NVIDIA & Multi-display Gaming Editorial @ [H]

[Dethred]

Very balanced article. I'll be right there behind any boycott of Nvidia if they try any funny business. Hell, I'm practically there already. I've only owned 3 Ati cards in 10 years, and about 10 Nvidia cards... but I have had enough with their business practices.

 

[inglewood78]

Atvidia, nViATI, I don't give a shit. I open my wallet for great tech at a decent cost.

 

[Bgrngod]

My head almost explodes at the idea of multi-screen or wrap-around displays with 3D going on at the same time.

Do.

Want.

 

[oldpablo]

Meh, you won't catch me wanting to wear another pair of glasses. One's bad enough.

 

[Uncle]

Ive kept my ASUS agp-v5500/32M(TVR) with 3D glasses as keeps sakes for times gone by. Would these be the same glasses that Nvidia is touting as new technology other then upping the refresh rate to 120 hz. Its getting harder to find material on the net.

 

[iTYPE]

Does anybody really think this stuff is gonna be mainstream say ... 3,5 years from now ? I mean, I'm seriously depressed at the fact that this is pc gamings next big thing. In my opinion it's a sorry ass effect from a stalled market.

 

[XMAN245]

Because Nvidia probably paid them? What do you think happens when a game has the "Plays best on.." stuff on it? They got paid to put it there, buddy.

Its put on there because with Card X by maker Y it runs better. Why the hell do you think Core2 also gets the same labeling? Sure as FUCK isn't because Intel paid them to put it there, its because it true.

 

[Uncle]

Does anybody really think this stuff is gonna be mainstream say ... 3,5 years from now ? I mean, I'm seriously depressed at the fact that this is pc gamings next big thing. In my opinion it's a sorry ass effect from a stalled market.

For the life of me I can't remember why the 3d didn't take off in the mid to late 90s other then people complained about headaches and nausea caused by wearing the glasses because the refresh rate of the glasses were too low.That didn't bother me, I guess the novelty wore thin pretty fast, nvidia as I remember just let it die and the money I spent was a waste.Hey if recycling old tech with new keeps me from vomiting I might try it again.

 

[XMAN245]

Does anybody really think this stuff is gonna be mainstream say ... 3,5 years from now ? I mean, I'm seriously depressed at the fact that this is pc gamings next big thing. In my opinion it's a sorry ass effect from a stalled market.

Go back to your console forum.

 

[xeddex]

Well when I saw the [H] story that NV was bringing out multidisplay gaming my first 2 thoughts were "that's natural; especially since ATI has gotten so much buzz" and "I swear to god if NV pulls the same proprietary bullshit on this I'll never buy another product from them ever again. I really mean it."

I sincerely hope that NV is smart enough not to try it but I'm not holding my breath, given their history.

I'm also going to go out tomorrow and pick up a brand new torch. I get the feeling I may be needing it.

 

[kumquatsrus]

great article that i didn't find it biased at all; seems pretty level-headed to me since it offered both excitement for the announcement while stating concern for possible anti-competitive abuse that a company in a position to do so might take advantage of, which obviously isn't unheard of. trying to prevent such actions from happening in the first place is only natural from the perspective of a consumer.

Does anybody really think this stuff is gonna be mainstream say ... 3,5 years from now ? I mean, I'm seriously depressed at the fact that this is pc gamings next big thing. In my opinion it's a sorry ass effect from a stalled market.

dunno, hard to say. i think these kind of things will still remain a niche unless the barriers of entry come down dramatically for most people. i think they are still a natural progression for more immersive gaming experiences, which is ultimately what someone like me might be looking for. as far as 3d as it is currently implemented, whether that ever takes off remains to be seen, but alot of companies seem to have a vested interest in making it happen this year, at least according to the products coming out of ces 2010. motion controls also seem to be making a big push on not just the consoles but the pc as well, as evidenced by the sixense/ razer/ valve collaboration at the ces show.

what exactly would you like to see in terms of pc gamings "next big thing" that would excite you? all i can say is that the gaming market is definitely changing in many ways. whether it's for better or worse still remains to be seen.

