noob with a shopping list :D

M

m4tthew

n00b
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
28
This is will be my first build and to be honest i dont know what the hell im doin in terms of choosing components, assembly, or setting up the "bios"?! and installing XP and i am requiring your help! :confused:

My current system is a laptop and here are the specs:
Its a travelmate 8204wlmi -
Intel core duo t2500 2.0 GHZ 667mhz fsb
Ati mobility radeon x1600 512mb hypermemory (256mb of dedicated gddr3 vram)
2gb ddr2

What i will be using it for:
I am an architecture student so i will be doing a lot of photoshop, illustrator, indesign, sketchup and cad packages. I will be doing some rendering on these models using ray-trace. Most likely all open at the same time and multitasking.

I game every so often but not interested at running the latest games or highest quality and resolution but i do have a 24 inch monitor which i use as a second monitor to my laptop.

My aim for this PC is for it to last 2-3 years for the nehalem chips to settle in and become mainstream. Bearing in mind that photoshop cs4 may come out with the feature of using the graphics card to make it quicker.

Like all people on their first build, the sheer amount of components availible makes it a very daunting task. I for one have been trying to decide upon parts for a computer for a number of years but opted for a laptop just to put it off.

So my first task is to decide upon key components to spend my hard earned cash and thats where you guys come in ;)

After reading extensively other peoples builds i have come up with a few suggestions and a few black holes.

Processor: Intel Quad Q6600 - Seems good bang for buck and can easily overclock.

Mobo: - ???

- IP45 is newer but is not fully tested on the masses?
- IP35 is older but the IP45 doesnt cost all that more...

Memory:

- at least 4GB (is it true xp only supports 3gb, i read somewhere that the lost gig is actually used by windows for other purposes)

- 800mhz or 1066mhz - confused me as some boards are 1066 but people get 800mhz memory? and then theres the "timings", the "multipliers" etc. Dont have clue about this one.

Graphics Card: Planning on getting a cheap one like the ati hd3850 or 3870 until photoshop cs4 comes out. Unless someone can argue otherwise... dont know if the gpu is used in rendering 3d models though.

Hard Drive The western digital caviar and the spinpoint f1 seems to be frequently recommended

CPU cooler Recommendations? Again too much choice!

DVD Burner Not really fussed about this one dont watch/write too many dvds tbh.

Is there anything else i have missed out besides the case and psu? ill figure them out another time as they seem less important.

Thanks for the help!
 
There's an FAQ that's stickied here in General Hardware that you should read (It's also in my sig). Should help you a bit.

Mobo: The IP45 isn't even out yet. So it's a non-issue. There are other P45 motherboards out there:
Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L Intel P43 Motherboard - $95
MSI P45 Neo3-FR Intel P45 Motherboard - $120
Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R Intel P45 Motherboard - $145
Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 Motherboard - $150
DFI Lanparty DK X38-T2R Intel X38 Motherboard - $185
Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 Intel X48 Motherboard - $225

Just to help you out: All of these motherboards have PCI-E 2.0 which may be useful for future GPU upgrades. If you don't need RAID, more than 6 SATA ports and only need semi-decent overclocking, check out the DS3L. If you need 8 SATA ports, RAID, 4 PCI slots, and legacy ports, then get the Neo3-Fr. If you don't need more than 6 SATA ports but want RAID, firewire, a second PCI-E x16 port, a second gigabit port, support for 16GB of RAM, optional eSATA, and high overclocks, then get the DS3R. If you like the DS3R but need 8 SATA ports, want an onboard pre-installed fast booting Linux setup or don't need a second gigabit port, get the Asus P5Q Pro. If you want Crossfire with full x16/x16 bandwidth, get the Lanparty DK X38.

RAM: All 32Bit OSes (Linux, XP, Vista) only support up to 3 to 3.5GB depending on the video card you have. 64bit version of those OSes can support 4GB of RAM and more. Don't worry about the timings and as for multipliers, that's a CPU related item. All of this is covered in the FAQ.

