every single mmo has these people.
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Official [H] Star Wars:The Old Republic Thread
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every single mmo has these people.
cageymaru
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Is SWTOR the most unsocial MMO of all time? The server I play on I can ask for hours in General for a dps for Hard Modes and get nobody. The people I get usually have solo'd to 50 and didn't even do the 4 man outdoor Heroics. Most are pretty competent as far as following directions, but it's so hard to get the initial group going.
Then the person I get is wearing level 40 armoring in their gear. *Sigh* I don't mind helping someone gear up. I really don't. I can't take playing with a person too lazy to do a few daily quests and buy some armoring for free though! There are plenty of geared players on my server, but they won't volunteer to run with a PUG advertising in General.
When I played WoW, I didn't have issues getting a PUG group going from Vanilla WoW all the way to the super easy LFG Tool that I despised. In Rift it was so easy to get a group going for any old quest, dungeon, invasion I took for granted how social it was. I played with so many different people it has become the standard for social interactions for me.
But in SWTOR I think the cut scene game play has ruined the social aspect of the MMO. I just can't fathom why someone would login to play solo, or just stand around scared to join a group advertising in General chat. I just don't understand it.
I do have some people walk up and inspect my gear while I'm asking for some dps to join. I'm in Tionese gear with crafted bracers and some Columni boots. Artifice crafted relics and all epic mods in my weapon. 18,200 hp. I don't wipe on content I know; and do pretty well trying new stuff.
Well that was my biggest nitpick with the game so far. Well that and stupid crappy Mouse button 5 bug that crashed my game 20 times yesterday before I figured out what was happening. M5 has been my push to talk button on vent since 2006 or so I guess. So yea you know how that went...
Then the person I get is wearing level 40 armoring in their gear. *Sigh* I don't mind helping someone gear up. I really don't. I can't take playing with a person too lazy to do a few daily quests and buy some armoring for free though! There are plenty of geared players on my server, but they won't volunteer to run with a PUG advertising in General.
When I played WoW, I didn't have issues getting a PUG group going from Vanilla WoW all the way to the super easy LFG Tool that I despised. In Rift it was so easy to get a group going for any old quest, dungeon, invasion I took for granted how social it was. I played with so many different people it has become the standard for social interactions for me.
But in SWTOR I think the cut scene game play has ruined the social aspect of the MMO. I just can't fathom why someone would login to play solo, or just stand around scared to join a group advertising in General chat. I just don't understand it.
I do have some people walk up and inspect my gear while I'm asking for some dps to join. I'm in Tionese gear with crafted bracers and some Columni boots. Artifice crafted relics and all epic mods in my weapon. 18,200 hp. I don't wipe on content I know; and do pretty well trying new stuff.
Well that was my biggest nitpick with the game so far. Well that and stupid crappy Mouse button 5 bug that crashed my game 20 times yesterday before I figured out what was happening. M5 has been my push to talk button on vent since 2006 or so I guess. So yea you know how that went...
As a marauder this was the only way I could get my healing medal. Have you ever thought about it from a different perspective? The only thing unfair about the water was Ops/Assassins using it after a vanish. Why should I be penalized because BW can't properly code their game? Stealth should not drop combat. I have set hidden during warzones nearly a full minute to drop combat so I could use the water on my marauder. I still think the water treatment was fine. I can still use the water once to get my metal, and this prevents Ops/Assassins from using it every time they vanish.
On another note I think I am about to unsub to the game. I play on the Rwookrrorro server which is Imperial dominate in population. As a marauder I am sick of playing back to back hutball games vs x1000 Inquisitors everyday. Sith Sorcs and Assassins are so overpowered in this game its ridiculous.
The whole MM portion of this MMORPG, was always the biggest question mark for this game due to the developer being Bioware. They do a whole lot of things right when it comes to story telling, and that aspect of it certainly does look good when compared to other MMOs... which is why you always see them touting it in their commercials. The problem is we're all coming to SWTOR now from every other MMO out there, with this huge list of expectations for what the experience should be, and they simply can't deliver... or at the very least, they aren't delivering up to a lot of our most basic standards right now.
I have no doubt that things will continue to gradually get better... they have to. My main concern is will they be able to 1) make substantial enough improvements, given some very serious limiting factors (more on that when I have more time), and 2) will these enhancements come at a fast enough clip to maintain a large enough subscription base that will provide the funds needed to enable them to keep that pace up.
I have a couple of concerns about the game and you've touched on them.
1. The levelling experience and the endgame are completely disjointed. It's like two different games that don't complement one another.
