[NEWS] Apple vs Microsoft- Who's the Copycat?

[MrGuvernment]

MS always gets blamed for copying Apple... and Apple always seems to be braned the innovator of everything....

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/macosx_leopard_preview.asp

Sure Paul is often reporting on Windows, but it bashes it as much as praisies it..

Apple Mac OS X Leopard Preview: Who's the Copycat Now?


Sometimes I wonder how Apple CEO Steve Jobs can sleep at night. He appears to spend half his waking hours ridiculing Microsoft's admittedly behind-schedule operating system, Windows Vista, for copying Mac OS X features. But this week at Apple's annual Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC), he announced ten new features for Leopard, the next version of OS X, most of which will seem more than vaguely familiar to Windows users. I'm not dim: Microsoft does copy Apple on a fairly regular basis. But seriously, Steve. Apple's just as bad.

More important, perhaps, is that the new OS X features that Jobs and company announced this week aren't, by and large, all that impressive. Two of the new features--Time Machine and Spaces--are valuable additions to OS X and worth discussing, though both, interestingly, have been done before in other OSes. The other Leopard features Apple announced, alas, are almost all a complete waste of time. They're the types of things one might expect of a minor, interim update, or from free Web downloads. They are certainly not major features as Jobs claimed.

OK, enough Jobs bashing. The guy's a visionary and truly important presence in the industry, and it will be a sad, sad day when he steps down from his post at Apple and fades into the sunset. (The reality of this possibility seemed all the more real this week. Am I the only one that though Jobs looked oddly gaunt and sickly during the WWDC keynote?) But as I've often said of Apple and Jobs: They do good work. It's too bad they feel the need to exaggerate so much.

Anyway, what I'd like to do here is address Apple's comments about Windows Vista and Microsoft, and take a look at the Leopard features Apple announced at WWDC. It's important for you to understand, however, that I don't have Leopard. I'm basing this only on what Apple showed off at WWDC.

Redmond, start your photocopiers
If you watch the WWDC keynote telecast (and the accompanying "PC guy" intro video, both of which are available on the Apple Web site), you'll notice immediately that Apple is more than a little preoccupied with Windows Vista. That's understandable, since Windows is Mac OS X's primary competition (in the sense that 2 percent of the market is competition for Windows) and Apple was inspired by Vista features like Spotlight (er, sorry, Windows Search) when creating its previous OS X version, Tiger (see my review). But that's not a slam, really. Give Apple some credit for getting to market first--by a long shot--and doing a fantastic job of implementing features that Microsoft, frankly, may never get right.

But by the same token, I have to admit to being a bit shocked by how childish Apple is about Vista. Say what you will about Microsoft (heck, I do), but the company is at least deferential to its customers in public, about as far from smug as is humanly possible, and it very rarely takes pointed shots at the competition. From the opening PC guy video ("Widgets, gadgets... completely different. They are their own thing. Just like Aqua. I mean, uh, Aero.") to the last moments of the keynote, Jobs and company unleashed a never-ending, tireless diatribe against Microsoft and its upcoming Windows Vista release.

Jobs was quick to tout the progress Apple has made with its OS since 2001, when both Windows XP and the first version of OS X shipped. "What have we been doing for the last five years?" he asked. "We've been putting out releases of OS X." He claimed that Apple shipped five "major" updates to OS X, including Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, and Tiger, though I'd argue that virtually none of those were major updates at all. (Unless you count the cost. At $129 for each version, that's about $750 on Mac OS X upgrades since 2001. That kind of puts the cost of Windows in perspective.) But he counted Tiger on Intel as a sixth major release, because of the effort in porting the OS X code to a new platform (which, actually, had been in the works for a long time and wasn't the 210 day project Jobs claimed).

Continued on link.....

 

[MrGuvernment]

Lies, damnable lies, and statistics
More than any other company I cover regularly, Apple plays light and loose with facts. The company is so insidious with this behavior, in fact, that I could almost turn Apple myth busting into a full-time job if I thought someone would pay me to do it. Here's one example from the keynote:

Apple shipped 1.33 million Macs in the quarter ending June 30, 2006. It was their best Mac quarter ever. Jobs noted that the Mac's growth rate was "dramatically faster" than the rest of the PC industry, about 16.5 percent for the Mac, compared to just 6 percent for the PC. "We're gaining market share," Jobs declared triumphantly, to cheers. Ahem. Not so fast, Steve. In the previous quarter, the Mac's growth rate was significantly lower than that of the PC (13.1 percent for the PC vs. 4 percent for the Mac). More to the point, Apple's explosion growth in 2005 did nothing to help the Mac's market share, which is still mired at 2 percent worldwide. In other words, Steve's claim is baloney: Apple hasn't really gained any appreciable market share at all--indeed, Apple has lost market share every year since Jobs took the CEO helm--but his comment is technically true: In the slice of time that is the second quarter of 2006, Apple gained--get this--about 1/10th of one percent of market share. And the WWDC crowd goes wild.

go jobs go! ly to your trusting mindless minions!