Anyway, for the Q6600, DDR2 800 is all that you need. Some math:
Stated FSB/4 = Actual FSB
Multiplier x Actual FSB = CPU Speed
1:1 Ratio: 2 x Actual FSB = RAM Speed
1:1 Ratio: FSB = 1/2 RAM speed

Multi x Actual FSB, Stated FSB, RAM Speed = Clock Speed
9 x 266Mhz, 1066Mhz, DDR2 533 RAM = 2.4Ghz <== Stock Speeds
9 x 333Mhz, 1333Mhz, DDR2 667 RAM = 3.0Ghz <== Good OC
9 x 400Mhz, 1600Mhz, DDR2 800 RAM = 3.6Ghz <== Excellent OC, About the Max

GPU: I recommend getting the HD4850 instead. It's simply one of the best bang for your buck video card out right now.

CPU Cooler: Get this:
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle HSF - $37 & Retention Bracket - $7

Hard Drive: Almost as fast as a Raptor drive so I recommend getting this drive:
Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $90

PSU: You're a bit misguided here: the PSU is VERY IMPORTANT in a PC. A PSU provides the power to the PC. If the PSU delivers unclean, disrupted, and constantly changing power to the PC, it can and will kill the PC over time. So never skimp on the PSU. So with that said, I recommend this PSU:
Corsair 750TX 750W PSU - $98

Case: Choose whatever you like and we'll critique it.
 
Okay...

- What's your budget?
- Which specific montior do you have?
- Do you plan on overclocking the machine?
- Which games do you plan on playing with this system?
- Have you checked out some of the other "help me build" threads yet?
 
m4tthew, take some time and answer all the questions tiraides asked as they are relatively critical for us to recommend parts on.

Also, Danny's recommendations are all spot on and will be reciprocated largely by most members here.
 
Danny Bui said:
The IP45 isn't even out yet. So it's a non-issue. There are other P45 motherboards out there:
Click to expand...

Sorry thats what i meant, p45 boards seem to be relatively new so comes with issues no? wherease the p35 have been around for a bit so the issues with them would have been ironed out.

Danny Bui said:
Just to help you out: All of these motherboards have PCI-E 2.0 which may be useful for future GPU upgrades. If you don't need RAID, more than 6 SATA ports and only need semi-decent overclocking, check out the DS3L. If you need 8 SATA ports, RAID, 4 PCI slots, and legacy ports, then get the Neo3-Fr. If you don't need more than 6 SATA ports but want RAID, firewire, a second PCI-E x16 port, a second gigabit port, support for 16GB of RAM, optional eSATA, and high overclocks, then get the DS3R. If you like the DS3R but need 8 SATA ports, want an onboard pre-installed fast booting Linux setup or don't need a second gigabit port, get the Asus P5Q Pro. If you want Crossfire with full x16/x16 bandwidth, get the Lanparty DK X38.
Click to expand...

-I'll prob only stick with one hard maybe upgrade later so will not be needing raid.
-firewire is not an issue as i dont use it.
-SATA ports i assume are the connectors to the hard drive?
-i want to overclock and heard that ds3l is, like you say, only semi-decent

Danny Bui said:
RAM: All 32Bit OSes (Linux, XP, Vista) only support up to 3 to 3.5GB depending on the video card you have. 64bit version of those OSes can support 4GB of RAM and more. Don't worry about the timings and as for multipliers, that's a CPU related item. All of this is covered in the FAQ.
Click to expand...

Is it worth getting 2x2gb sticks for xp then? dont a lot of people run 2x2gb on xp? would consider vista but just used to xp and heard bad things about vista? Has much changed since the service pack update?

Since im multi-tasking would more ram benefit me on vista 64bit?
 
Cheers for the quick replies Danny Bui, tiraides and gaiden! Ill try to answer you questions as best i can, here goes:

tiraides said:
- What's your budget?
Click to expand...

Im in the UK so my budget is meaningless to those over the atlantic but basically about £400 - £500... ($800-1000) bearing in mind that stuff generally costs more over here due to heavy taxes.

