's by 2008 etc sounded very familiar to what oled timeline has been.
 
I hate these times for displays! How come today you can only get decent quality and speed from a CRT ??

OLED... not soon enough!
 
Well at least as far as TVs, these are going to be like early PDPs for a while, I'd expect a lot of trade offs for good quality: poor life, burn-in issues, color shift, temperature/altitude sensitivity, etc.

2015 is probably optimistic. There are so many problems with these right now when manufactured for larger displays.
 
InternationalHat said:
Well at least as far as TVs, these are going to be like early PDPs for a while, I'd expect a lot of trade offs for good quality: poor life, burn-in issues, color shift, temperature/altitude sensitivity, etc.

2015 is probably optimistic. There are so many problems with these right now when manufactured for larger displays.
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What do you consider large? I'd be happy with a 27" 2560 x 1440 (let's be honest, 16:10 is probably never going to see the light of day in mass-produced OLEDs) with low input lag.
 
Corvette said:
What do you consider large? I'd be happy with a 27" 2560 x 1440 (let's be honest, 16:10 is probably never going to see the light of day in mass-produced OLEDs) with low input lag.
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Anything not in a phone.

I think the same problems they face making 55" TVs they will face with 27" monitors if not worse. I'm hoping they don't suck and cost a fortune, but I'm not very optimistic :)

If these come out and start selling in any quantity, what it will likely do is force LCD's picture quality to get better to compete. That's a good thing.
 
They are never coming out with anything else. This IS IT lmao.

Look at the first couple of pages of the epic FW900 thread from 7 years ago:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=952788

SEVEN YEARS ago there are posts of dudes sayin "well I just picked the FW900 up so hopefully it tides me over a few years until OLED comes out!" WAAAAY back in 2005 people thought OLED was just around the corner...

LMAO its never gonna happen people so man up and eat the cat poop that display makers have been serving the last ten years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_G2Ji432cs

Or have a red pill and join us on the CRT side :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6qG4yn-Ps
 
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SONY did make an OLED TV, the XEL-1, and it can be used as a computer monitor. However, I heard it has terrible color fidelity, has a native resolution of 960x540. It cost a whopping $2,500 during launch, although I saw some used ones on Ebay for $500-600. Seeing how OLED monitors will be digital and have a grid of pixels, I don't think they'll reach the clarity of CRTs until they can hit Retina Display pixel densities or higher. Right now, the only companies I see even making an active effort to push OLED into the mainstream are Samsung and LG Display. SONY quit (or is taking a break from) OLED development and is combating it with an experimental technology called Crystal LED.
 
DirectXtreme said:
SONY did make an OLED TV, the XEL-1, and it can be used as a computer monitor. However, I heard it has terrible color fidelity, has a native resolution of 960x540. It cost a whopping $2,500 during launch, although I saw some used ones on Ebay for $500-600. Seeing how OLED monitors will be digital and have a grid of pixels, I don't think they'll reach the clarity of CRTs until they can hit Retina Display pixel densities or higher. Right now, the only companies I see even making an active effort to push OLED into the mainstream are Samsung and LG Display. SONY quit (or is taking a break from) OLED development and is combating it with an experimental technology called Crystal LED.
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CRT has worse "clarity" than fixed-pixel displays. They are good for media viewing due to good off-angle viewing characteristics, lack of motion blurring, and black levels. They are objectively sub-par compared to a similarly sized LCD due to how they render a screen compared to LCD for text viewing and when higher brightness levels are needed like when sunlight will hit the display. This is why most automative displays use transflective LCDs.

CRT projectors are often coveted because of this lack of clarity. The way a high end CRT projector resolves a high definition signal has a certain warmth to it because the individual pixels are not quite as "sharp" as with LCD projection.

I have owned an FW900, G500, etc. They are good displays for gaming, movies, but they are not perfect by any means for other uses. OLED displays will likely have much better "clarity" than a CRT of similar size and maximum resolution. The motion and color characteristics we'll have to wait and see.
 
well, since we have 2 OLED tvs launching this year, and Sonys Crystal LED as well, it would seem that something is finally "around the corner"
 
InternationalHat said:
CRT has worse "clarity" than fixed-pixel displays. They are good for media viewing due to good off-angle viewing characteristics, lack of motion blurring, and black levels. They are objectively sub-par compared to a similarly sized LCD due to how they render a screen compared to LCD for text viewing and when higher brightness levels are needed like when sunlight will hit the display. This is why most automative displays use transflective LCDs.

CRT projectors are often coveted because of this lack of clarity. The way a high end CRT projector resolves a high definition signal has a certain warmth to it because the individual pixels are not quite as "sharp" as with LCD projection.

I have owned an FW900, G500, etc. They are good displays for gaming, movies, but they are not perfect by any means for other uses. OLED displays will likely have much better "clarity" than a CRT of similar size and maximum resolution. The motion and color characteristics we'll have to wait and see.
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Never had an opportunity for a CRT projector. However, hiding the pixels is certainly one reason I like DLP for TV. Have a hard time with the visible pixel structure of some other tech...