 

[XOR != OR]

*raises hand*

Hi, ya, I don't care who's copying who. If MS can provide the features I want better than Apple, I don't care if they stole the design specs straight from OS X "Orange Tabby". Couldn't care less.

Conversely, if apple can bring me the features I want better than MS, I don't care if MS had it first.

This is !!!!!! fodder, pure and simple.

after-thought; This is precisely what we want, btw. One vendor taking cool stuff from another vendor to make their product better. The winner can only be the consumer, which is something I'm all for ( being the consumer ).

 

[PikachuMan]

It's silly people are worked up over this.

 

[MrGuvernment]

i dont think it is silly, i think it put's more into light Apple's way of doing buisness, how fanatical Apple followers really are, i posted this on an apple forum and the rebutal's were mediocore at best.

 

[Lich]

Uhm, did that article really say that Spotlight ripped of Windows Search? Talk about how every OS in the past 20 some years has had a search feature

 

[six_storm]

Honestly, I think that Microsoft is too busy handling viruses and fixing a poorly written OS (Windows anything) to bother making cool things, like Apple has done with OS X. Even though I personally think Microsoft has copied Apple a lot, people copy people every day and just slap their name on it.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Some more:

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Apple vs Microsoft Both Copycats |
| from the we-all-copy-each-other-anyway dept. |
| posted by CmdrTaco on Friday August 11, @21:58 (Operating Systems|
| http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/11/219216 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

[0]jdbartlett writes "Yesterday, we read Paul Thurrott's [1]response to
Apple's Leopard preview. In his TechBlog, Jim Thompson trims Thurrott's
bloated opinion piece and presents an alternative take on four major new
features, admitting that each may have been inspired [2]but certainly
not
by Microsoft. Thompson ignores 6 features; some (Core Animation,
Accessibility improvements) needed no defense, but perhaps not all
Thurrott's points were invalid."

Discuss this story at:
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=06/08/11/219216

Links:
0. http://www.jdbartlett.com/
1. http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/macosx_leopard_preview.asp
2.
http://blogs.chron.com/techblog/archives/2006/08/how_did_leopard_1.html

We could get into hardware too and who had what first but that would be MS vs apple, it would be the world vs apple

 

[shoman24v]

Just some of my thoughts:

I think it's funny how some Mac owners think they are superior to all others. If you watched the WWDC they way they chuckle when Jobs takes a hit at MS is ridiculous.

Jobs talks about "gaining market share". That has to be the worst attempt at trying to make Apple look better. Mac's make up something like 4% of all computers, so any increase in sales is a HUGE thing for them because they are so small. I'm sure that there were more then 1.3 Million PCs shipped (that's how many Apple's shipped) in the last year, but since the PC market is so large 1.3 Million isn't a huge percentage.

They they decide to talk about the configurations that you can have with a Mac? They list some number in the Millions. What the (you know what) are they talking about? When I think configurations I think of hardware choices. With the PC you can have an endless amount of choices as to what hardware you want to use, with Mac... you're kinda stuck once you hit a certain point.

IMO Mac users should be praising the fact that Apple went Intel. Now they can rub it in to Windows users that they can run the "inferior OS". In my opinion, what Mac owners don't know that they are essentially buying a "PC" with Mac OS X. I'd love to have spare money to build an Intel Mac, just to rub it in some faces.

 

[Anemone]

I guess we'd have to mention that both Apple and MS copied Xerox to even have windows in the first place. But anyway that goes back a bit in time.

Apple is a pathetically tiny niche market machine that just like that little tiny guy you knew in school, they'll always talk tough. Fact is they have a heck of a time getting anyone interested in their machines.

Viruses? The absolutely only reason Apple "seems" more secure is that the vast majority of hackers wouldn't be bothered with the Apple userbase. It's so tiny and they know it. They want things that make a splash, that can affect 100's of millions of users, or gain access to a billion machines the world over. The funny thing is that now that Apple has made this big stink about being more secure you are starting to see some viruses and other hacks showing up. Why? Well we're not the only ones who read the news or watch TV. Apple pokes their heads in a nasty world and says "we're immune" and, oh my, they get bitten.

