OCing the 3000+ Article Discussion

The Clawhammer's typically OC better since they've got more headroom, plus they scale a bit better thanks to the doubled cache.
 
M3at said:
I have the chaintech vnf3 250. I also have 1x80 SATA drive. Could this be the limiting factor in my oc?
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Only if you're letting the HTT bus get out of spec. I assume you've lowered the multiplier for it?
 
Vagrant Zero said:
The Clawhammer's typically OC better since they've got more headroom, plus they scale a bit better thanks to the doubled cache.
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they don't oc better...they don't have more headroom. all signs point to true newcastles oc'ing far better than a clawhammer. newcastles only have the CG core (except for the castrated clawhammers that they pass off as newcastles...those have the C0 core but you can tell if you remove the IHS when you look at the core at how big it is). if you get a mobile clawhammer it will oc almost as high as the newcastle but then you will have a hard time getting it to boot properly in mobos. in addition you can get a 35W mobile newcastle that oc's far better than a regular newcastle and a mobile clawhammer (good luck on getting it to boot properly on your mobo).

Regular ClawHammer reaches about 2.3GHz with good aircooling.
Mobile ClawHammer reaches about 2.4-2.5GHz with good aircooling.
True regular Newcastle (not castrated ClawHammer) reaches about 2.5-2.6GHz with good aircooling

however clawhammer scales better than the newcastle, especially in cache-dependent apps like games (5-10% improvement about when scaled up)
 
From what I've read, the defining factor in how far it will overclock is not whether it's newcastle, mobile, clawhammer etc but whether it has the CO or CG core revision.

Most Desktop clawhammers have the CO and therefore reach lower OC
Most Desktop newcastles are CG and therefore reach higher OC
Most DTR/Mobile Clawhammers are CG and reach higher OC.

CO = ~2.3-2.4
CG = ~2.4-2.6

You can tell if it's a CG core if the model # ends in -AR or -AX

I've heard people talking about castrated clawhammers as newcastles. The thing about that is, AMD hasn't lowered the die size for the newcastles, meaning they have 1mb of cache but half of it is disabled. What that means is if they had a clawhammer with part of it's cache messed up, they can call it a newcastle. So, if they have done that to a clawhammer with a CO revision, this would the the 'castrated clawhammer'. However if they did that with a CG revision clawhammer, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between it and a newcastle. Smart for AMD because it increases their yields.

Thats what I've gotten from reading around a bunch of different forums. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
What about this motherboard ? ABIT "KV8-MAX3" K8T800
Has anyone tried to OC with it?
I was considering this mobo vs the KV8 Pro
Also does it support the pci/agp lock?
 
so by the end of the summer i should be setting this up on my computer, but what kind hsf would u guys recommend, also shouldn't be waiting for the higher end mobile 64's be worth the wait for the higher overclock at less voltages even though the price will be higher.
 
M3at said:
I have the CG core. Maybe it's my board
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no...you are increasing the LDT multi when you should be decreasing it...you said you were running basically at 1GHz HT bus. Now wonder it's unstable.
 
I know it's a self sale working for EPoX but having been instrumental in o/c development of the EP-8KDA3+ we can state we are very pleased with it's overclocking ability both in terms of FSB and overall overclock but mostly the ability to fully manipulate memory to HTT ratio and HTT multiplier alongside CPU ratio - it is certainly a very flexible package

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Whilst appreciating the other K8T800Pro and NF3 250GB mainboards - I am certainly pleased with our development here. I always run at 4x HTT with all of these clocks.
 
DaveX said:
no...you are increasing the LDT multi when you should be decreasing it...you said you were running basically at 1GHz HT bus. Now wonder it's unstable.
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No, I tried that and set everything else to default to see if there would be a performance increase and there wasn't so now it's back to default values.

I've tried everything. I've set the LDT to 1,2,3 and 4. I've set the ram to 166 and have only been able to get the fsb to go as high as 225 no matter what voltages I push through the core as well as the vdimm.

I'm running at stock settings excpet the fsb is now at 220 on a 1:1 ratio. I'm asuming my chip has hit its wall.
 
EPoX Tech UK said:
I know it's a self sale working for EPoX but having been instrumental in o/c development of the EP-8KDA3+ we can state we are very pleased with it's overclocking ability both in terms of FSB and overall overclock but mostly the ability to fully manipulate memory to HTT ratio and HTT multiplier alongside CPU ratio - it is certainly a very flexible package

Whilst appreciating the other K8T800Pro and NF3 250GB mainboards - I am certainly pleased with our development here. I always run at 4x HTT with all of these clocks.
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I sure hope the baby brother, the 8KDA3J is just as strong/stable an overclocker because thats what I just ordered after days and days of debate (between it and the MSI K8N Neo board).
 
epox tech uk representative, i am curious what kind of ram you were using when you achieved that OC (2609MHz)? That seems to be a big issue with these Athlon 64 setups, and knowing what RAM can achieve this would be really good to know...
 