Just want something that is good bang for buck that will perform quite well. Not chasing top of the range and features that i may not end up using.

tiraides said:
- Which specific montior do you have?
Click to expand...

I have a benq fp241vw

tiraides said:
- Do you plan on overclocking the machine?
Click to expand...

Yeah not sure how to but would like have more processing power at stable settings

tiraides said:
- Which games do you plan on playing with this system
Click to expand...

None. Just play what i feel like.

tiraides said:
- Have you checked out some of the other "help me build" threads yet?
Click to expand...

Yeah i have but there are so with different configurations i thought id get some specific advice to my needs. Most of them seem like gaming rigs whereas i want mine more geared for adobe cs and rendering models.
 
So, running resolution of 1920 x 1200, I'd probably recommend either a GTX 260 or 4850 considering your budget is pretty small. Plus, i'm not sure what UK pricing is like.. any sites you are familiar with ?

Also, personally I'd recommend going with 4GB of ram (2x2GB) as well as Vista x64. It's seriously a winner and many others (including me) have had no problems with driver support or anything of the like. If you see my sig, no parts on there have had problems operating under Vista x64. Plus, speaking from experience, 4GB of ram + Q6600 OC'd a little to 3.0Ghz really does fly.

If you still don't believe me, check this recent thread out.

I would start giving recommendations but not knowing the prices of the components over there in the UK is holding me back. Plus, I would be recommending a lot of parts similar to what Danny has posted in his first post in the thread.
 
Take a look at scan.co.uk for prices there abouts.

So if i was to ask you what you would change from the system on you sig what would you say?

Are Patriot memory any good?
 
Using some of the parts you're considering as a guide, here's a setup that I built from Scan UK... VAT is included in all of the prices.

£27.95 - Gigabyte GZ-X1 ATX mid-tower case
£55.21 - Corsair VX550 550W PSU
£65.44 - Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L
£119.72 - Intel Q6600
£22.27 - Xigmatek HDT-S1283
£54.04 - Super Talent Twin 2x2GB DDR2 800 kit
£57.55 - Western Digital Caviar 640GB SATA HDD
£15.85 - Samsung SH-S223F/BEBE SATA DVD burner
£121.01 - Gigabyte HD4850
=====
£539.04 - Subtotal (not including shipping)

I know I busted your budget, but as you said, parts are pretty expensive. All of your Adobe products would work with your rig, but if you want to play the latest games on it, the HD4850 is the minimum you should be looking towards.

Omitting the CPU cooler (and foregoing overclocking the Q6600 at this time) would give you the most immediate savings... after that, you would be cutting corners with performance. Though if price is a concern for you, you could cut corners by dropping the CPU down to a dual-core like the E7200 and by purchasing a 2x2GB kit of RAM instead.
 
£27.95 - Gigabyte GZ-X1 ATX mid-tower case
£55.21 - Corsair VX550 550W PSU
£65.44 - Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L
£119.72 - Intel Q6600
£22.27 - Xigmatek HDT-S1283
£54.04 - Super Talent Twin 2x2GB DDR2 800 kit
£57.55 - Western Digital Caviar 640GB SATA HDD
£15.85 - Samsung SH-S223F/BEBE SATA DVD burner
£121.01 - Gigabyte HD4850
=====
£539.04 - Subtotal (not including shipping)
Click to expand...

I can get the q6600 retail kit for about £10 less

Though if price is a concern for you, you could cut corners by dropping the CPU down to a dual-core like the E7200 and by purchasing a 2x2GB kit of RAM instead.
Click to expand...
-Is that super talent good RAM? does it even matter? I dont plan on overclocking the ram only the cpu, or does it come together?
-Was thinking of dropping the graphics card as i really dont game all that much and dont mind low resolution gaming. Any suggestions? maybe the ati hd3850 or 3870 which will probably be £60 ish dont know about nvidia as i havent really been looking at them. So along the 60-70 mark what can i get?

