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nvidia surround?

Tamlin_WSGF said:
Hehehe... Don't say woodenscrews. I just choked on my coffee supressing a laughter. :p

it still makes me think about that picture with "Grillforce Thermi - Now with wooden screws". LOL!



AMD has actually this time delivered every time as promised. They said that it wouldn't initially be supported and said when it would be supported. Crossfire support for 5970 came with launch, while crossfire support for dual cards had ETA in January, but they released the 9.12 hotfix as a bonus.
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The delay didn't make those impulse 5870/5850 CF buyers happy though. I would have been in the same boat. I would have gotten 2 5870 to CF since I prefer buying the faster single GPU card to multi-card game on.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
He's implementing tweaks for surround settings?
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He has for SLI. It only makes sense he will for Surround. I wasn't implying those settings will be released with his current updated version. Only that once released, I expect him to offer choices for surround tweaking.
 
Kowan said:
The delay didn't make those impulse 5870/5850 CF buyers happy though. I would have been in the same boat. I would have gotten 2 5870 to CF since I prefer buying the faster single GPU card to multi-card game on.
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No, but they did deliver every time as promised. That was a good thing, even though many wanted features like bezel management and such to come out of the box (especially since they had it ready as shown on the launch in Linux). But, instead of promising and delaying, they said it will not come until later.

Eyefinity wasn't launched as crossfire ready and was not launched as support for bezel management. AMD was clear that this is not supported yet, but it will come in future driver releases.

Kowan said:
He has for SLI. It only makes sense he will for Surround. I wasn't implying those settings will be released with his current updated version. Only that once released, I expect him to offer choices for surround tweaking.
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So there is nothing concrete planned? Any links were he states he considers to offer choices for surround tweaking? Its newsworthy in our forum if you have. :)
 
Thankfully I have nothing invested in either multi-monitor camp. I'm waitng and hoping support from both increases the ingame settings to take advantage of the features.
 
Kowan said:
Thankfully I have nothing invested in either multi-monitor camp. I'm waitng and hoping support from both increases the ingame settings to take advantage of the features.
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+1 about the ingame support! Whats really needed, is support so that the HUD is on the center screen especially. There is hacks for such, but having ingame support would be great! :D
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
So there is nothing concrete planned? Any links were he states he considers to offer choices for surround tweaking? Its newsworthy in our forum if you have. :)
Click to expand...
Sorry no link to Surround being mentioned by him. It uses a hybrid mode of SLI according to nVidia, so he will have to wait for drivers, (I know Unwinder doesn't recieve nVidia support) so not sure if he gets access to beta drivers to work on his build or not.
 
necrophile said:
Does that sound odd?
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No, there's nothing odd about waiting six months for a card, "camping" in order to get two of them, going through the trouble of installing expensive water blocks on them, installing them into his current system, then throwing a little tantrum when a specific feature isn't quite ready yet and dismantling it all to send the cards back (if that's even an option anymore). Sounds like something any levelheaded, perfectly reasonable adult would do...

vjcsmoke said:
You'd think that if Nvidia had an EXTRA 6 months to come out with Fermi, then they'd have had plenty of time to get the drivers for it polished and ready for its release date at the very least.
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There's a flaw in your logic here... you see, nvidia didn't have an extra 6 months. It's not like the folks at nvidia said "Oh, we could release it today but we want an extra six months to make it perfect", it was more of an "Oh crap, stuff is broken and we need to fix it." At that point, priorities are taken. What's more important (and more importantly, easier to do?), getting the card to a point where it can actually be released to the public, or porting a technology that's already well developed to said product? Obviously priority number one was to get the card released.

Perhaps the line of thought at nvidia was "it'll be easier to port this technology to GeForce once we get the bigger issues sorted out", and perhaps it ended up being a little harder than what they initially thought. Who knows. Is it crappy that multi-monitor support isn't out yet? Yeah, very crappy. But this entire Fermi debacle has been crappy, and just because the cards have been launched doesn't mean all the problems have been ironed out. The impact of the troubles with Fermi will probably be felt at nvidia for several more months down the road as they scramble to get all their ducks in a row. Does it suck? Hell yeah... is throwing a temper tantrum about it going to help? No, that's something a two year old does (I'm not saying you're throwing a tantrum or anything, but several people in this thread seem to be).

