New Zune HD Details...

music is one thing for sure, I have 40 gigs or so.. and when you start adding in a couple movies and south park episodes to the mix, even a 64 gig starts to dwindle. I know the argument: why do you need all your music with you at once? Well, because I want it with me :)
 
JacobC1983 said:
music is one thing for sure, I have 40 gigs or so.. and when you start adding in a couple movies and south park episodes to the mix, even a 64 gig starts to dwindle.
Click to expand...

Yeah, plus I'm really interested in the game Apps, I imagine those will take up a bit of room as well. Audiosurf is one of my favorite timekillers on the PC and I love PGR4. I'm really hoping their Zune iterations live up to their big brothers.

I'm kind of wary of the PGR one though, since the series' creators, Bizzare Creations, left Microsoft for Activision. At least the guy who made Audiosurf is actually doing Audiosurf Tilt, so I'm pretty confident that will turn out well.
 
well, i got my zune hd, and iv played around with it a little.
None of my high def videos work on it without reencoding the video. :(
I thought with a specialized nvidia chip, the high profile encoding settings wouldnt cause a big problem.

however, i did get most of my xvid stuff to work on there without reencoding the video. Basically, any xvid video that is a packed bitstream, you just have use avidemux to make it an unpacked avi with AAC audio, then remux it to mp4. :D
the video ends up being choppy on the zune software, but plays smooth on the zune hd. which is weird.


also, what are the high profile features that the zune hd cant do? b frames? cabac? partitions?
im on old laptop, and doing controlled experiments to figure out how to make a zune compatable video will take alot of time, can someone with a corei7 figure it out for me lol?
 
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My suggestion would be to make very short clips.. a few seconds long.... I had some high definition tv episodes and it took a bit to get an encode that works on the HD..

I used ripbot264 and used the base 3.0 setting.. worked fine for hd video.. I'm sure it can do better if I tweak settings a bit, but that is a start at least.
 
edit:this only applies to the zune software, not the actual zune hd. yea, im disappointed too lol.

ok, i started testing out the high profile encoder settings that work on the zune hd.

so far, ref=3:bframes=3:me=umh:subq=9:mixed-refs=1:8x8dct=0:trellis=2:b-adapt=2:direct=auto:b-pyramid=1:weightb=1 in x264 has produced watchable level 3.1 720p videos.

the only thing i found that doesnt work is 8x8dct.

in reference, ipod touch is too slow to handle more than 2 ref frames, any b frames at all, and is too slow to handle cabac entropy coding, etc. iirc
i mean, really, this is ridiculous. if you're buying a player for videos, there is no contest. a video encoded for the ipod touch would have to be significantly larger to compare to the quality of one for the zune hd. and with those small hard drives, size matters. and then theres the oled screen.

shame no reviewer anywhere cared. i guess this is more of a thing only nerds would care about lol.
 
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grimreeferx09 said:
ok, i started testing out the high profile encoder settings that work on the zune hd.

HOLY CRAP, THIS THING DESTROYS THE IPOD IN THIS AREA!

so far, ref=3:bframes=3:me=umh:subq=9:mixed-refs=1:8x8dct=0:trellis=2:b-adapt=2:direct=auto:b-pyramid=1:weightb=1 in x264 has produced watchable level 3.1 720p videos.

the only thing i found that doesnt work is 8x8dct.

in reference, ipod touch is too slow to handle more than 2 ref frames, any b frames at all, and is too slow to handle cabac entropy coding, etc. iirc
i mean, really, this is ridiculous. if you're buying a player for videos, there is no contest. a video encoded for the ipod touch would have to be significantly larger to compare to the quality of one for the zune hd. and with those small hard drives, size matters. and then theres the oled screen.

shame no reviewer anywhere cared. i guess this is more of a thing only nerds would care about lol.
Click to expand...

What does all this mean for someone like me who plans to buy the AV dock so I can display the content on my TV? I have a whole bunch of .mkv HD video files, will I be able to convert them easily for use on the device and still maintain good quality?
 
grimreeferx09 said:
ok, i started testing out the high profile encoder settings that work on the zune hd.

