NVIDIA Pulling Plug on GPP

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
49,847
Not only that, but my cousin with terminal cancer was miraculously cured the morning after Kyle posted the article. COINCIDENCE? I think not.
Hehe, NVIDIA with a planned PR stunt immediately after it GPP exit. Total coincidence. Maybe.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
49,847
Has Nvidia actually taken action against you? Meaning no free GPU access or anything like that? I am curious to see if Nvidia will stoop down to a lower level.
I have had no communication with NVIDIA besides it generic PR spam that is pushes out to a list. They do not answer my emails.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
55,988
I agree, no one has to stop buying nvidia but whats wrong is wrong. But to say AMD would something similar had they been in similar position. I think that is too much speculation on your part. Nvidia had no reason to do this, with the performance they have and market share they have. To say AMD wouldn't be guilty of same behavior is sort of very speculative. The honest answer is we don't know what AMD would do since they are not in that position.

I honestly have not seen many people here saying abandon Nvidia. But I am proud of those people that call it what it is regardless of what they buy. That is the entire point, Nvidia never needed to do this since they have an amazing product.
It is speculative. I don't deny that. However, people seem to act like AMD is benevolent or altruistic, and somehow different than other companies because they are some sort of blue collar underdog. In the past, AMD has charged as much or more than NVIDIA at the time for GPUs when it was ahead of NVIDIA on the performance front. AMD has charged just as much for CPUs at times when they offered enough performance to justify it. People think that AMD's use of FreeSync and other free / open standards shows how AMD cares about the consumer and highlights how greedy NVIDIA is. In reality, this behavior isn't about benevolence or customer service. Instead, these technologies are adopted by necessity to reach feature parity with NVIDIA as it doesn't have the market share to create proprietary technologies and strong arm companies into adopting them and thus guarantee success.

This doesn't excuse the GPP or make NVIDIA less guilty of being greedy assholes. However, you have to keep perspective. Just because AMD hasn't done some of the same things, you can't say it wouldn't or is somehow more benevolent because it hasn't engaged in such practices yet. An entirely private company can be less greedy if the person at the top isn't overly greedy. However, publicly traded companies are a different matter as their board of directors and CEO have a duty to shareholders and plenty of temptation or incentives to place profit above any other concerns. I'd wager that if AMD could fuck over Intel and NVIDIA tomorrow and start raking in the kind of money those companies do through somewhat morally questionable means they would so long as those means were technically legal.

Business isn't about being nice. The most successful businesses didn't get to the top by having the best products or services. Often times, they did so through having a good product and knowing how to play the "game" of the business world better than everyone else.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,155
Okay, there will be consequences for that childish behavior. Thank you Kyle, people that do the "right thing" despite that it may not be popular. I learned a lot from you.
I hate to say it but when the 11 series launches and if it looks good, it'll probably sell out in hours. And I'll probably be part of that crowd.

When were talking about GPUs we've only got two choices. I don't think most gaming GPU buyers care one way or the other between nVidia and AMD, but if a company produces a good product and one had been buying them for years and years, you get comfortable. I've personally had a lot more nVidia products and overall I've been very happy with them. These GTX 1080 Tis have been fantastic cards and AMD really had nothing for gaming to counter. So if AMD comes out with something compelling, I'll consider it like many other long time nVidia gaming GPU customers. But it would really have to be compelling.
 

RC-Heli-3D

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
192
I hate to say it but when the 11 series launches and if it looks good, it'll probably sell out in hours. And I'll probably be part of that crowd.

When were talking about GPUs we've only got two choices. I don't think most gaming GPU buyers care one way or the other between nVidia and AMD, but if a company produces a good product and one had been buying them for years and years, you get comfortable. I've personally had a lot more nVidia products and overall I've been very happy with them. These GTX 1080 Tis have been fantastic cards and AMD really had nothing for gaming to counter. So if AMD comes out with something compelling, I'll consider it like many other long time nVidia gaming GPU customers. But it would really have to be compelling.
You will get no answer on what you should buy or not. It is not my place to dedicate what you do with your money. I believe in freedom of choice.
 

