newb needs a UPS suggestion

redrage

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I don't know a lot about UPS's I just want one i can plug in and go......

I've had a few cheap APCs for home and at the office and then generally failed or the batteries didn't last long even though they where rarely or never used... Currently using a CyberPower 825AVR (non-LCD) and it just does not cut it, i over load it fairly often and it just shuts down after a minute or two. Usually when i'm data crunching AND then play'n agame or something load can jump to 500W+ (normally idle it is around 190-225W;

Currently I have my Main system (in sig), Cable Modem, wireless router and my Synology on it.

What I would like to do is to get one bigger UPS for my main system and one monitor and use the 825AVR for the Synology box and Modem/router and maybe a switch

SO I said all that to say... I need a suggestion on a decent cost effective UPS that can handle up to 600W when loaded with out bitching at me.. mind you I don't know much about them other than they make noises at me when they're not happy.

Thanks any suggestions appreciated!
 

redrage

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Thanks for the suggestion... that pointed me to this one:
http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Sinewave-Compatible-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W/ref=sr_1_40?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1368129582&sr=1-40&keywords=cyberpower+pfc

I didn't know about Sinewave.. really does explain a lot.. still don't know much about it though. the one linked above should be more than enough to handle my current config and I can use the current one on my fiance's computer or living room.... so i think i'll end up with that one unless someone knows better :)
 

drescherjm

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My recommendation is a refirbshed APC SmartUPS 1500 with new batteries from eBay. These are server grade UPSs and come with dual 12V 22Ah batteries (as a result it weighs 55lb) compare that to the dual 12V 7.2Ah or dual 12V 9.0Ah batteries you get from consumer models. You should be able to get one for under $200 shipped. This one is new / never used so I am unsure of the final price:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-SUA1500...erruptible_Power_Supplies&hash=item460f2c63ed

BTW make sure you get the 120V model. There is a 240V model that you do not want..
 

redrage

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Ended up ordering the cyberpower 1500/900W PFC from walmart site to store because i got 4% cashback and free shipping and i'm not in a huge hurry.... i speculate it will be more than enough as long as i don't do something stupid and plug my laser printer into it ;-)

I don't like to buy used things when i'm really not sure what i'm doing... I found out the hard way what I don't know can hurt me LOL. But doesn't seem like a bad idea for those that have an idea what they are doing.
 

dandragonrage

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drescherjm: I recommend you switch your recommendations in the future from the SUA1500 to the Powerware-made Dell K788N 1000W (yes W not VA) at RefurbUPS.

Boo to Cyberpower's transformerless cost-down+++++ UPS.
 

drescherjm

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drescherjm: I recommend you switch your recommendations in the future from the SUA1500 to the Powerware-made Dell 1000W (yes W not VA) at RefurbUPS.

Does not look like it has the battery capacity of the APC. Does that use 3 x 12V 9AH SLA batteries?
 

dandragonrage

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Does not look like it has the battery capacity of the APC. Does that use 3 x 12V 9AH SLA batteries?

It's a 36v system so yes, though probably 7Ah not 9Ah. 9Ah batteries are usually not actually 9Ah anyway. They're 7Ah when you buy them from a reliable battery company, not low-cost Chinese junk. I don't care if some no-name company puts a label on them claiming they're 1000000Ah. It's BS. We switched to Powerware from APC at work and I'm very happy with the decision. Their software support is also better. Free ESXi integration. Try getting anything out of APC beyond a stupid Windows application without paying any extra money, and have fun figuring out which of multiple different serial cable pinouts a particular model uses (it's unacceptable that they wouldn't just use a standard RS232 cable with no proprietary wiring). And then there's the crap I ranted about when Hurricane Irene left me without power for days and my APC SUA2200XL refused to use the charged car batteries I obtained until after it ran them out which is only useful for calibration that, in time of emergency, is of zero importance compared to having power. I don't like it when my electronics pretend they are smarter than me - they will NEVER be smarter than me. I will never buy or recommend another APC UPS.

Not that the SUA line is junk aside from it being useless in an emergency... but I'm really liking Powerware these days.
 