Look if you like Apple, or its approaches to solutions, well then enjoy them. But please keep the comparisons there. Comparing Apple to systems that outsell them almost 50:1, is kind of ridiculous. It's natural in advertising, but at [H} we dig a lot deeper than advertising.

 

[jimmyb]

IViruses? The absolutely only reason Apple "seems" more secure is that the vast majority of hackers wouldn't be bothered with the Apple userbase.

I don't use Apple computers, nor do I care at all about either company copying each other, so I'm pretty apathetic to the whole PC-Mac rivalry.

Saying that OSX's security is only based on the relative tininess of it compared to windows isn't true. Sure, that has a lot to do with it, but there are plenty of other reasons why it is just a generally more secure OS. The mere fact that users don't run in privileged mode by default makes a huge difference.

 

[Anemone]

I didn't say "only" reason. I said big contributor. Moreover, there are a reasonable amount of folks using a non privledged mode system in Windows as well. In fact if it is someone knowledgeable setting a system up, that is just about the first thing TO set up.

Mind you I'm not unimpressed by OSX in many regards. It does some nifty things well and solidly well. But to call it vastly more secure, is not truthful, imo.

 

[K Scott]

you know what i think? since apple is trying to be like microsoft and vice versa, they should just team up and mak an operating sytem everyone could enjoy. now that would be sweet.

 

[Tweakin]

i dont think it is silly, i think it put's more into light Apple's way of doing buisness, how fanatical Apple followers really are, i posted this on an apple forum and the rebutal's were mediocore at best.

"Apple's way of doing buisness" true true, they are guilty of putting way to good of a spin on what they are bringing to the table this time and their Q4 2006 results. They are also guilty of taking huge advantage of their competitor taking 6 years to bring anything new to the desktop market. However, arn't these things nearly expected of two competing companies these days?

Now... with that out of the way, should we not talk about "Microsoft's way of doing business"? That might make a much more interesting conversation, hell, courts in several different countries seem to talk about it a lot more then Apple (excluding faulty nano screens of course). Companies doing bad business publicly? How about calling one of your competitors a cancer to the industry?

I am a PC guy all the way, but I certainly wouldnt compare Apple and Microsoft's and try to shine light on fair business.

 

[jimmyb]

The absolutely only reason Apple "seems" more secure is that the vast majority of hackers wouldn't be bothered with the Apple userbase.

I didn't say "only" reason.

Ok, I believe you.

Anyway, you do make a valid point. Many XP/2000 users do run with reduced privileges, but the fact that this isn't the default mode means the majority of people aren't and are significantly at risk.

 

[XOR != OR]

Ok, I believe you.

Anyway, you do make a valid point. Many XP/2000 users do run with reduced privileges, but the fact that this isn't the default mode means the majority of people aren't and are significantly at risk.

Point of clarification:
"many", not be confused with "most". Most home users ( I'd say at least 90% ) run as administrator.

Why? Because that's the default.

 

[K1llaB]

I would like to see how Apple could handle 97% of the market, instead of the lowly 3% they have now.

While MS is far from perfect, you can look back at their progress thru their releases (Me being a slight exception) & i definately cant complain. And i think Vista will continue their track record of improvements.

Lets see Apple handle support for multiple cpu vendors, mobo vendors, peripherals, applications, etc. With all the vendors providing products that run on Windows, theres going to be application incompatibilities. Developers interpret standards differently, & its impossible to certify every possible hardware/software configuration in a pc enviroment. When i look at an Apple, its a prepackaged deal, almost like a console. Windows is expected to run on anything you throw under it. From high end parts, to cheap no name off shore parts. Thats where i see the differences.

Another double standard i see is when MS tries to implement new features, the industry cries foul that MS is overstepping an OS's role. Everyone wants MS to unbundle media player, browser, remote desktop, etc. Yet Apple has all their services bundled in & its touted as gods gift to computers. My theory is MS throws some basic apps in (like backup, movie maker) because they know some users want it. But they cant include a too powerful tool as then 3rd party developers would start litigation. So they have to walk a thin line of giving customers features & not pushing their 3rd partys to other platforms.

We wont really ever know how good Apple OS's are until Apple decides to compete w/ MS & Linux.

Also agree that Apple looks like fools in their commercials & speeches when they bad mouth MS. Its like Jobs has penis envy.

 

[six_storm]

Here's all I really got to say . . . I'm so glad that Apple doesn't have much of the "market". Why? First off, yeah, I'd rather all the Windows users get viruses, spyware, and such instead of me and anyone else that uses a Mac. Secondly, gamers (and the average moron who wants a family computer from Best Buy) need to be on Windows so they won't bitch about games and not "being used" to Mac OS X. Professionals (Musicians, Artists, Directors, etc) and simplist (call me lazy but I like it this way ) need to be on Macs.

