DangerIsGo
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source was the PCs DVI port.
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Official BenQ FP241W Thread !!! Info, Pictures, Reviews
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DangerIsGo
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Prob the BenQ
Just maybe it's a little stretch here.kornkob said:
It is listed as PC monitor not a TV monitor, maybe wrong but I don't believe I did see any 16:10 TV monitor yet.
Now as I said all my multimedia use is by PC and provided as claimed by few, the graphic card or video software players can control the aspect ratio and the monitor is not going to stretch it, I have no problem.
MY future HD DVD player or Blu Ray player is going to be OEM and PC intergrated.
Sure it is going to be much cheaper than the players mainly intended for TV use.
Sometime I watch little TV on my monitor, most often as PIP, again I have intergrated
ATi HDTV tuner so if the above is true it also should not be problem.
The monitor is listed under "Computing" so probably the most misleading might be the statement on BenQ Global site (ONLY) about the monitor full 1080p support for game consoles.
We all know, all LCD monitor have one fixed screen resolution, calledkornkob said:
"Native (maximum) Resolution" only at that resolution the best picture is displayed.
BenQ FP241W native resolution is 1920:1200 any lower resolution incluiding 1920x1080 would have to be interpolated, so what is the best choice?
The monitor manual: 5. How to adjust the screen resolution
ftp://12.145.38.159/monitor/lcd/manuals/fp241w/fp241w-en.pdf
DangerIsGo said:
Which arm exactly are you using? It looks like Ergotron has a number or arms with the Neo-Flex name.
Also Benq says the weight of the FP241W is a little over 23 pounds. Most of the Ergotron arms look like they have a limit of 18 to 20 pounds. Does the Benq weight number include the stand? If so, what's the weight of the panel without the stand?
Thanks.
DangerIsGo
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I dont know the exact weight of the LCD itself, but the Neo-flex is able to hold it just fine.
That's is strange! What player did you use and was the player not set to stretch to full screen without retaining the aspect ratio? Most players have such setting.DangerIsGo said:
How about your "eVGA 7900GT CO/KO", some people also claim the NVIDIA video cards can be set to display the aspect ratio.
Most people believe the video pictures displayed on the Chinese review site were played by PC.
None off the video show stretching. That's why I'm guessing it must be something wrong with your setting, or the Chinese used completely different monitor.
http://translate.google.com/transla...&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=/language_tools
DangerIsGo
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Ok, what I wanted to do was replicate a 1080p signal outputting to the monitor..1080p as we all know is 1920x1080 resolution. I was seeing that if the HDMI had some kind of pixel mapping so that the 1920x1080 signal would be a displayed at the correect 16:9 AR on the monitor..with the black bars. Instead the monitor stretches it to the full 16:10. When I do a res of 16:10, the monitor stretches TAHT to around 16:11..its actually off the LCD..i cant see it and the mouse pointer isnt wehre its really at.
Yes, we've already heard the argument from a few users that this is a PC monitor. If I just wanted a PC monitor, there were plenty of other monitors I could have bought.Heinz68 said:
I have no doubt that its still decent PC monitor, but from the comments here its certainly let myself and lots of others down on the 1080p/HDMI side of things - which was pushed quite heavily in their press releases since it was announced. There were alot of people wanting it for more than just a monitor.
You're missing the point here. Interpolation is not required. The 1080i/1080p frame can be easily fit within the native resolution of this monitor with no stretching required.Heinz68 said:
Interpolation is only required because BenQ chose to stretch the picture. If they'd opted to display it with the 60 pixel black bar at the top and the bottom, then interpolation would not have been required (ie, 1920 horizontal pixels, 60+1080+60 vertical pixels = 1920x1200 = no interpolation).
I'm not suggesting the FP241W needs to switch its resolution to 1920x1080. It should be using its native resolution of 1920x1200, but only using 1920x1080 of it when showing 1080p/1080i video.
Lot's of gaming I would get the Westinghouse LVM-37W3 37 if the extra cost is no problem.Kherozene said:
Many people at AVScienceForum are using it also as PC monitor and are happy with it.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=655280&page=126&pp=30
Go ahead and check it out, the thread is over 3700 post long, good reading for couple months
, or ask questions.Most people there are also happy with the HD TV display, standard TV display not so great, probably same for all LCD widescreens, due to the best display at native resolution.
