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NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 Spotted with Missing ROPs, Performance Loss Confirmed

ZeroBarrier said:
I didn't mean to imply ignore everything they say or to ignore them using the ignore feature. Just the post he's quoting me like I said something controversial or even outside the realm of reality.
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Ah, got ya.
 
ZeroBarrier said:
They are a corporation. As a corporation, they don't account, nor do they care if a consumer notices or not. It's simple math, if the cost of replacing the defective units is less than a recall, they will sell them and deal with the replacements as they come. No nefarious intent needed.
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What you described is a psychopath behaviour. Nvidia is a corporation - a psychopath legal person.
 
pioruns said:
What you described is a psychopath behaviour. Nvidia is a corporation - a psychopath legal person.
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While I agree with you, Capitalism states that any company's ONLY goal is to create value for its shareholders.

The only reason a company will sometimes follow the law is because in rare cases the enforced ramifications for breaking the law are more costly than the money saved/earned from avoiding compliance.

Legally, a company HAS to do everything in it's power to return value to shareholders. If shareholders find that a company did not do everything in their power to create value, then they can literally press charges against the company.

It sucks, and I wish the world didn't work this way, but that's the game.
 
pioruns said:
NVIDIA 5xxx is the inferior product here. Look at the GN video just above.
Radeons had any reliability issues lately? No. I'd rather have slower GPU, than broken/fake/paper-launched/overpriced or on fire.
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Honstly, Nvidia these last two generations has reminded me a lot of the last seven intel generations. Where AMD was nipping on their heels and the only way they 'competed' was by juicing the TDP and power to the max in order to stay ahead.

Which eventually led to the 14900K... a processor with a 100% customer failure rate; and losing anyway to the much much more efficient 7800X3D at least in gaming, and the 7950X in most production workloads.

Nvidia is on the same track, by juicing up the power of their cards every gen, from 450w on the 4090 (already crazy high) to now what, 600w on the 5090?

They have virtually no improvements architecturally, its all just pumping more power into the silicon. All its going to take is one little push before the pendulum could start to swing the other way.
 
Sindalis said:
Honstly, Nvidia these last two generations has reminded me a lot of the last seven intel generations. Where AMD was nipping on their heels and the only way they 'competed' was by juicing the TDP and power to the max in order to stay ahead.

Which eventually led to the 14900K... a processor with a 100% customer failure rate; and losing anyway to the much much more efficient 7800X3D at least in gaming, and the 7950X in most production workloads.

Nvidia is on the same track, by juicing up the power of their cards every gen, from 450w on the 4090 (already crazy high) to now what, 600w on the 5090?

They have virtually no improvements architecturally, its all just pumping more power into the silicon. All its going to take is one little push before the pendulum could start to swing the other way.
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Well hoping AMD does it again against Nvidia in time.

Disappointing that RT performance is stagnant, just pump endless amounts of giga rays during the 20 series, lol. Here we are 4 generations and MFG supposed to be the answer to performance.

When RT comes on its own, meaning making a significant good difference, just not looking different, like in path tracing iq improvement, even a 5090 cannot do it effectively. So what are most folks going to do? Run the game at 15fps and use MFG at 4x? That would be a good experience, not really. My point, that road has led to the highest increases in pricing to support features still many today just turn off or find another game that runs better if they can’t. You could double the processing ability from the 5090 and real RT would tank it. While maybe more usable, but still limiting without gimmicks, with even higher prices.

Nvidia endless promises are broken over and over again.
 
ZeroBarrier said:
Another one for my ignore list. Tells me to educate myself while providing me a link to a movie. A piece of media content dramatized because they know it's the only way you'd watch their content to begin with.
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Good. I will be pleased to know that someone who doesn't recognize that a corporations are inherently evil in nature, won't engage with my posts. Less wasting time, more meaningful discussions with aware people, I am certain.
 
Sindalis said:
Honstly, Nvidia these last two generations has reminded me a lot of the last seven intel generations. Where AMD was nipping on their heels and the only way they 'competed' was by juicing the TDP and power to the max in order to stay ahead.

