Next Project Planning - Need Help

alphakry

alphakry

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
470
So i've decided on doing another project and could really use some suggestions in the planning and design of it.

Primary Specs of the project are as follows:

  • 2 separate loops - each with a reservoir (non-bay)
  • As internal as possible. Don't want things hanging off the case.
  • Easy method of bleeding - such as a on/off valve. (I know i've seen one guy do it here but haven't been able to find much about it)

  • eVGA 680i 122-CK-NF68-A1
  • Core2Duo E6850
  • 2GB Memory - likley the OCZ Flex Watercooled
  • Dual SLI 8800GTX
  • 750W PC Power Cooling Silencer Quad
  • Pump 1: MCP655 pump
  • Pump 2: MCP350 w/ Petra Top


Areas to examine

A. - Proper Cooling

Loop 1: Pump-->8800GTX--->8800GTX-->3xRad1-->Resevior. May consider throwing a few other parts such as memory in this loop
Loop 2: Pump-->CPU-->Chipset-->3xRad2-->Resevior. May considering throwing a few other parts such as HDD in this loop
​

I like my PC's QUIET - so like my previous model, I expect to have no airflow whatsoever. So that'll require most every component to have a water block on it.
So far, I plan:

GPU: Dual EK 8800GTX Blocks
CPU: Debating between D-Tek Fusion and Apogee GTX
Chipset: EK 680i chipset block... don't know of any other decent ones
Memory: Integrated into OCZ Flex, or another solution (already own Koolance)
HDD: Koolance, DangerDen, Other solution...

Anything special I should consider in regards to the amount of heat dump from any of these components? I know Ranker is normally pretty precise with the expectations of what configurations you use vs the amount of heat each component dumps into the loop, so I'm hoping he takes a few minutes to comment on this thread!​


B. - Case Real Estate

Debate B over - decided on a TJ07. Now i just gotta try to located a used one as $330 is pretty dam expensive!
Anyone got a TJ07 watercooled system - i'm looking for design ideas!?



I usually spend countless hours doing my own research but my goal with this project is to have the most complete, clean and best performance possible - so I'm hoping the comments and suggestions others offer may shine a light on some things I could be overlooking.



You're time and comments are MUCH appreciated!
 
made a decision on the case.

Currently hunting down a black windowed TJ07. That bottom compartment looks amazing for radiator space!

Other comments and ideas welcomed! What kind of heat dump numbers am i looking at in these loops?
 
That all looks good to me.

I'm just wondering, however... are your rads going to be internal? If so, how can you say there's "no airflow" in the case. If they're moving warmed air out (please don't pull cool air inside the case without an exhaust fan!) you'll get tonnes of airflow for the other components on the board!

As for easy bleeding, yeah, I've used a valve once. The *easiest* way though is just put a Tline at the VERY bottom of the loop, and another at the very top, with a valve on it. Open the top valve and fill the bottom Tline. This allows for easy gas-escape and makes bleeding a bunch easier. Just close the top valve when everything's bled. Both of the Upwards lines on the T should be about the same length.
 
hmm - interesting bleed idea... got any pics of a setup done well like that?


You're technically right in correcting my "no airflow whatsoever" comment - however I don't consider the venting from the rads to be viable airflow for the components. The bottom compartment of the TJ07 is separated and will be working solely to vent the radiators and power supply.

As you can see in this picture:

oyjx7oz5.jpg


The airflow of that bottom compartment isn't going to do much for the components in the top.
 
Also - in the interest of saving space in that bottom compartment for pumps - i may switch to 2x120 Radiators instead.
 
Sorry about getting to this late. I've been on a sabbatical from the watercooling scene as its beginning to bore me.

For your chipsets, I'd suggest using MCW30's as they're cheap and re-usable with future motherboards. If you like the bling, you can purchase an EK set like I have with an EK 680i on the NB and an EK NF4 1.1 on the SB.

Now, I understand that you want little to no airflow in the case due to your desire for silence. In that case, you'll be forced to watercool your mosfets as well.

Unfortunately, the EVGA board is limited in selection. I would suggest the Alphacool regular sized G1/4 Mosfet waterblock. It can be purchased from Performance-pcs.com.