I'll agree that there are some !!!!!!s out there that are Apple crazy, saying some rather outrageous things and who worship Steve. Happily, I'm not one of them. I've had my past experience with Windows anything and Mac OS X has proven itself worthy of being better IMO.

M$ got in at the right time back around 10 or so years ago when businesses started relying heavily on computers to simplify work, aka Microsoft Office. Macs back then sucked so bad (yes, they were horrible) but have become really great machines within the past 2-3 years. I'm so glad that the majority of computer users in the world use Windows. At least when I'm using my Mac, I won't be worrying about 20+ updates a week/month, loading up my harddrive with pointless, yet necessary Service Packs, viruses, spyware, random restarts, and BSODs . . . I'll be working on an OS that just works.

 

[GreNME]

Dude, you need some perspective.

Here's all I really got to say . . . I'm so glad that Apple doesn't have much of the "market". Why? First off, yeah, I'd rather all the Windows users get viruses, spyware, and such instead of me and anyone else that uses a Mac. Secondly, gamers (and the average moron who wants a family computer from Best Buy) need to be on Windows so they won't bitch about games and not "being used" to Mac OS X.

Interesting, since I have come across a far higher percentage of non-computer-savvy people using Macs and not PCs. In fact, when I come across someone who is practically a luddite in their desire to adopt any computer savvy, I usually direct them to Apple products, since they are practically more like appliances (unless you decide to open them up).

Professionals (Musicians, Artists, Directors, etc) and simplist (call me lazy but I like it this way ) need to be on Macs.

Two things:
1. "Professional" and "creative" are not the same word, so don't use them as if they are. I am a professional, and I am not a musician, artist, or director (at least not outside of hobbies). You can be a "professional creative" but being a creative does not mean you are a professional.

2. I happen to be a professional who works for a creative company (architectural and interior/exterior design), and my company has not a single Apple computer in any of their three offices (Dallas, Las Vegas, DC). I know this because I am the manager of the whole IT infrastructure, so I (or my department) am responsible for all purchases, maintenance, support, and so on. Get back to me when OS X can run AutoCAD, Revit, and VIS, and perhaps I'll talk to Apple about how they can compete in prices.

M$

MS got in at the right time back around 10 or so years ago when businesses started relying heavily on computers to simplify work, aka Microsoft Office.

You're way off on your timeline for Office. Word has been around since 1989, Excel since 1987, PowerPoint was bought by Microsoft in 1987 (it first ran only on a Mac, back in 1984), and Publisher came out in 1991. Most of Microsoft Office is older than most of the people who post here, and some of it is older than Windows.

Macs back then sucked so bad (yes, they were horrible) but have become really great machines within the past one year.

T,FTFY.

I'm so glad that the majority of computer users in the world use Windows. At least when I'm using my Mac, I won't be worrying about 20+ updates a week/month, loading up my harddrive with pointless, yet necessary Service Packs, viruses, spyware, random restarts, and BSODs . . . I'll be working on an OS that just works.

I thought you said you weren't a fan---. Considering you just spouted every ridiculous RDF rhetoric in the Macintosh handbook, I'd say you fall firmly into the "frothing zealot" camp.

*raises hand*

Hi, ya, I don't care who's copying who. If MS can provide the features I want better than Apple, I don't care if they stole the design specs straight from OS X "Orange Tabby". Couldn't care less.

Conversely, if apple can bring me the features I want better than MS, I don't care if MS had it first.

This is !!!!!! fodder, pure and simple.

after-thought; This is precisely what we want, btw. One vendor taking cool stuff from another vendor to make their product better. The winner can only be the consumer, which is something I'm all for ( being the consumer ).

Everyone, pay very close attention to that post. That is the wisest thing to come out of this thread.

 

[synergyo1]

I love computers, therefore I love using both platforms Each have their advantages.

 

[PikachuMan]

i dont think it is silly, i think it put's more into light Apple's way of doing buisness, how fanatical Apple followers really are, i posted this on an apple forum and the rebutal's were mediocore at best.

And you don't see why this "debate" is silly?

They insulted your OS. You get offended (?). You then spend considerable time trying to defend your OS, while insulting their OS. They insult you back, some name calling ensues, and maybe a penny arcade comic thrown in for good measure.

Silly, silly people.

 

[jimmyb]

Another double standard i see is when MS tries to implement new features, the industry cries foul that MS is overstepping an OS's role. [...]

