OLED Computer Monitors?

bigbluefe said:
Not interested in any of these until there's a version with G-Sync or something equivalent.

Tearing and vsync lag are just as unacceptable as motion blur and shitty contrast.
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Way to let the entire forum know you're under the age of 16.
 
RadXge said:
55" TV...
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Clearly...

LG has no competition and no reason to expand their offerings. Market saturation means manufacturers look for other markets to introduce their products to.

Also, I went to Best Buy over the weekend and saw the LG 4K OLED. The 1080 version had well defined areas of yellowing. A quick reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additive_color shows, white - blue = yellow. I'd be interested to know if they leave their TVs on all night or just during business hours.
 
The latest LG OLEDs have anti-image-retention mechanisms that are run every so often to help combat the issue. This is for normal TV viewing and appears to really help. Throw all of that out when you're talking about always-on PC monitors.
 
gothic_hobbit said:
The cost to manufacture smaller OLED displays is still too prohibitive.
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Even if the cost would be acceptable, there are other issues which are not entirely in favor of OLED: image retention and need to control brightness. Then of course there is limited OLED manufacturing capacity.

Nicholars said:
Don't know about OLED being suitable for monitors but there is a Sony professional OLED monitor already produced, if LG charge £2000 for a 55" 1080p then they would surely make a good profit from a small monitor priced around £700.. and loads of people would buy an OLED monitor at that price. Maybe they are waiting until they can produce OLED monitors at lower prices.
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Sony OLED monitors are not made for computer viewing scenario (which means that monitor can be on with static picture forever). Sony is making those monitors for high-end professional grading work in video editing. Imagine people working on digital transfer of movies for Ultra HD BluRays. These monitors are thus used with videos and for limited time. Obviously when dealing with millions worth of movies the cost of monitor is like a speck on the Madonna skin.
 
Hopefully in a couple years, 55" 4k oleds will be $1500 or less. Would buy one as a monitor at that price. Smaller (and cheaper) would be nice, too.
 
Brahmzy said:
The latest LG OLEDs have anti-image-retention mechanisms that are run every so often to help combat the issue. This is for normal TV viewing and appears to really help. Throw all of that out when you're talking about always-on PC monitors.
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I turn my monitor off whenever I'm not using it. I'm assuming it'd be ok for the few people like me.
 
wirk said:
Even if the cost would be acceptable, there are other issues which are not entirely in favor of OLED: image retention and need to control brightness.
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And this is why samsung switched to OLED in their higher end mobile devices. Galaxy tab s can be found in almost every store where I live, some even have booths to showcase the display.. And yet image retention is supposed to be a big issue for tablets, since they're used mostly for web browsing. If 11" oled displays can be made in such values there's no excuse for small 21-23" reasonably priced monitors to not appear on the market. The technology is mature enough. There's just no demand. Even the appearance of oled displays in the mobile devices are largely ignored by the public in my opinion, else there would be tons of criticism toward apple for using outdated lcd technology. People just don't care about display quality in general, and they care even less about display quality in monitors, since 60% of monitors are marketed for office use so anything with good viewing angles suffices, another 20% are the monitors for pc gamers, who in my observations are ok even with a trash quality TN as long as it's fast enough or packs lots of pixels.

The only market in the foreseeable future for oled displays is the color-critical applications. I guess we might see some OLED monitors from EIZO in 5 years or so, and these won't be cheap, but the benefit of infinity contrast ratio isn't really that big for photography editing, and you can see how high end graphic monitors sacrifice contrast for color uniformity, so there's really no dire need to upgrade. I don't think we will see oled entertainment pc monitors any time soon if ever, and something tells me that this technology might go the same way as plasma tv's for home use market. The situation with the oled tv's isn't encouraging either: samsung don't want to make them at all, and the prices on the only available lg tv's are too high thanks to the 4k res panels used.

If you want an oled monitor go buy some grading oled display for 20k, or an lg oled tv otherwise you'll have to way for 10-15 years in the best case scenario.


So, the bottom line - the problem isn't production cost or technology related issues, the problem is the demand for better picture quality.:D
 
Polar_Fox said:
So, the bottom line - the problem isn't production cost or technology related issues, the problem is the demand for better picture quality.:D
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Yes, you are right: mass consumers decided the present LCD PQ is good enough. OLED can compete only in the upper segment where PQ is of certain significance. This does not mean however that OLED has no chances to succeed in the market driven by price. Only recently LG started mass manufacturing of big OLED TV displays and they have plans to expand capacities and lower the prices. We may see competitive OLED TVs within the next 24 months. Later, in case OLED grabs certain market share smaller displays may arrive and eventually OLED monitors.