2. The progression on ramp(PvP, Hardmodes, OPs, etc) is also completely disjointed with no clear progression ramp once you hit 50. Sure, there's some content there, but there's no clear path for the player to take
3. There's no LFG function. While the need for this can be debated, it's widely considered a must in 2012, and those games without it are going to really be hamstrung. Players don't want to have to look for groups, generally, during their playtime. It's unfun.
4. Crafting and other non combat parts of the game are nearly nonexistent, this becomes especially evident @ endgame. The AH and economy, while functional, is really lacking polish. I'm sure much of this relates to the lack of real usable crafted items @ end game.
5. World PvP, specifically Ilum, just really isn't fun. There's a clear lack of direction in this zone, and again, it appears to be thrown together.
After having played the game from early access to the present, it just feels as if the endgame stuff was bolted on. It's there, some of it works
, but it doesn't continue the story nor does it really tie into the experience from the earlier part of the game. They had quite a bit of polish on the levelling experience. Once you hit 50, it degenerates into primarily a grind for gear/valor, and if you are looking for something else to do that doesn't involve either of those two things, you are out of luck as it stands. Furthermore, what's there definitely, imo, needed another 3-6 months in the oven. It's too separated from the rest of the game, and quite frankly, in its present state, isn't worth subscribing to beyond a month of additional game time.
I hope they fix it and fix it quickly, as I generally like quite a bit about the game. However, lacking as many basic MMORPG features as SWTOR does, their continued success is in question as players approach month 2 and 3.
I suspect you'll see this reflected in the subscription numbers during the next financial report unless some major steps are taken.
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I'm glad they fixed the shockfrozen water exploit because that's what the hell it was. As for the rest of it, for whatever reason the Imperial faction dominates badly. I'm totally uncertain what the hell that's about. I don't get it. The only thing I can think of is the allure of doing it because the Sith order, prior to the Rule of Two isn't well documented. So this was really kind of new ground story wise. We also see an Imperial army which eerily resembles Palpatine's Galactic Empire, but is openly ruled by the Sith Order. When it comes to Assassins and Sorcerers, I feel I should point out that they are most certainly not imbalanced for PvE play. Not even close. I think all the classes are well balanced for PvE. In PvP, especially in Huttball however there are some imbalances. Inquisitors have their super speed burst. This is problematic because they make the best runners. They seem to have 4,786 stuns, which piss me off since they seem to be able to break at least 2 easily, and a Marauder can't break but one stun effect, once in awhile. They have their fucking knockback, which isn't unique to their class, but others that have it like the Smuggler have restrictions in it's use. Specifically they have to be in cover in order to use it. So it's not nearly as quick to deploy. The assassin has stealth. Note that they have two stealth options. One which breaks combat, and one that doesn't. Their dark charge ability is something else that pisses me off. Why the fuck does some scrawny bitch (or fat bitch) as the case may be in LIGHT armor have more fucking armor rating with this ability on than a Sith Warrior in medium or heavy armor. What's worse is this fucking ability doesn't seem to have any drawbacks from it's usage most of the time. For whatever reason it doesn't seem to help all that much in PvE combat. Most of my friends and guild mates are using Inquisitors and they almost always get dropped in combat before I do.
These things are huge in Huttball. Any one of these things alone aside from the super speed wouldn't be too big an issue, but to give all this shit to the same class is fucking retarded. Again not a problem for PvE so much, as these abilities either don't effect the party or have limited use. Knockback is a liability in a fight as it can interrupt the attacks of your party members, which not only pisses them off, but prevents them from doing the damage they need to do. The other problem which contributes to Inquisitors being over powered in Huttball and in Warzones is their area of effect attacks, and how the game tracks damage, kills, etc. They are tagging everyone, and have more ways to generate points than the DPS classes do.
They aren't more powerful from a PvE standpoint, or even in a direct fight necessarily against any other class. But what they can do is earn points and run the ball better than other classes can. Give the DPS classes something to work with that is either equal to these aspects of the Inquisitor / Consular classes in warzones / Huttball, or give us counter attacks that WORK. If the Sith Warrior's smash attack had a knock back or slowing effect on other classes, that might change the balance a bit. Or if their crippling slash wasn't shrugged off by everyone and everything, that might also change things a bit.
Honestly, the only way they can truly fix things, is to have a dual spec, which not only allows for different spec trees in PvE / PvP combat, but stat changes you can't see beyond what they do now. Where all the powers and abilities have alternate cool down times, or maybe work a little differently in order to balance it out. As it stands now, any major changes to the PvP combat could fuck up PvE. I want PvP fixed, and the playing field leveled a bit, but I don't want them to fuck up the PvE game to do it. I think it's nearly perfect as it is. With a full, mixed party, PvE rocks. Every class, every player has their place and purpose. All are useful if they work together. That shouldn't change. In PvP it's a different story, and everyone needs to be on level ground. I don't want every class the same, but they need to be more comparable, or they need to be able to counteract some of the crap that gets done to them.