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ZzBloopzZ

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I am leaning towards the Dell K788N as it is $198 shipped. I need something for my new ESXi rig. However, it has a Seasonic X750... does this UPS play well with the X750 since it is an active PFC power supply?
 

curlysir

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I have a couple of Cyberpower 1285 models and they're great.
It looks like it's discontinued now and replaced by a 1350
http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1350AVRLCD-Intelligent-1350VA-Mini-Tower/dp/B000OFXKFI

I have 2 of the 1285's and have had good luck with them. I also have an APC that I have replaced the batteries on and use it on a spare system. I prefer the Cyberpower over the APC. If I were in the market for an UPS I would go with the 1350 you linked to.
 

DSee

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Just want to let you know I had a Cyberpower battery die on me after 2 years of light usage.

Maybe I just had bad luck, but batteries should last at least 4-6 years (IMO).
 

drescherjm

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Just want to let you know I had a Cyberpower battery die on me after 2 years of light usage.

Was it a single 12V 7AH battery or do you have more than 1 battery in your unit?
 

DSee

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Was it a single 12V 7AH battery or do you have more than 1 battery in your unit?

The faulty unit is: CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS 1350VA 810W.

I do have another Cyberpower unit that is working fine, but I will think twice before buying another unit now. Maybe spend the extra $$ on an APC unit.
 

drescherjm

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The faulty unit is: CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS 1350VA 810W.

That one takes 2 batteries. It sounds like you did not replace them yet. You should be able to get 2 9AH batteries shipped for around $50 US shipped. I recommend Tempest batteries.
 
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J Macker

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I do have another Cyberpower unit that is working fine, but I will think twice before buying another unit now. Maybe spend the extra $$ on an APC unit.

I've got three Cyberpower 1285VA units that I've been using for about 5-6 years and still haven't had to replace the batteries. *knock on wood* I'm pretty happy with the performance/cost of these and would be hard pressed to spend an extra $80-$100 for the equivalent APC unit.

Actually, the next thing I will invest in is a whole-house surge system. It's not too expensive at $200-$300.
 

drescherjm

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I have a few CyberPower units here at work (although surely not enough to be statistically significant). No problems so far. Actually we have a single server class 4 battery CyberPower 2200VA unit that I am amazed at how long the batteries have lasted. We are still running the factory batteries from 6 years ago. Again certainly not statistically significant..
 

dandragonrage

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I am leaning towards the Dell K788N as it is $198 shipped. I need something for my new ESXi rig. However, it has a Seasonic X750... does this UPS play well with the X750 since it is an active PFC power supply?

Pure sine transformer-based UPS work with every computer PSU ever made. It's only models that are transformerless and/or not pure sine that don't always work. Transformerless designs are lighter and sometimes slightly more efficient, but they provide MUCH less protection as any type of fault (input fault, battery fault, load fault, etc.) can propagate in any which way and can send line/battery issues to your load, or load/line issues to your battery, etc. Also can't hot-swap batteries (not a huge deal in the home). Not very good surge protection on them either (there COULD be decent surge protection, but since ALL transformerless UPS are super-cost-down models, none are good at that). The Cyberpower beats no UPS, but I'd only recommend it if the transformer-based options were several times the price. With great units like the Dell K788N available for not much more, I cannot recommend Cyberpower or APC Back-UPS line like the BR* series.
 

J Macker

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Pure sine transformer-based UPS work with every computer PSU ever made. It's only models that are transformerless and/or not pure sine that don't always work. Transformerless designs are lighter and sometimes slightly more efficient, but they provide MUCH less protection as any type of fault (input fault, battery fault, load fault, etc.) can propagate in any which way and can send line/battery issues to your load, or load/line issues to your battery, etc. Also can't hot-swap batteries (not a huge deal in the home). Not very good surge protection on them either (there COULD be decent surge protection, but since ALL transformerless UPS are super-cost-down models, none are good at that). The Cyberpower beats no UPS, but I'd only recommend it if the transformer-based options were several times the price. With great units like the Dell K788N available for not much more, I cannot recommend Cyberpower or APC Back-UPS line like the BR* series.

