Off the Shelf NAS or NAS PC

[mda]

Hello all,

Deciding between an off the shelf NAS or a purpose built NAS/Server, mainly for backup purposes. Also, if the hardware/OS permits, I would maybe like to keep stuff like the Plex server on this. Maybe can also triple as an HTPC as well. Am just looking for value, since I'm building/buying something new.

Primary purpose is still backup.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

I am in need of a network backup solution. Something that can saturate a gigabit LAN port. If the machine can double as a Plex server / HTPC then why not? I might as well position this machine beside the TV.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

Looking to spend 1000-1500$. I figured this amount will be right, considering this is the amount I'd be spending for a Synology 4 Bay with 4 disks anyway.

I don't live in the USA but prices will be about 10-20% more expensive than Amazon prices. Please use the 1500$ limit as a guide because I won't be strict with this, but would like to stay within reasonable limits of 1500.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

Either: OTS NAS (I was looking at the Synology 415) or a purpose built PC.
CPU, MB, RAM, PSU, Case, HDDs.

I have quite a few computers to backup (2 Desktops, 2-3 Laptops), so I may need to go 2x or 4x 3-4TB HDD route.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

I have 2 old 2TB Seagate 5400.xx NAS drives from an old DLink DNS-320 that can now barely do 10MB/s sequential -- fault of the NAS rather than the hard drives. I'd like to reuse these if possible but is not really necessary. If these will hold back the NAS by a lot then I guess I'm better off buying new.

6) Will you be overclocking?

No. The lower power consumption, the better -- all w/o compromising performance.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?

If PC and can triple as an HTPC, then it's 1920x1080.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

Was originally planning to replace my 6870CFs for a 960 or a 970, but I think this takes precedence. ASAP.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.

I'd like some kind of RAID, unless the recommendation is to go with a Linux RAID of some sort. SATA2 and USB 3.0 are a given nowadays I guess.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

I have spare unused licenses of W7 Pro. I can also probably go out and buy a copy of Windows Home Server if needed. Can do Linux/FreeNAS too, although I'm not familiar with them.

Thanks!

 

[Dangman]

What online computer hardware stores were you planning on buying from? Don't worry about it being foreign. Google Chrome automatically translates sites.

 

[mda]

Here and here are pretty good indicators of the selection of items we have here. These are 2 actual physical stores posting their wares on an ebay-type website, but these are mostly in english so there shouldn't be much problems translating.

It may be quite a handful and not so well organized so I don't really expect you guys to take a good look at these sites. But thank you anyway! =)

Note: $1 = 45 approx in local currency.

Upon additional research, I may be gravitating towards a NAS build with the ff specs:

1. Repurpose i5 2400, H67, 8GB of RAM for the NAS (OS undecided) + underclock/volt the i5. Purchase new i5 CPU/MB/RAM for secondary gaming machine.

Reason for this: not sure how well a Celeron or a Pentium will do, so I'm thinking that if I'm going to buy a new i3, I might as well just get a new i5 for less than 50$ difference.

2. Add 2x ST4000DM000 and 2x Green Drives for 6TB worth of RAID1 (motherboard allows me 2 more SATA slots for 3rd pair of drives)

3. Fractal Node 304/804 Case for SFF headless NAS

4. X650 PSU? I've had great experiences with our local Seasonic distributor with regards to RMA. May want to use them again.

5. I have a Sine Wave UPS ready

Additional Question: What is a recommended OS for this sort of purpose nowadays? FreeNAS seems to make for a good backup and plex server but probably won't cut it as an HTPC. No games on the HTPC if ever. Just pictures and video if ever. I'm thinking onboard will do already.

Once again, thanks!

 

[Dangman]

For HTPC and file serving duties, a Pentium or a Core i3 will do just fine. You really don't have to go with i5 unless it's for a gaming PC. Nor will underclocking and/or undervolting the i5 a real good idea since that lowers the overall performance of the system and doesn't actually save you enough power to be worth the hassle.