 

[SixtyWattMan]

Its put on there because with Card X by maker Y it runs better. Why the hell do you think Core2 also gets the same labeling? Sure as FUCK isn't because Intel paid them to put it there, its because it true.

You best be trolling...

 

[compres]

You best be trolling...

I think intel gives "marketing support" LOL.

 

[housecat]

Its put on there because with Card X by maker Y it runs better. Why the hell do you think Core2 also gets the same labeling? Sure as FUCK isn't because Intel paid them to put it there, its because it true.

Wrong answer spanky.

It's there because they sponsored the label one way or another. This is why the "publisher" decided to lock out ATI from standard DirectX AA calls.

Money talks after all. But, that also means you are a fool if you choose to decide to support a company that opposes sharing code written that calls standard DirectX functions which everyone's hardware supports. I'd hate to imagine a world where they're the last GPU design house left.

 

[MrLonghair]

Hey XMAN, shouldn't you be on Beyond3d getting told to hush up by administrators, moderators and people in the industry who actually knows what's going on right now?

Does anybody really think this stuff is gonna be mainstream say ... 3,5 years from now ? I mean, I'm seriously depressed at the fact that this is pc gamings next big thing. In my opinion it's a sorry ass effect from a stalled market.

Multi-display usage in the *finity way has a much better chance at becoming as mainstream as a games console than 3D Vision/polarize glasses 3D, or my statistics on people who can handle several hours of this 120hz tech with no ill effect is seriously wrong.

 

[Morphy]

Its put on there because with Card X by maker Y it runs better. Why the hell do you think Core2 also gets the same labeling? Sure as FUCK isn't because Intel paid them to put it there, its because it true.

Funny you brought up Intel as an example, the same company that's been fined by the EU for antitrust violations ie kickbacks.

As for it running better, it should run better period not just on games designated as TWIMTBP ( and in some cases that isnt even true).
I mean if a gpu is deemed to be superior it won't need a TWIMTBP splashed on the main screen to tell me that it runs better than the other gpu...UNLESS that 'superiority' comes by way of vendor id lockouts.

 

[l0x]

For god’s sake NVIDIA, if you pull this bullshit where 3D Surround "games" will not work on Eyefinity configurations, we are going to beat NVIDIA down repeatedly and publicly for harming the PC gaming industry. Keep those crappy proprietary PhysX policies, but if you start messing with OUR multi-display gaming and not letting it remain "open platform," I will personally lead the mob with the burning torches to the castle gates. And we will be fully prepared to use the torches. I will personally lead a boycott of NVIDIA products if I see NVIDIA harm multi-display gaming in the marketplace through an IP grab. Multi-display gaming belongs to gamers, not NVIDIA.

Thats right! Mr. Bennett, I will be right behind you.
Eyefinity has grabbed my attention here and I can't wait to see what NVIDIA brings to the table.

 

[jwalk6]

I wouldn't worry too much about Nvidia trying to monopolize any graphics advancement.
If Nvidia's "new" multi-monitor technology works on cards going on 2 years old it means
that somewhere in the R and D stage it was included but not developed probably due to the
marketing geeks that said nobody would care.

PhysX? Who cares, Didn't stop anyone from enjoying the experience on an ATI card, not really.
The consumer will drive the acceptance of technology not any one company's marketing schemes or IP claims.

I remember trying to play Test Drive Unlimited with SLI enabled on my old 8800GT 320's and it was unplayable. I Put in the 4870 and it was fine. Atari refused to fix the problem and now the game collects dust on millions of shelves with many owners swearing to never buy anything that favors one vendor over another again. If Nvidia or ATI try to pull anything that forces developers to go one way or the other it will blow up in their face. Tweaks are fine but Draconian tactics won't be tolerated.

 

[Uncle]

Thats right! Mr. Bennett, I will be right behind you.
Eyefinity has grabbed my attention here and I can't wait to see what NVIDIA brings to the table.

I'm not waiting to see what Nvidia brings to the table,its been over a year. I see the potential of multi monitors and Eyefinity not only for gaming but being used with your home made holiday videos,pictures and if you can add 3D to that, I can see a WoW factor. To be able to surround yourself without stretching the media source.Theirs a potential of a whole new industry happening. Or I could just be dreaming.