RC-Heli-3D

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
192
It is speculative. I don't deny that. However, people seem to act like AMD is benevolent or altruistic, and somehow different than other companies because they are some sort of blue collar underdog. In the past, AMD has charged as much or more than NVIDIA at the time for GPUs when it was ahead of NVIDIA on the performance front. AMD has charged just as much for CPUs at times when they offered enough performance to justify it. People think that AMD's use of FreeSync and other free / open standards shows how AMD cares about the consumer and highlights how greedy NVIDIA is. In reality, this behavior isn't about benevolence or customer service. Instead, these technologies are adopted by necessity to reach feature parity with NVIDIA as it doesn't have the market share to create proprietary technologies and strong arm companies into adopting them and thus guarantee success.

This doesn't excuse the GPP or make NVIDIA less guilty of being greedy assholes. However, you have to keep perspective. Just because AMD hasn't done some of the same things, you can't say it wouldn't or is somehow more benevolent because it hasn't engaged in such practices yet. An entirely private company can be less greedy if the person at the top isn't overly greedy. However, publicly traded companies are a different matter as their board of directors and CEO have a duty to shareholders and plenty of temptation or incentives to place profit above any other concerns. I'd wager that if AMD could fuck over Intel and NVIDIA tomorrow and start raking in the kind of money those companies do through somewhat morally questionable means they would so long as those means were technically legal.

Business isn't about being nice. The most successful businesses didn't get to the top by having the best products or services. Often times, they did so through having a good product and knowing how to play the "game" of the business world better than everyone else.
Dan, you are depressing me. You speak the truth on the business end. It all comes down to human nature being the center core of evilness. The last 24 months has shown me how corrupt everything is. I can't find anything good anymore except in my own little world. The more I know, the more less I want to know.
 

IdiotInCharge

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
13,852
It all comes down to human nature being the center core of evilness. The last 24 months has shown me how corrupt everything is.
The antidote with business is simply to not apply your personal ethics and morality system to business in the first place. It's more like warfare; everyone cheats. Some are better than others, and most 'cheating' isn't illegal.

Here we see Nvidia's scheme not curtailed because what they did was illegal, but because AMD exercised their only reasonable option: an emotional appeal to the press. Due to their poor competitiveness in the various GPU spaces since aquiring ATI they've steadily lost marketshare and influence and have very little leverage over their distribution network, which is something the courts would have considered if the GPP made it that far; further, there's very little indication that any decision would have been decided in their favor.

So they reached out to the 'community', and the response prompted Nvidia to back off for now. I'd expect Nvidia to have simply decided that the GPP was costing them more than it was worth, and AIB's very likely got the message either way: Nvidia is serious about keeping their products branded separately.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
55,988
Dan, you are depressing me. You speak the truth on the business end. It all comes down to human nature being the center core of evilness. The last 24 months has shown me how corrupt everything is. I can't find anything good anymore except in my own little world. The more I know, the more less I want to know.
I'm not one of these intellectual hipster types that can quote a whole lot of literature or philosophy but this is one I do know and I think it applies here:

"In much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increseth sorrow." - Solomon

The antidote with business is simply to not apply your personal ethics and morality system to business in the first place. It's more like warfare; everyone cheats. Some are better than others, and most 'cheating' isn't illegal.

Here we see Nvidia's scheme not curtailed because what they did was illegal, but because AMD exercised their only reasonable option: an emotional appeal to the press. Due to their poor competitiveness in the various GPU spaces since aquiring ATI they've steadily lost marketshare and influence and have very little leverage over their distribution network, which is something the courts would have considered if the GPP made it that far; further, there's very little indication that any decision would have been decided in their favor.

So they reached out to the 'community', and the response prompted Nvidia to back off for now. I'd expect Nvidia to have simply decided that the GPP was costing them more than it was worth, and AIB's very likely got the message either way: Nvidia is serious about keeping their products branded separately.
There is a common misconception that greed is inherently evil and it isn't. We all do everything for our own selfish reasons. At the core of everything we humans do, there is an element of greed to it. Even selfless acts are in a way, fuel for our own ego, self-image or whatever. The problem usually occurs when greed is taken too far. Its when that greed comes to the detriment of all other things. It tends to blind people into doing things to that end and they get tunnel vision and notice little else but their own selfish pursuits.
 