There is good reason for this too. Microsoft is a monopoly, whereas Apple is not. Antitrust law is applicable to Microsoft, whereas not so much with Apple (again, with good reason).

I'll reiterate that I'm not an Apple user.

 

[six_storm]

Interesting, since I have come across a far higher percentage of non-computer-savvy people using Macs and not PCs. In fact, when I come across someone who is practically a luddite in their desire to adopt any computer savvy, I usually direct them to Apple products, since they are practically more like appliances (unless you decide to open them up).

Interesting . . around here, most people that go buy a computer (unless you live in the more rich part of the state) go to Best Buy and grab just anything off the shelf, only looking at the price.

Two things:
1. "Professional" and "creative" are not the same word, so don't use them as if they are. I am a professional, and I am not a musician, artist, or director (at least not outside of hobbies). You can be a "professional creative" but being a creative does not mean you are a professional.

2. I happen to be a professional who works for a creative company (architectural and interior/exterior design), and my company has not a single Apple computer in any of their three offices (Dallas, Las Vegas, DC). I know this because I am the manager of the whole IT infrastructure, so I (or my department) am responsible for all purchases, maintenance, support, and so on. Get back to me when OS X can run AutoCAD, Revit, and VIS, and perhaps I'll talk to Apple about how they can compete in prices.

That is true, professional is more of IT, business and such, whereas creative is music, art, movies, etc. I agree with that. I have some friends who run AutoCAD but can't run that stuff on Macs. I never said that Macs could run every single professional program that Windows can. There will always be certain types of software that Windows will be able to run that Macs cannot, aka AutoCAD and games. If that is your thing, then go PC.

You're way off on your timeline for Office. Word has been around since 1989, Excel since 1987, PowerPoint was bought by Microsoft in 1987 (it first ran only on a Mac, back in 1984), and Publisher came out in 1991. Most of Microsoft Office is older than most of the people who post here, and some of it is older than Windows.

Whoops . I was never really introduced to M$ Office until the Win95 era . . . yikes.

T,FTFY.

Thanks for changing my quote . Mac OS X has been doing some awesome things within the past 2-3 years.

I thought you said you weren't a fan---. Considering you just spouted every ridiculous RDF rhetoric in the Macintosh handbook, I'd say you fall firmly into the "frothing zealot" camp.

The only reason I stated this is because it's the truth. It's past experience for me. Windows and I just don't click, period; so much bad luck. Ever since buying my first Mac in March of '05, I have never ever had any problem whatsoever. Could I have just had problems with the hardware in my PC? No, especially when you replace it 2+ times. Mac OS X just works better for me, plain and simple. Windows IMO is just not a good, reliable OS.

You gotta understand where I'm coming from pal. You can't claim someone of being a !!!!!! if they have lived what they've said. I've had my fair share with Windows, yet I know I'm not 100% done with it due to my career. I don't mind owning a PC with Windows, but I would never use it for things like web surfing and holding any of my important data. Especially if you are gaming, I don't want you to go running to an Apple store. Go build one (save some cash) and have fun. Now would a !!!!!! say something like that lol?

 

[djnes]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the "news" part of this? Or, is it just another one of MrGuvernment's threads to state old news, but make it sound like some hot off the presses, breaking news alert?

 

[ChingChang]

Steve Jobs is funny. I always love reading about his lies/misinformation

 

[Private Citizen]

/Quote: Synergyro1:
"I love computers, therefore I love using both platforms Each have their advantages."
Quote/_____________________________________________________________________

Here, Here! I do agree, mate.

 

[GreNME]

Interesting . . around here, most people that go buy a computer (unless you live in the more rich part of the state) go to Best Buy and grab just anything off the shelf, only looking at the price.

Considering there are fifty states in the US, you're going to have to be a little more specific if you're talking about a "rich part of the state." Besides, an iMac is about the same price most people I've seen spend on their computers. Six of one, half-dozen of the other. As for where people buy their computers here in Dallas, TX, it usually splits between Dell, Fry's (which also sells Apple), CompUSA (which also sells Apple), Apple, and some Gateway purchases. At least, that was the last I read from a mix of retail and wholesale reports. Since I don't deal with retail (companies would be stupid to pay retail prices), I don't follow it any more. That doesn't stop me from telling the person who doesn't want to have to learn how to use computers to get a Mac. Unless you are saying that Mac does not, indeed, do everything for you and make things extremely easy to do, then you should be agreeing with me instead of being a pretentious elitist.

That is true, professional is more of IT, business and such, whereas creative is music, art, movies, etc. I agree with that. I have some friends who run AutoCAD but can't run that stuff on Macs. I never said that Macs could run every single professional program that Windows can. There will always be certain types of software that Windows will be able to run that Macs cannot, aka AutoCAD and games. If that is your thing, then go PC.