HOLY CRAP, THIS THING DESTROYS THE IPOD IN THIS AREA!

so far, ref=3:bframes=3:me=umh:subq=9:mixed-refs=1:8x8dct=0:trellis=2:b-adapt=2:direct=auto:b-pyramid=1:weightb=1 in x264 has produced watchable level 3.1 720p videos.

the only thing i found that doesnt work is 8x8dct.

in reference, ipod touch is too slow to handle more than 2 ref frames, any b frames at all, and is too slow to handle cabac entropy coding, etc. iirc
i mean, really, this is ridiculous. if you're buying a player for videos, there is no contest. a video encoded for the ipod touch would have to be significantly larger to compare to the quality of one for the zune hd. and with those small hard drives, size matters. and then theres the oled screen.

shame no reviewer anywhere cared. i guess this is more of a thing only nerds would care about lol.
Click to expand...

What program are you using? I know that these are parameters for the encoder, but the program I'm using seems to take a different syntax.

So far I've only been able to get simple profile stuff to load to the zune without the software re-encoding it.
 
im using the latest handbrake snapshot
http://handbrake.fr/snapshot.php


i need to retract my statement from before. Although the software was playing the video fine, when i checked what was on the zune, it was a .wmv file using different video and audio compression. It was a small clip, so i didnt notice the conversion time.
so, at least we know the limits of the zune software lol.
ill try to find the best settings without additional conversion today.
 
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ok people, here's the best settings for x264 iv found that will go on a zune without the zune software reencoding it:
ref=5:bframes=0:me=umh:subq=9:mixed-refs=1:8x8dct=0:analyse=all:cabac=0

video has to be level 3.1 or lower, container has to be mp4/m4v, audio has to be AAC, resolution has to be 1280x720 or lower.

so, keep that in mind if you're gonna make a homemade bluray rip or dvd rip, or are going to convert some already existing thing to be zune hd compatible.

the zune hd specs say it supports b frames, but i cant get them to work. i dont know if that is a bug or not.
 
grimreeferx09 said:
that will go on a zune without the zune software reencoding it:
ref=5:bframes=0:me=umh:subq=9:mixed-refs=1:8x8dct=0:analyse=all:cabac=0
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I just tried converting a vid and it turned out fairly well. Was about half the size and looked decent enough. The biggest difference was it was kind of washed out compared to the original, but it still looked nice.
 
Keep in mind that Zune HD can only playback H.264 baseline profile clips at 720p. Anything that isn't compliant will be converted to a WMV file. Check out this clip that I made back in late August to see if you can play the clip with no conversions. Jodiuh said it worked fine with the brief moment he had it, but I'd like more feedback :D.

x264 is in constant developement, so what I did last month should be slightly better if redone today.

grimreeferx09 said:
the zune hd specs say it supports b frames, but i cant get them to work. i dont know if that is a bug or not.
Click to expand...

Yeah it says it supports Baseline profile + b-frames for up to 720x480 @ 30 FPS. But that means that you'll have to encode in a neutered Main profile (with identical limits as Baseline) but leave b-frames on. Baseline profile by itself can not support bframes.
 
Here's something I found on another forum:

The Official Zune HD encoder software from Microsoft

No more using Ripbot264 anymore & the best thing is freaking free, support 110% of the Zune. Xbox 360, Zune HD & Zune HD dock meaning full 720p & 5.1 ch ^_^

Step 2: download the software http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...5b-e5de-46c0-98cd-1be12eef89a8&displaylang=en
after that install it.

Step 3: you going to see import, click on that & then a window is going to pop up, *make sure that when you see on the right side say all files because this is the only way to import mkv files*.

Step 4: look for system menu it should be on the right side then look for encoding for device & pick WMV then look for VC-1 Zune HD or VC-1 Zune HD (AV Dock Playback) then click on the profile you want & click on apply, when you did it right the video will resize in 480x272 or 1280x720.

Step 5: encode your video & enjoy!

Tip: 1
Zune HD & Zune HD (AV Dock Playback) will encode your videos in 2-pass mode it should take a little bit longer but it will give you the best IQ.