However OLED monitors have still the problem:
SlippinJimmy said:
I turn my monitor off whenever I'm not using it. I'm assuming it'd be ok for the few people like me.
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Unfortunately manufacturers have to prepared for the worse usage case when monitor is practically never turned off. This makes monitors most demanding from all displays.
 
wirk said:
Yes, you are right: mass consumers decided the present LCD PQ is good enough. OLED can compete only in the upper segment where PQ is of certain significance. This does not mean however that OLED has no chances to succeed in the market driven by price. Only recently LG started mass manufacturing of big OLED TV displays and they have plans to expand capacities and lower the prices. We may see competitive OLED TVs within the next 24 months. Later, in case OLED grabs certain market share smaller displays may arrive and eventually OLED monitors.
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http://www.oled-info.com/displaysea...tion-will-not-become-profitable-lg-until-2019

OLED tv's aren't doing fine right now at all. Doesn't help that there're gimmicks being introduced to the lcd tv's like curved screens to make them look less stagnant. Basically for oled tv's to sell, the prices need to be equal with lcds, since people don't buy picture quality anymore. The galaxy tab s for example is cheaper than ipad, but you can see how many corners have been cut with it (performance), and lots of people actually complaining that it's too slow. With tv's there're simply no corners to cut.

I give reasonably priced OLED monitors 10-15 years, might as well just give up.
 
A new tech may obsolete OLED before it's manu prices can come down. It all depends on the other TV manus besides LG - be watching closely. If we see Samsung start to mass produce it, it's here to stay. Of course Samsung also has $24,000 JS9500 high end sets, so that doesn't help.
OLED has to be profitable for the manu or they won't make it. Volume sold means profit with enough margin.
 
My next monitor will be OLED. However, 4K OLED, or GTFO. Having used VA contrast, I would never go back to any low contrast LCD tech.
 
Some good news, LG says OLED yields now at 80%

On Tuesday, however, LG said that it has made significant headway in developing OLEDs. The company touted its position as the first to mass-produce large-screen OLEDs for televisions and said that its yield has hit 80 percent -- a strong showing, but still lower than LCDs.

LG Display said Tuesday it expects to sell 600,000 OLED TV panels this year and 1.5 million next year. The company also cited comments made at the press event by Ching W. Tang, a professor at the University of Rochester in New York and "the father of OLED." He said OLED displays will not become ubiquitous for another five to 10 years. At that point, Tang said, they could outpace LCDs in total shipments.
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http://www.cnet.com/news/lg-displays-latest-oled-tv-sticks-to-the-wall-is-under-1mm-thick/

There is also a 99" OLED TV coming later this year http://www.oled-info.com/lg-display-demonstrates-097-mm-thick-55-flat-oled-tv-panel
 
OLED isn't going away for awhile. Panasonic has been collaborating with LG Display since 2013, and showed off a 4k 65" at CES. Sony is also in talks right now with LG. The M2 OLED plant isn't at full production right now either.

Also, last fall LG had a fire sale on the 9300 1080p OLED where they were going out the door at Fry's/Microcenter for less than $2000. Because of delays with the gas leak last winter, the price went back up. Prices on these TV's will fall fast as they already have on past models and will be quite affordable by next year at this time. LG has stated they want to get the price down to get this in more living rooms.

some old info: http://www.oled-info.com/lg-reaffirm-plans-supply-oled-panels-japanese-tv-makers-firms
 
ReaderX said:
Small OLED panels are commercially viable because they're small. Small panels means less panels thrown away due to defects (which are a function of process scale and size of substrate)
Big OLED TV panels are only commercially viable now because of a switch to fabbing only white OLEDs (wOLED) and adding coloured filters over them. This cuts down on the number of process steps needed, again increasing the yield.
Desktop monitors are not yet commercially viable until either the small-OLED panel process (RGB organophosphors) can be scaled up with yield improvements, or wOLED can be scaled down without increasing the defect rate due to feature-size.
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I doubt it. Greed is likely the real reason.

How will LG.Display sell their crappy IPS panels with terrible uniformity if they release superior OLED panels?
 
Panmaster said:
I doubt it. Greed is likely the real reason.

How will LG.Display sell their crappy IPS panels with terrible uniformity if they release superior OLED panels?
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There is enough competition in the panel market that as soon as OLEDs are economically viable they will be sold.
 
Polar_Fox said:
OLED tv's aren't doing fine right now at all.
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Sure they are. It's a brand new technology, commercially. The very first consumer OLED TV came out in late 2013, and cost $15,000. Today, a similar 55" 1080P TV costs $2200. That is less than the top-end Samsung and Panasonic plasmas cost in the last year of their existence. It is less than they are selling for NOWADAYS used! The 55" 4K OLED is $4600. That's not significantly more than the top-end 4K FALD sets from Samsung.