You're funny. You bag on Windows and talk like this cartoon when it comes to Macs, and then you pretty much ignore all of the beneficial features of Mac OS X that have made it such a viable and enjoyable operating system. You're reasoning sounds more like hearing a person suffering from borderline personality disorder take a rorschach test.

Thanks for changing my quote . Mac OS X has been doing some awesome things within the past 2-3 years.

Like what? List the top ten, and I can guarantee you I can find their equivalents in Linux, Windows, or even BeOS. OS X was the best thing to happen to the Macintosh Operating System and Apple Computers, not to the whole world of computing. Mac OS X was a grand step up from Mac OS 9 and its predecessors. Welcome to the twenty-first century of multi-tasking operating systems.

The only reason I stated this is because it's the truth. It's past experience for me. Windows and I just don't click, period; so much bad luck. Ever since buying my first Mac in March of '05, I have never ever had any problem whatsoever. Could I have just had problems with the hardware in my PC? No, especially when you replace it 2+ times. Mac OS X just works better for me, plain and simple. Windows IMO is just not a good, reliable OS.

And yet you can't specify or expand on any of your claims. I can tell you the good and useful features within Mac OS, Windows, Linux, and can find you equivalents to almost everything a person would need to do, both personally and professionally. You, on the other hand, are making sweeping statements with no information, basing everything on your own PEBKAC issues. You need to get a grip on the fact that if something isn't working for you, perhaps you were doing something wrong.

You gotta understand where I'm coming from pal. You can't claim someone of being a !!!!!! if they have lived what they've said.

I believe I can and have.

I've had my fair share with Windows, yet I know I'm not 100% done with it due to my career. I don't mind owning a PC with Windows, but I would never use it for things like web surfing and holding any of my important data. Especially if you are gaming, I don't want you to go running to an Apple store. Go build one (save some cash) and have fun. Now would a !!!!!! say something like that lol?

And once again, you show your ignorance. It is cheaper to buy a computer from a company than it is to build it one's self, despite the myths that are propagated from a time where parts were more expensive and fabrication was costly. Fully half the people I know who game own a Mac of some sort, whether a PowerMac or an iBook. They simply have a wider range of taste than those like you, whose blinding curtain of brand-loyalty RDF has pretty much turned their opinion on computing into a redneck Chevy/Ford argument.

We're in a new level of computing today, where Windows, Macs, Linux, and other current operating systems generally play very well together, all competing for the market share of the consumer. The more these groups continue to put out feature packs that integrate and assimilate the ability to perform the same tasks on any given operating system, the only people who are going to win are consumers. Sticking blindly to any brand or platform is going to make you very obsolete within a short period of time, and is going to leave you bitter and in the dark. Don't let the market-speak and RDF plowed out by these companies claiming to be selling you the next sliced bread fool you, because if you do you'll have only yourself to blame. That path leads to obsolescence.

Get over yourself and enjoy using your computer for what it is: a tool to complete tasks, not a damned fashion accessory.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

wow I hate it when mac and pc debates break out. I am gonna say this I run/ran OSX, Windows, and Linux. I have used an apple computer to do publishing and it was a shared computer, and let me tell you they ran like crap most of the time NOT because of the OS, but because it was used by many 'dumb' people, I dont know how they did it but they made OSX run like a pile of crap, and there were problems all the time ...... I have used osx where it runs like a dream. I have seen windows xp do the same. I taught my brother how to prevent himself from getting viruses and spyware, and his windows xp runs great on a p4 1.4 with 256MB of ram with a tnt2, so its not the Operating System, its more often the user. In fairness to windows there will be more exploits and security issues when its used by 90% of the market or what ever it has. I am sure if the amount of retards that used windows used osx we would see similar results.

If anyone cares which of the three I prefer its, linux.

 

[six_storm]

Considering there are fifty states in the US, you're going to have to be a little more specific if you're talking about a "rich part of the state." Besides, an iMac is about the same price most people I've seen spend on their computers. Six of one, half-dozen of the other. As for where people buy their computers here in Dallas, TX, it usually splits between Dell, Fry's (which also sells Apple), CompUSA (which also sells Apple), Apple, and some Gateway purchases. At least, that was the last I read from a mix of retail and wholesale reports. Since I don't deal with retail (companies would be stupid to pay retail prices), I don't follow it any more. That doesn't stop me from telling the person who doesn't want to have to learn how to use computers to get a Mac. Unless you are saying that Mac does not, indeed, do everything for you and make things extremely easy to do, then you should be agreeing with me instead of being a pretentious elitist.

