non-free email - food for thought

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TehQuick

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I just wanted to share some thoughts about the requirement to provide non-free email

1) not everyone posts it, even tho they all know
2) there is a danger of spam
3) even when ppl post non-free email, they frequently ask not to use it - how can a purchaser/seller be sure that that non-free email actually belongs to the person in question
4) non-free email policy is enforced sporadically at best, loads of threads without any non-free email fall thru the cracks

Conclusion: non-free email policy is inconsistent (point 1, 4) and virtually non-enforceable (point 3) - how do u really confirm that poster does have actual access to the non-free email, and the mods wont have time to do it for each and every thread.

Any suggestions to improve the situation?
 
require the non-free email in the signup for an account, but without posting it. Maybe it can be used to contact directly from [H].
 
1. Those threads are consistently being deleted/locked now.
2. You get spammed on free and non-free e-mail, what's the point.
3. u confirm it's their e-mail by e-mailing it.....much like how you check for ebay references to make sure the acct is theirs
4. Mods are full time here to clean up, let the rule be self-enforcing. If the buyer is dumb enough not to check for reference, e-mail them etc etc, their problem. Mods are ensuring safety for traders here.

It's a good rule IMO. And the situation seems to be getting better everyday. ;)
 
I am curious as to what the rule is in regard to email addresses that point to a dyndns address.....
I've seen a few that are email servers setup with a dyndns account and no real domain. Easy to pick up and move on.....
Anyone know the rule in regard to this?
 
Great_Melinko said:
very few ppl are going to go through the work to do that just to register?
Click to expand...
and yet... I've seen it more than once!
 
1) Report it. Don't deal with anyone not complying with the rules, lest ye risk being trolled.
2) Spam is everywhere, free - non-free. What's the difference? If you don't want to risk spam at your ISP email addy, don't expect anyone to deal with you.
3) Email them directly even if they say not to. If they do not respond, see #1 above.
4) Agreed - but if we ALL pitch in and use the report button we can cut it down. Be part of the solution and hit that little exclamation to report a bad post.

I have been a victim of the spam. I had a jack@ss sign me up after we had PMed "some words" back and forth. It's a risk you take to comply with the rules.
 
xplicit said:
1) Report it. Don't deal with anyone not complying with the rules, lest ye risk being trolled.
2) Spam is everywhere, free - non-free. What's the difference? If you don't want to risk spam at your ISP email addy, don't expect anyone to deal with you.
3) Email them directly even if they say not to. If they do not respond, see #1 above.
4) Agreed - but if we ALL pitch in and use the report button we can cut it down. Be part of the solution and hit that little exclamation to report a bad post.

I have been a victim of the spam. I had a jack@ss sign me up after we had PMed "some words" back and forth. It's a risk you take to comply with the rules.
Click to expand...



Most ISPs offer subaccounts (or sometimes multiple email addies) if you dont want spam, and an email you can use just for FS/FT then I would suggest looking into them.
 
My main email account is a Yahoo account, but I pay for their premium service (I want POP bad), but I understand that it's impossible to verify that, so I have various accounts through my hosting service that I use. I've never touched my ISP email, I have no plans on doing so. If somebody is so desperate for a verifiable way of contacting me, they can have my telephone number :)
 
I've had the Yahoo account for well over 5 years now, in that time I went from HS to college, to home, to Adelphia, to Vzn, and in the next year I'll be moving across the country and getting Shaw, so I enjoy having a static, non-changing email :)
 
TehQuick said:
I just wanted to share some thoughts about the requirement to provide non-free email

1) not everyone posts it, even tho they all know
3) even when ppl post non-free email, they frequently ask not to use it - how can a purchaser/seller be sure that that non-free email actually belongs to the person in question
Click to expand...

Even with the extra modding, the problem still persists. What's plan B?
 
the mods have access to the email addys in your profile. Why not keep the non-free email addy in the profile, and not have to broadcast it in the forums, and do this; a simple request box, that can be selected after two parties agree on a deal, that says something like, " By requesting this persons email address you are consenting to give them yours as well." Each ticks the box, *BAM* each gets pm with the others non-free email address. If either party doesn't agree, ie tick the box, the non-free email address stays private.

Workable?

fwiw, I dont like using my non-free email because its part of Outlook Express, and I have to use IE to get mail from that account. OE is a PC crash waiting to happen IMO....
 