I'm also waiting to buy the monitor but BestBuy Canada only sells the old LVM-37W1 model
and nobody else does Westinghouse here.
At least for my use I see nothing wrong with the BenQ FP241W specially compared to the others 24" PC monitors in that price range.
Right now I have 21" Sony (CRT) monitor, going to 24" LCD I would not get the WOW effect.
There is no question, if people want to buy monitor mainly for HD TV use they should get the 1080p Westy.
I don't think HDMI connection has some kind of pixel maping control.DangerIsGo said:
Using PC the aspect ratio can be controlled by the player software or video card display.
No idea what the Chinese used but sure it can be done.
http://translate.google.com/transla...&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=/language_tools
Dangit! Unless they painted them pictures
No Idea where the 16:11 came from.
Anyway THANKS for all your work and input, very much appreciated, most of us not having the monitor depend on it.
DangerIsGo
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]
That was a guesstimate that I made on the actual image size of my desktop.
waitandsee
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Well, this is really sad news! I am very disappointed with BENQ!
What MORON engineer over at Benq decided to implant an interpolation circuit in the monitor WITHOUT giving the user a CHOICE in the firmware and onscreen menu as to whether they want to stretch or not stretch the picture!!!
If BENQ doesn't change this in their firmware for the upcoming FP241WZ USA release, then this monitor is useless and they lied about "OH WATCH A 1080p signal the way its supposed to be"!!! That's HOW they marketed it the entire time! That's WHY everyone was so excited about this monitor! Sure you can use the NVIDIA drivers to do it, but that defeats the point of all the connection options you're paying for!! Seriously, making excuses for this HUGE oversight is just lame!
The HDMI connector is nice but you can do the same with the DVI connector!! And HDMI 1.3 only increases the bandwidth to dual link (YOU CAN BUY A DVI DUAL LINK CABLE w/the same bandwidth!!!) and this monitor doesn't need it. DangerIsGo is right! There's no audio here that needs this HDMI crap! And HDCP won't even be useful for several years!! Better off using a CRT with that Playstation 3!
Total B.S. and HYPE from a bunch of MORONS at BENQ, who if they don't address the 1:1 issue, then forget about the FP241WZ... BFI will probably be another losing proposition as well! Insert some blank frames in their asses for getting people to pay for connectors that are WORTHLESS and technology that isn't even useful because they simply flat out lied!
Pathetic waste of a potentially good 24" LCD monitor.
That's okay because I can do 1080p and BILLIONS of colors on my CRT right now so I'll have to wait for a real company to make a REAL 1080p LCD without this interpolation b.s
-WaitAndSee
What MORON engineer over at Benq decided to implant an interpolation circuit in the monitor WITHOUT giving the user a CHOICE in the firmware and onscreen menu as to whether they want to stretch or not stretch the picture!!!
If BENQ doesn't change this in their firmware for the upcoming FP241WZ USA release, then this monitor is useless and they lied about "OH WATCH A 1080p signal the way its supposed to be"!!! That's HOW they marketed it the entire time! That's WHY everyone was so excited about this monitor! Sure you can use the NVIDIA drivers to do it, but that defeats the point of all the connection options you're paying for!! Seriously, making excuses for this HUGE oversight is just lame!
The HDMI connector is nice but you can do the same with the DVI connector!! And HDMI 1.3 only increases the bandwidth to dual link (YOU CAN BUY A DVI DUAL LINK CABLE w/the same bandwidth!!!) and this monitor doesn't need it. DangerIsGo is right! There's no audio here that needs this HDMI crap! And HDCP won't even be useful for several years!! Better off using a CRT with that Playstation 3!
Total B.S. and HYPE from a bunch of MORONS at BENQ, who if they don't address the 1:1 issue, then forget about the FP241WZ... BFI will probably be another losing proposition as well! Insert some blank frames in their asses for getting people to pay for connectors that are WORTHLESS and technology that isn't even useful because they simply flat out lied!
Pathetic waste of a potentially good 24" LCD monitor.
That's okay because I can do 1080p and BILLIONS of colors on my CRT right now so I'll have to wait for a real company to make a REAL 1080p LCD without this interpolation b.s
-WaitAndSee
I bought one.