This was my impression as well. Huttball is especially an issue because of its map design; some skills are infinitely better on huttball than they are otherwise. That means that normally [somewhat] balanced classes no longer are because some of their skills are suddenly much better; this is mainly the case in Sorcs/Consulars. I think rather than approaching the problem with nerfs, which would impact all phases of the game, they should instead simply address the map and evaluate from there.
To be honest, I really came away feeling the PvP was somewhat of an afterthought in SWToR. It was fun, don't get me wrong, but I think Ilum and the random bag reward system are pretty much evidence that it wasn't carefully thought out.
But the issue there wasn't the water. It is that:
1- the medal system rewards stupid things
2- assassins, sorcs, and, to a smaller degree juggernauts are completely unbalanced in huttball (the intervene, plus force jump combo).
The rewards system is particularly bad. I can get the ball and score by myself 6 straight times in huttball and singlehandedly win the match, and leave with 0 medals. This issue is particularly painful for healers. With the trauma debuff it is hard enough to get the 5k heals, but you have to go out of your way and neglect your role to get the damage ones, especially the kill and killing blow ones.
By the way, I have an alt at Rwookrrorro and honestly, that server blows. Mostly dead...
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seems to me the problem is people are just trying to get as many medals as possible, which isn't the way the system is intended. As a non-healer pure DPS (marauder/sentinel or sniper/whatever) you shouldn't be getting any heal medals, but you should be able to get high dmg hit medals and kill medals. Vice versa for healers - you should be able to get the high dmg hit/kill medals.
Perhaps the medal system needs tweaking though in any case.
krameriffic
2[H]4U
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Hey, Baron Deathmark quite clearly states at the beginning of a game of Huttball that cheating is encouraged.
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Aside from the warzone wins which count for your daily / weekly quest, there is no reward to do anything else. More medals means more commendations. More commendations, equal more shit you can buy.
Anyone else think that money is next to meaningless in this game? You can basically only buy the best gear through commendations and each type of gear requires it's own damned kind of commendation. I've got more than 10 different currencies to deal with in the game. And money is easy to get. Daily commendations are easy to get, but not really worth it. Specific planet commendations aren't worth a shit at level 50. Centuron gear becomes worthless once you start working on Champion gear, etc. And aside from the Sith Warrior and Bounty Hunter classes, most of the PvE and PvE gear on the high end is FUGLY. I don't understand that either. Seems tacked on for the most part.
The Jedi Knight Sentinel gear is so ugly it's offensive. On the republic side, the Troopers look decent from level 20 on, and by the time they're all tricked out they're some of the baddest looking mofo's in the game, although the shoulder spikes seem a tad silly.
I feel like the Trooper class got a hell of a lot more care from the designers who were in charge of it, and the Jedi stuff got handed off to people who never heard of Star Wars before.
Why does any of this surprise anyone? Guys, we all knew this was going to be a Bioware game. We all knew that meant they were going to make the story their #1 priority, It makes sense. That's their strong suit, and they had next to no real experience making multiplayer games, much less one that was supposedly going to be thrown in the "massively" sector of that market.
I mean, it was just last week that one of their dev posts mentioned that they were "surprised" at the popularity of PvP in TOR!! That's right, surprised that when given the limited number of options of things to do at end-game to develop their characters in an MMO, a significant percentage of the gaming populace would rather choose to beat on their own kind as a means towards that never-ending-end, instead of beating on yet more mobs in slightly different settings. I suppose I'll take them at their word since, well... just look at what PvP actually is currently, but they should've just made KOTOR episodes 3-10 and not even have bothered trying to create an actual MMO if they didn't expect people to want to participate in meaningful PvP... because that's what gamers have come to expect... out of, you know, an, M, M, O...
I know. I've seen it. The Jedi stuff is the WORST. You look at it and wonder WTF? That crap doesn't even look like anything you'd see a Jedi ever wear. Some of the troopers do look pretty cool. Probably the only good looking gear on that side that I've seen. On the Empire side Sith Warriors and Bounty Hunters got all the design work. Inquisitors and Agents look like crap.
Colonel Sanders
Supreme [H]ardness
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I have to agree about the Jedi gear, especially the Sentinel. Their gear has to be the blandest stuff in the entire game. The Sith equivalents get gear that is about 2.3 trillion times more visually appealing.