There is every indication that within the next two years, OLED prices will be competitive with mid-to-high range 4K LCDs, and they offer such unimaginably improved image quality, even people who don't know much about TVs are very impressed with them when they look at them -- also it's very important to remember that one of the main reasons LCD became the primary technology was due to lower power consumption and much smaller footprints. LG is already demoing a 1.9kg OLED display that is essentially wallpaper, and can be mounted with magnets. (ref: http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/business/2015/05/19/80/0501000000AEN20150519006000320F.html) LCDs can never hope to match this.

The reason that there aren't OLED desktop monitors yet is most likely a combination of image retention issues and simply that it's a smaller market -- 2014 shipments of PC monitors was something like 130M, it's 215M for TVs. I couldn't easily find average monitor/TV prices, but the average for monitors is probably around $200 and the average for TVs is well north of $500, conservatively, so you're looking at TV market that is most likely 5 times as large as the monitor market. Maybe as large as 10 times. And it also has a larger segment of buyers that takes image quality seriously. They're still a minority, for sure, but there are a lot more TV videophiles than PC videophiles.

OLED is the future, 100%. LG realizes that, and that's why they're investing in it. It doesn't matter if they lose money over the next 5 years -- amazon consistently lost money for decades(and breaks even now, when it chooses to). All that matters is market share.
 
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^I would say OLED might be the future since LCD will not give up easily and is good enough for mass consumers. At this point one can say OLED has chances to establish itself at high-end TV segment, to take significant part of the TV market would require OLED becoming cheaper than LCD which is not yet in the cards.
 
wirk said:
^I would say OLED might be the future since LCD will not give up easily and is good enough for mass consumers. At this point one can say OLED has chances to establish itself at high-end TV segment, to take significant part of the TV market would require OLED becoming cheaper than LCD which is not yet in the cards.
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There really is no high end consumer market. Pioneer use to own the high end market, and stopped producing their Kuro line TV in 2008. It wasn't until 2013 or so when another TV finally managed to reach it's quality. And practically immediately, Panasonic also stopped production of that TV.

It's going to have to be a high end professional market with astronomical prices that only the very wealthy can afford, or terrible quality, but cheap LCD screens, until something comes along that's even cheaper than LCD.
 
I would hope a technology with an even more impressive form factor and a vastly better picture would not have to be cheaper.
 
any [H] members actually using one of these OLED's as a monitor ?

I really want to pull the trigger on an LG 55EC9300, but 1080p seems so small at 55"s :\
 
Martha Stewart said:
any [H] members actually using one of these OLED's as a monitor ?

I really want to pull the trigger on an LG 55EC9300, but 1080p seems so small at 55"s :\
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You will definitely want to see it in person if you haven't. You may find the pixel structure too course for any kind of closer up viewing. (Been my issue with large 1080P panels in general from a computer monitor and home theater perspective.)
 
Nytegard said:
There really is no high end consumer market. Pioneer use to own the high end market, and stopped producing their Kuro line TV in 2008.
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That's exactly the case, if there was a market for high picture quality we wouldn't see plasma tv's being abandoned completely, they were doing horribly in the last years as indicated by incredibly cheap prices despite having vastly superior performance in almost every regard compared to all lcd's. Inability to get them slimmer, decrease power consumption and pack more pixels ultimately brought down the whole plasma market down because consumer decided that these aspects are far more desirable in a tv than the actual picture quality.

The only reason why lg bothering with oled is that they can introduce more gimmicks like flexible or incredibly thin displays to their tv's, and that in the long run oled panels might actually be cheaper to produce on a large scale than lcd's because they have less components. It's definitely not the higher picture quality demand that led them to oled tv's.


The same thing with the mobile oled displays, right now it's just another gimmick with intentionally fucked up calibration including messed up srgb emulation, black crush, and 2.4 gamma to accentuate the infinity contrast ratio and wide gamut. I actually don't want to buy the galaxy tab s at all now after watching some in depth display reviews.
 
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The mantra "there is no market for high picture quality" spread by plasma fanboys does not keep with reality. Take Samsung high-end JS9500 series with native 10-bit LCD panel, direct-lit LED with full-array local dimming (FALD), quantum dot technology, HDR support and sizes up to 88" (price over $20K). I do not know if anybody dared to compare it with plasma but even from the specs it is evident plasma belonged to another epoch and reviews are raving. Fact that such LCDs are being made proves there is a market for high PQ though obviously a small one.
 
