Oil and Gas Operations Could Trigger Large Earthquakes

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by MajorDomo, Apr 25, 2015.

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  1. Grahamkracka

    Grahamkracka [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well, I'm not a petroleum engineer that's for sure. But you're wrong about my background being unscientific...unless engineering has somehow been demoted to the liberal arts. (There's also a military background that is irrelevant to this conversation).

    I don't act as any authority on this issue. I am a concerned citizen who would rather the powers that be thoroughly investigate something before making decisions that have far reaching consequences.
     
  2. crusty_juggler

    crusty_juggler [H]ard|Gawd

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    Fracking can't melt steel beams.
     
  3. Grahamkracka

    Grahamkracka [H]ard|Gawd

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    If possible, please do this in California. That state really needs to break off and sink into the Pacific.
     
  4. Grahamkracka

    Grahamkracka [H]ard|Gawd

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    Ditto
     
  5. runffs

    runffs n00b

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    You are arguing different items here.

    You are not anti fracking.
    I think you are actually since that is what you have argued above.
    You think deep injection wells may be causing earthquakes.
    Yes, they could, but obviously many do not since they are being used where earthquakes are not occurring.
    There are serious effects on local geology.
    Way too vague which is why i guess you like it. Are a series of mag 3 earthquakes better than one mag7?
    Produced water is the same as waste water or it's not because oil is involved somewhere along the production chain.
    Way too much wrong to tackle this. You appear to have no concept of scale here.

    You have to clarify what you actual issues are with these before any discussion can occur because you keep moving the damn goal posts.
     
  6. Leonardo Leonardo

    Leonardo Leonardo n00b

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    I actually am a petroleum engineer and you don't strike me at all as someone from an engineering background. But this is the internet and anyone can be an engineer if they want to.

    If you are a concerned citizen the last thing you should do is rely on the "powers that be" to thoroughly investigate the issue for you. The first step is educating yourself.
     
  7. {NG}Fidel

    {NG}Fidel [H]ardness Supreme

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    I love the people screaming for evidence when the front page shows an image that is just that.
     
  8. runffs

    runffs n00b

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    This times elventy!!!!!!!!!

    Jesus Christ on a Popsicle stick, there is 1000 to 1 bad info or just outright lies for every piece of factual data in the media regarding O&G exploration and production.
     
  9. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Whatever the dangers there are in vaccines they are FAR less than measles or polio or smallpox.
     
  10. Grahamkracka

    Grahamkracka [H]ard|Gawd

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    Where? Not once did I say I want fracking gone (at least in the near term). I realize it's utility, and it's not like we don't need the oil.

    I never said they all cause them. But like you said, some might be the culprit. I'd like to know if that's the case. If so, maybe that can help us find more suitable sites for deep injection that wont cause earthquakes (especially if there are no better alternatives for disposal).

    The whole subject is vague since there really isn't much information about any of the effects. There are just a bunch of studies that don't go very in depth. I'd like clarity on the causes of any potential effects, if any. Why are there so many more earthquakes? If not the deep injection wells, then what? If the wells do happen to be a cause, do they increase the chance of large earthquakes (such as a Mag 7)...and how can that risk be minimized?

    I get it, the ratio of produced water to frac waste water is massive. Unless that produced water doesn't come from an oil well I don't really know what you are contending here.
     
  11. Grahamkracka

    Grahamkracka [H]ard|Gawd

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    Because an internet forum is the best place to make such a determination? I'm an aerospace engineer, so obviously our backgrounds and industry culture aren't exactly the same.

    I do what I can, but the fact of the matter is that I don't have the resources or expertise to do extensive geologic studies in regards to a subject that (admittedly in my opinion) has very little concrete evidence that supports any position. There is a lot of bullshit out there that "experts" on all sides of the fence throw out there.
     
  12. fixedmy7970

    fixedmy7970 Gawd

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    dr. oz said it so it's true dammit
     
  13. Leonardo Leonardo

    Leonardo Leonardo n00b

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    That picture is nothing more than a picture. It's a chloropleth map with gradient features cobbled together in some GIS software. The article does not mention anything about the metrics used, so how can you think it's evidence of something?

    I'm afraid you fell prey to the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy. And if you would look at the author's little bio, you can see he has a history of writing for a certain political climate (liberal). http://news.sciencemag.org/author/eric-hand

    Further, if you go to the actual USGS source of the article (which is not the link provided in the article), you will see a wide range of maps offered of varying metrics. This to me says that the author of the article cherry-picked the scariest looking image, cropped out any and all reference info (including map legend), and plastered it on his article as supporting evidence without really giving any indication as to what that image actually means.

    So really this to me seems like an article written by someone with an agenda with an intention to manipulate.

    actual USGS source for aticle: http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2015/1070/pdf/ofr2015-1070.pdf
     
  14. Leonardo Leonardo

    Leonardo Leonardo n00b

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    I encourage everyone to read at least the first paragraph of the conclusion in that USGS article (pg 43).
     
  15. runffs

    runffs n00b

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    Because that waster water has nothing to do with fracking and the original post said fracking bad etc. Waste water has been being disposed of in Oklahoma and surrounding areas for decades. Earthquakes increase now, why not 60 years ago? To those that barely understand the horrible media articles by journalism students that have never seen a well and have clear anti hydrocarbon agendas it's clear as day. They want to believe it. They don't understand it and don't want to and then people like you come along and repeat their lies.
     
  16. Grahamkracka

    Grahamkracka [H]ard|Gawd

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    Directly from referenced article

    Basically, they need more data.
     