M3at said:
No, I tried that and set everything else to default to see if there would be a performance increase and there wasn't so now it's back to default values.

I've tried everything. I've set the LDT to 1,2,3 and 4. I've set the ram to 166 and have only been able to get the fsb to go as high as 225 no matter what voltages I push through the core as well as the vdimm.

I'm running at stock settings excpet the fsb is now at 220 on a 1:1 ratio. I'm asuming my chip has hit its wall.
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Try this. Set your memory to 133, your chip multiplier to 6, your HT multiplier to 3, and your FSB to 250. Your chip will be underclocked by 500 MHz. If it won't boot into Windows stable like that, then indeed your chip is bum.
 
The DarkBlade said:
Try this. Set your memory to 133, your chip multiplier to 6, your HT multiplier to 3, and your FSB to 250. Your chip will be underclocked by 500 MHz. If it won't boot into Windows stable like that, then indeed your chip is bum.
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ahh..success. I got the cpu overclock to 230, however I had to have the ram set at 133 and the HTT multiplier at 3. If I set the ram at anything higher than 133, the system would hang. I noticed the performance wasn't as good as it is at 2.2 with the HTT mult at 4 and the ram at a 1:1 ratio or ddr440. So I'm going to leave it for now until I can test it with other ram.
 
M3at said:
ahh..success. I got the cpu overclock to 230, however I had to have the ram set at 133 and the HTT multiplier at 3. If I set the ram at anything higher than 133, the system would hang. I noticed the performance wasn't as good as it is at 2.2 with the HTT mult at 4 and the ram at a 1:1 ratio or ddr440. So I'm going to leave it for now until I can test it with other ram.
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With a good implementation of NF3 250 you should easily be able to run at 4x HTT at 300MHz (1200MHz) with a VDD of approximatley 1.65 - 1.7v. You would onviously then need to run a RAM speed of 166MHz or slower unless you had been gifted by the god of Samsung!
 
tristam said:
epox tech uk representative, i am curious what kind of ram you were using when you achieved that OC (2609MHz)? That seems to be a big issue with these Athlon 64 setups, and knowing what RAM can achieve this would be really good to know...
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Using Samsung TCCC's at 166Mhz (i.e. runninf 217MHz). On the 274HTT the sammy's are running 228MHz.
 
Surly said:
I sure hope the baby brother, the 8KDA3J is just as strong/stable an overclocker because thats what I just ordered after days and days of debate (between it and the MSI K8N Neo board).
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The EP-8KDA3J is exactly the same PCB less the Silicon image 3114 IC, so the overclocking prowess is every bit as impressive of that of the 8KDA3+.
 
EPoX Tech UK said:
The EP-8KDA3J is exactly the same PCB less the Silicon image 3114 IC, so the overclocking prowess is every bit as impressive of that of the 8KDA3+.
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And minus 4 sata ports. Also i've heard the 8Kda3j DOES have raid array, and I'm still unsure about that.So does it?
 
toenexx said:
And minus 4 sata ports. Also i've heard the 8Kda3j DOES have raid array, and I'm still unsure about that.So does it?
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Minus the sil3114 is minus 4 SATA ports!!!!

There is stil both PATA and SATA RAID via the NF3 250GB itself..........
 
EPoX Tech UK said:
Minus the sil3114 is minus 4 SATA ports!!!!

There is stil both PATA and SATA RAID via the NF3 250GB itself..........
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Haha, i guess sil3114 is the fancy way of putting it... DAMN BRITS! :D
 
I just put together a 2800+ A64 and ABIT KV8Pro combo with OCZ DDR 500 ram. The only problem I have is my 9800nonpro card will crash and cause the vpu recovery to kick in and prompt me stating the vpu has failed and I need to reboot. This happens when I up the fsb past 215mhz.

I have managed to have it run at over 260mhz (@2340mhz) but invariably I will get the vpu crash screen. However, I can run Prime95 and Sandra without cpu failure.

Anyone have an idea how to keep the video card from crashing? I know some of these boards' locks are broken, but when I bump the fsb up to 215 and run the agp/pci at "fixed" guruOC shows the agp as around 100 and pci as around 50. This leads me to believe the locks are working (that and the fact that the machines can boot into windows at fsb over 250mhz.)

