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nVidia: "Oops, I did it again" [56=NO]

Killa|3yte

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
2,266
EDIT: jpeg'd to save space on server.

Well, I'm sure most of you have seen the new UT2k4 shots from the NV40. Like most people, I was very impressed with the Anti-Aliasing quality. The NV40 shots were taken at 4xAA/8xAF. Just to see what R3x00 renders looked like side by side, I set my D3D tab to 4xAA/8xAF as well and took some shots as identical to the NV40 shots that I could.

What I found really surprised me. While alone, the NV40 shots look great, when flipping through full screen captures of NV40 vs R3x00, we see what is really going on.

To really see this for yourself, I recommend downloading these to a folder and flipping through them in fullscreen mode. Viewing side by side images dont really give the full effect.

Here is the original NV40 shot, 4xAA/8xAF
Looks pretty good by itself.

UT2004-2.jpg


This is my 9800NP -- 4xAA/8xAF
-- FPS shown

My_UT2004-2.jpg


Now, flip through these 2 images and you will see what I'm talking about. nVidia achieved this pseudo perfect anti-aliasing by blurring the bejebus out of their render. Notice especially the sniper rifle in the NV40 and 9800NP. If I may quote the UT2004 Announcer, "Holy Shit!"

Now, just to add insult to injury, I loaded up my 9800NP render up in photoshop and performed the following operations

Gaussian Blur: 0.3 pixels
Contrast: +10

The result is disturbingly similar (the blurred photoshopped one is STILL a bit clearer) to the original NV40 shot, try flipping through the original shot and this one

My2_UT2004-2.jpg


And just for kicks, I took another 9800NP shot at 6xAA/8xAF, note FPS

My3_UT2004-2.jpg


Just my opinion, but unless R420 bombs like GFFX5800U, think I may be sticking with ATi, who doesnt use blur filters in their cards, uses Trilinear filtering, and doesnt replace shaders. :rolleyes:
 
you realize that this is only one mode that is confirmed to have this correct? anyways, nvidia has had aa with blur like this since the geforce3, or have you never heard of quincux or 4x 9tap
 
But add some Digital Vibrance and that nv40 picture will surely be better than ATi's attempt! ;)
 
the nv screen is probably quincux(SP?).

But i hope nvidia have goten normal edge AA sorted on the nv40. The NV screen here look pure crap, i would never play with an image that is that blured.
 
Originally posted by Merlin45
you realize that this is only one mode that is confirmed to have this correct? anyways, nvidia has had aa with blur like this since the geforce3, or have you never heard of quincux or 4x 9tap

Yes, I know what it is. AA is smoothing of the edges, not the whole picture.

Originally posted by LabRat
But add some Digital Vibrance and that nv40 picture will surely be better than ATi's attempt!

All Digital Vibrance is: modifying brightness, contrast, and color saturation ...not exactly a 'special' feature

Originally posted by Bad_Boy
the fps which is unknown, is also a factor.

True, why they didnt include it is beyond me :(
 
I'd like to point out that this thread is suffering from a near fatal case of 'full of shitness'. Not only do we NOT have any confirmation that the pics posted by Veggeto are in fact from the NV40 but even if we did, Veggeto himself stated that he didn't know what AA/AF they were running at though he waged they were some form of Quicnox. Regardless, the best and the brightest [not you] over at B3D have yet to figure out the AA/AF so you'll have to forgive me if I take your comparision at face value [see previous comment about shit and its fullness].
 
Originally posted by Vagrant Zero
I'd like to point out that this thread is suffering from a near fatal case of 'full of shitness'. Not only do we NOT have any confirmation that the pics posted by Veggeto are in fact from the NV40 but even if we did, Veggeto himself stated that he didn't know what AA/AF they were running at though he waged they were some form of Quicnox. Regardless, the best and the brightest [not you] over at B3D have yet to figure out the AA/AF so you'll have to forgive me if I take your comparision at face value [see previous comment about shit and it's fullness].

Veggeto stated that it is 4x/8x :rolleyes:

Now, the fact that you got that important detail incorrect makes me wonder if you've done all your homework or just talking trash...
 
well, with the wording in this thread, a flame war is bound to happen
i think you are getting ahead of yourself, just wait until independent reviews come out
 
Originally posted by Aztlan
well, with the wording in this thread, a flame war is bound to happen
i think you are getting ahead of yourself, just wait until independent reviews come out

I bet Brent has one right now...
 