MrXL

n00b
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
11
It is speculative. I don't deny that. However, people seem to act like AMD is benevolent or altruistic, and somehow different than other companies because they are some sort of blue collar underdog. In the past, AMD has charged as much or more than NVIDIA at the time for GPUs when it was ahead of NVIDIA on the performance front. AMD has charged just as much for CPUs at times when they offered enough performance to justify it. People think that AMD's use of FreeSync and other free / open standards shows how AMD cares about the consumer and highlights how greedy NVIDIA is. In reality, this behavior isn't about benevolence or customer service. Instead, these technologies are adopted by necessity to reach feature parity with NVIDIA as it doesn't have the market share to create proprietary technologies and strong arm companies into adopting them and thus guarantee success.

This doesn't excuse the GPP or make NVIDIA less guilty of being greedy assholes. However, you have to keep perspective. Just because AMD hasn't done some of the same things, you can't say it wouldn't or is somehow more benevolent because it hasn't engaged in such practices yet. An entirely private company can be less greedy if the person at the top isn't overly greedy. However, publicly traded companies are a different matter as their board of directors and CEO have a duty to shareholders and plenty of temptation or incentives to place profit above any other concerns. I'd wager that if AMD could fuck over Intel and NVIDIA tomorrow and start raking in the kind of money those companies do through somewhat morally questionable means they would so long as those means were technically legal.

Business isn't about being nice. The most successful businesses didn't get to the top by having the best products or services. Often times, they did so through having a good product and knowing how to play the "game" of the business world better than everyone else.
Yeah ok, but wasn't this thread about GPP and not about other companies being assholes too if they could. Or your assumptions on what people think or understand?
 

NKD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
7,852
It is speculative. I don't deny that. However, people seem to act like AMD is benevolent or altruistic, and somehow different than other companies because they are some sort of blue collar underdog. In the past, AMD has charged as much or more than NVIDIA at the time for GPUs when it was ahead of NVIDIA on the performance front. AMD has charged just as much for CPUs at times when they offered enough performance to justify it. People think that AMD's use of FreeSync and other free / open standards shows how AMD cares about the consumer and highlights how greedy NVIDIA is. In reality, this behavior isn't about benevolence or customer service. Instead, these technologies are adopted by necessity to reach feature parity with NVIDIA as it doesn't have the market share to create proprietary technologies and strong arm companies into adopting them and thus guarantee success.

This doesn't excuse the GPP or make NVIDIA less guilty of being greedy assholes. However, you have to keep perspective. Just because AMD hasn't done some of the same things, you can't say it wouldn't or is somehow more benevolent because it hasn't engaged in such practices yet. An entirely private company can be less greedy if the person at the top isn't overly greedy. However, publicly traded companies are a different matter as their board of directors and CEO have a duty to shareholders and plenty of temptation or incentives to place profit above any other concerns. I'd wager that if AMD could fuck over Intel and NVIDIA tomorrow and start raking in the kind of money those companies do through somewhat morally questionable means they would so long as those means were technically legal.

Business isn't about being nice. The most successful businesses didn't get to the top by having the best products or services. Often times, they did so through having a good product and knowing how to play the "game" of the business world better than everyone else.

Charging more for a better product is not equivalent to GPP though. Businesses are there to make profit. They should. Nvidia can charge whatever they want, they just blew past their quarterly earnings, shattered it. Charge whatever they like but GPP had no excuse. if AMD does pull GPP crap I would be first to criticize them. Charging more is different, a company can charge whatever people are willing to pay for it. Nvidia made shit load of money but pulling GPP crap was pure greed to hurt competition.