I live in Tennessee (around the Nashville area) and around here, people like to grab the lowest priced computers. We do not have a Frys anywhere around here, so people like to go to Best Buys and CCs to grab an eMachine. It's sad, I know. Most of the average computer user in the market for a computer buy these machines just for the price. However, if you go to the other side of Nashville, where most of the Titans players live (or used to live), you will see an Apple store where the place is always flooded and people walking out with laptops and a few desktops. It just depends where ya go.

I never said that Macs can solve world hunger and then do everything else in the world . . . never said that at all. Again, if you prefer Windows, run programs that cannot run on Mac OS X, game or just lik-a da Gates, go with it. Have fun. I'm not forcing Macs down anyone's throats here.

You're funny. You bag on Windows and talk like this cartoon when it comes to Macs, and then you pretty much ignore all of the beneficial features of Mac OS X that have made it such a viable and enjoyable operating system. You're reasoning sounds more like hearing a person suffering from borderline personality disorder take a rorschach test.

Haha, that's a good cartoon. Maybe I should move to Iceland!!!! Anyways, I am fully aware that there are pros and cons of both machines.

Like what? List the top ten, and I can guarantee you I can find their equivalents in Linux, Windows, or even BeOS. OS X was the best thing to happen to the Macintosh Operating System and Apple Computers, not to the whole world of computing. Mac OS X was a grand step up from Mac OS 9 and its predecessors. Welcome to the twenty-first century of multi-tasking operating systems.

Thank you! I've been waiting for someone to welcome me into this whole "computer age". JK Anyways, I'm not 100% fluent with Linux or any other distro of it's kind; haven't gotten that far yet. Did I mention that Macs can solve world hunger? Haha jk. Listen, I agree with you that Mac OS X is the best thing to happen to Apple computers, I honestly agree. I've hated Macs until I saw some features in Tiger, not to mention I was at the point of throwing my PC out the window due to Windows problems.

And yet you can't specify or expand on any of your claims. I can tell you the good and useful features within Mac OS, Windows, Linux, and can find you equivalents to almost everything a person would need to do, both personally and professionally. You, on the other hand, are making sweeping statements with no information, basing everything on your own PEBKAC issues. You need to get a grip on the fact that if something isn't working for you, perhaps you were doing something wrong.

I've been building PCs for the past 3 years, for myself and other people. It isn't the best thing to do if you are willing to spend $700 or less (get a freakin Dell for $500). I didn't really have any problems until I started getting real heavy into PC Gaming (around when Far Cry and Doom 3 came out). Most drivers never worked, BSODs every once in a while, a couple of my important documents were lost (just gone) and so forth. I even replaced multiple hardware items straight back to the factory, only to find out that nothing was wrong with it in the first place (RMA depts aren't that fun). I even sold everything I had and started all over with a new gaming PC in mind. I still wound up having problems when trying to play games.

Even when trying to fix other people's PCs (eMachines, Dells, etc), I just saw stupid problems that were easy to fix, but I shouldn't have had to deal with at all. How do you explain to somebody that after all you can do, the PC still can't remember the printer? Haha, that was a fun one. I'm tellin ya, I've just had some super bad luck with Windows.

I believe I can and have.

Well, good for you buddy.

And once again, you show your ignorance. It is cheaper to buy a computer from a company than it is to build it one's self, despite the myths that are propagated from a time where parts were more expensive and fabrication was costly. Fully half the people I know who game own a Mac of some sort, whether a PowerMac or an iBook. They simply have a wider range of taste than those like you, whose blinding curtain of brand-loyalty RDF has pretty much turned their opinion on computing into a redneck Chevy/Ford argument.

Haha, those like me huh? Wow, I'm glad that you really really know me based on 2-3 posts. It's a good, warm, fussy feeling when your forum buddy knows all about cha. Apple isn't the best business in the world, I could've told you that. I do believe however that they make a better OS than anyone else and I really like their design for their products. Again, that's my opinion. Apple isn't perfect.

We're in a new level of computing today, where Windows, Macs, Linux, and other current operating systems generally play very well together, all competing for the market share of the consumer. The more these groups continue to put out feature packs that integrate and assimilate the ability to perform the same tasks on any given operating system, the only people who are going to win are consumers. Sticking blindly to any brand or platform is going to make you very obsolete within a short period of time, and is going to leave you bitter and in the dark. Don't let the market-speak and RDF plowed out by these companies claiming to be selling you the next sliced bread fool you, because if you do you'll have only yourself to blame. That path leads to obsolescence.