 

[housecat]

If Nvidia or ATI try to pull anything that forces developers to go one way or the other it will blow up in their face. Tweaks are fine but Draconian tactics won't be tolerated.

Nvidia did, and does, in the past few months. ATI, has not. So why not drop your support of Nvidia's draconian tactics today, go red. I'm a longtime NV diehard, made the switch and it's better over here. In fact, NV will benefit from ATI's recent work when they finally release their FergiFX vaporware. Good for them. But no cash from this guy. Can't wait for the 5000 refresh.

 

[mike82]

...I remember trying to play Test Drive Unlimited with SLI enabled on my old 8800GT 320's and it was unplayable. I Put in the 4870 and it was fine. Atari refused to fix the problem and now the game collects dust on millions of shelves with many owners swearing to never buy anything that favors one vendor over another again. If Nvidia or ATI try to pull anything that forces developers to go one way or the other it will blow up in their face. Tweaks are fine but Draconian tactics won't be tolerated.

it could also be the driver support (the more benchmarked games getting patched/hotfixed, while the unpopular ones don't) or lack thereof. and let's not forget the game detection in the drivers, where the drivers when detecting a game or bench suite will lower quality levels to up the framerate (look up quake3/quack3 or the 3dmark fiasco for ati and nvidia)

 

[SixtyWattMan]

Oye vay, more of that B:AA AA stuff. Eidos made the dicsion not not allow ATI to reuse the code Nvidia developed for a game engine THAT NEVER FUCKING HAD SUPPORT FOR AA FROM THE START. ATI is completely free to do their own code and help them verify it works without issue. I could see this as an issue if a game engine had AA support from the start, but in this case, UE3 never freaking had it til Nvidia wrote the damn code or it.

How naive can you get? Do you really think nvidia or any company has your interests in mind and just their bottom line? They paid rocksteady to put their logo and implement hardware PhysX into the game and in order to get the money they have to do what nvidia says, and they WANT the money trust me.

 

[risqu3]

Its put on there because with Card X by maker Y it runs better. Why the hell do you think Core2 also gets the same labeling? Sure as FUCK isn't because Intel paid them to put it there, its because it true.

LLLLOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

 

[B^gD^ddy~CF~]

Wow way to go Kyle! I could really feel the rage in that last bit Good work Mr. Bennett.

 

[Raiden911]

damn straight Mr. Bennett.

Thx for the info.

 

[Nuby1Canuby]

I hope these comments from Tom's hardware news, on Nvidia surround vision are incorrect:
The hardware needed inside your gaming machine isn't as simplified as AMD and the Radeon 5000 series cards that can power three displays on one card. The Surround setup requires two Nvidia cards in SLI; The demo on the show floor was running two "Next Generation" GF100 GPUs. One GPU powers the left and center displays, and the other powers the right display.

That is really bad news for the mid-range if you need SLI for it.

 

[RamonGTP]

nvm

 

[compres]

Well they are adding the feature as an afterthought. The ATI chips have hardware dedicated to run the 6 displays. This is something they planned since very early in the chip design so it's only natural they have a more elegant and convenient solution than nVidia in terms of multi-monitor support.

 

[Deusfaux]

there is so way I would ever think of eyefinity as anything more than a gimmick as long as it requires monitors bezels breaking up the view. completely unacceptable.

 

[RamonGTP]

i can see how bezels may bother some people but I don't see it as that big of a deal. My main monitor will be my center, that's where my focus is. Left and right are for peripheral vision. For that purpose, the bezels aren't that big of a deal. You're not focusing on an area the entire length of your desk, and frankly, you probably wouldn't want to unless you're several feet away.

 

[jwalk6]

it could also be the driver support (the more benchmarked games getting patched/hotfixed, while the unpopular ones don't) or lack thereof. and let's not forget the game detection in the drivers, where the drivers when detecting a game or bench suite will lower quality levels to up the framerate (look up quake3/quack3 or the 3dmark fiasco for ati and nvidia)

When I say UNplayable I'm not talking about a few dropped frames or a freeze. It was like trying to play it on a 5 year old laptop with Intel graphics.