How often is that secondary gaming PC used?

It's not a good idea to use RAID 1 with that much storage. You're looking at software RAID 5 at a minimum but software RAID 6 is preferable. Nor is it really a good idea to get the Green drives either due to their unsuitability for RAID.

Unless your existing H67 motherboard is mITX (unlikely since you mentioned Crossfire), that rules out the Node 304 case. Now whether or not the Node 804 is a choice depends on what motherboard do you have. So what Gigabyte H67 mobo do you have?

As for the PSU, you'll be fine with a solid 450W or 550W PSU.

As for OS, in order to do the server and HTPC duties together, that leaves you with two main options (with a few sub-options). One paid and one free. Obviously try the free first.

Free:
Linux + ZFS On Linux or SnapRAID + Kodi or Plex Media Player

Paid:
Windows 8 + Storage Spaces or SnapRAID + Kodi or Plex Media Player

 

[mda]

The primary PC is used when I am at home.

The secondary is used sporadically during the week and sees most action on weekends.

As such, it doesn't have to be ultra high end but decent enough to run current stuff.

I'm sure the 2400 is more than enough for today's games, but any upgrade for the gaming rigs for relatively minimal increase is good enough.

Thanks for the vouch on the Pentium and i3s. Will consider them come time to crunch out the final cost figures.

I have this mATX Gigabyte H67 so I guess I'm ruling out the 304. The 804 should be good.

Is RAID5/6 still recommended nowadays? I'm no RAID expert, but I see a lot of articles online saying that RAID5 domino failures happen more often in the process of restoring a failed drive.

The 4TB Seagates are fine I guess? Backblaze is not really a reliable source but better than no source at all (?)

I can save cash on the PSU by going Seasonic G550 (save $25). Not sure I want to go lower than this though.

Edit: I'm looking into a W8 server since this can pool drives and as NTFS has a little more data checking/data corruption self heal than ZFS which is the standards file system for many Linux NAS OSs (or am I understanding this wrong?). Not sure how this would work when the OS/GPT drive fails though. How is the pool recovered in this case?

 

[redrage]

If not using as an HTPC: Synology DS415+ any 4 bay with the + pretty much. (plus adds a bit more power for small fee)

Has backup and media servers you want.

Newegg has the 415+ at about $600
Newegg has WD Red 4TB at about $170 each

well under your $1500 without any coupons or rebates.

Use the old drives as a emergency backup.. you know those things that your wife would kill you if you lost.. wedding/baby pictures and stuff (a dropbox type of service is also good for this)

 

[asintado08]

Hello fellow Pinoy.

How many Plex streams are you planning to run at the same time? This is crucial for your processor choice. I agree with Dangman, use your old quad core as your main PC. It will be able to run the new games. Just get a new video card. For file sharing, pentium or i3 is enough.

If you are not familiar with Linux, go with Windows + Snapraid + DrivePool. Freenas is always a good choice for Linux.

You can get the mobo/cpu/ram/psu/case at under 20k PHP or 450$. Use the remaining money to purchase HDDs.

Fractal is waste of money. Look for the NZXT Source 210 Elite.

Use your old drives in a Xpenology VMware.

If I will do this with your budget, I go with supermicro boards for IPMI.

 

[mda]

If not using as an HTPC: Synology DS415+ any 4 bay with the + pretty much. (plus adds a bit more power for small fee)

Has backup and media servers you want.

Newegg has the 415+ at about $600
Newegg has WD Red 4TB at about $170 each

well under your $1500 without any coupons or rebates.

Use the old drives as a emergency backup.. you know those things that your wife would kill you if you lost.. wedding/baby pictures and stuff (a dropbox type of service is also good for this)

I was actually looking at getting the 415+ with a pair of 4TB WD Reds at the moment.

Main reason for this is that it supports plex streams up to maybe 720p reliably and comes with the backup tools I need for backing up family PCs/Laptops/Phones easily.