The bottom line is, if you want a multi-monitor solution NOW, go with AMD. Since the reviews for Fermi came out LAST MONTH, we knew that multi-monitor support didn't make it with launch and that it was unknown when it would be released. Those factors should have been taken into consideration BEFORE jumping on the Fermi bandwagon.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
+1 about the ingame support! Whats really needed, is support so that the HUD is on the center screen especially. There is hacks for such, but having ingame support would be great! :D
Click to expand...
Yes, at least the hacks are there though. The more users they see, hopefully will have them offer a plug and play game experience.
 
Kowan said:
Didn't those running CF other than 5970s have to wait for Eyefinity supported drivers at release also?
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Yep, though AMD was upfront about it, saying it did not work for normal crossfire setups, then delivered before they said they would. Did that mean those folks couldn't use eyefinity? Nope, it just meant they could only run it from one of their cards.

If you're happy with the way nvidia is handling this situation, and somehow think their surround is magically better even though it exists for 0 of their cards, I dunno what to tell you.
 
I'm running GTX 285s that spend 99% of their time F@H.
If I had bought them expecting to use Surround, I wouldn't be happy for the delay.
The summer avg here is 100+F. The 480s run too hot for my taste and I have no plan to watercool to control the temps a multi-card setup would need for my uses.
So I'm in wait and see mode and looking to the fall for a new build.
 
Kowan said:
I'm running GTX 285s that spend 99% of their time F@H.
If I had bought them expecting to use Surround, I wouldn't be happy for the delay.
The summer avg here is 100+F. The 480s run too hot for my taste and I have no plan to watercool to control the temps a multi-card setup would need for my uses.
So I'm in wait and see mode and looking to the fall for a new build.
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Kowan I wouldn't worry about it at this point your setup is already Surround ready. Considering the folding aspect I'd hold out for the next revision if you just want a performance upgrade. Probably see the new revisions in winter or Q1/2011 if the manufacturing problems are any indication.

I gave up. 5870's on the way and my GTX275 is ready for dibs.
 
UtherLazarus said:
No, there's nothing odd about waiting six months for a card, "camping" in order to get two of them, going through the trouble of installing expensive water blocks on them, installing them into his current system, then throwing a little tantrum when a specific feature isn't quite ready yet and dismantling it all to send the cards back (if that's even an option anymore). Sounds like something any levelheaded, perfectly reasonable adult would do...
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking. I can understand wanting a $1000 setup of graphics cards to work as expected when you get them. Nvidia said it would be up in the following month, so it also is logical to think that they'll work by the end of April. But the fact that you had 5870's, bought 480's for Surround and increased power, and then started threatening to return them just because Surround isn't working yet, well that seems a little ridiculous to me. If I spent $1000 on graphics cards, I would consider that an investment and would do everything I possibly could to hold on to those as long as possible. Which doesn't include returning them 2-3 weeks after buying them. But that may just be my reasoning.

However, I've found it easier to always assume there's going to be delays. It prevents you from getting super frustrated everytime a game or driver release is delayed. And on another note, the 480 and 470 came out publicly on April 12th. While I am aware that the Nvidia website says the release is scheduled for April, I'm also aware that an exact month from that date extends upto May 12th. With that in mind, it could be early May before we even see the drivers.

Altogether, the best thing to do is what UtherLazarus said, make sure everything you want is working before you buy. If you know it's not, don't complain when there's a delay until it works. Personally, I'm still happy with nVidia, even with the delays. It's true that I would have liked the drivers to come out sooner, but it doesn't really matter to me, since I don't have to upgrade my graphics cards in order to be able to use Surround.
 