A properly set up CRT (e.g., using a resolution that doesn't exceed the stripe pitch and ideally allows for some error) will still render text very well. Only true general purpose display tech to this day I think...

Agree that OLED with its superior contrast should be very sharp indeed though....
 
l88bastard said:
They are never coming out with anything else. This IS IT lmao.

Look at the first couple of pages of the epic FW900 thread from 7 years ago:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=952788

SEVEN YEARS ago there are posts of dudes sayin "well I just picked the FW900 up so hopefully it tides me over a few years until OLED comes out!" WAAAAY back in 2005 people thought OLED was just around the corner...

LMAO its never gonna happen people so man up and eat the cat poop that display makers have been serving the last ten years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_G2Ji432cs

Or have a red pill and join us on the CRT side :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6qG4yn-Ps
Click to expand...

Will have to hope that OLED picks up the banner for image quality. CRTs won't last forever....
 
Even if they are mass marketed they are going to cost a arm and a leg for a long time.
I wanted SED monitors to come out so badly in 2008 because of the inablity to use regular florent tubes. So I used a led samsung projector for about two years only to have led lcd monitors come down in price and luckily I can use them now =) Happiest guy in the world now just because I have a Asus led lcd. Now I can play Guild Wars 2 and all that good stuff.
 
EquaLiZr said:
Are there any out there yet? Would it/they be good computer monitors?
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OLED monitors will happen when the cost per area is comparable or better than LCD and where margins on OLED TVs make other segments attractive. AMOLED must also continue to follow a power efficiency trend similar to LCD.

OLED monitors are not a near-term prospect. More realistic would be the choice of a general purpose LCD combined with a 32-37" AMOLED for video and games around 2014.
 
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OLED won't be used in monitors soon because of severe burn-in issues...
in TVs it can be avoided in similar fashion plasma do it. But for monitors... well, some people get burn-ins even on LCDs...
 
Yes this well documented severe burn in issue, is an issue.
 
Did everyone miss the link in the second post? You can get a 25 inch OLED monitor right now. Yeah, they're intended for video production professionals and are priced accordingly, but the fact remains that you can actually buy one today.
 
Necere said:
Did everyone miss the link in the second post? You can get a 25 inch OLED monitor right now. Yeah, they're intended for video production professionals and are priced accordingly, but the fact remains that you can actually buy one today.
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Video monitors and computer monitors are apples and oranges.

Video won't hold static patterns that burn in your screen, Pro video monitors are essentially like an expensive TV.

This is no closer to an OLED computer monitor than, previous OLED TVs from Sony/LG or the new ones coming out this year.
 
Snowdog said:
Video monitors and computer monitors are apples and oranges.
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In what way are these Sony OLED monitors, specifically, so different to make them unsuitable for computer use? They have standard HDMI inputs, so they should work fine, no?

Snowdog said:
Video won't hold static patterns that burn in your screen
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Can you explain what you mean here? Do you mean that these OLED monitors suffer from burn-in? Do you have proof of that claim?

Are there any issues besides (possible) burn-in that makes them "apples and oranges" different and unsuitable for computer use?

Edit: So according to this review, the monitors have a built-in screensaver to prevent burn-in, which I suppose supports that objection. In which case it really seems to be a problem with the current technology and not this particular application of it. So really the technology needs to be improved to reduce or eliminate burn-in before OLED displays are suitable for displaying static images for long periods of time (e.g., computer use).
 
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Necere said:
In what way are these Sony OLED monitors, specifically, so different to make them unsuitable for computer use? They have standard HDMI inputs, so they should work fine, no?
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Video picture luminance is on average 40% of maximum brightness and outside of aspect ratio handling produces no static patterns, unlike graphics.


Necere said:
Can you explain what you mean here? Do you mean that these OLED monitors suffer from burn-in? Do you have proof of that claim?
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Burn-in is mentioned in the manual of the Sony OLED monitors. Lifetime and efficiency is the top issue for OLED development.

Necere said:
Are there any issues besides (possible) burn-in that makes them "apples and oranges" different and unsuitable for computer use?
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Power draw in current models.

Necere said:
So really the technology needs to be improved to reduce or eliminate burn-in before OLED displays are suitable for displaying static images for long periods of time (e.g., computer use).
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Yes, as I mentioned in my previous post. Though I might add the only real cases of burn-in in AMOLED products are the SMD mobile phone panels which emit up to more than 350 cd/m2 luminance depending on the environment. As lifetime exponentially decreases with current and output, a panel operating between 220 and 360 cd/m2 does not provide I think an accurate demonstration of lifetime for a panel operating at a modest monitor luminance of between 80-100 cd/m2.

According to a leaked report, Samsung is expecting demand for AMOLED monitor panels by 2014. Although I think monitors are currently unrealistic, OLED is gradually moving into applications with higher lifetime requirements like tablets, and TV, where a video display of eight hours a day for ten years is needed.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
Though I might add the only real cases of burn-in in AMOLED products are the SMD mobile phone panels which emit up to more than 350 cd/m2 luminance depending on the environment. As lifetime exponentially decreases with current and output, a panel operating between 220 and 360 cd/m2 does not provide I think an accurate demonstration of lifetime for a panel operating at a modest monitor luminance of between 80-100 cd/m2.
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It is the only real case OLED product burn in, because this is the only real case of OLED product shipping in numbers. Other than that there has only been extremely limited run of tiny/expensive, executive toy OLED TV's that were never heard from again.