Summary of comments and concerns :

£27.95 - Gigabyte GZ-X1 ATX mid-tower case - still up for grabs
£55.21 - Corsair VX550 550W PSU - any other suggestions - will i need 550W?
£65.44 - Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L - Whats the difference betwee P43 and P45?
£119.72 - Intel Q6600
£22.27 - Xigmatek HDT-S1283 - Read some good and bad things but if people vouch for it....
£54.04 - Super Talent Twin 2x2GB DDR2 800 kit - Not too keen on the name, sounds a bit cheap but again would it even matter?
£57.55 - Western Digital Caviar 640GB SATA HDD
£15.85 - Samsung SH-S223F/BEBE SATA DVD burner
£60-70 - Suggestions?

Second opinion?

Cheers :)
 
I suggest getting a power supply with at least 500 watts, and preferably one that has Active PFC and/or 80 Plus certification. You want some headroom for long-term usage as well as possible future upgrading.

For the case, make sure that whichever one you choose has adequate cooling, preferably support for 120mm fans. 120mm fans cool more and run quieter at the same speeds compared to 80mm or 92mm fans.

If you don't plan on overclocking, you could get lower speed (DDR2 667) RAM and you could omit the aftermarket CPU cooler (but make sure that you get a retail CPU kit with an HSF). You could also drop down to an HD 3850/3870 if you have no intentions of playing any of today's games. (With your 24 inch monitor, I recommend that you use a graphics card with HDCP support.) The NVIDIA equivalents to the HD3850 and HD3870 would be the 8800GS/9600GSO (they're basically the same card) and the 9600GT.

I admit that Super Talent was not my first choice in RAM... but the Corsair kit that I wanted to recommend to you was in pre-order status. Since you don't have to overclock RAM (in most case) along with Intel Core 2 processors -- you just need to have RAM that can run at the same speeds as the processor's FSB -- just about any type of RAM would do. Having said that, you should look for a well known "brand name" that has a good customer service record and offers a limited lifetime warranty on its RAM. Such "brand names" are Corsair, Crucial, A-DATA, G.Skill, Mushkin, OCZ, Patriot, PQI, and Kingston. (I forgot the full list of "brand names," but I really haven't heard of anyone having problems with Super Talent RAM... then again, I haven't researched much on that particular company.)

The P43 chipset supports PCI Express 2.0, which gives you options over the long term as to which video cards you could use. Right now, though, PCI-E 2.0 offers no immediate benefit as today's PCI-E 2.0 cards (which are backwards compatible with the x16 PCI-E 1.1 slot) don't utilize all of the available bandwidth provided by the PCI-E 1.1 bus. P45 supports dual x8 CrossFire (which supports only AMD/ATI video cards), which may or may not be useful to you if you decide to play games in the future.
 
If you don't plan on overclocking, you could get lower speed (DDR2 667) RAM and you could omit the aftermarket CPU cooler (but make sure that you get a retail CPU kit with an HSF)
Click to expand...

I only plan on OC'ing the CPU and not the ram... surely ill need a cpu cooler?
 
Yes. Intel's stock HSFs are designed nowadays only to keep the processors cool at stock speeds.

Believe it or not, the Xigmatek HSF I recommended earlier is one of the best around. But if you can't afford it right now, I suggest that you don't attempt to overclock the CPU until you get a decent HSF for it.
 
tiraides said:
Yes. Intel's stock HSFs are designed nowadays only to keep the processors cool at stock speeds.
Click to expand...

Actually I mildly OC my Q9450 to 3.1GHz (sometimes a bit higher) and the stock HSF is fine. (My case breaths really well) But for any serious OCing, I agree you need a much better HSF than stock.
 
m4tthew said:
My aim for this PC is for it to last 2-3 years for the nehalem chips to settle in and become mainstream. Bearing in mind that photoshop cs4 may come out with the feature of using the graphics card to make it quicker.
Click to expand...