The reviews at the time flat out said the game was written with a bias towards ATI cards. I saw it in real life.

Nvidia did, and does, in the past few months. ATI, has not. So why not drop your support of Nvidia's draconian tactics today, go red. I'm a longtime NV diehard, made the switch and it's better over here. In fact, NV will benefit from ATI's recent work when they finally release their FergiFX vaporware. Good for them. But no cash from this guy. Can't wait for the 5000 refresh.

I was actually quite impressed with the 4870 (512MB) I had as it equaled and in some cases beat my 8800GT 320's in SLI. I didn't like the heat it put out but it was less than 2 of those 8800's! To be honest though, I was always disappointed with ATI cards before the 4000 series.

I wouldn't buy anything right now. I don't have a preference for either vendor but I'd like to see what the landscape looks like around June.

 

[pedalhead]

If nothing else, this all contributes towards now being a very exciting time to be a pc gamer. With all the years of talk about pc gaming dying, this could be just the shot in the arm it needs...a usp for our platform.

I think the 3dfx sli reference in Kyle's article was a good one, though for me I'd recall the actual move from software rendering to a single 3dfx voodoo card, which totally blew my mind back in the days of dialup quake play. Maybe I'm just getting caught up in the hype, but I've got a 2nd 5850 and two more 24" monitors arriving next week so I can see what all the fuss is about.

Thanks for the Eyefinity coverage so far, K. There must be so many people researching this stuff at the moment, undecided whether to spend the money just yet, and the [H] coverage has been amongst the best. I'm really looking forward to your crossfire eyefinity thoughts too. Cheers.

 

[trophaeum]

here fucking here, iv been an nvidia fanboi since the riva 128 all the way upto the gtx's, but this time round, they just didnt have what amd/ati had to offer, hence 5870 in my box as i type and the matching card to go xfire arriving this week, if nvidia does this ill be there with ya's burning a bunch of old nvidia cards iv kept around because i was proud to have owned them (riva128, tnt, tnt2 ultra, gf2 GTS!!!! before it got renamed, got it the day it was available even)

eyefinity or any version of it is definantly something to be seen to be believed, its not for your mainstream market but wow it gives you an impressive experience.

as for 3d gaming, how many times have we tried this already? it just never works right and i doubt it will anytime too soon, im sure we have the tech but i doubt many games will implement it right etc so i just dont see it being a big thing for a while, multimonitor with bezel correction taken into account though... drool

reading this thread though, it seems that the radeons dont support having the eyefinity monitors split over cards atm, damm, going to have to mess with displayport shit it would seem haha oh well ill sort it out either way since im intending to goto the full 6 monitor setup as well so this should be 'fun'

vendor lockin not good, been there, done that, never again, glide anyone?

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

From all that I read, nVidia never claimed the IP on the code. nVidia provided code that worked fine for their cards, and used a vendor-id block to ensure it was only enabled on systems they had QA'd the code on, namely their own. Rocksteady merely said "We don't want to touch their code, please provide us with some that you have QA'd to work".

What you read, was damage control after Nvidia got caught cheating. The code wasn't disabled on ATI systems. It was running with performance penalty writing useless depth values to alpha. You see, the vendor-id block was in the end of the code, not in the beginning as one would expect if QA was an issue. Nvidia wasn't preventing the code to run on ATI systems, but they were preventing ATI systems to get any benifit from it and made sure ATI still got the performance penalty from Nvidia's code.

DirectX code is supposed to be working on hardware that supports directx. Thats the whole idea. Its not Nvidia's private base of cheat codes. Gamers recent cheaters and prefer fair play. It doesn't matter how hard you try to explain how many hours (or money) you put into cheating and therefore deserve to cheat. You're still a cheater.

Lets hope they don't pull a fast one on multi-monitor gaming as well!