While you are criticizing GPP, you made it about charging more? I don't think anyone was complaining about Nvidia charging more for a better product.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
55,988
Charging more for a better product is not equivalent to GPP though. Businesses are there to make profit. They should. Nvidia can charge whatever they want, they just blew past their quarterly earnings, shattered it. Charge whatever they like but GPP had no excuse. if AMD does pull GPP crap I would be first to criticize them. Charging more is different, a company can charge whatever people are willing to pay for it. Nvidia made shit load of money but pulling GPP crap was pure greed to hurt competition.

While you are criticizing GPP, you made it about charging more? I don't think anyone was complaining about Nvidia charging more for a better product.
No I didn't. I used that as example of how AMD is basically like any other publicly traded company. That's the basis behind my speculative comment that AMD's behavior would be more like NVIDIA or Intel's if they could get away with it.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
49,847
Immediately after GPP ? What are you on about? GPP isn't an event that was on a certain date. You broke the story on GPP, they announced this restocking a few days after announcing the end of GPP. Whether the GPUs are shipped to them by sea or air is of little relevance here, you're arguing that they restock their products as a kneejerk response to the negative press from GPP; almost as though they were just sitting on the shipments till you forced their hand. That's absurd.

The shortage is real.

Edit: Wait, what? Cards? I'm not talking about the geforce store, I'm talking wafers from TSMC.

Even in the case of the geforce store, arguing that availability was a PR response to your GPP story is analogous to arguing that they had been sitting on their stock in response to your GPP story.
Okie dokie.
 

Meeho

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
4,896
No I didn't. I used that as example of how AMD is basically like any other publicly traded company. That's the basis behind my speculative comment that AMD's behavior would be more like NVIDIA or Intel's if they could get away with it.
No, AMD is not like Nvidia. You may speculate they would be if they could be, but that is just your speculation. They are no saints, but the haven't pulled shit the level of Intel or Nvidia, and until they do, they are not the same.
 

Meeho

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
4,896
The antidote with business is simply to not apply your personal ethics and morality system to business in the first place. It's more like warfare; everyone cheats. Some are better than others, and most 'cheating' isn't illegal.

Here we see Nvidia's scheme not curtailed because what they did was illegal, but because AMD exercised their only reasonable option: an emotional appeal to the press. Due to their poor competitiveness in the various GPU spaces since aquiring ATI they've steadily lost marketshare and influence and have very little leverage over their distribution network, which is something the courts would have considered if the GPP made it that far; further, there's very little indication that any decision would have been decided in their favor.

So they reached out to the 'community', and the response prompted Nvidia to back off for now. I'd expect Nvidia to have simply decided that the GPP was costing them more than it was worth, and AIB's very likely got the message either way: Nvidia is serious about keeping their products branded separately.
Oh, please. What press and consumer revolt? They would've sold everything they produced to gaming sheep and press coverage was all but nonexistant. What got them to back off was Kyle stirring shit and AIBs, OEMs and some big boys like Intel looking into more serious backlash.
 

Nobu

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
3,940
Maybe I am reading too deep into some of these posts, but here's the sarcasm in case anyone missed it :
/sarcasm
 

SmokeRngs

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2008
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
16,098
It is speculative. I don't deny that. However, people seem to act like AMD is benevolent or altruistic, and somehow different than other companies because they are some sort of blue collar underdog. In the past, AMD has charged as much or more than NVIDIA at the time for GPUs when it was ahead of NVIDIA on the performance front. AMD has charged just as much for CPUs at times when they offered enough performance to justify it. People think that AMD's use of FreeSync and other free / open standards shows how AMD cares about the consumer and highlights how greedy NVIDIA is. In reality, this behavior isn't about benevolence or customer service. Instead, these technologies are adopted by necessity to reach feature parity with NVIDIA as it doesn't have the market share to create proprietary technologies and strong arm companies into adopting them and thus guarantee success.

This doesn't excuse the GPP or make NVIDIA less guilty of being greedy assholes. However, you have to keep perspective. Just because AMD hasn't done some of the same things, you can't say it wouldn't or is somehow more benevolent because it hasn't engaged in such practices yet. An entirely private company can be less greedy if the person at the top isn't overly greedy. However, publicly traded companies are a different matter as their board of directors and CEO have a duty to shareholders and plenty of temptation or incentives to place profit above any other concerns. I'd wager that if AMD could fuck over Intel and NVIDIA tomorrow and start raking in the kind of money those companies do through somewhat morally questionable means they would so long as those means were technically legal.