Tip 2: to add subs, go to ffdshow video decoding settings & check the subtitles box then apply, now you should get english subs on the Zune HD program now.

Tip 3: some mkv files will give you a audio error in this software, it only happen when 2-pass is on but like i said it only happen to some mkv files so if you don't get the audio error then you should not change the VBR constrained in both video & audio settings but for those who has the problem. to fix this go to the Zune HD or Zune HD (AV Dock Playback) profile & go to video & change the VBR constrained to VBR Quailty & put the VBR quailty setting on 100 & for audio do the same but in audio the max is 98 after that it will temp save untill you add the next video, then do the same thing for the same video & etc.
Click to expand...
 
ashmelev75 said:
Here's something I found on another forum:
Click to expand...

That page says this

Note: This free version of Expression Encoder 3 does not include support for IIS Smooth Streaming and H.264 encoding. To use these features, upgrade to Expression Encoder 3 with IIS Smooth Streaming.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you want the .264 encoding or is that useless? I'm noob on this subject.
 
My 32GB Zune HD has finally arrived! I have to go pick it up after work, so this last couple hours is of course dragging by. :)
 
The Official Zune HD encoder software from Microsoft

No more using Ripbot264 anymore & the best thing is freaking free, support 110% of the Zune. Xbox 360, Zune HD & Zune HD dock meaning full 720p & 5.1 ch ^_^

Step 2: download the software http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en
after that install it.

Step 3: you going to see import, click on that & then a window is going to pop up, *make sure that when you see on the right side say all files because this is the only way to import mkv files*.

Step 4: look for system menu it should be on the right side then look for encoding for device & pick WMV then look for VC-1 Zune HD or VC-1 Zune HD (AV Dock Playback) then click on the profile you want & click on apply, when you did it right the video will resize in 480x272 or 1280x720.

Step 5: encode your video & enjoy!

Tip: 1
Zune HD & Zune HD (AV Dock Playback) will encode your videos in 2-pass mode it should take a little bit longer but it will give you the best IQ.

Tip 2: to add subs, go to ffdshow video decoding settings & check the subtitles box then apply, now you should get english subs on the Zune HD program now.

Tip 3: some mkv files will give you a audio error in this software, it only happen when 2-pass is on but like i said it only happen to some mkv files so if you don't get the audio error then you should not change the VBR constrained in both video & audio settings but for those who has the problem. to fix this go to the Zune HD or Zune HD (AV Dock Playback) profile & go to video & change the VBR constrained to VBR Quailty & put the VBR quailty setting on 100 & for audio do the same but in audio the max is 98 after that it will temp save untill you add the next video, then do the same thing for the same video & etc.
Click to expand...


After trying this program, and following your instructions if an audio error were to occur ...did not work.. This version of microsoft expression includes only converting to .wmv, not .mp4.... extra 40 bucks will get you the extended package tho ..with the x264 and whatnot
 
Just an FYI for anyone looking to buy the Zune HD and use its mobile browser at all....

the Zune HD CANNOT connect to wireless networks with a hidden SSID, or WPA 1 or 2 Enterprise networks...

Furthermore, the Zune HD will *not* allow a user to connect to a network that requires browser based authentication, such as a network at a wireless hotspot.... starbucks, airports, school networks, etc...

basically, the Zune HD's wireless capabilities are non-existent....

I personally had to endure all this shit with the Zune HD I purchased.... and after a few weeks, and with no response from MS, i'm returning this thing and getting a new iTouch (like many, many Zune HD owners are doing.... read the zune.net forums.... )

*fail*
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
Just an FYI for anyone looking to buy the Zune HD and use its mobile browser at all....

the Zune HD CANNOT connect to wireless networks with a hidden SSID, or WPA 1 or 2 Enterprise networks...

Furthermore, the Zune HD will *not* allow a user to connect to a network that requires browser based authentication, such as a network at a wireless hotspot.... starbucks, airports, school networks, etc...

basically, the Zune HD's wireless capabilities are non-existent....

I personally had to endure all this shit with the Zune HD I purchased.... and after a few weeks, and with no response from MS, i'm returning this thing and getting a new iTouch (like many, many Zune HD owners are doing.... read the zune.net forums.... )

*fail*
Click to expand...