I have limited experience with Centos and Ubuntu, but don't believe these have the ease of backup that Synology does. I don't want to have to backup manually backup each and everyone's phones etc so good app support seems to be nice.

Hello fellow Pinoy.

How many Plex streams are you planning to run at the same time? This is crucial for your processor choice. I agree with Dangman, use your old quad core as your main PC. It will be able to run the new games. Just get a new video card. For file sharing, pentium or i3 is enough.

If you are not familiar with Linux, go with Windows + Snapraid + DrivePool. Freenas is always a good choice for Linux.

You can get the mobo/cpu/ram/psu/case at under 20k PHP or 450$. Use the remaining money to purchase HDDs.

Fractal is waste of money. Look for the NZXT Source 210 Elite.

Use your old drives in a Xpenology VMware.

If I will do this with your budget, I go with supermicro boards for IPMI.

Good day too sir! Hehe. Was also weighing the costs of building a box, but it seems that I am slightly leaning towards a prebuilt due to the good app support for backup on phones and on the PC.

To answer your questions, current use sees maybe 2 720p streams at most. I think the Synology 415+ can handle this one.

If building my own, I was considering the Fractal primarily due to the footprint/size. I don't really have a good place to put a midtower at this point.

I have considered Xpenology but don't have the experience running a VM nor do I want to play around with things that can potentially lose me my backup. I can perhaps explore this for my 2nd NAS box when I have more time and need an expansion.

WRT to my old NAS (DLink DNS320), I may just repurpose this to backup whatever backup I end up buying/building.

As to Supermicro -- where can you find these cheap/locally? Tried calling the distributor but a Xeon Haswell (i3 equivalent), board and 16GB ECC RAM for ZFS/FreeNAS will set me back about PHP 40k or almost 900$ alone.

 

[asintado08]

As to Supermicro -- where can you find these cheap/locally? Tried calling the distributor but a Xeon Haswell (i3 equivalent), board and 16GB ECC RAM for ZFS/FreeNAS will set me back about PHP 40k or almost 900$ alone.

Get it from the US. Use JAC or pobox to forward it to PH.

Good choice on the Synology. You should be okay with it. I also want to go with Synology but my family is soo demanding with their streams and I don't have the time to do their requests every week. With a esxi box, you can almost automate everything.

 

[redrage]

I was actually looking at getting the 415+ with a pair of 4TB WD Reds at the moment.

Main reason for this is that it supports plex streams up to maybe 720p reliably and comes with the backup tools I need for backing up family PCs/Laptops/Phones easily.

I have limited experience with Centos and Ubuntu, but don't believe these have the ease of backup that Synology does. I don't want to have to backup manually backup each and everyone's phones etc so good app support seems to be nice.

I can't speak for plex, I run all my media through SMB shares, works on my XBox and my Patriot box just fine and i never really liked any of the media servers *much*. over gigabit streaming 1080p has never been an issue with 2 TVs and another pc at the same time.

Synology's apps are pretty good. the *station (cloud,photo,video,etc) are all pretty good but require you open up your nas to the net if you want to use them off of your network. (which generally not a good idea)

you can do pretty much everything you need with out knowing any Linux from their web interface. and there is a 3rd party app site (synocommunity.com) where you can get more 'easy' to use apps. Synology's community forum is pretty decent too. make sure you check it before you decide.

 

[redrage]

I would also suggest at least 3 drives.. but two will work. I would also use SHR (synology hybrid raid) makes things easier.. though may not be the best.

 

[mda]

I can't speak for plex, I run all my media through SMB shares, works on my XBox and my Patriot box just fine and i never really liked any of the media servers *much*. over gigabit streaming 1080p has never been an issue with 2 TVs and another pc at the same time.

Synology's apps are pretty good. the *station (cloud,photo,video,etc) are all pretty good but require you open up your nas to the net if you want to use them off of your network. (which generally not a good idea)

you can do pretty much everything you need with out knowing any Linux from their web interface. and there is a 3rd party app site (synocommunity.com) where you can get more 'easy' to use apps. Synology's community forum is pretty decent too. make sure you check it before you decide.