Business isn't about being nice. The most successful businesses didn't get to the top by having the best products or services. Often times, they did so through having a good product and knowing how to play the "game" of the business world better than everyone else.
I have an issue with what you say with regards to AMD pushing more open standards rather than proprietary like nVidia does. I don't care if AMD's motivations aren't altruistic because it doesn't matter. The motivation for pushing open standards and such don't matter as much as the push for open standards. It's the result that matters more. AMD's push may be nothing more than a cynical marketing decision but if that push means the consumers benefit in the long run, I'm perfectly fine with that. If AMD receives personal benefits by benefiting the consumers and continues to push that way, it's a win for everyone even if the only motivation for AMD is in profit.

I'm not calling AMD altruistic because that's not the case. It also doesn't matter. A company can be greedy and push for nothing but profit but if the mechanism for getting that profit benefits the consumers/customers then it's a win/win for everyone but AMD's competitors. That said, the moment AMD goes off the rails to pursue bullshit such as nVidia's GPP is the moment I'll be beating the drum that people should stop supporting AMD.
 

NKD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
7,852
No I didn't. I used that as example of how AMD is basically like any other publicly traded company. That's the basis behind my speculative comment that AMD's behavior would be more like NVIDIA or Intel's if they could get away with it.

Hmm! I guess whatever you say. But I disagree. Just because they are the same type of company it justifies the speculation? Lol. Common I mean no disrespect. Until AMD pulls anti competitive stuff like Nvidia and Intel they are not.

What you are saying is they are publicly traded you can speculate? Haha. By your account all publicly traded companies are the same wether they have yet to engage in anti competitive behavior or not. That’s just silly.
 

NKD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
7,852
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/8im8rf
What a lame response. I think that excuse is so lame coming from successful company that is doing so well. To make sure gamers are getting the right GPU? Really lol.

So Nvidia is basically saying people were dumb and couldn't tell what GPU they were buying so they were trying to make sure they are buying nvidia. LOL, despite the fact they are blowing past their earning.

What he failed to say was that Nvidia wanted every manufacture to align their gaming brand. That was the wrong thing with GPP. Heck gigabyte was even saying they don't consider radeon gaming brand, wtf? LOL.

So basically Nvidia cards were to be the gaming cards and manufacturer couldn't align gaming brand with AMD. That was the downfall of GPP.

It was suppose to be transparent but we couldn't publicly show it was. Hahaha

I guess the cards didn't say gtx 1070. 1080 or what not on the box.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
49,847
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/8im8rf
What a lame response. I think that excuse is so lame coming from successful company that is doing so well. To make sure gamers are getting the right GPU? Really lol.

So Nvidia is basically saying people were dumb and couldn't tell what GPU they were buying so they were trying to make sure they are buying nvidia. LOL, despite the fact they are blowing past their earning.

What he failed to say was that Nvidia wanted every manufacture to align their gaming brand. That was the wrong thing with GPP. Heck gigabyte was even saying they don't consider radeon gaming brand, wtf? LOL.

So basically Nvidia cards were to be the gaming cards and manufacturer couldn't align gaming brand with AMD. That was the downfall of GPP.

It was suppose to be transparent but we couldn't publicly show it was. Hahaha

I guess the cards didn't say gtx 1070. 1080 or what not on the box.
Not lame, an outright lie.
 

wizzi01

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
2,595
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/8im8rf
What a lame response. I think that excuse is so lame coming from successful company that is doing so well. To make sure gamers are getting the right GPU? Really lol.

So Nvidia is basically saying people were dumb and couldn't tell what GPU they were buying so they were trying to make sure they are buying nvidia. LOL, despite the fact they are blowing past their earning.

