New Zune HD Details...

The browser renders webpages.. that is a basic level of functionality.. they never said it would be the best mobile browser or that every page would work.. they merely said "Hey, the Zune HD has a web browser if you want to web surf"

They have no way of knowing what sites you wanted to visit that don't render properly on the device. We knew going in that it was based on Mobile IE 6.. which isn't exactly the world's most capable web browser.

Personally, I don't care that the device has a browser at all.. the 3.3" screen is even less ideal than the 3.5" screen on the iPhone for web browsing, which wasn't that great to begin with.
 
read through the thread, my main problem with the zune is the pitiful wifi capability, which in turn leads to the browser being useless when not being used at home (for the most part)
 
Andrmgic said:
The browser renders webpages.. that is a basic level of functionality.. they never said it would be the best mobile browser or that every page would work.. they merely said "Hey, the Zune HD has a web browser if you want to web surf"

They have no way of knowing what sites you wanted to visit that don't render properly on the device. We knew going in that it was based on Mobile IE 6.. which isn't exactly the world's most capable web browser.

Personally, I don't care that the device has a browser at all.. the 3.3" screen is even less ideal than the 3.5" screen on the iPhone for web browsing, which wasn't that great to begin with.
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QFT!!!!

It's just hard for me to believe that ANYONE bought a Zune HD because of the browser or were expecting much from it.

There are just too many other issues far more problematic than the ones that brucedeluxe169 speaks of. To be honest the first signs of issues with anything beyond media playback with the HD was the fact that VERY LITTLE of non-media playback abilities were being shown in all of the videos and blogs.

And honestly, depending on WiFi for anywhere net access is a HUGE problem in and of itself. To me complaining about the HD's browser is like complaining about the toilet leaking after your house has been flooded. I think that a Touch sucks for web browsing as well. That's what a phone like 3G the Verizon Touch Pro 2 is for. You won't be web browsing in a car.

At any rate brucedeluxe169 you're right about the HD web browser. It's a big deal to you but not the vast majority of people who got the Zune HD. Web browsing is NOT what the device is for. And to be honest no 3.3" device with the HD's resolution would be in my opinion.
 
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
Jodiuh said it worked fine with the brief moment he had it, but I'd like more feedback :D
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I didn't wanna leave you in the dark so I picked one up one up last night. :D

That and iTunes tried to fight me the other day.

heatlesssun said:
The only "crap" that Microsoft pulled with this device is simply create the BEST PMP EVER IMHO.
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Excellent. I've recently returned my iPod touch due to the impending release of the Moto Sholes which will take care of my portable browsing needs and am currently looking for the best PMP ever. So you have gone ahead and compared the HiFiMAN HM-801, Sandisk Clip, Cowon S9, Samsung P3, Sony X1000, Sony NWZ-S639F, Teclast T51, iPod touch, and Amped 3 to the Zune HD for me? Excellent! :D

brucedeluxe169 said:
...my main problem with the zune is the pitiful wifi capability, which in turn leads to the browser being useless when not being used at home...
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You do realize the browser is useless at home too, right?

I don't suppose anyone here has had the unique opportunity to compare any of the previous PMP's listed above? I picked up the Zune again to compare w/ a cheap clearanced Sony 639 which I hoped would be able to compare w/ the 3G touch's sound quality...alas it could not.

This 2nd audition of the Zune has been interesting however as I'm no longer looking @ it as a competitor to the iPod, but solely as a music player. And for that purpose it excels. I am however curious as to the other players and will probably end up ordering an S9 to compare as that seems to be tops @ head-fi. Unless of course or good fella Bruce wants to hook up a fella [H] user w/ his crappy Zune browser. :D
 
Jodiuh said:
Excellent. I've recently returned my iPod touch due to the impending release of the Moto Sholes which will take care of my portable browsing needs and am currently looking for the best PMP ever. So you have gone ahead and compared the HiFiMAN HM-801, Sandisk Clip, Cowon S9, Samsung P3, Sony X1000, Sony NWZ-S639F, Teclast T51, iPod touch, and Amped 3 to the Zune HD for me? Excellent! :D
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I've researched all the devices you mentioned, save the Teclast which I just read up on a little. The Zune HD has one MAJOR advantage over all of them, Zune Pass. Now I know that you can get Rhaposdy on the iPod and I don't know a lot about how well that works, its not big deal on iPones/IPods for now from what I can tell.