Honestly, I love my Zune HD and I was never under any impression that it had a good web browser. I've dinked with it a couple of times but that's what my Touch Pro 2 and dataplan are for.

The Zune HD is MEDIA PLAYER! Firstly for music and then video. With a Zune Pass there's nothing like it.

This has been said a hundred times and I really have no idea why you got an HD expecting a good browser.
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
Just an FYI for anyone looking to buy the Zune HD and use its mobile browser at all....

the Zune HD CANNOT connect to wireless networks with a hidden SSID, or WPA 1 or 2 Enterprise networks...

Furthermore, the Zune HD will *not* allow a user to connect to a network that requires browser based authentication, such as a network at a wireless hotspot.... starbucks, airports, school networks, etc...

basically, the Zune HD's wireless capabilities are non-existent....

I personally had to endure all this shit with the Zune HD I purchased.... and after a few weeks, and with no response from MS, i'm returning this thing and getting a new iTouch (like many, many Zune HD owners are doing.... read the zune.net forums.... )

*fail*
Click to expand...

if all of this is true, then I must be special. I connect it to my hidden ssid network at home all the time as well as the wpa1 enterprise network at work. granted, i've not tried wpa2-enterprise.

i've also used it with no problem on browser authenticated networks such as denver international airport, exempla good samaritan hospital, our local starbucks, and our local panera bread.
 
svet-am said:
if all of this is true, then I must be special. I connect it to my hidden ssid network at home all the time as well as the wpa1 enterprise network at work. granted, i've not tried wpa2-enterprise.

i've also used it with no problem on browser authenticated networks such as denver international airport, exempla good samaritan hospital, our local starbucks, and our local panera bread.
Click to expand...

You definitely are special then.... check out the official zune boards...
http://forums.zune.net/515366/ShowPost.aspx

and

http://forums.zune.net/0/2/514249/ShowPost.aspx#514249

lastly, an OP by an actual zune HD team member...

http://forums.zune.net/522040/ShowPost.aspx

you're def special....

and my guess is that your AP at denver international somehow lets the zune ping w/e server it is it wants to ping to determine whether or not the network is a "local network", and so the zune sees it as an internet connected network off the bat..... which is BS honestly.... even if you want to connect to a local network (say... for wireless syncing), why the hell does the Zune team think they know better than you and disallow that?

Horrible.....

heatlesssun said:
Honestly, I love my Zune HD and I was never under any impression that it had a good web browser. I've dinked with it a couple of times but that's what my Touch Pro 2 and dataplan are for.

The Zune HD is MEDIA PLAYER! Firstly for music and then video. With a Zune Pass there's nothing like it.

This has been said a hundred times and I really have no idea why you got an HD expecting a good browser.
Click to expand...

Really? The Zune HD advertises itself as a media player that has a web browser.... as a result, i'd expect something that supported wireless features that almost every wireless device has had since 2004....

Most importantly, the Zune HD advertises itself as a competitor to the ipod touch, and the ipod touch has supported *basic wireless connectivity* since release.....

Honestly, I know you're a microsoft fanboy, but the Zune HD is *not* just a media player, and microsoft themselves have never advertised it as such.... (see box: in big letters "web browser")

seriously, lack of basic functionality is indefensible... *you* may be able to see past microsoft's painfully obvious and ridiculous mistakes, but most rational people cant....

check the forum posts in the links above.... they're gonna be getting *tons* of returns if they dont address the issue soon, there are a flood of posts on the zune.net forum stating as much....
 
ha ha! so, you're basing your "zune team" comments on something that some random person on a forum (even an official forum) posted as second hand knowledge and attributed to the zune team?

yeah, that's real official. I've got a camcorder. later today, I'll take video of my zune hd connecting to my non broadcasting network for you.
 
svet-am said:
ha ha! so, you're basing your "zune team" comments on something that some random person on a forum (even an official forum) posted as second hand knowledge and attributed to the zune team?

yeah, that's real official. I've got a camcorder. later today, I'll take video of my zune hd connecting to my non broadcasting network for you.
Click to expand...