Which eventually led to the 14900K... a processor with a 100% customer failure rate; and losing anyway to the much much more efficient 7800X3D at least in gaming, and the 7950X in most production workloads.

Nvidia is on the same track, by juicing up the power of their cards every gen, from 450w on the 4090 (already crazy high) to now what, 600w on the 5090?

They have virtually no improvements architecturally, its all just pumping more power into the silicon. All its going to take is one little push before the pendulum could start to swing the other way.
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Completely agree. Nvidia has stopped innovating and hit a wall. They are pushing their products to a literal melting point (observed in reality😁), by increasing TDP further and further while real performance per watt is not changing much. They need to go back to the drawing board.
I am personally not comfortable running 600W card. Too much heat, noise, wasted electricity. Imagine how much power is wasted by such a monster GPU to increase framerate just slightly over GPU with 300W TDP.
 
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pioruns said:
Completely agree. Nvidia has stopped innovating and hit a wall. They are pushing their products to a literal melting point (observed in reality😁), by increasing TDP further and further while real performance per watt is not changing much. They need to go back to the drawing board.
I am personally not comfortable running 600W card. Too much heat, noise, wasted electricity. Imagine how much power is wasted by such a monster GPU to increase framerate just slightly over GPU with 300W TDP.
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Not much Nvidia can really do about how fast TSMC can shrink things down so I'm going to have to disagree that they stopped innovating. I'm more of the opinion that they've probably moved all their star engineers over to work on their enterprise products, since they're making money hand over fist in that market. It's probably interns and be B team engineers working on the gaming products now, leading to the questionable engineering choices like the lack of power load balancing on the 5090 when it clearly needs it, since it's power is supplied by a tiny connector running at max load with no safety margin.

I agree on not being comfortable running that 600w card though. It's a good thing I don't currently care about ray tracing. Next console cycle I'm sure it's going to be a lot more important.
 
KazeoHin said:
While I agree with you, Capitalism states that any company's ONLY goal is to create value for its shareholders.

The only reason a company will sometimes follow the law is because in rare cases the enforced ramifications for breaking the law are more costly than the money saved/earned from avoiding compliance.

Legally, a company HAS to do everything in it's power to return value to shareholders. If shareholders find that a company did not do everything in their power to create value, then they can literally press charges against the company.

It sucks, and I wish the world didn't work this way, but that's the game.
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since you seem to favor communism, why don't you just buy one of those north korean graphics card and avoid this whole fiasco?
 
Wat said:
But the drivers are so much better than amd...
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use to be, doesn't seem to be the case anymore. amd drivers are so good nvidia's trying to copy them but i hear that a lot of people are having problems with the "nvidia app". i've only been with amd for a little while now but haven't had any driver related issues.

IKV1476 said:
You are saying AMD had a card with a certain spec on paper but the actual card had missing or disabled hardware.
The 5090 SPEC says it should have 176 ROPS and this one only has 168. Disabled or missing hardware.
Show me where AMD had ROP = XXX but the actual hardware was YYY. Or any version of that.
This doesn't have anything to do with promised performance but usable hardware.
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yeah the funny thing is the only thing i can remember was being able to upgrade specs by unlocking cores or depending on the model of gpu, being able upgrade your graphics card to the next tier up by flashing the bios. and on the short lived vega series gpu's you could OC a 56 to get 64 level of performance. i think that's why they're artificially limiting some cards by TDP now. like the RX6800 (non-XT) only has +10% power adjustment when most of their other cards have +15%

bigdogchris said:
AMD for some reason has people in their GPU division that either can't or don't want to look at how successful their CPU revitalization has been regarding marketing and value.

It's more important than ever that Intel gets their GPU's off the ground to really begin competing in the mid to upper-middle tier. Hopefully at least the most of us normal users that don't need a 5090 can hope that drives better competition.
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i think they're doing all they can. which is why they're not even trying to go all out with this gen and waste time on a million different sku's that way they can put more effort into their next gen after that so it can be that much better. sounds like they have something big in the works. plus it won't be long before console companies are going to be wanting something truely next gen for PS6/Xbox (next?)

and it's funny what you're saying you wish Intel would do is exactly what AMD is doing now. AMD has something to compete with EVERY card nvidia has except the 5090. 7900XTX even nipping on the heels of 4090. and the raytracing performance got a massive boost between the 6000 and 7000 series. and none of their cards are using that stupid 12vHiPwr connector.

the Radeon cards of today are miles better than what they use to be, you just got to give them a chance. the only people still complaining about drivers are people that either never owned a radeon or owned one many many moons ago. that or they're current nvidia customers.
 