The duty cycle of Cell Phone screens is comparatively low. You would only use 350 nits when outside in the Sun, and that is a losing battle you won't do for long. Cell phones aggressively, ramp down/turn off displays if you are actually using them as phones.

Cell phone OLEDs burn in because they are OLEDs, when they hit mass market in more form factor, they will be burn in following there as well.

By far, the toughest duty cycle is desktop computer monitors and this is the last place we will see OLED screens.

When will we see OLED desktop monitors?

After they are commonplace on phones,TV's,Tablets, then we will see first step toward computer monitors: laptops.

Then after the above, you may finally see OLED computer monitors for desktops.

Still many years away.
 
The playstation Vita uses a 5" OLED display, doesn't it?

I'm curious how well it holds up. If there were serious burn-in issues, I think it's the sort of device where it'd become apparent after a while.
 
gurusan said:
I for one choose to forgo the Cancer Ray Tube.
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haha, why call it that? :D CRTs are great...if they're in new like condition

speaking of OLED, the OLED screen on the ps vita is aight. not as cool as i thought it would be. i don't know if mine is faulty, but it appears to have image retention (or some other spots) and the black level is not 100% black. compared to my friend's galaxy nexus phone with 1280x720res, it's not as good. the black level on that appears perfect and contrast is great.


so I guess, there are different quality levels of OLED displays. also, if they can create mobile displays with super high PPI they should be able to create a 24" monitor with lower PPI easily, right?

seems like mobile displays are seeing the improvements nowadays. now the IPAD 3 has a super slick 2048x1536 IPS display! and computer monitors are essentially where they were at 6 years ago.

so yeah, i think things will be where they're at for a few years longer here on the computer monitor front.
 
I posted earlier about this, but I was really disappointed by the PS Vita display. Maybe all the massive hype about OLED was too much.

- There's color shifting (e.g. blues turn purple) if you're off-axis by only a little bit. My iPhone has way better viewing angles, and that just has a regular old IPS screen.

- You see mura (unevenness, looks like dirty splotches) when the screen is black. What's the point of better black levels then? It's not that noticeable when something's on the screen, but still for all the hype about increased black levels it's disappointing.

Maybe it's just the particular implementation for the Vita, but if this is what OLED is going to be like, I'll have to pass...
 
alamone said:
Maybe it's just the particular implementation for the Vita, but if this is what OLED is going to be like, I'll have to pass...
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AFAIK it is a fairly standard Samsung OLED. And there have been reports of similar issues with those.

Everything tends to be overhyped, if you believe the hype for anything you will be disappointed.

OLED big black advantage mainly shows up in the dark. More important for a TV if you watch in the dark, otherwise not that big a deal. But look at iphone/Vita in the dark and it should be obvious.

Were I really want OLED and where it makes the most difference to me is in TV's because I do like watching movies in the dark.
 
man, i thought my vita was the only one with unevenness/blotches when it displays a complete black image. and yes, the color shift is noticeable. however, the contrast is definitely better than most mobile displays, but not better than the high end samsung phones.

i think the OLED in the vita is a low end one. the samsung phones have not as bad color shift or blotches visible when displaying only black
 
Not a fan of the waiting. You spend all your time dreaming about an experiance instead of actually experiancing one. Will be pretty cool when they do come out though.
 
alamone said:
I posted earlier about this, but I was really disappointed by the PS Vita display. Maybe all the massive hype about OLED was too much.

- There's color shifting (e.g. blues turn purple) if you're off-axis by only a little bit. My iPhone has way better viewing angles, and that just has a regular old IPS screen.

- You see mura (unevenness, looks like dirty splotches) when the screen is black. What's the point of better black levels then? It's not that noticeable when something's on the screen, but still for all the hype about increased black levels it's disappointing.

Maybe it's just the particular implementation for the Vita, but if this is what OLED is going to be like, I'll have to pass...
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Dissapointing review. I love my VA blacks, but I hoped OLED would be a proper replacement. Let's hope they iron out the wrinkles.
 
mahdiy85 said:
man, i thought my vita was the only one with unevenness/blotches when it displays a complete black image. and yes, the color shift is noticeable. however, the contrast is definitely better than most mobile displays, but not better than the high end samsung phones.

i think the OLED in the vita is a low end one. the samsung phones have not as bad color shift or blotches visible when displaying only black
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You're not the only one. I've noticed the black blotches and blue shift in my Vita, too. Then again, I've seen it in my Focus S, my Galaxy SII, and (not the blue shift) in my Zune HD. So I've just gotten used to it as a price of OLED, by now.

Then again, given how Sony is a potential competitor and OLED supplies are reportedly short, it can be likely the OLED panel for the Vita is not high end.
 
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