I understand that a lot of audiophiles need their lossless stuff and Zune Pass wouldn't be for them. But being just a regular guy that wants to listen to stuff, the Zune Pass makes all of the difference. If you have a large existing and/or static collection and just need a player, then something the like S9 makes a lot of sense, its probably a better standalone player than the HD. But I like too listen to new stuff. The Zune software and the pass make that fun and easy. It adds a whole new dimension to the device.

I will never use a PMP again that doesn't offer some type of unlimited music subscription service. I can put a static collection on anything and be happy. Its all about getting new stuff and stuff on demand for one flat fee for me. Sure there's torrents and P2P and pay per song services like iTunes (which I do use from time to time), but they have no where NEAR the usability of something like Zune Pass. Smart DJ has change my life!
 
What kind of quality does that come down in? I haven't tried the Zune pass yet, but I've a friend who's as Zuned out as you on it. :D

Right now my major bitches seem to be it getting warm doing nothing and the lack of any kind of simple controls. I think I'm going to order the S9 tomorrow. It needs a fair shot. :D
 
Jodiuh said:
Unless of course or good fella Bruce wants to hook up a fella [H] user w/ his crappy Zune browser. :D
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I actually cleaned it up, boxed it, and put it on sale on the FS/FT subforum, to be moved to ebay if I dont sell it in 2-3 days. I got it steeply discounted, so I dont want to return it and lose the discounts I received :)
 
Jodiuh said:
What kind of quality does that come down in? I haven't tried the Zune pass yet, but I've a friend who's as Zuned out as you on it. :D

Right now my major bitches seem to be it getting warm doing nothing and the lack of any kind of simple controls. I think I'm going to order the S9 tomorrow. It needs a fair shot. :D
Click to expand...

192 kbps. I'm not a big time audiophile so everything sounds fine to me. Honestly, its either something like a Zune Pass or P2P if you don't have issues with that sort of thing. I really can't imagine music anymore without something like Zune Pass. Besides being legal is has SO many advantages over P2P that the $15 is just worth it. The content is just an added bonus really. For one, no more music file management! It's not necessary for the most part with a Zune Pass.
 
heatlesssun said:
For one, no more music file management!
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Lame. Real men go hunting through folder after folder for album art, then search for them on google, resize, search for some freeware program to tag them, nope doesn't work, gotta find something else...then go...

Yeah, that must be pretty slick. I'm gonna give Media Monkey a try especially given such high marks from Impulse. At least I won't have to add a folder everytime I add files ala iTunes. :D

192 probably wouldn't cut it for me though. 256 can grate at times. I'm really looking forward to A/B ing some FLAC vs 320's. I HOPE I can't tell the difference.
 
Jodiuh said:
192 probably wouldn't cut it for me though. 256 can grate at times. I'm really looking forward to A/B ing some FLAC vs 320's. I HOPE I can't tell the difference.
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I guessed that Zune Pass wouldn't be for an audiophile but its still a hell of a way to easily and quickly check stuff out if you like to tryout different stuff.

As for the Zune client the more I use it the more I love it. All you have to do is create an artist directory an album directory and that's it. Zune takes care of the rest very well though the album art might be a problem for some, just 75x75 and 200x200 at least by default. But again I don't care. I've tried some really badly tagged stuff and it pretty much get everything right.

Microsoft has created a music platform with the Zune that's just nice, simple, and afforable.
 
I just want my awesome Rio Karma playlists back. :(

Well, that and a really wicked smart pandora-ish streaming service w/ FLAC quality completely on device w/ full artist biographies, pictures, videos, and related artist recommendations for $5 a month.