Nvidia's addition to multi-monitor gaming can be a very positive thing for gamers. The user base becomes much broader and developers have more incentive to support 3 screens. As Kyle mentioned, 3D surround (nFinity was much better IMO) is going to work on excisting SLI setups. That means that current SLI owners automatically gains multi-monitor capabilities! As a side effect, some Nvidia users might not feel so strong need anymore to downplay multi-monitor gaming, since both ATI and Nvidia offer it. Should increase acceptance for it.

In addition, with larger userbase, we might see even more thin bezel screens. After all, the market for such will be much bigger.

I for one welcome Nvidia into multi-monitor gaming!

 

[SnowBeast]

Nvidia's addition to multi-monitor gaming can be a very positive thing for gamers. The user base becomes much broader and developers have more incentive to support 3 screens. As Kyle mentioned, 3D surround (nFinity was much better IMO) is going to work on excisting SLI setups. That means that current SLI owners automatically gains multi-monitor capabilities! As a side effect, some Nvidia users might not feel so strong need anymore to downplay multi-monitor gaming, since both ATI and Nvidia offer it. Should increase acceptance for it.

In addition, with larger userbase, we might see even more thin bezel screens. After all, the market for such will be much bigger.

I for one welcome Nvidia into multi-monitor gaming!

I for one don't welcome Nvidia to the Multi-monitor gaming. The asses have had this tech and never improved on it to making it possible on 1 graphics card. Nvidia only had interests in this field when ATI launched Eyefinity and it started taking off. This was not in their "Original" plans which is quite obvious by the way you HAVE to HAVE SLI. I highly doubt SLI user base is really that big, and I don't want to shell out money for another card that isn't DX11 and for a PSU to support it. This alone will give even more support to ATI. If I was ATI, I would pounce all over this SLI crap to run a Tri-monitor set up. This GTX260 216 in my system probably my last nVidia card. When the 5890 comes out around Fermi launch, thats the card I will get.

SLI

 

[Kowan]

Was the camera crew not allowed to film the projector 3D section?

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

I for one don't welcome Nvidia to the Multi-monitor gaming. The asses have had this tech and never improved on it to making it possible on 1 graphics card. Nvidia only had interests in this field when ATI launched Eyefinity and it started taking off. This was not in their "Original" plans which is quite obvious by the way you HAVE to HAVE SLI. I highly doubt SLI user base is really that big, and I don't want to shell out money for another card that isn't DX11 and for a PSU to support it. This alone will give even more support to ATI. If I was ATI, I would pounce all over this SLI crap to run a Tri-monitor set up. This GTX260 216 in my system probably my last nVidia card. When the 5890 comes out around Fermi launch, thats the card I will get.

SLI

Nvidia never had any obligations in supporting 3 screens. That they support it now, is a bonus. Perhaps you are right that ATI had to launch Eyefinity in order for Nvidia to support multi-monitor gaming, but thats the beauty of healthy competition. Though I am angry when Nvidia steps over the line and forgets the concept of healthy competition and fair play, I am still happy that we have Nvidia. We need Nvidia and we need ATI. Its a consumer WIN that there is competition to drive our hardware and games to perform better and give us new features.

But, if they continue with vendor-id block and crap like that, we don't need Nvidia anymore in its current state and should boycott them until they have no other choice then to play fair and not screw gamers.

Nvidia supporting multi-monitor gaming instead of downplaying it because the don't have it, is a welcome move. Regardless if you have Nvidia or ATI hardware, you as consumer benifit from this.

 

[Covert Weasel]

Not sure if anyone has asked this yet. If one card is running 2 displays and the other card is running 1, wouldn't the card driving one display be capped at the FPS of the card driving two? Seems like if you dish out a lot for SLI for three monitors, one of your cards will be largely underutilized, if my concern is correct.

 

[AtkinS]

so this means nvidia have brought nothing "new" this round then.

They just used two old techs and used them at the same time.

feels like they figured out eyefinity wasnt a gimmick then ?

 

[Little_4nic8er]

What is this talk about nvidia now making multiscreen gaming proprietary ATI came out with it first so I would be watching ATI.

Is Crossfire proprietary? How about SLI?

I'd vote Nvidia would be the one to play dirty pool here.