Anyway, as a long time Bioware fan and someone who was rabidly frothing at the mouth for TOR to come out... I have to say, I'm disappointed. Some things were done well, without a doubt, but as we all know, the MMO market is as brutal as they come and they won't last long without some massive changes in a VERY short amount of time. And sadly, I know that this isn't very likely given the game's overall development record.
Still, I do hold out some hope that in 8 months to a year things will have been polished up really nicely, but it goes without saying that they will have lost a metric shit ton of subscribers by then. Just as in any mediocre MMO, the only remnants will be the hardcore players that just choose to stick a certain MMO just for the sake of it.
I look forward to trying again later this year. For now though I think I'm just going to see if I can organize our guild to do an Op or two, then I'm stepping out.
Anyway, as a long time Bioware fan and someone who was rabidly frothing at the mouth for TOR to come out... I have to say, I'm disappointed. Some things were done well, without a doubt, but as we all know, the MMO market is as brutal as they come and they won't last long without some massive changes in a VERY short amount of time. And sadly, I know that this isn't very likely given the game's overall development record.
Still, I do hold out some hope that in 8 months to a year things will have been polished up really nicely, but it goes without saying that they will have lost a metric shit ton of subscribers by then. Just as in any mediocre MMO, the only remnants will be the hardcore players that just choose to stick a certain MMO just for the sake of it.
I look forward to trying again later this year. For now though I think I'm just going to see if I can organize our guild to do an Op or two, then I'm stepping out.
New operations in patch 1.3, 1.4 and 1.5 along with new flashpoints. And more dailies. New warzone in patch 1.2
That looks like some massive content updates coming fairly soon!
Colonel Sanders
Supreme [H]ardness
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Those patches are months out which still fits with what I'm saying.
I know they WILL be adding stuff, but they've got a lot to change to the core of the game too, not just adding new mobs to kill or maps to fight players in for more gear.
I know they WILL be adding stuff, but they've got a lot to change to the core of the game too, not just adding new mobs to kill or maps to fight players in for more gear.
And people actually wonder why there is such a huge faction imbalance?! Even if you didn't give a rat's about the gear and just chose your lightsaber wielding class based on what you thought would be more fun/intriguing/badass based on what you saw in all of the movies... what would possibly lead you to believe that the Jedi would be the way to go?!
Well when it comes to the gear, there was no way to know before you chose your faction and class. Hell you can't even see what any of that looks like until you are high enough level to leave the first planet. Which should be around level 10 or so.
Thanks for your thoughts guys, and I agree with what most have said. I never considered water to be an exploit because I had to be out of combat to even use it, which can take a long time when you are a marauder. I agree about pvp, it must have been an afterthought in the game. Marauder playing nothing but hutball is not fun at all, I am already looking for another game to move to.
There isn't going to be changes to the core of the game. It is what it is. All your going to get is more warzones, more planets, more flashpoints, more raids, more gear, more quests. Just like every other MMO out there.
You'll see different types of PvP, ranked matches are in the next patch. You'll see more world PvP. The legacy system will add more depth starting in the next patch. Guild banks next patch.
Guild capital ships are a ways out. They are adding cross server warzones with the option to choose which one you want to queue for.
But the core of the game will always be what it is.
I have fun playing a Marauder in Huttball. Granted the class is severely disadvantaged, but I can still be useful in a match and have fun.
There were plenty of people in the beta that were posting vids/screenshots of all kinds of different gear long before the game was released. Even if you weren't that big of a nerd to do pre-release gear research, you could've just made an edumacated Force Guess based on the movies as to what Jedi would be wearing. Based on the fact that Jedi have been some of thee most boring looking and acting characters to ever "grace" the silverscreen... everyone knew (or at least should've) what to expect.
The thing is, nothing the Jedi or Sith wear after level 50 really look like anything in the movies save for some vague similarities between the Tionese / Columni / Rakata gear and Darth Vader. There is influence from the films in some of the outfits across the board up to level 50, but this game definitely has it's own style as far as clothing goes. It's one way to date the period, but some of the gear looks retarded. Have you seen some of light armor for the Sith Inquisitor? The pointy hats and goofy shoulder blades make them look like Killer KKK Members from outer space more than Sith Lords.
I still think faction imbalance has very little to do with things in game, and a lot more to do with popularity within the franchise in general. I just went to a target and they had a bunch of star wars stuff for valentine's day. Valentine's Day! Which all should be cuddly and cute, right? And yet everything star wars related for valentines day had darth maul, darth vader, or stormtrooper on it.