  17. runffs

    runffs n00b

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    And the uneducated can't tell the difference so they assume all sides are equal. The millennial curse.
     
  18. runffs

    runffs n00b

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    Go read that article and get back to me. Any idea why that may be? Simple explanation.
     
  19. fdiaz78

    fdiaz78 2[H]4U

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    Do you realize how bad your grasp of science is? Switched boxers to briefs and crapped my pants. The data clearly shows that briefs cause me to lose fecal control. Switching back to boxers.
     
  20. Climber

    Climber [H]ardness Supreme

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    City of Greeley here in northern colorado had a 5.4 earthquake here a year or so ago as well as a second one shortly after but much smaller. CSU scientists were able to pin it on one of our local oil sites.
     
  21. runffs

    runffs n00b

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    Using what data? What kind of oil site? WTF does that even mean? I call BS. If they did directly have blame there would have been billions in lawsuits filed.
     
  22. Draax

    Draax [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't understand why this comes as a surprise to so many. Here in the great white north, way back in 2012, numerous studies were done which showed a link between fracking and earthquakes.
     
  23. SilverSliver

    SilverSliver Beat It To Deformation

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    Actually, no. The predominant studies were trying to tie together contamination of potable water and fracking. Duke, the big proponent of this, actually reversed their scientific opinion.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/111/39/14076.abstract

    One case of fracking near a pre-identified fault and that action potentially triggering a small seismic event has been written about.

    http://www.seismosoc.org/society/press_releases/BSSA_105-1_Skoumal_et_al_Press_Release.pdf

    Two things need to be done -

    1) injection of wastewater into deep/faulted strata needs to be banned and more produced water needs to be recycled
    2) although typically not done for obvious reasons, fracking producing formations near major faults through that formation needs to be banned
     
  24. Climber

    Climber [H]ardness Supreme

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    Call BS all you want. It woke up everyone in my family as well as set off a few alarms. I'm not saying fracing is responsible, I'm just saying we had an earthquake where we haven't had one in about 3 decades or so. Here is one article on it, as noticed, one local geologist believes it wasn't responsible, while the CSU scientists believe there may be a correlation. Before you go jumping to conclusions about my political ideology, I just finished a safety audit on a 220 crane raising a flare tower and I love my job in the O & G industry.
     
  25. Draax

    Draax [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm really have no desire to argue with American "studies". Hell you guys still can't come to terms with climate change...
     
  26. rezerekted

    rezerekted 2[H]4U

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    Always a Republican denying the science in the name of profits. Always...
     
  27. Grahamkracka

    Grahamkracka [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hey, I'll drive my big diesel fueled truck that I never actually use for anything work related if I damn well want to! Now where the fuck is my bacon?
     
  28. Lith1um

    Lith1um 2[H]4U

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    The fracking industry is second only to the nuclear industry when it comes to flat out denying any harmful effects.

    Hey, maybe the two industries should get together on a project!

    Oh, wait..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK5a_1NrGrI
     
  29. Grahamkracka

    Grahamkracka [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'll take nuclear power (with current or near horizon technology) over most other forms of power generation nowadays.
     
  30. runffs

    runffs n00b

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    This is awesome. The Self described smart ones can't actually argue ANY fucking science so the try to go all Holy warrior..

    You guys just enjoy your wind and solar at 17 times the cost.
     
  31. Scythe

    Scythe Gawd

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    A team of USGS scientists led by Bill Ellsworth analyzed changes in the rate of earthquake occurrence using large USGS databases of earthquakes recorded since 1970. The increase in seismicity has been found to coincide with the injection of wastewater in deep disposal wells in several locations, including Colorado, Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Ohio. Much of this wastewater is a byproduct of oil and gas production and is routinely disposed of by injection into wells specifically designed and approved for this purpose.

    Hydraulic fracturing, commonly known as “fracking,” does not appear to be linked to the increased rate of magnitude 3 and larger earthquakes.

    Read it yourself: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/research/induced/
     
  32. runffs

    runffs n00b

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    Please see definition of may in dictionary.

    Wow 3 whole decades in 3 billion years. Stunning correlation and causation you got there.
     
  33. Scythe

    Scythe Gawd

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    One....I'n not a republican. Nice try, though.

    Two....you either know what you are talking about, or you don't. In this case, YOU don't.

    Always some Democrat acting like a jackass. Always
     
  34. ROShay

    ROShay n00b

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    I would encourage folks who have watched Gasland to also take the time to look at FrackNation. Just for a bit of balance and overall perspective.

    I can personally attest to this. I grew up living in North-central Pennsylvania. Both wells on our property were vented. I'm certain we never had "flammable water" at home, (something I'm pretty sure I'd remember), and up until the time I left the area to enter the Air Force, I never once heard of any such incident in the region. I'm no authority on this topic, but I believe most wells are only a fraction of the depth where fracking operations take place.
     
  35. Grahamkracka

    Grahamkracka [H]ard|Gawd

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    Not most....all
     
  36. rat

    rat [H]ardness Supreme

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    Republican, Libertarian, same difference. Fuck the planet and other peoples' living conditions if it makes things cheaper for you.
     
  37. Scythe

    Scythe Gawd

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    Techrat.....dumbass often?
     
  38. runffs

    runffs n00b

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    Shut the fuck up and stop using electricity, and plastic and polymers you uneducated hypocritical jackass.

    You don't think I live right where this is going on? My kids? The rest of my family? I have 2 wells within 500 feet of my house.

    It's arrogant ignorant fools like you that think they know half of what they do that are intolerable in this world.
     
  39. runffs

    runffs n00b

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