jeeze, way to ignore just about *everything* you don't agree with :rolleyes:

"ooo, a forum post from someone claiming to be a member of the zune development team (who is a Mod on the official Zune.net forum no less...), that the entire zune.net forum recognizes and respects, i guess i can safely ignore the points he lists, and the tens of pages of linked forum posts detailing wireless problems that hundreds of other owners have posted with the zune HD now!".....

edit: if you can get a camera video showing the Zune HD connecting to a hidden SSID network, you really *are* special, and would make serious web news if you did..... so i'll (and many, many, many others) be eagerly awaiting....
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
edit: if you can get a camera video showing the Zune HD connecting to a hidden SSID network, you really *are* special, and would make serious web news if you did..... so i'll (and many, many, many others) be eagerly awaiting....
Click to expand...

I am going to stand up and take my licks on this one. I just proved myself somewhat wrong.

I was just recording the video and decided to do a completely clean reset on my wireless access point and my ZuneHD.

After that, it wouldn't connect. Then, it dawned on me. I didn't start using the WAP without SSID until after I had purchased my ZuneHD. So, it looks like the ZuneHD had "cached" the network ID of the WAP with that MAC address. Then, when the WAP had no SSID, the ZuneHD somehow still knew the SSID from its "cache."

It's not a true SSID-less connection because you have to have the SSID broadcast at some point and then later switch to SSID being hidden. This is something that I can definitely reproduce on video, but I am totally in the wrong about native hidden SSID as you described.

The other points I made I cannot prove on video right now because I don't have those configurations at home, but I stand by them working because I've used them.
 
svet-am said:
I am going to stand up and take my licks on this one. I just proved myself somewhat wrong.

I was just recording the video and decided to do a completely clean reset on my wireless access point and my ZuneHD.

After that, it wouldn't connect. Then, it dawned on me. I didn't start using the WAP without SSID until after I had purchased my ZuneHD. So, it looks like the ZuneHD had "cached" the network ID of the WAP with that MAC address. Then, when the WAP had no SSID, the ZuneHD somehow still knew the SSID from its "cache."

It's not a true SSID-less connection because you have to have the SSID broadcast at some point and then later switch to SSID being hidden. This is something that I can definitely reproduce on video, but I am totally in the wrong about native hidden SSID as you described.

The other points I made I cannot prove on video right now because I don't have those configurations at home, but I stand by them working because I've used them.
Click to expand...

The only time someone will take a bashing on this [H] forum is when they willfully refuse to accept being proven wrong, so dont worry about that....

you actually did prove that the HD could connect (somewhat) to a hidden SSID network.... I had assumed that even a cached network wouldn't work... but now that I know it can, that makes MS's decision to remove the ability to connect to a hidden network off the bat *that* much more baffling.....

I never said that regular WPA 1/2 wouldn't work (i use them with my HD), only enterprise, so no disagreement there...

i'm actually sort of amazed that there hasn't been much more coverage of the lack of Zune HD wireless capability around the web. most websites love the chance to bash microsoft... yet... not a peep on the wireless issue....
 
svet-am said:
if all of this is true, then I must be special. I connect it to my hidden ssid network at home all the time as well as the wpa1 enterprise network at work. granted, i've not tried wpa2-enterprise.

i've also used it with no problem on browser authenticated networks such as denver international airport, exempla good samaritan hospital, our local starbucks, and our local panera bread.
Click to expand...

Me too. My college requires both wpa and browser based authentication.
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
You definitely are special then.... check out the official zune boards...
http://forums.zune.net/515366/ShowPost.aspx

and

http://forums.zune.net/0/2/514249/ShowPost.aspx#514249

lastly, an OP by an actual zune HD team member...

http://forums.zune.net/522040/ShowPost.aspx

you're def special....

and my guess is that your AP at denver international somehow lets the zune ping w/e server it is it wants to ping to determine whether or not the network is a "local network", and so the zune sees it as an internet connected network off the bat..... which is BS honestly.... even if you want to connect to a local network (say... for wireless syncing), why the hell does the Zune team think they know better than you and disallow that?

Horrible.....