Thanks for the great info!
 

Xinmosni

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APC UPSes are great in my experience (both small business & enterprise support), but their cost can be a bit high for consumer use.

Main problem with buying UPSes used is that the batteries cost an arm and a leg to replace once they die. All batteries -- no matter what brand you go with -- will die, and when they die is more a luck of the draw than anything (the other part being environment). And to those hoping for 4+ years without having to replace batteries: sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. But don't blame the brand name just because you end up replacing 2 years in and completely forgot about the brown outs / heat / dust / static / etc. in your environment thrashing the UPS constantly. I'd be mad if anything lower than 2 years, but beyond that, be glad you got your money's worth.
 

ZzBloopzZ

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Ended up purchasing CyberPower Sinewave UPS's; 2x 1000VA ($110 Each) and 1x 1350VA ($140). Thank you SlickDeals! Found a guide on how to have these work with one of my ESXi server too. Boo Yaa!!

Hopefully they will be good enough.

Could not find much information on the Dell K788N, and no one was selling fresh batteries for them besides RefurbUPS. If they were ever to go out of business or stop selling that battery figured I would be SOL.
 

dandragonrage

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Ended up purchasing CyberPower Sinewave UPS's; 2x 1000VA ($110 Each) and 1x 1350VA ($140). Thank you SlickDeals! Found a guide on how to have these work with one of my ESXi server too. Boo Yaa!!

Hopefully they will be good enough.

Could not find much information on the Dell K788N, and no one was selling fresh batteries for them besides RefurbUPS. If they were ever to go out of business or stop selling that battery figured I would be SOL.

Really? ALL UPS use standard battery sizes. Almost all use one of only two sizes, 12V 7Ah or 12V 12Ah (that denotes energy not size but the size for each is standard).

You will need to run an actual VM to control the Cyberpower via their software. It's a terrible solution.

You made the wrong choice for someone using ESXi. But hey, it still beats no UPS.
 

haunter

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The faulty unit is: CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS 1350VA 810W.

I do have another Cyberpower unit that is working fine, but I will think twice before buying another unit now. Maybe spend the extra $$ on an APC unit.

back when I as still in desktop support I spent alot of time hitting the 3 year replacement window on all of our APC units

2 years is a bit short, but 4-6......I would call that lucky

where I work now, our big APCs...the batterys last around 3 years, at about $3K a pop.


as far as I know also, 'usage' doesnt matter, batterys have a life. as long as its 'plugged in' that clock ticks away
 

dandragonrage

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as far as I know also, 'usage' doesnt matter, batterys have a life. as long as its 'plugged in' that clock ticks away

Actually, usage absolutely matters and does affect the lifespan of the battery. If your UPS gets used fairly often due to crappy power, your batteries will die sooner. They are the same chemistry as a car battery, and you may already know that if your car battery runs out just a few times, that alone can cause you to need a new battery. UPS batteries are typically built to sustain being drained better than a cheap car battery, but it's still the same chemistry and they are far from perfect.
 

haunter

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you shouldnt be letting them drain all the way......ever. and yes thats generally pretty bad for batteries
 

ZzBloopzZ

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Really? ALL UPS use standard battery sizes. Almost all use one of only two sizes, 12V 7Ah or 12V 12Ah (that denotes energy not size but the size for each is standard).

You will need to run an actual VM to control the Cyberpower via their software. It's a terrible solution.

You made the wrong choice for someone using ESXi. But hey, it still beats no UPS.

Not anymore. Someone found a way without needing to control via VM's.

http://www.tinkertry.com/configure-automated-shutdown-homelab-datacenter-15-minutes/
 

ashman

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I've been selling APC units to my customers for years and using them at home myself. I only sell the SmarUPS series, usually the 1500 and the batteries generally seem to last 4-5 years which is what they are rated for anyway. Here in Canada there is a local outfit that sells refurbished units and batteries, so I bring my units to them when the batteries die and they replace them for about $75 dollars installed. I could replace the batteries myself and do for my clients when theirs die, it just easier for me to bring them in when mine die. You can check out their website they operate in the US and Canada.

www.upsforless.com
 
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