Asacolips said:
Exactly what I was thinking. I can understand wanting a $1000 setup of graphics cards to work as expected when you get them. Nvidia said it would be up in the following month, so it also is logical to think that they'll work by the end of April. But the fact that you had 5870's, bought 480's for Surround and increased power, and then started threatening to return them just because Surround isn't working yet, well that seems a little ridiculous to me. If I spent $1000 on graphics cards, I would consider that an investment and would do everything I possibly could to hold on to those as long as possible. Which doesn't include returning them 2-3 weeks after buying them. But that may just be my reasoning.
Click to expand...

All things equal, I'm happily in the position of considering a working multi-display system more important than losing a few bucks to go back to my old 5870 setup (especially if I can get a refund and since I still have my 5870s sitting here). As of now, I consider my remote computing work productivity and gaming experience crippled by two GTX 480s (I know that might sound ridiculous to some...)

I'm trying to remain as objective on this as possible, but admit I've got a bit of a chip on my shoulder from wasting half of last weekend installing components that don't work the way they're advertised.
 
Okay, so is the 256 release this entire new unified structure? If that's the case then there's a LOT more going on in this release than Surround. At this point then every must be baked and nVidia is just testing and with such a complex release I'm willing to give them a couple weeks to get it right but I wish they'd come out a make a statement just to at least say they haven't forgotten.
 
heatlesssun said:
Okay, so is the 256 release this entire new unified structure? If that's the case then there's a LOT more going on in this release than Surround. At this point then every must be baked and nVidia is just testing and with such a complex release I'm willing to give them a couple weeks to get it right but I wish they'd come out a make a statement just to at least say they haven't forgotten.
Click to expand...

that's just it... they need to say something. more than a small conference call a week ago based on a smaller topic.
 
While looking over the AT article, this line caught my attention:

AnandTech said:
Going forward, NVIDIA says that any official release available through their download pages (i.e. not a hotfix or a limited release for a new GPU) should come out with both mobile and desktop versions
Click to expand...

I guess it's still possible that NV Surround/3D Vision Surround support could be released as one of these so-called limited releases Anand mentions here. Who knows, I guess it's wait and see (such a familiar game with Fermi).
 
This is really tearing me up. I've already got a GTX 275 SLI system, and from what I can tell my rig would perform just a hair worse than a ATI 5850 CF setup. Just to get the same performance capabilities as my system I would need to spend ~$600 on two 5850s, or ~$800 on two 5870s if I actually wanted to get more performance. Am I right on that?

On one hand it does not seem worth the $600 just to get Eyefinity sooner than nVidia will release Surround, but on the other hand I think it is a matter of how long will it be before nVidia actually does what they promised they would do? Or if they'll do it at all.

Now the good news is that I have a leg to stand on to get a refund on my 2nd GTX 275. Granted I bought it for CUDA related reasons (otherwise I would have just gone with ATI right away), but part of that decision was based on the fact that nVidia has already announced that Surround would be available for GT200 SLI setups. The bad news is that I would have to convince Best Buy to refund it.

Still though...even refunding one card, I still have to pay a decent sum just to get Eyefinity and avoid a downgrade in performance.

Damn you nVidia for putting me in this situation.
 
heatlesssun said:
Okay, so is the 256 release this entire new unified structure? If that's the case then there's a LOT more going on in this release than Surround. At this point then every must be baked and nVidia is just testing and with such a complex release I'm willing to give them a couple weeks to get it right but I wish they'd come out a make a statement just to at least say they haven't forgotten.
Click to expand...

It tells me (optimistically speaking) that the GTX4XX series performance will improve significantly with the release of the new drivers, but as I said before as of this week I quit. I gave them til the end of April which is tomorrow. I'm not gonna sit around twiddling my thumbs and obsessing over the release date when I can have eyefinity now.
 
Wow ya so ummmm I'm gonna sell my 470's within 24 hours unless the 256 drivers come out by then. You hear me nvidia?!?! *shakes fist at the sky* lol I kid I kid.
 