Sith figures have always been the most interesting ones in the Star Wars universe, and if you look at the classes in swtor, some have clear connections to SW lore:
Sith Warrior: Vader
Sith Inquisitor: Emperor (sorcs) or Darth Maul (assassins)
Bounty Hunter: The Fetts
Not surprisingly, these are the most popular classes, with more of them on the empire side. You can see this in that even though Operatives were the FOTM at launch, they were never really popular. Or that troopers are nowhere near as popular as bounty hunters.
And if you want to understand their popularity, all you have to do is look at episode I posters, where Darth Maul is front and center despite 15 mins of screen time.
You mad bro?
And I really hope they change the PVP/PVE gear to allow us to pull out the armor/barrel/hilt pieces so we can toss it in whatever orange gear we want. Such a simple fix for getting rid of the "everyone looks the same" bs. Since I don't plan on doing a lot of end game stuff I'll probably just toss the mods/enhancements in my orange gear I've been wearing since 25 since it's not ridiculous looking.
All good points.
Forgot to address your point about money being useless in this game. I completely agree. Without any effort I am always sitting on at least 1 million. Which is why I was sort of disappointed when they nerfed biochem. They made it less useful to have it, but more profitable because you could sell more stuff. Which is pointless, really. So I can sell exotech stims and then what? I already have all the money I need. The solution was buffing the other professions, IMO.
Personally, I'd rather have the fluff gear like that instead of the "biomech" crap SW get. I like the medium armor Rakata armor set, but the heavy armor looks silly IMO. Same thing on the light side with the Samurai suit the Jedi Knight gets. Both look ridiculous IMO. I've stuck with mostly Sith Champion gear (very Vader-esque) and, luckily, I have all Level 50/51 purples in my orange gear which makes it easy enough to breeze through world bosses and HM flashpoints. However, I still have to switch out gear to go into PvP.
I agree with a lot of the sentiment here that there needs to be more variation in the end-game and I agree. While I don't expect Bioware to pump out a lot of end game content immediately, a few simple changes, like dropping Level 56 puple armoring, mods, and enhancements in FP's, would allow people to really mix it up. For example, right now I wear a level 11 orange Gunslinger's jacket on my Jedi Knight. Why? It looks cool and is very different from the same armored robe with a different color/plating that every other Jedi Knight wears.
Game is done.
Ilum was shit on into the ground.
Crew skills were shit on into the ground.
End-game PVE content cleared in one day.
Operatives/Soundrels way too underpowered especially as healers (I don't play one I just get tired of crushing them).
PVP has a game-breaking exploit they still haven't fixed.
PVP is just getting stale in general. How accuracy and defense work in PVP is a sad joke.
Large scale events are impossible on the bad hero engine.
Time for Tera I guess.
Ilum was shit on into the ground.
Crew skills were shit on into the ground.
End-game PVE content cleared in one day.
Operatives/Soundrels way too underpowered especially as healers (I don't play one I just get tired of crushing them).
PVP has a game-breaking exploit they still haven't fixed.
PVP is just getting stale in general. How accuracy and defense work in PVP is a sad joke.
Large scale events are impossible on the bad hero engine.
Time for Tera I guess.
There are only a few money sinks in the game, I agree. The big thing about having huge chunks of change is almost purely for trade skills. Normally you wouldn't be able to constantly sending guys out to tradeskill up but the more money the more often you can send your dudes out.
Oh believe me, I've seen all of it, and agree, some of it is absolutely ridiculous looking. All I'm saying is that when it comes to what people would rather look like/roleplay... even if they are coming into the game completely ignorant to what the end-game will be once they get there, they'd be much more likely to go Sith over Jedi simply based on how plain, boring, and monkish they were in all the films.
Bowhuntr11
[H]F Junkie
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This is the only thing I am pretty upset about...this engine sucks. The graphics are great, don't get me wrong. But, this engine seems pretty limiting on what they can do with PvP ...
Maybe. I really went with the Empire side because my friends wanted to be on that side. I wanted to play the game with them, so I agreed on the faction they wanted. I knew I'd eventually have characters on both sides, so I didn't worry about which I started with. And after playing to level 22 on the Republic side, and 50 on the Empire side I generally prefer the experience of the latter. Though I can't fucking stand Balmorra, it drags on forever. I've not seen anything that bad on the Republic side, though Taris is wearing a bit thin on me.
krameriffic
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Wait until you go back to Balmorra as Republic.
I rolled empire for a simple reason: I knew I would be leveling solo and bounty hunter is the only class that gets a healing companion from the start. It made leveling a breeze. Meanwhile, on my jedi knight and my scoundrel it has been a pain because I have to self heal after every pull.