If you're looking to cool and silence your HD's, I'd suggest the Alphacool Silentstar Dual bay HD waterblock. It completely silences my 2 WD Raptors and keeps them nice and cool to boot.

Now, to split the loops up:

C2D 6850's run very cool with the new G0 stepping. At 4.0 GHz, which is easily obtainable with 1.5v, it'll have a heat dump of about 150W. Throw in a few chipsets a piece at 25W + 25W respectively and you can throw all of that in your PA120.2.

Each GTX puts out about 130W. Two in SLI gives you 260W worth of heat to dissipate. If you throw in your RAM, mosfets, HD's, we're safely estimate them to be 100W total. At 360W, this will all go onto either your PA120.3 or your BIX 120x4.

Anyhow, with a TJ07, you can fit two radiators at the bottom, I'd suggest a BIX 120x4 or PA120.3 for your GPU/Mosfet/HD loop and a PA120.2 or MCR220 for your CPU/chipset loop.
 
you put get either the pa 120.2 or mcr220. Uhhh mcr320 is $47 . which is a tri of course

Just get one of those for your cpu loop.

and hell get another for your other loop. Save you $100 of total cost of rads you plan on using in your loops/
 
Performance is more important to me then price - so if the difference between the two is dramatic then i'll go with the better performer of the two.

Hence why I'm not even decided yet between a GTX, FuZion or to just keep the Storm I already have for cooling the CPU. I hear lots of good things about both the GTX and the Fuzion.


Thanks to both of you for the responses!!
 
The MCR series is a fantastic bang for your buck radiator. However, the OP states he's looking for performance and silence and in that department NOTHING beats thermochill radiators. The PA radiators fit his needs as they offer more heat dissipation than any other radiator for a given level of CFM. Basically, one can undervolt one's fans to better achieve one's goal of silence by using PA radiators.
 
Thanks Ranker. I'll look into it!

So my research on the chipset solutions leads me to believe that the swiftechs have less flow restriction due to a non-fin internal design but don't mount as perfectly on the eVGA motherboards as the EK block.

With either solution, should I be concerned about them getting in the way of the SLI setup?

Also - have you ever posted pics or a work log of your PC? I don't think i've seen it!
 
thanks Rank! you've been a great help thus far.

as posted on XS, i plan the following:


Loop 1: PA120.2->MCP655->D-Tek FuZion->EK South Chipset->EK North Chipset

Loop 2: PA120.3->MCP355 w/ Top->EK 8800GTX->EK 8800GTX->

Still considering either adding the following into loop 2 or making a 3rd loop:

Loop 3:OCZ Flex 2x1GB Watercooled->2x80GB Raptor, cooled by DangerDen HDD block
 
If you're after high performance and low noise I highly recommend a T-Balancer BigNG automated fan controller. Now that I've got one, I wouldn't be able to build another system without one.

As for a 3rd loop, it's up to you, but I think two loops is fine. The reason is that increasing the cooling on the GPU's beyond a certain level will do little for your GPU overclock so you may as well just hook in your memory and raptors into loop 2. In fact, if I were to add more cooling capacity via additional radiators, it would be against loop 1, to further assist with the CPU overclock (especially if performance is important).

p.s. if airflow is an issue, just get a 3rd (thin) rad on top. Twin 120mm fans on it will help cool the top.
 
A G0 Q6600 @ 4000mhz 1.5v has a heat output of:
0.023*(1.5^2)*4000 = 207w

The performance difference between a PA120.2 and an MCR220 is around 18%, tested myself :). An MCR220 can dissipate around 250w of heat with 2 yate loons @ 7v, which is enough for your CPU. An MCR320 can dissipate around 310w of heat with 3 yate loons @ 7v, which is enough for your Overclocked GPUs. I just can't recommend the PA series for 2 reasons: Non-standard mounting spaces, around twice the price for a tiny bit of extra performance (which you won't even really benefit from unless you hit more than 4ghz on your quad).