Everyday i locked or warn atleast 15-20 about thisv issue alone, im gettin tired of it as im sure the rest of the mods and Admins are. Post it or it will be locked. If you continue to not post it then other steps will need to be taken

Theres 4 mods now for the FS/T forum and one Admin. and some members still choose not to follow or just dont care even after being warned about it. Some even argue the point.
Its not just the new-comers either it every range of member from new guys/gals to vets. Stickys were put up for quiet some time and it look as if no one noticed them, I still get people saying "oh they must have just changed the rules" when its been this way for months now
 
TehQuick said:
I just wanted to share some thoughts about the requirement to provide non-free email

1) not everyone posts it, even tho they all know
2) there is a danger of spam
3) even when ppl post non-free email, they frequently ask not to use it - how can a purchaser/seller be sure that that non-free email actually belongs to the person in question
4) non-free email policy is enforced sporadically at best, loads of threads without any non-free email fall thru the cracks

Conclusion: non-free email policy is inconsistent (point 1, 4) and virtually non-enforceable (point 3) - how do u really confirm that poster does have actual access to the non-free email, and the mods wont have time to do it for each and every thread.

Any suggestions to improve the situation?
Click to expand...

The is a easy solution to all of these.

1) If they don't provide a non free email addy don't do business with them.
2) There is always a danger of spam if you account is free or not. If you are worried about getting spammed set up a second account with your ISP just for your FS/FT items.
3) If they ask them not to use it i would not do business with them. It honestly takes less then 5 mins to set that account to foward emails to the one they will use.
4) Help out with the problem. Report bad threads, don't do business with people that break the rules. If we are not helping to solve the problem it will continue. If we help solve the problem it will become less of one.
 
Sphexi said:
I've had the Yahoo account for well over 5 years now, in that time I went from HS to college, to home, to Adelphia, to Vzn, and in the next year I'll be moving across the country and getting Shaw, so I enjoy having a static, non-changing email :)
Click to expand...

Exactly why I pay $29.95 a year for my email account from I-Mail. I've had for 4yrs and 3 locations now. I hate changing email addresses too. I went with I-Mail because you get to pick from many domains that they don't have that notoriety of being a @yahoo or @hotmail address.
 
Yeah - no more email addy required?
It's going to be a trolls paradise around here.
 
xplicit said:
Yeah - no more email addy required?
It's going to be a trolls paradise around here.
Click to expand...


0) In the instance that we are contacted about any member here being a "bad trader" or a "troll," we reserve the right to turn any and all IP and personal information we have on that member over to any law enforcement authorities and/or any other group or individuals we desire. If you do not agree with this rule, do not trade on our boards.

i think itll be fine, its up to the traders to get the info they require for safety, we will no longer "baby sit" trades
 
i'm going to provide a yahoo account at all times, because since it is attached to mt sbc account it is in essence my pay account... that is food for thought to the mods

yahoo sbc rocks!!!!
 
theres no diffrence between post a non free email and routing a non free to your ISP. in the end its still a yahoo free email

Why not just post the ISP email if your yahoo on directs it there anyway?

Non the less its not an issue anymore
 
Cold Dark Shadow said:
i think itll be fine, its up to the traders to get the info they require for safety, we will no longer "baby sit" trades
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But by leaving it up to the traders, it's creating an environment rich for trolls.
It's like building a theme park, and instead of having people running the rides and making sure people are safe, it's just a free-for-all.
"It's not the park's fault you fell of that ride because you weren't buckled in; we take no responsibility for your actions; security is your problem"
IMO, when you(hardfourm) create an area for trading, you need to take some responsibility for keeping it safe around here. The new rule fucks people over.... it's only good once you've been trolled!

An ounce of prevention goes a long way....
 
well we tried and some just didnt get it or refuse to so now your on your own to provide for yourselfs

We'll keep board related problems taken care of but trade wise its up to you

EDIT:
We dont tell you to go on the ride its totally safe, we tell you trade at your own risk and practice safe trading, you get on the ride by your own choice
 
Vertigo Acid said:
IMO, when you(hardfourm) create an area for trading, you need to take some responsibility for keeping it safe around here. The new rule fucks people over.... it's only good once you've been trolled!

An ounce of prevention goes a long way....
Click to expand...
Well, if you can't or won't take reasonable precautions when trading, it's really not our fault if you get trolled because of that, now is it?
 
im not sure what false sence of security your getting anyway with a non-free email...........you want someone of value a true street address, and land based phone line which you can speak with the person on, also can be used to do reverse lookup. Not sure exactly what a "non-free email is going to do for you, when it comes down to getting trolled, what cha gonna do? its ok guys i got his non free email acctount thats, in his sisters, freinds, aunts, uncles name. I just dont even see this topic as debatable.. btw the only email i use is my isp, granted i dont gernarlly even email people.
 