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zehoo said:
Not much Nvidia can really do about how fast TSMC can shrink things down so I'm going to have to disagree that they stopped innovating. I'm more of the opinion that they've probably moved all their star engineers over to work on their enterprise products, since they're making money hand over fist in that market. It's probably interns and be B team engineers working on the gaming products now, leading to the questionable engineering choices like the lack of power load balancing on the 5090 when it clearly needs it, since it's power is supplied by a tiny connector running at max load with no safety margin.

I agree on not being comfortable running that 600w card though. It's a good thing I don't currently care about ray tracing. Next console cycle I'm sure it's going to be a lot more important.
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I hope RT performance sucks less by the next console generation but I'm not holding my breath at the rate it's been going.

ZeroBarrier said:
Do me a favor, ignore whatever Vegas P11 said. I just looked at his post history and I'm shocked that I hadn't ignored this member before.
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ZeroBarrier said:
This comment says more about you, then it ever will about Nvidia.
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:rolleyes:
 
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KazeoHin said:
While I agree with you, Capitalism states that any company's ONLY goal is to create value for its shareholders.

The only reason a company will sometimes follow the law is because in rare cases the enforced ramifications for breaking the law are more costly than the money saved/earned from avoiding compliance.

Legally, a company HAS to do everything in it's power to return value to shareholders. If shareholders find that a company did not do everything in their power to create value, then they can literally press charges against the company.

It sucks, and I wish the world didn't work this way, but that's the game.
Click to expand...

Minor correction. They can sue. They can't press charges. It isn't a criminal proceeding but a civil proceeding.
 
with any other product, a bust like the 50 series could be catastrophic...but because AMD can never seem to be able to take advantage of Nvidia's missteps, this might just be a blip on the radar for Jensen Huang
 
polonyc2 said:
with any other product, a bust like the 50 series could be catastrophic...but because AMD can never seem to be able to take advantage of Nvidia's missteps, this might just be a blip on the radar for Jensen Huang
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Remember, Nvidia's problems are computer problems. AMD's problems are AMD problems.
 
Dan_D said:
Irrelevant since these cards do not exist.
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What? They mean 50x0 series not 5050 series.

50 series.jpg
 
kac77 said:
I think he meant since the cards are in low supply if you attempt to exchange it you're going to be waiting for quite some time.
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Nah, he said the cards don't exist which would mean no one has their hands on them.
 
wizzi01 said:
Nah, he said the cards don't exist which would mean no one has their hands on them.
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It was a joke. Availability of these cards is shit. This was a paper launch. Weeks in, availability of these things is still crap.

As someone who has been trying to buy one since release, these might as well not exist.
 
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Brackle said:
I planned to look right away when I get my 5080. If it's missing ROPS, I guess Gamers Nexus will pay +$500 of what I paid for it. That way I dont have to deal with the RMA lol.
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they were only doing that for one of them so they could test the performance. but it's worth a shot i guess?
 
erek said:
Missing ROPs Class Action eventually?
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Probably not, small number of GPUs affected (more than 0.5% obviously, but still small) and you can just replace the card to get it fixed.
Nvidia should put something in the app to detect GPUs with missing ROPs and notify the user. Being silent about it means there are probably thousands of people who will use these GPUs forever like this.

Imagine selling your card on Ebay in 5 years and the new owner is like "there's ROPs missing".
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
Probably not, small number of GPUs affected (more than 0.5% obviously, but still small) and you can just replace the card to get it fixed.
Nvidia should put something in the app to detect GPUs with missing ROPs and notify the user. Being silent about it means there are probably thousands of people who will use these GPUs forever like this.