I don't really care for HDMI. I consider it a bonus. I was already looking for a 24" monitor to use for my PC that will give me the extra space I need to work on photos and illustrations and has the capability of displaying correct colors. I won't be moving my monitor around so my PC will always be nearby if I wanted those black bars in movies.
When a 24" monitor comes out with 1:1 pixel mapping, I could sell this and get another one, but no one knows when a 24" monitor will have that capability. I suggest, if you could wait, then wait. If you need one now, don't hesitate to get one.
Thanks for everyone who helped me make my choice.
I don't really care for HDMI. I consider it a bonus. I was already looking for a 24" monitor to use for my PC that will give me the extra space I need to work on photos and illustrations and has the capability of displaying correct colors. I won't be moving my monitor around so my PC will always be nearby if I wanted those black bars in movies.
When a 24" monitor comes out with 1:1 pixel mapping, I could sell this and get another one, but no one knows when a 24" monitor will have that capability. I suggest, if you could wait, then wait. If you need one now, don't hesitate to get one.
Thanks for everyone who helped me make my choice.
The lack of 1:1 mapping bothers me too. I think I'll be considering a Westinghouse 1080P 37" instead, for a similar price. Couple hundred more, but more useful for movies, PS3, and computer when I need it. But man... 37". huge for a desktop.waitandsee said:
Look I really don't wont to argue. If we can't agree on simple fact that it is listed as PC and not TV monitor we would be here for ever, so you won. No further reply by me on this one.kornkob said:
On top I was clearly talking about my own use and preferences. Hope you don't want to take that away.
If some people "want it for more than just a monitor", who knows at least one owner reported overheating so maybe it can be used as toaster oven
About me missing the point! I don't think so! I clearly know what are you trying to say, just can't find any documentation it is done as simple as you say. It doesn't mean you're not right, just please provide some links on this done by experts in the field. I'm eager to learn.kornkob said:
What I know 1080i is NOT NATIVE for ANY LCD monitor, ALL LCD monitors use progressive scan.
Therefore deinterlacing needs to be done. It defeats your first argument right there.
Quote from Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing
"Deinterlacing is the process of converting interlaced video (a sequence of fields) into a non-interlaced form (a sequence of frames). This is a fundamentally impossible process that must always produce some image degradation, since it ideally requires "temporal interpolation" which involves guessing the movement of every object in the image and applying motion correction to every object."
Here interesting article about deinterlacing:
http://www.100fps.com/
Now there is not much real 1080p source and on top we all know 1920:1080 is NOT BenQ FP241W "Native Resolution" This article at Wikipedia suggest any resolution but native needs interpolation.
Mind you Wikipedia is not always right but there are tons of similar articles at internet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_resolution
Now if you're right and only 60 lines on top and bottom can be added without interpolation, I say awesome, but in that case it should apply to any other NON native resolution.
For example the 4:3 aspect ratio would only need to add the proper number off black lines without
interpolation..
Of course it's as simple as kornkob described. There is nothing more simple than 1:1 mapping. You don't believe this, then why 1 year old BenQ FP231W has this 1:1 mapping. Answer, because there is nothing easier than not stretching. Why BenQ removed this from all its new LCD is unknown and we could only speculate.Heinz68 said:
Sure, this is always going to happen when converting from interlaced to progressive, and happens not only in LCD monitors but also all LCD TVs, plasma TVs etc. I've never seen it referred to as "temporal interpolation", but I guess the term could be applied since it is having to make up pixels to fill in the gaps. They have some pretty good algorithms for deinterlacing these days. ...but this process is nowhere near as damaging to the picture as the interpolation required what stretching the picture from 1080 to 1200.Heinz68 said:
Read my previous post on this subject. It doesnt matter the native resolution of the FP241W is 1920x1200, they could easily have displayed the 1920x1080 pixel from 1080i/1080p inside the 1920x1200 without the need for stretching the picture. There could easily have been a 1:1 pixel mapping if they were taking 1080p/1080i seriously. It is that easy. They could have done it if they wanted to.
1080p was the hot thing at the consumer electronics shows this year so is only going to become more popular. Today we have available HD DVD players, Blu Ray players, PCs, and soon the PS3, all capable of 1920x1200.