Really though a partnership between...oh say...Firefox, Cowon, and Pandora w/ a WiFi-ed S10 would flip me out. It would have a speaker, 1280 x 720p res, 4.3" screen, kick stand, and an HDMI port. Dude can dream, right?
 
Jodiuh said:
I just want my awesome Rio Karma playlists back. :(

Well, that and a really wicked smart pandora-ish streaming service w/ FLAC quality completely on device w/ full artist biographies, pictures, videos, and related artist recommendations for $5 a month.

Really though a partnership between...oh say...Firefox, Cowon, and Pandora w/ a WiFi-ed S10 would flip me out. It would have a speaker, 1280 x 720p res, 4.3" screen, kick stand, and an HDMI port. Dude can dream, right?
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The Zune as a platform, taking the device,accessories, and Zune client actually does much of this of but course for $15 a month.

Personally though I like the size of the HD. I actually like to see it get a bit thinner and keeping the screen the same size. The damn thing is so light and I love that.

If I may ask, what did you like so much about Rio Karma playlists?
 
Rio DJ:

* Entertain Me!: Generates playlist from most frequently played music. Mix can last 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 1, 2, 3, 4, or 8 hours.
* Play All: Play everything and automatically sort by album, artist, genre, or year.
* Top Tunes: Play the most frequently played tracks. You can choose from the top 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 100, or 250 songs.
* New Music: Play the most recently imported tracks. Choose from music imported in the last 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 6 months, or 1 year.
* Memory Lane: Play tracks that haven't been played in a while. Choose from music not played in the last 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 6 months, or 1 year.
* Sounds Of…: Play tracks from the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, or newer than 2000
* Forgotten Gems: Play old favorites that haven't been played in the last 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 6 months, or 1 year.
* D¿j¿ Vu: Play tracks that have been played in the last 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 6 months, or 1 year.
* Random Mix: Generate a random list lasting 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 1, 2, 3, 4, or 8 hours.

I also found an image of the excellent dock.

rio_karma_prev_dock_back_big.jpg


3 things here. First, you now had a network music server. Second, you had a true line out for an amp. Third, and most importantly, it had a soft blue fade in/fade out glow.
 
Thanks. Zune's Autoplaylist actually does all of this or if not most of this. It may not work quite the same but if you look at the Zune Autoplaylist builder looks like all the options are there.

EDIT: I never looked at the Zune's Autoplaylist before now so thanks for brining up the Rio DJ. After looking at it I do indeed believe that everything that you mentioned in the Rio DJ can be done with Autoplaylists. The only thing was Forgotten Gems that I'm not sure about as there's no way to pick songs by when they were last played. But you could build a list that was sorted by least played and limited the number and achieve the same thing I believe.
 
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I understood that, I was assuming that you looking for something now that did something though I would assume that all apps do this now though not with the sheer beauty of the Zune player. I just do have much draw to autolists.

Actually the Zune player is a fantastic media player, it should be the default media player in Windows.
 
I'm looking for something w/ a volume rocker. :D Night bud, I need sleep. My Cowon comes tomorrow and I'm probably as excited as you were about the TP2 arrival.
 
I expect that you'll like the S9 as I've seen a lot of people that seem to be looking for features similar to you seem to love it. I actually was totally surprised by the TP2 as Verizon got out a first batch fast and I wasn't expecting it until December.

Pleasant Dreams!
 
heatlesssun said:
Actually the Zune player is a fantastic media player, it should be the default media player in Windows.
Click to expand...

Yes. I think Zune itself should replace windows media player. The library management actually works, and the info it grabs for your media is awesome, and actually looks nice..

I'm really liking Zune Pass. The 10 song credits per month really won me over.

I'm actually stunned how great this all works. I actually *want* to add my library of music into Zune's management!
 
4. Cowon S9 ownage time: T Minus 16 hours and counting...

What I learned so far from this experience is that I'm far and away and audio junkie as opposed to anything else. And I think I'm willing to deal w/ a little odd GUI and lack of WiFi (since that's not really what I'm looking for anyway) to get the very best.

If anyone's curious, Techfreakazoid's impressions on the Sony X vs Cowon S9 vs Touch 2G @ Head-Fi are some of the best I've read.