Really? The Zune HD advertises itself as a media player that has a web browser.... as a result, i'd expect something that supported wireless features that almost every wireless device has had since 2004....

Most importantly, the Zune HD advertises itself as a competitor to the ipod touch, and the ipod touch has supported *basic wireless connectivity* since release.....

Honestly, I know you're a microsoft fanboy, but the Zune HD is *not* just a media player, and microsoft themselves have never advertised it as such.... (see box: in big letters "web browser")

seriously, lack of basic functionality is indefensible... *you* may be able to see past microsoft's painfully obvious and ridiculous mistakes, but most rational people cant....

check the forum posts in the links above.... they're gonna be getting *tons* of returns if they dont address the issue soon, there are a flood of posts on the zune.net forum stating as much....
Click to expand...

My point isn't what Microsoft said about the device. Yes, the Zune HD has a web browser. So does a Commodore 64.

My point is that if you read the reviews and the commentary, its OBVIOUS that the HD has browser weaknesses. The box says web browser, not a great one. The MAIN problem with the Zune HD as a web browser is that the screen is too small. To be honest, I think the iPhone and iPod browsers suck a bit too. The resolution is too low. My Touch Pro 2 has a MUCH better browser. Now I admit that the iTouch browser is snappier but my gosh, the TP2 has 2.5 times the resolution in about the same size screen. Stuff looks SOOOO much better on the TP2.

So fan boy or no, I agreed with your basic premise, the HD web broweser sucks. All I was saying is WHERE did you get the impression otherwise? How many reviews said the HD web browser said the browser wasn't that great? I saw a ton.

And how many of those same reviews marveled at the HD's media abilities? They are AWESOME!!!! Especially with a Zune Pass.

All I'm saying is that if you had read a bit and asked you would have never come to the conclusion that the HD's browser is much to write home about. But to be honest, a PMP web browser is plain useless anyway. No 3G and the Zune screen is too small anyway. Most rational people would like to keep their eyesight.
 
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heatlesssun said:
So fan boy or no, I agreed with you basic premise, the HD web broweser sucks. All I was saying is WHERE did you get the impression otherwise? How many reviews said the HD web browser said the browser wasn't that great? I saw a ton.
Click to expand...

fact is, microsoft, and many, many of the reviews online weren't upfront about the shortcomings of the zune HD's wireless connectivity. the fact that enterprise, web based logins, and hidden SSID being unusable were all totally not mentioned in pretty much all reviews online is simply amazing....

you may not have cared about the browser in the Zune HD, but I, and many others *do*, so get over it. read the threads I posted, *tons* of college students and the like are completely passing this device over (and many are returning them) because of its uselessness for a quick read on the go.... something it would be OK at if it had *basic* wireless connectivity functionality.

just like you dont care about the zune HD's web functionality, most other people dont care for buying a smart phone and expensive data plan....

in short: it isn't unreasonable to expect a certain level of basic functionality....

personally... my Zune HD is being boxed up and ebayed (got it for a steep 55 dollar discount... would lose that if i simply returned the device), and with the proceeds, apple will be gaining one more iToucher (hmmm... that sounds so, so wrong....)

apple wins my money this round, sorry microsoft....
 
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brucedeluxe169 said:
fact is, microsoft, and many, many of the reviews online weren't upfront about the shortcomings of the zune HD's wireless connectivity. the fact that enterprise, web based logins, and hidden SSID being unusable were all totally not mentioned in pretty much all reviews online is simply amazing....

you may not have cared about the browser in the Zune HD, but I, and many others *do*, so get over it. read the threads I posted, *tons* of college students and the like are completely passing this device over (and many are returning them) because of its uselessness for a quick read on the go.... something it would be OK at if it had *basic* wireless connectivity functionality.

just like you dont care about the zune HD's web functionality, most other people dont care for buying a smart phone and expensive data plan....

in short: it isn't unreasonable to expect a certain level of basic functionality....

personally... my Zune HD is being boxed up and ebayed (got it for a steep 55 dollar discount... would lose that if i simply returned the device), and with the proceeds, apple will be gaining one more iToucher (hmmm... that sounds so, so wrong....)

apple wins my money this round, sorry microsoft....
Click to expand...