This is really tearing me up. I've already got a GTX 275 SLI system, and from what I can tell my rig would perform just a hair worse than a ATI 5850 CF setup.
Click to expand...

That's definitely not going to be the case. The 5850 CF is slightly slower than the GTX 470 SLI, and a GTX 470 is definitely much faster than a GTX 275 in most games, anywhere from 25 to 50%.
 
Matrices said:
That's definitely not going to be the case. The 5850 CF is slightly slower than the GTX 470 SLI, and a GTX 470 is definitely much faster than a GTX 275 in most games, anywhere from 25 to 50%.
Click to expand...

I've been trying to find reliable benchmarks/reviews for that. Seems like relative performance is always a different story at different websites.

At least looking at HardOCP's review here, the ATI 5970 nails the GTX 295 in terms of performance. The 5970 ~= 2x 5850's and GTX 275 SLI ~= GTX 295 + a little more performance.

But then if you head over to Tom's Hardware's article here a 2x 5870 barely edges out a 2x GTX 285 setup. At least with 0xAA/0xAF, but 8xAA/0xAF is another story.

I know that these are only a few benchmarks, and only two websites, and not exactly comparing the same setups that I am interested. Maybe I'm not seeing the advantage because most/all of those benchmarks are only working with one monitor, and maybe I'm just not seeing benchmarks that do not dial up the settings enough to see a performance difference?

I just am trying to gauge what the advantage for me would be by moving, and what would be necessary to drive 3x 1680x1050 LCDs. If two GTX 275's would do it for sure, then it makes more sense for me to wait. Otherwise, maybe not.
 
I would also say look at the dates of those reviews. Not sure what drivers have done but it could have changed things somewhat, maybe not though, you would need to compare it to the 480 reviews or another recent review where the same game and card setup's are used.
 
night_2004 said:
I just am trying to gauge what the advantage for me would be by moving, and what would be necessary to drive 3x 1680x1050 LCDs. If two GTX 275's would do it for sure, then it makes more sense for me to wait. Otherwise, maybe not.
Click to expand...

I'm running 3 @ 1600x1200 on a 5870, and I couldn't be happier. That said, hopefully Nvidia is very close to releasing their new multi screen gaming drivers, so if you aren't hard pressed for time, I would give them a bit to see what comes out.
 
"Thanks for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.

NVIDIA Engineering and QA is still working on this feature. Obviously the date marketing presented has slipped but the feature is going to be in a near future Release 256.XX driver. Thanks for your patience."

From this response I would say the end of May. This will be my deadline at least.
 
Sometimes you just need to step back and apply common sense. A 5850 is similar to the 470. So if your GTX 275 SLI is about as fast as 5850 CF, then it's roughly on par with GTX 470 SLI - in other words, a 275 is comparable to a 470. Needless to say, that doesn't make any sense.

Obviously we are reasoning by way of indirect comparison here, but I can tell you that I have just gone from GTX 260 (216-core SLI) to GTX 470 SLI. There is no comparison, period. I can run Crysis Warhead 50% faster even *after* turning on 4x MSAA (from no MSAA).

I do agree, however, that it will be most interesting to see how GTX 260/275/280/285 SLI perform on Nvidia's three-monitor drivers.
 
duhokay said:
"Thanks for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.

NVIDIA Engineering and QA is still working on this feature. Obviously the date marketing presented has slipped but the feature is going to be in a near future Release 256.XX driver. Thanks for your patience."

From this response I would say the end of May. This will be my deadline at least.
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What does it say about the state of computer journalism that X pages later, we finally get an answer not from any "official" source, but from a guy who just happens to have the idea of e-mailing Nvidia customer service?

+rep to you, sir.
 
Matrices said:
Sometimes you just need to step back and apply common sense. A 5850 is similar to the 470. So if your GTX 275 SLI is about as fast as 5850 CF, then it's roughly on par with GTX 470 SLI - in other words, a 275 is comparable to a 470. Needless to say, that doesn't make any sense.
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Agreed. That's why I was trying to figure out what the heck was wrong here. As suggested in one of the other posts, yes I would bet that some of those reviews are using older drivers with worse performance. My "not so good common" sense and the fact that I can find articles out there that could even remotely suggest that is the case...that says something about how much trouble I have had trying to find good comparisons from multiple sources.