What he failed to say was that Nvidia wanted every manufacture to align their gaming brand. That was the wrong thing with GPP. Heck gigabyte was even saying they don't consider radeon gaming brand, wtf? LOL.

So basically Nvidia cards were to be the gaming cards and manufacturer couldn't align gaming brand with AMD. That was the downfall of GPP.

It was suppose to be transparent but we couldn't publicly show it was. Hahaha

I guess the cards didn't say gtx 1070. 1080 or what not on the box.

Maybe he should lift the nda and let the partners really talk about gpp.
 

SeymourGore

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
2,962
Makes sense: you wouldn't want some poor consumer accidentally pair up their Gsync monitor to a Radeon GPU afterall.
 

Brackle

Old Timer
Joined
Jun 19, 2003
Messages
7,380
Makes sense: you wouldn't want some poor consumer accidentally pair up their Gsync monitor to a Radeon GPU afterall.
If Nvidia would just support FreeSync (or whatever the open standard is called). Then the ecosystem would be bigger.....TBH It would help Nvidia since there are way more Freesync monitors than Gsync
 

SeymourGore

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
2,962
If Nvidia would just support FreeSync (or whatever the open standard is called). Then the ecosystem would be bigger.....TBH It would help Nvidia since there are way more Freesync monitors than Gsync
I'm hoping if Intel decides to support Freesync with their new dedicated GPU, that would put enough pressure on NVidia to support it too.
 

IdiotInCharge

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
13,852
Intel is supporting FreeSync with their next IGP overhaul- which has been delayed for a few years for 10nm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this
S

Shop_vac

Guest
I'm not one of these intellectual hipster types that can quote a whole lot of literature or philosophy but this is one I do know and I think it applies here:

"In much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increseth sorrow." - Solomon



There is a common misconception that greed is inherently evil and it isn't. We all do everything for our own selfish reasons. At the core of everything we humans do, there is an element of greed to it. Even selfless acts are in a way, fuel for our own ego, self-image or whatever. The problem usually occurs when greed is taken too far. Its when that greed comes to the detriment of all other things. It tends to blind people into doing things to that end and they get tunnel vision and notice little else but their own selfish pursuits.

I used to run a coffee shop where the owner demanded I pay $8 dollars an hour to all incoming work force. It was embarrassing. When the neighboring shops would start at 9 - 11, we'd only get the uninformed or uninitiated, etc.

But we had food profits in the ideal 30% range, beverage profits in excess of 50% (we were located next to a grocery and didn't need to depend on delivery), and the best coffee in a wide range because we self roasted and bought expensive beans.

So when other shops slowly disappeared, and the owner of that particular shop had incentive to raise pay, he did, but never for new employees. The 8$ starting range was a calculation that went beyond greed; it was a neccesesity and was the only thing, even with good profits, that allowed him to run a successful business.

But I absolutely loathed him and have nothing nice to say about his ethics. Business decisions are the coldest kinds.
 

ChadD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
4,582
I used to run a coffee shop where the owner demanded I pay $8 dollars an hour to all incoming work force. It was embarrassing. When the neighboring shops would start at 9 - 11, we'd only get the uninformed or uninitiated, etc.

But we had food profits in the ideal 30% range, beverage profits in excess of 50% (we were located next to a grocery and didn't need to depend on delivery), and the best coffee in a wide range because we self roasted and bought expensive beans.

So when other shops slowly disappeared, and the owner of that particular shop had incentive to raise pay, he did, but never for new employees. The 8$ starting range was a calculation that went beyond greed; it was a neccesesity and was the only thing, even with good profits, that allowed him to run a successful business.