Cool, to each is own. I'll say it again, I have no idea why you got the HD in the first place. The thing is that a ton of people like to troll saying that got such and such and then complain about something that is a KNOWN weakness in a product. I mean I'm the supposed fan boy and I would have told you not to buy a Zune HD UNLESS you wanted the best MEDIA PLAYER on the planet and weren't looking for anything else beyond that.

And I guess screwing around with WiFi for net access on a mobile device is just primitive to me. Sorry! 3G tends to be a hell of a lot more reliable and more portable, at least with Verizon than WiFi.

If you care about browsing then yes, the Touch is a MUCH better device for you. See I can be honest and I can still love the hell out of my Zune HD! I wish more fan boys were like me!:D

Enjoy the iPod!
 
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heatlesssun said:
Cool, to each is own. I'll say it again, I have no idea why you got the HD in the first place. The thing is that a ton of people like to troll saying that got such and such and then complain about something that is a KNOWN weakness in a product. I mean I'm the supposed fan boy and I would have told you not to buy a Zune HD UNLESS you wanted the best MEDIA PLAYER on the planet and weren't looking for anything else beyond that.

And I guess screwing around with WiFi for net access on a device is just primitive to me. Sorry!

Obviously you didn't and decided to settle for an iPod Touch!:)
Click to expand...

well i got the zune HD because of the steep discount I received + the expectation that it would have certain *basic* functionality....

and you say that the network limitations were somehow a known issue of the Zune HD.... yet, they really werent.... other than the mass of people complaining on the official zune forum, you'd be hard pressed to find much coverage about the zune's lack of wireless capability anywhere else...

crap like this is why microsoft's reputation has suffered in recent years....
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
well i got the zune HD because of the steep discount I received + the expectation that it would have certain *basic* functionality....

and you say that the network limitations were somehow a known issue of the Zune HD.... yet, they really werent.... other than the mass of people complaining on the official zune forum, you'd be hard pressed to find much coverage about the zune's lack of wireless capability anywhere else...

crap like this is why microsoft's reputation has suffered in recent years....
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I NEVER said that the issues that you described were well known. There were a TON of other complaints about the browser. But honestly, look at the customer reviews of the device. They are VERY glowing overall. But the browser just isn't part of the equation for people who love this thing like me.

You don't like the device because of the browser. I agreed with you. But the Zune HD appears to be successful and like I said you never bought the device for its TRUE strength. And that's fine. This is a MEDIA PLAYER! It's not a web browser or a general app device.

There's FAR too many reviews that say EXACTLY this for you to claim ignorance on this issue.

The only "crap" that Microsoft pulled with this device is simply create the BEST PMP EVER IMHO. And once again, look at the reviews. It's nearly unanimous. I guess you could say that Microsoft shouldn't have bothered with the browser and that's a fair enough thing to say.
 
heatlesssun said:
I guess you could say that Microsoft shouldn't have bothered with the browser and that's a fair enough thing to say.
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nail on the head.

by advertising that it had one to begin with, microsoft implies a *basic level of functionality* that is simply not there.
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
nail on the head.

by advertising that it had one to begin with, Microsoft implies a *basic level of functionality* that is simply not there.
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But what is the "basic level" of functionality? That's a term that's only in your head, there's no standard definition for that phrase. My Zune HD works browser works for me thus far, not that I would ever use it. One could say that my situation is the "basic level" of functionality.

The bottom line is that you don't like the HD, fine. Your opinion is in the minority. The Zune HD is overall a solid success. Yes the HD has a web browser but you're making sound as the Microsoft pushed the browser heavily. No they didn't. It has a web browser and it does indeed have a basic level of functionality. I'm checking football scores with it now.
 
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it might work for you, but it doesnt work for many, many, many others... like I said, just check the official zune forums.... not everyone has such an impossibly low level of expectations as you do
 
All I was saying is that the user reviews for the HD are about through the roof. Obviously the browser issues are of little concern too the VAST majority of HD owners. Perhaps my expectations for the browser are low but I'm not alone.

Most people did not buy their HDs looking for much in the browser.
 
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