EDIT: Ok, I'm not willing to deal w/ a terrible GUI.

I just got this in the mail today and there's most definitely double clicking going on everywhere in the OS. To make matters worse the capacitive screen feels more like a resistive one. I knew this would be a rough road coming from a 3G iPod touch 32GB, but I feel like I'm in the stone age. Kinetic scrolling's terribly slow, cover flow is a joke, and it took nearly 2 hours to load up what took the iPod and Zune 20 minutes of songs. Also interesting is that the device gets warm from simply starting up a song! The iPod needed at least 15 solid minutes of 3D gaming for that to happen. Of course it won't play videos that played fine on the Zune HD, Sony X, and the iPod.

More impressions: It's not just double clicking, but triple clicking, and sometimes quadruple clicking. If unresponsive screens piss you off, this is not the player for you! I'd be willing to forgive one or two issues, but after connecting via MTP mode which supposedly supports faster write speeds, I couldn't WRITE to the drive. Also, and I know I'm nitpicking here, but one of my pet peeves on a portable device or any electronic device is heat output. Why is my hand getting hot when I'm listening to music? This is not 2003. Also, the screen lives in fingerprints. It's by far the worst offender out of all of them.

Sound Quality

3G iPod touch 32GB (no eq, they're pretty bad)
Zune HD 16GB (no eq, same)
Sony NWZ-X1051 (no eq, clear bass 1 or 2, some fiddling)
Cowon S9 (BBE Viva, tried normal, minimal user 1 attempt)

Headphones:

Etymotic ER6i
Sennheiser HD580 w/ PIMETA built by MisterX tailored for the 580's

Songs:

Akon - Keep you much longer
Oakenfold - Words for love
Hans Zimmer Angels and Demons OST - 503
Imogen Heap - Hide and Seek

I'm going to keep this short and simple as it's been about a month and I haven't had them all at the same time, so my memory's a little vague on the details. Also, I'm not that great w/ the audiophile glossary, occasionally getting things wrong and stuff, so take it FWIW.

-3G Touch
The new touch to my ears sounds a lot more exciting than the 2G. Somehow my head actually managed to bop to Akon w/ the Ety's, a wild feat considering how bass anemic they are. The details and clarity from 503 never felt too congested, but didn't stun me like another player. Through the amp and Senn's the touch really came alive. The 2 pair together very, very well. I never felt like anything came across too harsh and never had to put down my headphones due to fatigue. Still, it wasn't as thrilling or involving as another player.

-Zune HD
Overall, I would say this player's synergy w/ the Senn's came across about as well as the touch. Both DAPs sounded very smooth w/ the 580's, but the Zune had a seemingly larger soundstage and what seemed more clarity and texture to Imogens synthed vocals. Words for Love also had a bit more foot tapping going on. A decent notch up from the touch both on the Ety's and the Senns for this player.

-Sony X
Heaven. I'm sure a person's ears have a lot to do w/ it, but this player wo/ eq sounded absolutely fantastic w/ everything. Especially complex passages. 503 literally caused me to sit up and jaw drop because of the presence and clarity given to the various strings crossing paths towards the end of the track. Just as well, anything from the Tranceport (Oakenfold) flew by w/ amazing speed. Nothing is too fast for this player. The synergy between the Senns and my ears w/ this player were perfect for Akon as nothing sounded too harsh and I could listen for hours to this combo. The bass sounded tight and very controlled, very un klipsch promedia like. This was my favorite player by far.

Cowon S9
My biggest disappointment. Maybe my ears are broken. Maybe they're too sensitive. Maybe the player is broken? But it actually gave me a headache! The Ety's worked out ok w/ this player, but the Senn's seem to sparkle w/ a cold and harsh smearing to every vocalist. It becomes a bit less rough when I turn off BBE Viva, but then the whole player sounds a bit like a 2G iPod...boring. My biggest beef w/ this player was that it just sounds unnatural, ie undefined bass, smearing highs. 503 seems to lose instruments and the strings all mess together. It almost sounds like I'm listening to MP3's in a lower bitrate?! Akon's track was incredibly harsh, to the point I couldn't even continue to finish it. The soundstage's definitely freaked me out a little w/ Imogen's voice. But once again, the player just seems harsh no matter what settings I threw at it...eq, wide, narrow, normal, bbe, enhance, etc.