You forgot to add dim, washed-out in anything but a dungeon, severely size-limited, boat-anchor, 60hz flicker-fest to plasma's shortcomings. The fanboys pretend there are no other reasons to blame than "nobody goes for picture quality anymore". lol

The only reason LG is dumping hundreds of millions into OLED is for gimmicks? Really? Time to generate yet another new account name.
 
Brahmzy said:
You forgot to add dim, washed-out in anything but a dungeon, severely size-limited, boat-anchor, 60hz flicker-fest to plasma's shortcomings. The fanboys pretend there are no other reasons to blame than "nobody goes for picture quality anymore". lol

The only reason LG is dumping hundreds of millions into OLED is for gimmicks? Really? Time to generate yet another new account name.
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Samsung fixed the washed out look on the F8500. It was was one of the brightest plasma created. I never saw flickering but I'm not PWM sensitive. The biggest downside is the buzzing, the power drain, and the weight. The nail in the coffin was the inability to go to 4K. That's why Plasma was abandoned because the future was 4K. LG is finding out that they had to discount OLED because people won't pay 2K+ for 1080P even though there are barely any 4K content on TV.

OLED fixed all the issues of plasma except it's still expensive. Quantum dot is not a competitor to OLED if seen side by side. It still has the weaknesses of LCD without matching OLED Image quality. However, QD is available everywhere and if the Chinese enter the market with cheap enough versions, it may become a VHS vs Betamax situation.
 
Can only imagine what this thing is going to cost.

Sony proudly introduces the BVMX300 30-inch *1 4K Oled master monitor- the flagship model in its professional monitor lineup. This new monitor offeres the inherent performance of TRiMASTER EL OLED monitors, Including unparalleled black performance, color reproduction, quick pixel response and industry-leading wide viewing angles. In addition, the BVMX300 supports high dynamic range mode and a wide color gamut conforming to DCI-P3 and most of the ITU-R BT.2020 Recommendation.*2 By unleashing these superb features and qualities this master monitor makes an ideal tool for a wide range of applications such as color grading and QC (Quality control) in the 4K production workflow. *1 750.2mm viewable area measured diagonally. *2 The BVMX300 does not cover the ITU-R BT.2020 color space in full
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https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-BVMX300/
 
Sony should send one of the BVMX300 to tftcentral for review, I'd be curious about the results
 
x3sphere said:
Looks like we may see some OLED monitors from LG next year

http://www.oled-info.com/lg-display-enter-professional-oled-monitor-market-2016
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Better than nothing at all, but It seems like it will be at least 5 + years before we see cost effective oled displays. This is where I wish we had a smaller player that was trying to break into the display market. Perhaps a chinese player with access to oled tech? But so far that seems totally locked down by samsung/lg.


Where is AOC with oled?
 
Seems that I will keep my LCDs for a little longer that I would have liked... :(
Anyway, I intend to replace next year my venerable 60" Kuro Plasma by a 65" flat 4K OLED.
 
OLED has burn in and color changes over it's lifespan. I say that and yet I'm eager to see it in the mainstream market just like others want. But this is one tech that, as much as I'm hugely eager to be a customer, I want to see how the first year or two of products stand up to use.

Too many things on my plate right now to give you a link but there is at least one user on AVS forums who has seen mild burn in. Samsung feels the tech isn't ready yet, but is being pushed to compete with it. LG believes the white element helps with some of the issues.

For the price these things are going to be, even when they get out of the stratosphere, I'd want to be pretty sure I wasn't going to be unhappy a few years down the road. Some people change their equipment pretty often so of course ymmv. But be sure you know what the downsides and risks are before whipping out the cash. Research the purchase first.
 
Until OLED can truly handle 'always on' like LCDs can, monitors will not happen. They're doing fancy tricks just to keep the TVs from crazy IR. it's a huge obstacle, because we'd already have em by now. Years ago, actually.
 
Pretty sure small to medium is something like 2" for smartwatches to, maybe maximum of 10 or 12" for tablets.
I don't see pc monitors based on OLED for a long time (maybe never?)
 
Summary of current state of relatively affordable OLED computer monitors

unicorn-puzzle-7032271.jpg
 
Ashratt said:
Pretty sure small to medium is something like 2" for smartwatches to, maybe maximum of 10 or 12" for tablets. I don't see pc monitors based on OLED for a long time (maybe never?)
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On the optimistic side, presently LG makes 55" and bigger panels which are classified as 'large'. Panels in the 30" would be then 'medium' and those below 15" 'small'. I've been also sceptical about monitors but LG made colossal progress in OLED panel technology, this investment is a sign that they are confident in OLED.
 
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