Yes, true. Its of most benefit for 1080i/1080p since this monitor closely matches this, but sure, the same couple be applied to other resolutions. 720x480 would look like a postage stamp in the middle of the monitor with huge black bars on the top/bottom/left/right, but they absolutely could have provide that if they wanted to.Heinz68 said:
PsycoGeek
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paviko said:It doesn't mention about 1:1 scaling, but actually it says that everything will be stretch to 1920x1200 !!!!!!!!!!!
"The best possible picture for your FP241WZ is achieved with a resolution of 1920 x 1200. This is called Native Resolution or maximal resolution that is, the clearest picture. Lower resolutions are displayed on a full screen through an interpolation circuit."
Just great ...
Every LCD does that anyway when you drop the resolution from it's native to anything less. Nothing new there for ANY lcd, past or present...
DangerIsGo
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Maybe too big...becuase you'd you have to sit back to view the whole screen.
Ok guys, I mean "paviko" and "kornkob"paviko said:
I'm not here to argue and I can read what you say, all I asked for was some technical documentation describing that when 1:1 pixel mapping is done on LCD monitor with not same native resolution, interpolation is not needed.
I was not able to Google it, otherwise believe me I would have included the link myself.
I provided some links that say otherwise and even BenQ manual confirms that. Now the rest is up to you and no need to argue.
No idea why last model had 1:1 pixel mapping and this one doesn't, but the question doesn't explain anything.
Question is ? Why bother with interpolation for example: source 1920:1080, monitor native 1920:1200, if much more simple and therefore most likely cheaper solution is 1:1 pixel maping without interpolation.
DeftonesXP
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Answer : probably one of the following reason, Marketing or Cost :
1- marketing decided that it was not useful for the average user
2- the chip with 1:1 is more expensive
Trust me, I've seen some crazy things being done by a marketing dept...
1- marketing decided that it was not useful for the average user
2- the chip with 1:1 is more expensive
Trust me, I've seen some crazy things being done by a marketing dept...
Rayman1968
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Ok, I just got one of these monitors and hooked it up. I bought it strictly for PC use (mainly gaming).
So far, I hate it. I'm playing Day of Defeat:Source and Counter-Strike:Source. When ever I move the mouse the picture gets real blurry. Even though I'll be getting over 100 FPS, moving the mouse causes the picture to turn into this blurry mess that hurts my eyes.
Is there some setting or something I need to change? I'm playing at the native 19200 x 1200 resolution. And BF2 won't even launch. It just kicks me back to desktop. Why is that?
System specs:
AMD FX-53
Asus A8N SLI Premium
2 x 7800GTX in SLI
2 gigs (2 x 1gig) OCZ Platinum PC3200
Thanks for any help. Right now I really feel like I've wasted almost $900.
So far, I hate it. I'm playing Day of Defeat:Source and Counter-Strike:Source. When ever I move the mouse the picture gets real blurry. Even though I'll be getting over 100 FPS, moving the mouse causes the picture to turn into this blurry mess that hurts my eyes.
Is there some setting or something I need to change? I'm playing at the native 19200 x 1200 resolution. And BF2 won't even launch. It just kicks me back to desktop. Why is that?
System specs:
AMD FX-53
Asus A8N SLI Premium
2 x 7800GTX in SLI
2 gigs (2 x 1gig) OCZ Platinum PC3200
Thanks for any help. Right now I really feel like I've wasted almost $900.
Rayman1968
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Also, I cannot access the color settings. I'm using Dynamic mode, and DVI-D as the input. I can see the color settings in the menu, but it is grayed out and I can't access it.
Why is this?
Why is this?
DangerIsGo
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I got it and I love it. have absolutely no complaints except for the whole stretching thing.
Rayman1968
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Any idea as to why I can't access the color settings?
Check the cable connection, try other cable if you have.Rayman1968 said:
Did you install the monitor drivers (check manual).
Check in Device Manager the monitor properties,
Update your video card drivers.
Read manual about color setting.
If all fails e-mail BenQ support.
Guys with the same monitor, do you have similar problem??
For me is hard to advice without having the monitor.
DeftonesXP
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damp81 said:
Look at this thread in pages 14 to 20... betweek 21 till 30ish it's ppl whining about stretching and HDMI...
You can also search for post from DangerIsGo, he posted numerous screenshots and info about it
thanks Danger !!