I'd love to hear anyone's comments on this. Do you think it's the synergy? Maybe I'm just a warm kinda guy? FWIW, I got a chance to listen to some Grado SR125's briefly out of the touch in a car and though they were a bit too fatiguing and forward for me.
 
There's a new update available for the Zune HD that seems to have greatly improved performance with the web browser. The new version is 4.3, which replaces the 4.1 firmware, and it includes a variety of fixes and tweaks. It fixes the bug involving song playcounts, adds support for upcoming 3D games, adds auto-suggest for better text input, and other "minor improvements" to the device. That includes improvements to the web-browser.

Prior to getting the update I loaded the non-mobile Engadget site and it took 29 seconds to render the page fully. I then updated the Zune, and actually went into the Internet settings and cleared out my history and what not. I went to Engadget again and everything loaded in under 14 seconds. The full desktop version of [H]ardOCP loaded in about 8 seconds. A lot of the mobile sites are quicker as well. The Green Bay Packer's mobile site, along with MSN's mobile page, loaded in about 3 seconds. This browser became a lot more usable!

Here's a rundown:

- Support for the upcoming 3D games and applications.
- Auto Suggest feature for text input.
- Faster web browsing experience.
- Landscape keyboard
- Keyboard option has been added in the settings section.
- New toggle between seek and presets under Radio.
- Under the Internet in settings, you can now toggle to default mobile or desktop webpage layout.
- Artists bios are updated; embedded links to other artists in text.
- Other bug fixes.
 
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Thanks for the info! The new word suggestion is pretty cool. Just did the update and making this post from the HD. Not quite as painful as before. Still no arrow keys!

Can't wait for the games!
 
heatlesssun said:
The Zune as a platform, taking the device,accessories, and Zune client actually does much of this of but course for $15 a month.

Personally though I like the size of the HD. I actually like to see it get a bit thinner and keeping the screen the same size. The damn thing is so light and I love that.

If I may ask, what did you like so much about Rio Karma playlists?
Click to expand...

What I like about the Karma is on the fly editing of play lists. Things may have changed, but when it was released, it was the only one that allowed you to build and edit your play list while you were playing it.

All the other stuff didn't interest me as much. What I always wanted was the ability to play random albums. I'd also like the ability to say that a given album some albums can't be broken up into individual songs. Examples might include virtually any Pink Floyd album or live album.

I also wish all players came with a decent EQs.
 
The Sony X has a fantastic EQ. Simple, yet very effective for pairing w/ your cans and/or genre of music.
 
It didn't take them long to put up a bunch of 3D games, after this new update added features to take advantage of them. Head to the Zune Marketplace now to download 5 or 6 new games that came out today. I have PGR downloading right now. Also, remember... you can download apps right from the Zune, so you don't have to do it on your PC and sync!
 
Pretty cool, from what I understand the games are free just play short 5-10 seconds Zune ad's when it starts up.
 
Blazestorm said:
Pretty cool, from what I understand the games are free just play short 5-10 seconds Zune ad's when it starts up.
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Yup. I haven't tried all the games yet, but the ones I did download have a single, static ad-banner at the startup that lasts for about 5 seconds. I don't mind it considering the games are free.
 
Audiosurf is pretty nice. Piano is a bit meh. I'm waiting for PGR to finish downloading. Hold 'Em has an update, too.
 
I still haven't played some of the new games, like the skating game, but PGR is pretty cool. It has a career mode and you can do all the usual stuff you expect to be able to do in a Project Gotham Racing title. You earn Kudos points during races, unlock/buy more cars, earn trophies, etc. You don't have to play a career game, and can just do quick races as well. On top of that it looks like you can submit your times and even ghost cars online. I'll have to explore that part more, but I've only done a couple races in the career mode.