But I absolutely loathed him and have nothing nice to say about his ethics. Business decisions are the coldest kinds.
Not that I would argue labour costs are always make it or break it.... however if neighboring shops started at $9-11 /h. Isn't the statement that he required a $8 starting wage to survive sort of BS, as somehow the neighboring shops where still in business. lol

Seriously as someone who has likewise employed people. Low balling the starting wage is simply a good way to get lazy employees that cost you more then they make you. Being generous with the leadership is an even better way to ensure the new blood pulls its weight. But anyway... I know I'm off topic. lol :)
 
S

Shop_vac

Guest
Not that I would argue labour costs are always make it or break it.... however if neighboring shops started at $9-11 /h. Isn't the statement that he required a $8 starting wage to survive sort of BS, as somehow the neighboring shops where still in business. lol

Seriously as someone who has likewise employed people. Low balling the starting wage is simply a good way to get lazy employees that cost you more then they make you. Being generous with the leadership is an even better way to ensure the new blood pulls its weight. But anyway... I know I'm off topic. lol :)
I wouldn't say bs, though I was at odds with it. He has survived 3 competitors, though a new kwik trip is pressuring the shop in mention (which surprises me given how fickle coffee drinkers are).

Low balling wages seems counterproductive in theory because you don't attract experience (though there are some goodwill hires). Training has costs, and for low amounts of pay people are apt to quit for fuck-all reasons.

Most people also consider minimum wages unethical, though it's deemed a neccesesity by many businesses (Wal-Mart famously).
 

NKD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
7,852
Makes sense: you wouldn't want some poor consumer accidentally pair up their Gsync monitor to a Radeon GPU afterall.
What does exclusive gaming branding have to do with Freesync? If someone is buying gtx 1080 and they buy a free sync monitor its because they didn't do their research. GPP wouldn't make people overcome that mistake. Unless ofcourse you were joking. In that case it makes sense lol.
 
S

Shop_vac

Guest
I never claimed that it did and that's hardly the case.

I've said it before, people need to keep things in perspective. I'd wager almost every single multi-billion dollar publicly traded company has done things or engages in business practices people would find distasteful or worse if they were privy to all their dealings. Intel and others have likely done far worse and people still buy products from those companies without a second thought. I'm not saying the particulars of the GPP aren't bad, but Intel has practically set the standard and raised the bar on anti-competitive business practices in this industry. No one seems to give two squirts of piss about that when Intel's primary competition is so far behind its almost laughable. In fact, no one seemed to care what Intel did until AMD had a product out that was faster than Intel's Pentium IV and Pentium D processors. No one gave a shit when AMD's Phenom and aptly named Bulldozer were over half a decade behind Intel on the performance front and pulled damn near double the power for what little performance they had. Many people who hate Intel bought those processors with no thought to Intel's reputation in the industry or for the tactics that kept AMD from succeeding despite having a better product in the Athlon 64 and Athlon X2.

When people tell you that the GPP won't make them stop buying NVIDIA, I suspect its much the same thing. They'll need far more detail on the subject before they'd be willing to buy AMD's inferior GPUs over NVIDIAs. That's the camp I'm in. I'm sure the details about the GPP are interesting and perhaps even repulsive but it would take a lot for me to switch to team red over it. I'm also not going to pretend that AMD wouldn't be guilty of similar behavior were it in the market position to act in a similar fashion.
This mirrors my feelings exactly.

The take away from GPP reporting is that company x can be swayed by public perception, which is a good thing to know. It doesn't mean company y and z don't engage in equally successful practices. And it doesn't equate to the legality or commonplace of these types of deals.

Nvidia, like most companies, never expects these policies to be moderated on a public forum. The blog is proof of that: hastily thrown together because information is leaking either way.

It's also likely nvidia and intel could shop stories of anti-competitive accusations as easily as AMD, but chose not to.
 

NKD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
7,852
This mirrors my feelings exactly.

The take away from GPP reporting is that company x can be swayed by public perception, which is a good thing to know. It doesn't mean company y and z don't engage in equally successful practices. And it doesn't equate to the legality or commonplace of these types of deals.

Nvidia, like most companies, never expects these policies to be moderated on a public forum. The blog is proof of that: hastily thrown together because information is leaking either way.

It's also likely nvidia and intel could shop stories of anti-competitive accusations as easily as AMD, but chose not to.
I can bet you a pretty penny if AMD pulled shit like GPP, Kyle would be all over it and it wont go silently. I am amazed how some people are justifying this by saying oh they all do it. No they don't. Yea companies try to do things to make more profit. But not all companies try to do anti competitive things to gain advantage. Heck especially the one that has been dominating the gaming market. The stupid part is nvidia tried to pull this off when they are already killing it in the gaming market.