Yeah, I don't intend to open up the NAS to the net except maybe for Transmission. Synolocker alone is a good reason why. I just need something that will automatically backup phones etc at least when everyone is home and on our local wifi.

For media over SMB shares alone, I think the Synology will suffice, since the 415+'s CPU is fast enough to saturate the gigabit NIC on that thing.

Too bad about our old DLink. Slow as hell CPU could only do 20MB/s at best. I think updating the firmware/software brought transfer speeds down to 10MB/s. When I get a new box and backup the data on it, I may just try to flash the old firmware back to see if I can eke out some more performance to make for a workable 3rd backup location.

Get it from the US. Use JAC or pobox to forward it to PH.

Good choice on the Synology. You should be okay with it. I also want to go with Synology but my family is soo demanding with their streams and I don't have the time to do their requests every week. With a esxi box, you can almost automate everything.

Thanks. Will look into EXSI this as well. Are you using Supermicro for your Xpenology server?

My wallet and the builder in me says I should build a box for this instead, but my mind says I should start experimenting when I have at least one stable backup location.

I would also suggest at least 3 drives.. but two will work. I would also use SHR (synology hybrid raid) makes things easier.. though may not be the best.

Going for 2 drives in RAID1 at the moment, and may probably add another 2 more also in RAID1 next time. I'm not too keen on RAID 5/6 due to rebuilding horrors.

It is either 4x 4TB in one go, or 2x 4TB and GTX 970. I am currently considering the latter

 

[redrage]

Yeah, I don't intend to open up the NAS to the net except maybe for Transmission. Synolocker alone is a good reason why. I just need something that will automatically backup phones etc at least when everyone is home and on our local wifi.

For media over SMB shares alone, I think the Synology will suffice, since the 415+'s CPU is fast enough to saturate the gigabit NIC on that thing.

Too bad about our old DLink. Slow as hell CPU could only do 20MB/s at best. I think updating the firmware/software brought transfer speeds down to 10MB/s. When I get a new box and backup the data on it, I may just try to flash the old firmware back to see if I can eke out some more performance to make for a workable 3rd backup location.

...


Going for 2 drives in RAID1 at the moment, and may probably add another 2 more also in RAID1 next time. I'm not too keen on RAID 5/6 due to rebuilding horrors.

It is either 4x 4TB in one go, or 2x 4TB and GTX 970. I am currently considering the latter

Yeah my 412+ does it good, 415 should do just as well if not better

I havn't had any issues rebuilding in SHR (raid 5 basically). Bad disk out, new disk in, repair done in a couple hours. I'd go 3 disk minimum.. if you are only going to do 2 disk.. might as go with a 2 bay system save a couple hundred. regardless I doubt you'll have issues other than empty bays calling your name

I'm very fond of my 970 but I haven't ran into the ram issue.. yet. I do wish i would've waited to see what the 390 is going to be like though.

 

[asintado08]

Thanks. Will look into EXSI this as well. Are you using Supermicro for your Xpenology server?

My wallet and the builder in me says I should build a box for this instead, but my mind says I should start experimenting when I have at least one stable backup location.

Nope. I'm looking to get one. I have tested the IPMI and it is awesome. I'm looking for a 2011 setup right now.

My current setup is a gigabyte board + second gen intel series. It has esxi. I have pfsense, xpenology and Windows Server + snapraid on that device. I also have a couple of other VMs for homelab.

The good thing about Snapraid is that when you lose two disk on raid 5 not all the data is lost. The only data that is lost is the one that is on failed drives.

 

[Pylor]

I know OP isn't in America, but I'd highly recommend something along these lines over a more expensive appliance:

http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkServer-70A4000HUX-i3-4130-Computer/dp/B00F6EK9J2

Some of your wants go back and forth, which I can understand. One post it seems like you might want an HTPC (which this can be), in other posts you also seem to want something that can handle some PLEX streams. The i3 4130 can probably handle 2 1080p streams or 3 720p steams (you state you'd like 2 720p streams in one of your posts) which shouldn't be an issue.