Right now my BIOS is set to:
225mhz fsb
agp/pci "fixed"
multi "9" (stock for 2800+)
AGP voltage at 2.8
cpu voltage at 1.575
ram timings are very loose (will have to get exact numbers when I get home)
LTD is set to 1ghz

Anyone have any clues why the agp would be flaking out?


phas3d
 
Perhaps you are using a BIOS that doesn't have the full fix for AGP/PCI lock implemented as Kyle documented - they should lock at 66/33 ; not 100/50
 
So is this BIOS for the kv8 pro avail somewhere?

I know it says it's an unreleased beta, but it's obvious some have it... Where is it? My board is arriving today!!!! :)

Kyle, can you share that bios??
 
A guy on the Abit forums stated that at 215mhz fsb, if GuruOC is seeing the agp/pci at 100/50 then the locks are working. Im getting confused. I have tried v13 through v15 of the Bios for this board, but in all of them the agp will freak out and crash at above 215mhz fsb. So, is my board fubar? Rma time?

phas3d
 
Your declaration of non-comment is still a comment. :)

Anyone else have any clues? Is there another Bios out there to try? Perhaps a beta?
Let me know. I like this board besides the fact stated.

phas3d
 
shaotai said:
So is this BIOS for the kv8 pro avail somewhere?

I know it says it's an unreleased beta, but it's obvious some have it... Where is it? My board is arriving today!!!! :)

Kyle, can you share that bios??
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I keep an agreement not to do that, I am sure you can understand. That said, the BIOS is supposed to be out this week. I got confirmation of that Monday.
 
Fair enough...

Glad the bios will be out soon.. that's a good sign...

To Phas3d, it's definetly not working, if agp is up to 100.. :eek: it's supposed to stay at 33/66!!!
 
Epox Tech:

Have you tried a mobile or DTR in the EP-8KDA3? Considering using one to replace the MSI but the only report I have seen says it wont post. Any info would be great.
 
To Phas3d, it's definetly not working, if agp is up to 100.. it's supposed to stay at 33/66!!!
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yeah, that's what I thought. :(


Looking forward to the new BIOS this week then. Hope I can lock this board, because I think I got a good proc.I got over 21k in 3dmark01se with a 9800nonpro. That's more than I ever got on my IC7 and 2.4c at 3.3ghz or 3.6ghz.


phas3d
 
infinity9 said:
Epox Tech:

Have you tried a mobile or DTR in the EP-8KDA3? Considering using one to replace the MSI but the only report I have seen says it wont post. Any info would be great.
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I've used DTR clawhammer 2800+ with great success but finding best OC's with desktop pure CG's at 2.6GHz +
 
Say I am not new to overclocking but never made the jump to Water-cooling. So If I was to attempt this setup the added cost of water-cooling is $286+ if I add that to the cost of the CPU I could go with a 3500+ retail on a 939 board. Performance wise it would also be guaranteed to reach the higher clock settings than the 3000+. Am I missing something? This doesn't seem cost affective then if you are going to get a whole new system. It seems like you would just be doing it to say you “did” and not to save money.

Newegg has
Exos system and all the necessary water blocks for $285.97 plus shipping. And you would still need to buy an adapter for 12 bucks from koolance.

Amd64 3000+ $211 + cooling286 + fan and heatsink 30= $527
Amd64 3500+ (939) retail = $499
:confused:
 
Might just want to get a slk-948U w/ good 92mm fan if you want to oc...that will beat out an EXOS by far. Or just buy the w/c parts for your own custom setup...will outperform EXOS by far and be much cheaper too. Try visiting Pro Forums or OCForums W/C section...will get you acquainted with w/c.

Socket 939 A64 3500+ w/ mobo is just too expensive. You can get similar performance with a Socket 754 setup. Not to mention Socket 939 mobos are only beginning to appear and are not mature yet.
 
I will look into the issue of DTR's and mobiles - it is merely a string recognition thing - easily sorted guys! The PWM of all our K8T800, NF3 150 (OEM) and NF3 250 boards can handle them easily so just a BIOS update to cure it - I'm on the case............
 
I'm strongly leaning toward the 8kda3j with a 2800+ right now ... has to be cheap :)
My only hesitance is the vdimm... 2.8 is a bit low for my BH-5, and I noticed that the KV8 pro is also only 2.8 in the bios but aparently uGuru will let you adjust it to 3.2?
 
Anyone of you audio users? I ask as Via has been known to cause audio pops and clicks (drivers) for pro use. Not soundblaster users, but users who's sound cards usally cost more than the CPU.

I posted my own thread today trying to get some anwsers.

Thanks

my thread....

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=768984
 
While I can manage 278 x 9, I have to back down to 265 for Prime95 stability. At 278 x 9 it ran 20 successful 3DMark loops.
 
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