People are ignoring the simple fact. Nvidia wanted everyone to align their gaming brand to GPP. Meaning if you put AMD card in you couldn't advertise it as gaming. Gigabyte rep even said they are doing this because radeon is not their gaming brand. You all see? If you wanted a gaming card, all brands had to align their gaming brands to nvidia chips. That was primarily what was wrong with GPP. I can bet wen dell and hp gave Nvidia the middle finger they probably though it wasn't worth it. Now dell couldn't call an amd system a gaming system. Everything is wrong with that.
 

Brackle

Old Timer
Joined
Jun 19, 2003
Messages
7,380
All I know is I had a buddy who recently bought a 1070ti. And he linked me a monitor he wanted to buy, and it was a freesync monitor. I told him that is the wrong type of monitor for a Nvidia video card and he needed a Gsync monitor for smooth gaming....He literally had no idea and thought they were the same shit.

Once he realized how much more Gsync monitors were, he said fuck it and just bought the freesync monitor.....Some PC gaming people are not informed and do little research sometimes. They just see the brand (Nvidia) and know that they make top notch cards. So they buy them, This is a branding problem AMD has when it comes to video cards. GPP Made it even worse for AMD.
 

Shotglass01

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
1,921
I can bet you a pretty penny if AMD pulled shit like GPP, Kyle would be all over it and it wont go silently
Fecking +1! Been here longer than I want to admit. I trust the guy. I've made good purchasing decisions from this place. I've supported. And I've been an Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and ATI shill depending on timing. Sadly, I've always been an MS whore. Any of you feckers thinking Kyle's got bias, well, he's been biased from the start of the site! Just look at how he's moved, effortlessly between companies. It's always about who's giving him a paycheck. :woot:
 
S

Shop_vac

Guest
I can bet you a pretty penny if AMD pulled shit like GPP, Kyle would be all over it and it wont go silently. I am amazed how some people are justifying this by saying oh they all do it. No they don't. Yea companies try to do things to make more profit. But not all companies try to do anti competitive things to gain advantage. Heck especially the one that has been dominating the gaming market. The stupid part is nvidia tried to pull this off when they are already killing it in the gaming market.

People are ignoring the simple fact. Nvidia wanted everyone to align their gaming brand to GPP. Meaning if you put AMD card in you couldn't advertise it as gaming. Gigabyte rep even said they are doing this because radeon is not their gaming brand. You all see? If you wanted a gaming card, all brands had to align their gaming brands to nvidia chips. That was primarily what was wrong with GPP. I can bet wen dell and hp gave Nvidia the middle finger they probably though it wasn't worth it. Now dell couldn't call an amd system a gaming system. Everything is wrong with that.
Your assessment of GPP doesn't even align with what actually happened. An AMD gaming card was introduced by Asus, a GPP partner.

You don't know about any other anti-competitive policies because no-one is bothering to report on them, not because they don't exist. Many people you claim are justifying GPP are the same people telling you unequivocally that it occurs in most business, a fact you conviently ignore.
 

sirmonkey1985

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
21,924
All I know is I had a buddy who recently bought a 1070ti. And he linked me a monitor he wanted to buy, and it was a freesync monitor. I told him that is the wrong type of monitor for a Nvidia video card and he needed a Gsync monitor for smooth gaming....He literally had no idea and thought they were the same shit.

Once he realized how much more Gsync monitors were, he said fuck it and just bought the freesync monitor.....Some PC gaming people are not informed and do little research sometimes. They just see the brand (Nvidia) and know that they make top notch cards. So they buy them, This is a branding problem AMD has when it comes to video cards. GPP Made it even worse for AMD.
i did the same thing.. found my monitor on sale for 120 but was freesync, wanted the gsync since i had a nvidia card then saw the price at 250 dollars.. feck that went with the freesync monitor instead and just adjust settings so i always sit at a constant 75fps.
 
Tags
nvidia gpp
Top