NVIDIA Demonstrates Issues with Non-Validated FreeSync Monitors at CES 2019

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by cageymaru, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Lol Nvidia, while you point at monitors there are three fingers pointing back at you.
     
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  2. Scooter70

    Scooter70 n00b

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    I miss the rant of the week. :(
     
  3. Dodge245

    Dodge245 Limp Gawd

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    With out spending too much time on it, you could potentially work out what is required from the 12 monitors that work:


    Acer XFA240, range 48-144Hz over DisplayPort, and 48-120Hz over HDMI. 1080P

    Asus MG278Q, range 42Hz-144Hz (https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Displays/ASUS-MG278Q-2560x1440-144Hz-FreeSync-Monitor-Review), Quad HD.

    AOC G2590FX, range 30Hz-146Hz (HDMI 1.4 / DP), 50~146Hz (D-SUB), 1080P

    ASUS vg258q, range 40Hz-144Hz using the DisplayPort or 50Hz-144Hz via the HDMI. 1080P



    Assuming that Nvidia tested these on both the HDMI and DP, then i would say anything in the 50-144 range is probably going to be fine, but i have not taken into account other factors.


    P.S

    I cant help but think, its more likely, out of 300 monitors, only 12 were willing to pay for Nvidia certification..
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  4. Delicieuxz

    Delicieuxz Gawd

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    I think there are a bunch of 75 hz FreeSync monitors that only do 60 hz with Nvidia GPUs, otherwise will have frame-skipping if the FPS goes higher. My HP Omen 32 monitor is one of them.

    Is it possible that the new Nvidia driver will fix that so that these monitors can do their full 75 hz with Nvidia GPUs without frame-skipping?
     
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  5. gamerk2

    gamerk2 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Digital is digital; as long as it meets bandwidth requirements there should be zero difference in output.
     
  6. gamerk2

    gamerk2 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I suspect NVIDIA doesn't have a mechanism to dynamically turn Gsync on and off based off monitor refresh rate; given Gsync works across a much wider VRR range, it wouldn't be shocking if most Freesync monitors don't meet Gsync spec.

    Personally? Freesync is a stopgap at best. 50Hz is about what you'd get if running just one GPU generation old, and many mid-range models can't even consistently meet that spec. I'm *hoping* HDMI 2.1's VRR implementation makes both Freesync and Gsync go away.
     
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  7. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Well practice doesn't agree with you. I've purchased 3 different dp cables none worked at QHD 144hz.Except the one supplied with the monitor.

    Digital signal is not that simple, there is voltage drop and signal degradation.
     
  8. ecuador

    ecuador Limp Gawd

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    It is simple in the sense it either works or it doesn't. Monster cable advertises things like "fluid motion, vivid colors" for their display cables and get away with it somehow...
     
  9. gamerk2

    gamerk2 [H]ard|Gawd

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    QED @ 144Hz has been supported as of DP 1.2; DP 1.0/1.1a don't meet the necessary bandwidth requirements. Either the cables you purchased weren't DP 1.2+ certified, or were defective. In any case, "gold plated cables" are just a waste of money; the signal is either going to get from A to B, or it isn't.
     
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  10. nightanole

    nightanole [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yup, sparkles and drop outs. Im shooting for a 3ft cable, as like you, any 9 footer didnt work. This has been a known problem with DP cables for a while.
     
  11. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    My Acer XR382CQK is a 75Hz freesync monitor. I run it currently with a 1080ti. It supports the full 75Hz without the need for FreeSync/VRR. Confirmed by both camera and multiple statements by Acer support team.
    I'm excited for this feature!
     
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  12. Tiburon1186

    Tiburon1186 Gawd

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    Is there a list of monitors they tested anywhere?
     
  13. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    Nobody reads anything anymore.

    It's in the press release linked in OP.
     
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  14. lostin3d

    lostin3d [H]ard|Gawd

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    I know there's a niche for nearly every kind of display but I'm sure there's a lot people who'd like to know how the VRR T.V.'s will fare with this.
     
  15. bonomork

    bonomork n00b

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    LG 34UC88/1080Ti here, 75Hz only with freesync enabled, but with frame skipping
     
  16. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    FFS, NVIDIA is not using Freesync on these monitors. They are using G-SYNC to interface with the Adaptive-Sync built into the monitor. You can't just compare an AMD card using Freesync on an Adaptive-Sync monitor to a NVIDIA card using G-SYNC on an Adaptive-Sync monitor and conclude that NVIDIA is purposefully messing things up to upsell people on a monitor with a FPGA when Freeysnc and G-SYNC are two completely different implementations. Even though Freesync is an open and royalty-free standard I don't believe NVIDIA will ever use it simply because it was developed by AMD and it has their name all over it.
    Well, if you're trying to demonstrate to people why some monitors do not meet your validation requirements then you're going to do it with the worst examples.
    There is no certification. It's validation. As in, NVIDIA is validating whether or not G-SYNC works properly. I agree with the rest of your post, though. I'm assuming 144 Hz is the minimum max refresh rate required. NVIDIA claims G-SYNC HDR supports refresh rates from 1 Hz and up, but we know the first 2 iterations of G-SYNC had a floor of 30 Hz.
    Not really. There is a specification to the cables and many companies, even those who are official adopters, still often do not manufacture cables to spec. When that happens is when you most often see issues.
    It's a common problem as you increase the bandwidth the cable is supposed to handle. It's why HDMI is recommending Ultra High Speed cables for HDMI 2.1 that need to carry 48 Gbps not be longer than 2 metres/6.6 feet.
     