In 2.5 years or so, Nehalem won't be mainstream, it will be obsolete as Sandy Bridge will have been released. ;)
 
msabo said:
Actually I mildly OC my Q9450 to 3.1GHz (sometimes a bit higher) and the stock HSF is fine. (My case breaths really well) But for any serious OCing, I agree you need a much better HSF than stock.
Click to expand...

One of the OP's key concerns is with stability. Without a decent HSF that is known to be able to handle the additional heat that an overclocked quad core processor puts out, I wouldn't recommend doing any overclocking at this time.

IIRC, the stock HSF could handle a slight overclock from a Q6600, but I still don't recommend doing so.
 
Sorry for such short posts but questions just come to me every so often...

Would people be able to use the current ATX cases for nehalem and sandy bridge? Im guessing they design for the cases that are one the market rather than expect the masses to change?

Just considering buying a better case to last...good idea?
 
A good case could last for years... but I don't know whether or not the current cases would work for Sandy Bridge.

Which case did you have in mind?
 
You mention that you want to overclock the CPU, so getting DDR2-800MHz RAM is what you want for the Q6600 - it's not much more than 667MHz but will allow you to overclock the CPU to 3.6GHz without overclocking the RAM, and that's about as high as Q6600s go. The 667MHz will limit you to 3.0GHz.

I'd be surprised if we switch from ATX any time soon - efforts to do so have pretty much entirely failed for anything except OEMs.

Partly the high prices over here are tax, but partly because we get ripped off ;) They're generally much more than 17.5% higher than US prices.
 
Hey mithent... any good site you recommend over here? It seems shopping in a few places will get you the best prices but delivery will make it quite even again.

Aria.co.uk seems pretty good for prices with the super specials.
 
So here goes, my shopping list has been compiled and i am posting it for scrutiny and criticism.



So what do you guys think...i did go over budget but that was never set in stone in the first place.

Fire Away!
 
m4tthew said:
Hey mithent... any good site you recommend over here? It seems shopping in a few places will get you the best prices but delivery will make it quite even again.

Aria.co.uk seems pretty good for prices with the super specials.
Click to expand...

I bought my system components from Overclockers.co.uk, who didn't have the best prices but had everything I wanted. I was going to buy some things from Scan, and some from Ebuyer, but the shipping costs from two companies made it too expensive.

Aria are good value if they've got what you want on offer, yes. Not the widest selection otherwise though, I've found.

System looks good to me!
 
Heres a list instead (For breakdown see Jpg above) :

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz 95W G0 Stepping (Retail 775)

Xigmatek HDT-S1283 (H.D.T.) 120mm PWM Fan x3 Heat-pipe LGA775/K8/AM2 Cpu cooler Quad Core Ready

Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L, iP43 Express, S 775, PCI-E 2.0 (x16), DDR2 1600/ 1200/1066/800, SATA II, ATX

Patriot 4GB PC2-6400 C4 Extreme Performance

PowerColor HD 4850 512MB GDDR3 Dual DVI HDTV Out PCI-E Graphics Card

Samsung HD502IJ SpinPoint F1 500GB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 16MB Cache - OEM

550w Corsair VX Series PSU, ATX, PS/2

Antec Nine Hundred 900 - Gaming Case with 200mm Top Fan - No PSU

Cost: £550.52

What do you think?
 
Is a Visiontek HD4850 available to you? If so, go with that company over Powercolor. Visiontek has a lifetime warranty and supposedly better support then the other ATI manufacturers.

Other than that, looks good to me.
 
So if i dont plan on overclocking the ram and 800mhz is fine for the q6600 on air then shall i spend the extra on RAM?

Cheers for getting back to me...:D
 
What extra? no, get the DDR2-800 RAM. :p You won't notice a difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, the difference is negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency.
 
I agree with Enginurd. ANY cheap set of DDR2 800 RAM will be fine for the Q6600.
 
would extra ram be useful for large photoshop files ?about 500mb files ? A few open at the same time?

Or am i better saving some money?
 
Yeah extra RAM might be useful.

Just make sure that you have a 64bit OS to make use of all 4 to 8GB of RAM.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top