Get over yourself and enjoy using your computer for what it is: a tool to complete tasks, not a damned fashion accessory.

Who said anything about a fashion accessory? For the record, yes, I do carry my iMac around on my hip just to look cool. Haha, wow. I'm just glad to see that you are so opinionated and that everyone should agree with you wholeheartedly. You gotta face that everyone has different opinions and preferences.

I am enjoying my iMac and using it for completing multiple tasks. In fact I enjoy it more than any PC I've ever owned. But hey, what does my opinion count here anyways?

 

[Skipper007]

I like my friend's Power Mac G5 and Mac OS X. It's cool.

I like the XP running PCs my dad, brother and I use better. Part familiarity, part because I have a lot of PC only games/software, part that I can service it myself quite easily, and part because of the lower prices.

I do poke fun at mac users on occassion, but for the most part I like to live and let live. That said, I reject the notion that the PC is a shitty platform. I've run into tons of annoying glitches in my lifetime, but for the past few years most of the bugs I've run into have been testing uncharted waters... like trying to figure out how to run Japanese langauge games on my machine. I have very few serious crashes with my rig in day to day work... most are things I know how to recover from in like 30 seconds tops and are due to quirks in little known software I run.

 

[MrGuvernment]

That is true, professional is more of IT, business and such, whereas creative is music, art, movies, etc. D

WOW, you are so off on what a professional is.. there are professionals in ALL fields, professionals dont only exist in IT / Buisness.

pro·fes·sion·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-fsh-nl)
adj.

Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.

Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.

Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.

Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.

Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.

n.
A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
A skilled practitioner; an expert.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the "news" part of this? Or, is it just another one of MrGuvernment's threads to state old news, but make it sound like some hot off the presses, breaking news alert?

Yes, this is old news ? ?, that is why it pertains to leopard and Vista, dont have something nice to say, stay out of the thread , sorry i try to post information for people who may not otherwise of read it, at least i am trying to contribute to the forums.....

 

[six_storm]

WOW, you are so off on what a professional is.. there are professionals in ALL fields, professionals dont only exist in IT / Buisness.

Oh snap! He done pulled out the dictionary on me!!!! Haha. It's mainly a personal opinion but again, what does my opinion matter around here anyways?

 

[GreNME]

I am enjoying my iMac and using it for completing multiple tasks. In fact I enjoy it more than any PC I've ever owned. But hey, what does my opinion count here anyways?

Not a whole lot, since this is just an internet forum.

Good for you that you like what you're using. So do many other people who are using things different than you are. Poor you that you experienced trouble with Windows machines-- those are usually the result of following "tweak" sites that have you installing unreliable drivers, killing necessary services, and/or breaking the core components of the operating system under the pretense that it improves performance. I guarantee you that if you do the same on a Mac, you'll kernel panic so bad you'll be reminded of every bad experience you ever had with Windows.

Like I said, you're doing nothing but arguing the old Chevy/Ford argument, and you're downright bad at it.

 

[djnes]

at least i am trying to contribute to the forums.....

By rehashing old information and making it sound like something new? Sounds fun...let me try:

[NEWS] New Orleans residents.....take shelter now, for I fear a strong hurricane is coming your way! Leave now, time is limited!

Not to bad for my first try, eh?

 

[six_storm]

Not a whole lot, since this is just an internet forum.

Good for you that you like what you're using. So do many other people who are using things different than you are. Poor you that you experienced trouble with Windows machines-- those are usually the result of following "tweak" sites that have you installing unreliable drivers, killing necessary services, and/or breaking the core components of the operating system under the pretense that it improves performance. I guarantee you that if you do the same on a Mac, you'll kernel panic so bad you'll be reminded of every bad experience you ever had with Windows.

Like I said, you're doing nothing but arguing the old Chevy/Ford argument, and you're downright bad at it.

Thanks, you're not so bad yourself. I just put forth my opinion and as always, it just gets chopped up and thrown out to the dogs. Oh well.

 

[MrGuvernment]

By rehashing old information and making it sound like something new? Sounds fun...let me try:

[NEWS] New Orleans residents.....take shelter now, for I fear a strong hurricane is coming your way! Leave now, time is limited!

Not to bad for my first try, eh?

lol, you got it down pack!


i am just posting news that others sites post (usually slashdot), i didnt write this myself, and it seems to have sparked some conversation after all...

 

[djnes]

it seems to have sparked some conversation after all...

Indeed it has, considering argument = conversation on here.

 

[jimmyb]

Compared to the reaction the article got on /., the reaction here is downright tame.

 

[Snooble]

MAC GAMERS UNITE!

I got room in my broom closet for all 2 of you!