Originally posted by Killa|3yte
Veggeto stated that it is 4x/8x :rolleyes:

Now, the fact that you got that important detail incorrect makes me wonder if you've done all your homework or just talking trash...

He also got called on it and double backed saying he wasn't quite so sure [he himself didn't take the pictures nor was he in possesion of the card].

Hi to everyone...... Sorry for being so late, but I had some problems and well have to check them first. I was reading this, and talking to uttar and I got a little worried about the source.... so I called him and ask if everything was alright, well at least for now seems to be that everything is good.

That's from Page 17. It is a 21 page thread you know. Let me guess you only read the first page? If you want to save yourself some time just read the last few pages, mostly everything inbetween is a flame war about UT2K4 being CPU limited [go figure].

But I'll just go ahead summarize, actually I'll just copy-paste a post from the original thread that does it for me. :D

So, to summarize:

UT2004 numbers are ambiguous.
3dmark score is extremely unlikely, at least on the described PC.
3dmark filtrate is impossible
Stated AA mode does not match the on-screen result.

Nothing against Vegetto, who himself is apparently only a secondary source, but the whole things smells.
 
my guess it is some form of 4x 9tap, that would account for the blur and the 4x aa. and just because there is one mode that has blur doesn't mean that they all do.
 
Vagrant Zero, give the guy a break lol. Half the fun of this board is speculating on upcoming releases, the guy actually put effort into comparing the NV40 results to that of a 9800NP just so that we could have another viewpoint of the situation. Sure nothing is confirmed, but like I said, half the fun is speculating on upcoming hardware.
 
Dude, this thread goes a little bit beyond speculation. Speculation is 'I think blah blah blah', not HEY GUYS LOOK AT THESE SIDE BY SIDE SHOTS, especially when we have no bloody clue if the NV pics and their stated AA/AF are legit.
 
Originally posted by Killa|3yte



All Digital Vibrance is: modifying brightness, contrast, and color saturation ...not exactly a 'special' feature


Yes. I'm rather familiar with it. The comment was firmly tongue-in-cheek.
 
dude. all 4 of those pics looks exactly the same to me, except for maybe brightness. wtf :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Vagrant Zero
Dude, this thread goes a little bit beyond speculation. Speculation is 'I think blah blah blah', not HEY GUYS LOOK AT THESE SIDE BY SIDE SHOTS, especially when we have no bloody clue if the NV pics and their stated AA/AF are legit.

Very well, I suppose your right, but these are the only shots I have to work with, you have any REAL NV40 screenies?? :D
 
The 9800 blurred shot is missing the details visible on the NV40 shot. Look at the grating on the left. The zooms and discussion at beyond3d offer a far more detailed explanation than your guess in the first post. Maybe you should go back and re-read the 2 main threads there.

fanboys... :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by defenseman
dude. all 4 of those pics looks exactly the same to me, except for maybe brightness. wtf :rolleyes:

You should get your eyes checked :p


Personally, I think the NV40 pics look nicer. Just wish they showed the FPS...
 
Originally posted by Killa|3yte
Well, I'm sure most of you have seen the new UT2k4 shots from the NV40. Like most people, I was very impressed with the Anti-Aliasing quality. The NV40 shots were taken at 4xAA/8xAF. Just to see what R3x00 renders looked like side by side, I set my D3D tab to 4xAA/8xAF as well and took some shots as identical to the NV40 shots that I could.

What I found really surprised me. While alone, the NV40 shots look great, when flipping through full screen captures of NV40 vs R3x00, we see what is really going on.

To really see this for yourself, I recommend downloading these to a folder and flipping through them in fullscreen mode. Viewing side by side images dont really give the full effect.

Here is the original NV40 shot, 4xAA/8xAF
Looks pretty good by itself.

http://stefanussen.home.comcast.net/UT2004-2.png[IMG]

This is my 9800NP -- 4xAA/8xAF
-- FPS shown

[IMG]http://stefanussen.home.comcast.net/My_UT2004-2.png[IMG]

Now, flip through these 2 images and you will see what I'm talking about. nVidia achieved this pseudo perfect anti-aliasing by blurring the bejebus out of their render. Notice especially the sniper rifle in the NV40 and 9800NP. If I may quote the UT2004 Announcer, "Holy Shit!"