Imagine selling your card on Ebay in 5 years and the new owner is like "there's ROPs missing".
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Nvidia has tools they use to test silicon. They had to have known before they shipped them. I mean they had the 0.5% answer ready to go.
They choose to ship them anyway. Damn meddling kids... I mean Techpowerup. Lets face it if GPUZ didn't exist no one would have ever noticed accept Nvidia, and you presume the AIBs who also run hardware test suites. Considering they have lied on this one at least 2 times we can prove... why are we accepting the 0.5% line as truth?
 
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ChadD said:
Nvidia has tools they use to test silicon. They had to have known before they shipped them. I mean they had the 0.5% answer ready to go.
They choose to ship them anyway. Damn meddling kids... I mean Techpowerup. Lets face it if GPUZ didn't exist no one would have ever noticed accept Nvidia, and you presume the AIBs who also run hardware test suites. Considering they have lied on this one at least 2 times we can prove... why are we accepting the 0.5% line as truth?
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Do you think there will be software engineered retribution against techpowerup / gpu-z going forward in terms of masking actual reporting via the drivers?

Bet that would be extremely hard to prove

Honestly between motherhood bios versions and driver updates and system reboots I have variances in my 3dmark timespy scores up to 3-4% +\-
 
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erek said:
Do you think there will be software engineered retribution against techpowerup / gpu-z going forward in terms of masking actual reporting via the drivers?

Bet that would be extremely hard to prove

Honestly between motherhood bios versions and driver updates and system reboots I have variances in my 3dmark timespy scores up to 3-4% +\-
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Going to have to do like the old days... and rename the GPUZ.exe to GeeseZ.exe /jk
I am sure Nvidia isn't a fan right now that's for sure. The 0.5% answer was just way to quick... if they didn't already have the data. How could they even know it was only 0.5% if ROPS were not tested in their validation suite. As it is 100% in their validation suite they knew and shipped them anyway. I was only half joking, Nvidia is acting like a scobby do villian.
 
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Missing ROPs aren't defects, but a feature. Can you just disable ROPs and not have driver and stability issues? I think this is how Nvidia tried to meet demand for the RTX 5090, by doing yet another GTX 970 and not telling anyone that some versions have missing ROPs, and hoped nobody would notice for a while. They had to have known that people will figure it out.
 
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ChadD said:
Going to have to do like the old days... and rename the GPUZ.exe to GeeseZ.exe /jk
I am sure Nvidia isn't a fan right now that's for sure. The 0.5% answer was just way to quick... if they didn't already have the data. How could they even know it was only 0.5% if ROPS were not tested in their validation suite. As it is 100% in their validation suite they knew and shipped them anyway. I was only half joking, Nvidia is acting like a scobby do villian.
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As I wrote way upthread: Inventory management failure. NVidia has always collected bad bin chips to use in weird low volume parts. Normally they end up in OEM systems (especially laptop where power budgeting matters) or Asian gaming cafe systems. The latter are especially common near the end of product life where the fine journalists at sites like WCCF tech will write breathless articles about what a card with only 5GB of ram instead of the normal 6 actually means.

Someone screwed up and sent the bins they were collecting these parts for those future cards into the main production supply chain. Once the mistake was discovered, it was strait forward to check and discover that the X thousand bad gpu dies that had been set aside for those variants are not sitting in storage where they were supposed to be, but were instead sent out with the standard variations.
 
DanNeely said:
As I wrote way upthread: Inventory management failure. NVidia has always collected bad bin chips to use in weird low volume parts. Normally they end up in OEM systems (especially laptop where power budgeting matters) or Asian gaming cafe systems. The latter are especially common near the end of product life where the fine journalists at sites like WCCF tech will write breathless articles about what a card with only 5GB of ram instead of the normal 6 actually means.

Someone screwed up and sent the bins they were collecting these parts for those future cards into the main production supply chain. Once the mistake was discovered, it was strait forward to check and discover that the X thousand bad gpu dies that had been set aside for those variants are not sitting in storage where they were supposed to be, but were instead sent out with the standard variations.
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Are you saying they have Homer Simpson working for them?
1740961171692.png
 
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