I'm mostly eyeballing getting a single 5870 - if that has more horsepower than a GTX 275 SLI (probably?) then I'd be comfortable getting one now and one later if I want it. Otherwise I'd look at the CF setups. Or I just abandon common sense altogether and drop $800 for two 5870's :D.

duhokay, is there any way you could press them for an ETA that is actually meaningful?
 
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I'm mostly eyeballing getting a single 5870 - if that has more horsepower than a GTX 275 SLI (probably?) then I'd be comfortable getting one now and one later if I want it. Otherwise I'd look at the CF setups.
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That's the problem I was having - "how can I upgrade from a GTX 260 SLI without buying yet another SLI/CF setup immediately?" Unfortunately, the short answer is that you can't.

In terms of raw speed, you probably wouldn't see much of a difference going to a 5870 or a GTX 480 from a GTX 275 SLI (except, in the latter case, at 25x16, where you'd have otherwise been framebuffer-limited). Your gameplay experience might feel smoother (single GPU is smoother than dual GPU at equivalent and near-equivalent FPS), and you'd have DX11 support, but it honestly wouldn't be much faster.

That's why I went 470 SLI. 5850 CF is probably a better deal at the moment, if a bit slower.
 
What do you guys think is holding Nvidia back from releasing the surround drivers so long past product release?

It's fun to blame the marketing department as Nvidia PR says (somebody make a Dilbert comic) but why would it be delayed so long? Didn't they have it as a demo unit a month before Fermi was released?

Think there are potentially performance problems/spanning bugs, etc. with getting it to work with all games maybe?
 
"Thanks for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.

The development and testing period for any driver takes a significant amount of time. Development naturally wants to release software that will improve the user experience or add features rather than hinder it. Because there are so many different hardware and software configurations, any changes made to the driver needs to be tested extensively by Quality Assurance teams all over the world to ensure the least amount of showstopper issues. If QA runs into any issues during this testing period (which they probably have), the intended driver release date (which is not public information nor known to us via this forum) will inevitably be pushed back some amount of time until problems are fixed.

With that being said, it's unfair to both you and I to try and give some sort of guestimate for driver release. Marketing will have already failed that in one more day when its May. However, NVIDIA Software Engineering will be supporting this feature eventually when its done so I hope you can understand and thanks for your patience."

Actually quite satisfied with that reply. As for what the issue is, I believe there are too many to list.
 
Spare-Flair said:
What do you guys think is holding Nvidia back from releasing the surround drivers so long past product release?

It's fun to blame the marketing department as Nvidia PR says (somebody make a Dilbert comic) but why would it be delayed so long? Didn't they have it as a demo unit a month before Fermi was released?

Think there are potentially performance problems/spanning bugs, etc. with getting it to work with all games maybe?
Click to expand...

Probably things like a user friendly GUI, bug fixing, performance problems, testing unusual configurations, and trying to get it feature comparable to Eyefinity (bezel management, etc..).

I can tell you that having a demo doesn't mean anything about the state of the product. Just as an example, an app I wrote is out being demoed to various investors, but if/when we decide to turn it into a product, I'd basically throw the code in the trash and start over.
 
I, like a few others here, just gave up and bit the bullet on a 5970 (yesterday). I've had these 3 monitors just sitting on my desk for weeks now and don't see much reason to keep waiting.

If nvidia pullls something amazing out of their hat I should be able to sell it without much trouble.
 
Nice pickup! Had an order for 2 5870 e6's but canceled. Will see if I can wait this thing out.
 
Yeah, that is a pretty fair reply. But they should not continue to paste their "in April" line on their website...that's a low blow. Being in the line of work I am, it is certainly understandable that you have to make sure your product works but sometimes being a little more open with your customers is a good idea.
 
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