Now, just to add insult to injury, I loaded up my 9800NP render up in photoshop and performed the following operations

Gaussian Blur: 0.3 pixels
Contrast: +10

The result is [b][i]disturbingly[/i][/b] similar (the blurred photoshopped one is STILL a bit clearer) to the original NV40 shot, try flipping through the original shot and this one

[IMG]http://stefanussen.home.comcast.net/My2_UT2004-2.png[IMG]

And just for kicks, I took another 9800NP shot at 6xAA/8xAF, note FPS

[IMG]http://stefanussen.home.comcast.net/My3_UT2004-2.png[IMG]

Just my opinion, but unless R420 bombs like GFFX5800U, think I may be sticking with ATi, who doesnt use blur filters in their cards, uses Trilinear filtering, and doesnt replace shaders. :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but you ATi people are seriously getting to be jaw droppingly bias. The godamn card isn't even released, these screenshots are "Apparently" from an nv40. The FSAA scheme they mentioned: [quote]RGMSAA + edge blurring with a mask[/quote]

This is what the Rampage was suppose to have. Unless your completely mindless fanboyism is going to make you think nvidia photoshopped pictures to release on an internet forum from a guy from sweden: You really need to check your head. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Vagrant Zero
I'd like to point out that this thread is suffering from a near fatal case of 'full of shitness'. Not only do we NOT have any confirmation that the pics posted by Veggeto are in fact from the NV40

According to a friend of mine in a position to know, those are legit, nVidia's aware of the leak, and steps have already been taken to squelch it.
 
According to a friend of mine in a position to know, those are legit, nVidia's aware of the leak, and steps have already been taken to squelch it.

They're going to flood B3D's server with gay pr0n?
 
Originally posted by Vagrant Zero
They're going to flood B3D's server with gay pr0n?

No, the person or persons responsible for the leak will probably be let go.
 
Originally posted by RS3RS
You should get your eyes checked :p


Personally, I think the NV40 pics look nicer. Just wish they showed the FPS...

its either the liquor talking or im seeing things right...but ive spent the last 15 mins looking for shit and god dammit i cant really tell no difference...they both look good..so what if one edge is a little jaggie...like your really gonna fuckin notice it in UT...please..either way if the pic is legit...the NV40 is looking like itll get my cahs....as long as some things are cleared up...ill wait for a 3rd part non biased review thank you.
 
I just don't like the blurring of the whole image. The edge AA looks sweet.

I can hardly wait for 3rd party head2head.
 
Originally posted by skritch
Companies don't generally have an, "it's okay if you leak just a little" policy.
So is your friend going to get fired for leaking this info to you? :eek:

I'm waiting until official reviews.
 
The color in the nV shot looks richer, and the AA is better than in the ATi shot. Look at the far end of the hall, the edge of the floor in the Ati shot stil has visible jaggies (even in 6X mode), but in the nV shot, it is very clean. Also check out the joints between the panels on the left, nV looks better.

I can't find a jaggie anywhere with nV.
 
I have not read the B3D thread that this stems from. But just looking at the pictures as a whole, I tend to like the nV pictures more... They just look better to me.

Personally, I do not care at all how they make the screen look good. I only care that it does indeed look good.

Now I will just wait for the most important thing.... The FPS.
 
i dont have photoshop, otherwise id do this myself, but could someone transpose the 9800 screens on top of the nv40 screens?

and remember to make the 9800 screens a little transperent so we can see the nv40 screen underneath ;) :p
 
Guys, there are peeps who like fullscreen antialiasing.

I've always been a sucker for `80s pr0n, where every photograph looked like it was shot with a lens that was smeared in pig-grease. And there too, they tended to add a rose coloured lens and enchance the colour to make people not look a green or yellowish "simpsons" hue (AKA digital vibrance)

For gaming though, I prefer edge-aliasing only and the crisper textures, and leave it up to my 17/20 eyes to blur the picture for me naturally. For that matter I'm not a huge fan of using to much AA either ;)

Between the two, I think the ATi still looks better.
 
Originally posted by DocFaustus
Personally, I do not care at all how they make the screen look good.

so its ok if they take a shit on the screen and then smudge it? :rolleyes:
 
look at the ceiling lights, the "nv40" lights look more natural...............
 
Between the two, I think the ATi still looks better.
I'll agree with that, the texture detail seems to be more crisp (look at the cracks in the ceiling and the funk on the far wall), although the edges are certainly not as well antialiased. Really it's a matter of personal preference, and looking at screenies is no substitute for seeing it in motion.

I think people should calm down, it's obvious that this is an extrapolative exercise based on unconfirmed leaked screenies.

There's no point in getting worked up over it really.
 
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