ISP e-mail is traceable for law enforcement
EDU e-mail is traceable for law enforcement
(and yes, IP addy's are traceable for law enforement also ;) )

But that's not really my point

We @ the [H] have a terrible reputation as being a troll haven. And as much as I love our moderators to death, I think they drop the ball when it comes to FS/T. Just as you said Lethal, the entire responsibility for safety rests on the buyer. That's a stark contrast to the tight-knit community effort against trolls that can be seen around on various "other" forums. Providing a place to trade that is completely "we're not helping you out until after you get fucked" is asking for trolls, plain and simple.
How easy is it to setup a proxy to login from? How easy is it to use public computers to trade? When your IP information is shit, at least you'd still have an ISP/EDU e-mail to track back to... oh but wait
See?
Why remove one layer of protection that works pre-sale and replace it with one that works only post-sale after the trolling has occured?
You can argue back and forth that e-mail addys are more fakeable and whatnot than IP addys being spoofed and vice verse, but either way it's still dumb to remove protection
That, IMO, shows a lack of drive in the moderation; it's saying "it's too much work to clean up the non-conforming threads, so we'll just change the rules to make our lives easier, regardless of whether more people get screwed in the process and we invite more trolls in along the way. To pacify people, we'll tell them that IP info will be disclosed after trolling. (wasn't that possible before the new rule 0 anyway, if you e-mailed kyle?)

sigh... the saddest part is that I know I'm arguing a lost cause
G'night all, and happy trading
 
Vertigo Acid said:
ISP e-mail is traceable for law enforcement
EDU e-mail is traceable for law enforcement
(and yes, IP addy's are traceable for law enforement also ;) )

But that's not really my point

We @ the [H] have a terrible reputation as being a troll haven. And as much as I love our moderators to death, I think they drop the ball when it comes to FS/T. Just as you said Lethal, the entire responsibility for safety rests on the buyer. That's a stark contrast to the tight-knit community effort against trolls that can be seen around on various "other" forums. Providing a place to trade that is completely "we're not helping you out until after you get fucked" is asking for trolls, plain and simple.
How easy is it to setup a proxy to login from? How easy is it to use public computers to trade? When your IP information is shit, at least you'd still have an ISP/EDU e-mail to track back to... oh but wait
See?
Why remove one layer of protection that works pre-sale and replace it with one that works only post-sale after the trolling has occured?
You can argue back and forth that e-mail addys are more fakeable and whatnot than IP addys being spoofed and vice verse, but either way it's still dumb to remove protection
That, IMO, shows a lack of drive in the moderation; it's saying "it's too much work to clean up the non-conforming threads, so we'll just change the rules to make our lives easier, regardless of whether more people get screwed in the process and we invite more trolls in along the way. To pacify people, we'll tell them that IP info will be disclosed after trolling. (wasn't that possible before the new rule 0 anyway, if you e-mailed kyle?)

sigh... the saddest part is that I know I'm arguing a lost cause
G'night all, and happy trading
Click to expand...

^^^Voice Of Reason^^^
 
Even if it was back to post a non free email, all th points you posted can still be faked, "How easy is it to setup a proxy to login from? How easy is it to use public computers to trade?"

How is posting that email any safer if its still not true? Is it really that hard just to ask the non free email if trading? if the persons unwilling to give that up then move on to someone else
 
Cold Dark Shadow said:
Even if it was back to post a non free email, all th points you posted can still be faked, "How easy is it to setup a proxy to login from? How easy is it to use public computers to trade?"
Click to expand...

VERY easy - which makes the new rule retarded.
Why not just make the new rule: "Screw you guys - you're on your own."

Cold Dark Shadow said:
How is posting that email any safer if its still not true? Is it really that hard just to ask the non free email if trading? if the persons unwilling to give that up then move on to someone else
Click to expand...
It takes that step completely out of the equation, making picking and choosing "would be traders" much more easily done.
(and it weeds out at least SOME trolls)
Who wants to trudge through a dozen posts looking for someone with a non-free email posted just to more safely get a damn part? Not me!

*EDIT*
If they'd have kept the "banned free emails" rule intact and let me lock some posts because of it, I'd STILL be a mod, and this conversation wouldn't even be happening, and YOU know it!.
 
Cold Dark Shadow said:
Even if it was back to post a non free email, all th points you posted can still be faked, "How easy is it to setup a proxy to login from? How easy is it to use public computers to trade?"
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I see what you're saying
Yes, you can still fake IPs
But how feasable is it to fake a .edu or an ISP e-mail address?
It's pretty easy to check to see if it's theirs.... E-mail them there asking about X part!
 
Vertigo Acid said:
But how feasable is it to fake a .edu or an ISP e-mail address?
It's pretty easy to check to see if it's theirs.... E-mail them there asking about X part!
Click to expand...
Then please just ask them for it and verify it yourself. This thread is just beating a dead horse. If you have any further comments about the rules, please send them to [email protected]
 
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