There's no need to use an MCP655 with a single CPU waterblock either, let alone the Fuzion (which has the least flow restriction out of any waterblock I've ever seen). You would be fine with an MCP355, or hell, a DB-x1 (or whatever that pump is...).

Don't get that RAM + HDD loop (and actually I'd stay away from that RAM alltogether, unless you like paying for a string of 4 letters: aka the name "Flex") for anything other than show. Dominator RAM in the path of *any* fan will stay cool enough up to 2.35v. HDD's don't benefit at all from watercooling.

SB waterblocks are a waste of everyone's time and money. Just get any old copper NB block (think the enzotech ones) and run it passive. Most SB's put out 7w of heat. There's a reason so many of them have such poor cooling solutions.
 
Arc - one thing to keep in mind in my original spec is that i run ZERO airflow. The only fans in my system are those on the radiators - which will be separated in the bottom compartment of the TJ07.

With no airflow, i'm not quite comfortable leaving certain devices to their own heat - esp. Raptors. Considering I already own both Koolance and DangerDen solutions for both RAM and HDD, i don't have a problem throwing them into a loop - so long as they don't impede performance by much..

The same holds true with the MCP655 - it's already owned so no need to go out and buy a different pump. Your opinions on the radiator solution is noted though and is something I'm still doing research on.
 
alphakry said:
With no airflow, i'm not quite comfortable leaving certain devices to their own heat - esp. Raptors. Considering I already own both Koolance and DangerDen solutions for both RAM and HDD, i don't have a problem throwing them into a loop - so long as they don't impede performance by much..
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but aren't northbridge, RAM, and HD watercooling applications extremely restrictive? I thought that it was always said just to be better to grab one of the aftermarket thermalright heatsinks, or something similar.
 
alphakry said:
Arc - one thing to keep in mind in my original spec is that i run ZERO airflow. The only fans in my system are those on the radiators - which will be separated in the bottom compartment of the TJ07.

With no airflow, i'm not quite comfortable leaving certain devices to their own heat - esp. Raptors. Considering I already own both Koolance and DangerDen solutions for both RAM and HDD, i don't have a problem throwing them into a loop - so long as they don't impede performance by much..

The same holds true with the MCP655 - it's already owned so no need to go out and buy a different pump. Your opinions on the radiator solution is noted though and is something I'm still doing research on.
Click to expand...

Ahh, Sorry, Missed the part about already owning the pump and the blocks. Well, in that case, might as well throw it in there.

My raptor gets *0* airflow too, and she idles cooler than any other drive I've ever used.

But don't think that you really *need* it.
 
I don't get the 'zero airflow' thing for the sake of silence. You say you're going to have fans on the radiators in the bottom of the case - but they don't count. You say you're going to use an MCP655. You even go so far as to say that you'll be using a PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 Quad, which, as [H] and many others have noted, is VERY LOUD when loaded.

Edit: Here's the exact quote:
H Review said:
This leaves one last thing to consider with this unit, the “Silencer” portion. To be blunt it isn't silent or even very quiet. While not the loudest single 80mm fan design we have had in to test, the claim of "up to 90% less noise per watt" is only saved by the fact that it does say "up to" and it certainly is quieter than the Turbo-Cool. So while technically fulfilling the requirements of the labeling users should be aware that if noise is a concern at higher load levels or in applications where noise is going to be readily apparent the name “Silencer” does not mean silent.
Click to expand...

Yet instead of using a couple 7v 120mm fans to cool the system, you decide that water will be used for everything and that no fans will be used in the upper compartment. This in turn means that you need to use that many more blocks in the loop, costing you money, flow rate and temps. (Yes, you already own the blocks, but if you didn't have to use them you could sell them.) I don't have a problem with water cooling everything in your system - even though you're mixing metals, it's still alright with me. What I have a problem with is that you are adding all this extra expense and performance penalty on the basis that it will make your system quieter.

Even if you 5v the fans on the radiator and run the MCP655 at the lowest setting, your PSU will sound like a hair dryer when you fire up a game.

Here, let me offer you something constructive. This deal ends today. If silence is what you really care about, that's going to be one of the most helpful links you'll see. Don't take my word for it though, check the link to Jonny's review.
 
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