Audiosurf Tilt is pretty cool. The first time I played it I picked a pretty mellow song, so the track didn't have a lot of bumps and what not. I'll have to think of some good music I have in my collection and try that out. This is the first time I've played the game, but it looks like you can unlock new track designs with points you earn playing the game.

The Piano is kind of neat, simply because it's of course mutli-touch and you're playing the piano by touching a glass screen. My wife can actually play the piano and when I showed it to her she started playing the beginning to a Beethoven song (can't remember the name), and it sounds really good. I had hooked the Zune up to my PC speakers when I showed her.

Bowling is kind of cool for the simple fact it has achievements :) I earned two achievements in my first game. One for picking up a spare and another for getting a strike. There's achievements for getting a split (actually a few different types of splits), etc. You can play the game two different ways. You can use the touch-screen to thrown the ball, or you can use the Zune like a Nintendo Wii-Mote, and actually swing the Zune forward. Doing it that way you can put spin on the ball by tilting the Zune left or right while you swing. Using the touchscreen you aim the ball by moving it from left to right. Then you slide your finger up the screen to throw it. If you put an arc in your trace pattern up the screen, then you'll put spin on the ball.

I think Checkers is a new game. I played that on easy, and it is what it is. It's checkers. Like almost all the Zune HD games it has online multiplayer with other Zunes, but I just played the computer on easy. I beat him quite easily.

I haven't tried the other games yet, but I have them all downloaded. Maybe I'll do the skate game next.

It's just too bad they didn't design this with a Gamerscore like the Xbox, and earning achievements in a game increases your gamerscore. I wouldn't even care if it was a seperate gamerscore from Xbox Live, it'd just be cool to have. You gotta' think somebody has suggested it. The player itself has "Badges" you earn playing music.
 
With Twittter and Facebook apps the Zune HD will officially be a great time killer! AudioSurf is my favorite app in this bunch, it definitely is more interesting to play it on a small device than on a laptop of desktop, at lest with no motion controller.
 
PGR is awesome, I didn't think that a game like this could be so good on the zune. Audiosurf is really fun, an hour went by fast. The skating game was meh, I only spent a minute or two on it and I couldn't really find out how to do cool tricks so it got boring fast.
 
Yeah, Audiosurf is just the perfect game for a Zune. And PGR is cool too. Those two games show the potential for this device.

Microsoft simply needs to get its act together and get a REAL development and deployment system setup. You'd get TONS of apps for this thing in no time and really tighten the distance with the iPod Touch. With apps this device is would easily be a Touch's equal.
 
Good to hear of these new games coming out. Gonna have to check them out at my buddies place.
 
heatlesssun said:
Yeah, Audiosurf is just the perfect game for a Zune. And PGR is cool too. Those two games show the potential for this device.

Microsoft simply needs to get its act together and get a REAL development and deployment system setup. You'd get TONS of apps for this thing in no time and really tighten the distance with the iPod Touch. With apps this device is would easily be a Touch's equal.
Click to expand...

QFT! If there was an apps store where I could write and publish apps for the Zune in a legitimate way, I'd be all over this device as a developer. I already have several ideas for apps that I think a lot of people would like, but hesitate given the non-existant state of an apps store.
 
svet-am said:
QFT! If there was an apps store where I could write and publish apps for the Zune in a legitimate way, I'd be all over this device as a developer. I already have several ideas for apps that I think a lot of people would like, but hesitate given the non-existant state of an apps store.
Click to expand...

It's coming I hear but I don't know why Microsoft isn't getting more info out to devs right NOW. Of course you can use Visual Studio to do some stuff now but it is an afterthought. At any rate Microsoft is aware what needs to be done, they just a little more time getting it together is what people are telling me. We shall see.

There a LOT of potential for Microsoft with Zune and WinMo. They better not screw this up. There are the BRINK of redefining the mobile space if they just get the simple things right.
 
Like the fact that the games are free. I would like to see Microsoft open their apps up to third parties. Piano was fun for a few minutes. Audiosurf is the one for me.
 
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