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  17. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    Samsungs Q9, Q8 and Q6 series TVs support VRR of less than 20Hz @1080p !! and 48Hz @4K.
    At 1440p (favoured over 4K because it can run at 120Hz) VRR should be near 30Hz, good potential.
    The Q7 series dont support VRR according to Rtings, odd.
     
  18. Taldren

    Taldren Gawd

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    Thankfully I have a FreeSync monitor that can now benefit from AMD, Intel, and nVidia gpu's. Unless they artificially break them to show concerns with the technology.
     
  19. jnemesh

    jnemesh [H]ard|Gawd

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    Rtings is misinformed. VRR is on NU8000 series and up, including both the Q6 and Q7s (as well as the Q8 and Q9s...and the Q900R)
     
  20. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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  21. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    I thought it odd because they show it is on the Q6 but not the Q7.
    https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/q6fn-q6f-q6-2018
    https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/qled-q7f-q7
     
  22. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    They updated their review back in May last year, noting that Freesync support was added in Firmware 1103.
    upload_2019-1-9_9-59-40.png

    https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/q7fn-q7f-q7-2018
     
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  23. Jinto

    Jinto [H]ard|Gawd

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    Great, I think I have that exact 34"...got my hopes up.
     
  24. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  25. Creig

    Creig Gawd

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    Burning bridges seems to be a specialty of Nvidia these days.
     
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  26. Rahh

    Rahh [H]ard|Gawd

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    Every monitor they suggest with compatibility across the board is $1k+ in price...
     
  27. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    I had the same issue when choosing my Samsung TV. I had my buddies combing the internet to make sure I was making a good choice because RTings video and article conflicted on information last year.

    I bought one of these and I love it!

    Samsung QN55Q7CN CURVED 55” QLED 4K UHD 7 Series Smart TV 2018.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079YWBF4P/

    Also the Samsung 49" NU8000 doesn't have FreeSync from what I was able to gather. I bought this TV so I stopped researching it.
     
  28. sinisterDei

    sinisterDei Gawd

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    This is patently false. The very first monitor on the list, the Acer XFA240, is $200. Another, a nicer 27" panel, is $500. That's 2 of the first 3 monitors on the list.

    I think Nvidia is likely playing some crummy games with the 'compatibility' angle, but they should be attacked with facts not misinformation.
     
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  29. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    lol, good enough reason to cease.
    Yeah all the 49" screens have a 60Hz panel and lose many nice features on the 120Hz panel TVs.

    Great gaming monitor choice, these screens are awesome.
    I went with the same size Q9 cos its also used for TV and movies. (the anti reflective coating is a good plus for the living room)
    I would be just as happy gaming on a Q7.
     
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  30. jnemesh

    jnemesh [H]ard|Gawd

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  31. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    Acer XFA240 = $199.99
    Acer XG270HU = $389.00
    Acer XV273K = only currently available in Singapore
    Acer XZ321Q = $499.99
    Agon AG241QX = $338.24
    AOC G2590FX = $215.11
    ASUS MG278Q = $499.00
    ASUS XG248Q = $348.00
    ASUS VG258Q = ? (can't find it for sale anywhere)
    ASUS XG258 = $439.54
    ASUS VG278Q = $299.99
    BenQ XL2740 = $599.00

    Only one monitor on this list has the potential of being $1,000 USD or more when released stateside. The next most expensive one is $599.
     
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  32. Parja

    Parja [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Adaptive VSync <> VRR
     
  33. nightanole

    nightanole [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hate to piss in everyone's cheerios, but VRR is only going to work over DisplayPort. It is not going to work over nvidia's HDMI 2.0B connection. At no point did they say that HDMI was an option. On top of that, there is no DP to HDMI 2.0B adapters, because DP is 4 lanes, and HDMI 2.0B is 6 lanes (HDMI 2.0A is 3 lanes).

    HDMI is not currently supported but they do not rule out future support
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  34. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    Nooooooooooooooooo!
     
  35. viper1152012

    viper1152012 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'll update and try VRR to see how it goes and report back.
     
  36. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I have the same monitor, I hope so. I would switch back to Nvidia if it did.
     
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  37. Dodge245

    Dodge245 Limp Gawd

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    I know, give it time, I'll bet my bottom dollar it turns Into certification, the angle being that Nvidia can help monitor makers get vrr right.. then the prices of the monitors will rise as Nvidia charges for certification.


    On phone may be bad grammer/spelling.
     
  38. ecuador

    ecuador Limp Gawd

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    Dude, watch the video first. They say that NVIDIA explicitly told them that it was not an issue with G-Sync, but that AMD cards would exhibit the same behaviour. Well, they phrased it in a way "go ahead, try an AMD and you'll see", so you can't really take them to court, but still that's the NVIDIA claim - the uncertified monitors won't work properly period. It seems like they can get G-Sync to work on much fewer monitors than FreeSync currently, but don't want to own up to it.
     
  39. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well I just ordered a refurb Acer XF270HU 27" 1440p IPS freesync monitor. So it will be exciting to test this monitor to see if this works on this monitor. The particular model number is not on their short list of compatible devices, but a few Acers with model numbers close to this one are on the Nvidia approved list.
     
  40. Fleat

    Fleat Gawd

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    I will be patiently waiting for the enterprising folks out there to test and catalog monitors out there. I am sure we will end up with some sort of wiki as a helpful buyer's guide.

    Signal attenuation is a pita and even well made cables reach the limits far before most companies claimed distances. I ended up buying 65ft fiber optic HDMI cables to solve my issues [at a steep price]. They do 4K HDR at 4:4:4 without any problems.