If you want to shove a decent graphics card into it you'll need to replace to PSU and get a $15 converter for the motherboard power, as it requires a 14 pin in instead of normal ATX pin out. It comes with a bronze 280 watt psu which should be able to handle 6 hard drives easily I'd think, however the rails aren't strong enough to keep my 270x powered up completely.

Another thing is that it doesn't have VT-D support, which isn't a big deal unless you want to shove your graphics card through to a VM in ESXi. It does, however, come with ECC unbuffered/unregistered RAM, and all the linux-raids I see recommend ECC. I know I'll get burned at the stake for saying it, but I've used the intel "fakeraid," as some people call it, for 6 years, and the only time I run into issues is when I update my bios. If you do go this easy route, just make sure to disconnect your drives when doing a bios update. I can't compare it to snapraid or ZFS or any of those solutions, but I get a steady 150MB/s read/write in RAID5 on slow WD red/green drives from 4-7 years ago.

My 2 cents!

 

[Dangman]

Is RAID5/6 still recommended nowadays? I'm no RAID expert, but I see a lot of articles online saying that RAID5 domino failures happen more often in the process of restoring a failed drive.

RAID 6 is recommended these days or some other non-standard form of parity like ZFS, SnapRAID, FlexRAId, unRAID, etc. ZFS's version of RAID 6 is called RAIDZ2.

The 4TB Seagates are fine I guess? Backblaze is not really a reliable source but better than no source at all (?)

Based on available information, yes.

I can save cash on the PSU by going Seasonic G550 (save $25). Not sure I want to go lower than this though.

You'll be fine with that Seasonic.

Edit: I'm looking into a W8 server since this can pool drives and as NTFS has a little more data checking/data corruption self heal than ZFS which is the standards file system for many Linux NAS OSs (or am I understanding this wrong?)

A lot of that is wrong. ZFS' data checking and data corruption self-heal is better than Windows's implementation so far. ZFS is not the standard file system for Linux NASes. But if going Linux, I would still recommend ZFS over the other Linux file systems because of ZFS's RAID engine.

In terms of bang for the buck, DIY is better.
In terms of ease of use, Synology wins hands-down.

I have nothing against either option as there are plenty of situations where one or the other is the best choice.

 

[mda]

In terms of bang for the buck, DIY is better.
In terms of ease of use, Synology wins hands-down.

I have nothing against either option as there are plenty of situations where one or the other is the best choice.

Really torn between the two but I'm leaning towards Synology just for ease of use (i.e. teaching some family members who do not know how to choose between our home wifi and that of our neighbors will be a pain -- It's probably better off if I just download the app and let it be.)

If it were for solely for my own data, I'd probably go DIY.

Thanks for this. All points made on this thread are very valid -- just depends on which aspect I want to focus more on. For my #1 priority/backup for all it may just be the wiser choice to go prebuilt.

 

[asintado08]

^Are you planning to provide streaming to your neighbor? If yes, make sure to do it on a separate VLAN that doesn't have any internet connection.

 

[FnordMan]

Freenas is always a good choice for Linux.

Nitpick alert! FreeNAS is very much so NOT linux. It's based on FreeBSD, there's a big difference there. (ZFS support is a bit different in BSD vs. Linux)

 

[smangular]

RAID 6 is recommended these days or some other non-standard form of parity like ZFS, SnapRAID, FlexRAId, unRAID, etc. ZFS's version of RAID 6 is called RAIDZ2.

A lot of that is wrong. ZFS' data checking and data corruption self-heal is better than Windows's implementation so far. ZFS is not the standard file system for Linux NASes. But if going Linux, I would still recommend ZFS over the other Linux file systems because of ZFS's RAID engine.

+1. ZFS by far is the way to go for data security. I'm running RAID-Z2 ZFS now on my OmniOS/Napp-it Server and it has been rock solid.