New Tariffs Target U.S. Board Games and Game Consoles

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by cageymaru, May 24, 2019.

  1. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    According to a report from GameDaily.biz, a 25% tariff is scheduled to affect the board games industry, coin-operated arcade machines and video game consoles. This includes items like poker cards, dice, and related items. The list of items is found here.

    “Small games companies and individuals that have funded projects through crowdfunding platforms like Kickstarter could be driven completely out of business by delays and additional costs,” he posited. “The industry is entering the summer convention season where shortages, shipping delays and higher costs could be devastating to companies marketing new games and needing convention revenue to offset the costs of exhibiting. A slowdown or increased costs could destabilize the whole product chain, as the games industry relies on front list instead of back list products.”
     
  2. clockdogg

    clockdogg Gawd

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    25% tariff on playing cards? Ouch. But as they say... have to play 75% of the hand you're dealt.
     
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  3. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    So a tariff because they want jobs back here... yet not so ironically, even with the increased tariffs it is still drastically cheaper to import than make locally.
     
  4. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    Not necessarily more expensive to make them here in the USA. The problem is that none of the companies are willing to make a run of only 2,000 copies in the USA. It isn't worth their time to do it. But in China there are companies willing to take on work like that. You know how we do it; big company buys up all of the smaller outfits and then monopolizes the market.

    “The [hobby games] manufacturing infrastructure in the United States has basically collapsed in the last 20 years,” Stacy told Polygon. “The expertise and the specialization is simply not there. Obviously, we still have some big manufacturers in this country, but they can’t do smaller products in the volumes that we’re buying them in — 2,000 copies or whatever — because it’s cost prohibitive to buy that small of a quantity from a U.S. company. So our members have to go overseas to buy them. That’s what allows them to actually keep their doors open, because the margins are so thin in our industry.”
     
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  5. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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  6. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    Seems to me, the issue is these hobby games are only targeting one market, and aren't willing / able to target markets other than our own. If they did, not only would they be able to make more money, but they'd be able to justify a larger production run. Instead, they charge a premium for a manufactured niche, and now they are paying the price.
     
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  7. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    I can't make 2 cents of this article, was it written by a 3rd grader?


    China doesn't make game consoles... soooo?
     
  8. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    Well there are only so many people that want to play certain types of games. That's why they end up going through a Kickstarter campaign to get funded. Does that mean the game shouldn't be created? No, it just means that only 2,000 copies need to be created until more people sign up for the product.

    Massdrop is a company that caters to low quantity sellers. The keyboards, audio equipment, etc that is sold on the site caters to geeks and enthusiasts. But they can't sell that stuff at Walmart. How many people want a $1,000 set of headphones? But since some do, it is usually made in China because they are the only ones willing to do it in low quantities.
     
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  9. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    Just read this. CTRL F and type in the keyword that you want to search for like video game, console, etc.
    https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/84_FR_22564.pdf

    Well the motherboards for consoles are usually made in China right? I don't keep up with consoles but I'd bet Foxconn makes a few of them.
    https://www.reference.com/business-finance/xbox-manufactured-a477fd2034f807d2

    Released in November 2001, the original Xbox console was made in Guadalajara, Mexico. Its successor, Xbox 360, was made in the Pearl River Delta region of Southern China. As of September 2014, Xbox One is being manufactured in Shanghai, China.
    The American company, Microsoft developed Xbox and gave a contract to Flextronics for the manufacture of its consoles. Flextronics have manufacturing units in many countries around the world including the United States, Brazil, Mexico, Hungary, Poland, China, India and Malaysia. Xbox 360 was manufactured by Flextronics, Wistron, Celestica and Foxconn, all of whom have manufacturing units in South China. As of September 2014, Xbox One is being manufactured by Flextronics and Foxconn.
     
  10. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    An ac unit i purchased not 2 months ago jacked up slightly more than the 25%. No no effects.. nothing will ever happen.. /s
     
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  11. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    All three console manufactures use Chinese companies for console production. The PS4, XB1, Switch, and 3DS are all shipped around the world, from China.
     
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  12. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    They could ship back to japan and box them up and avoid.

    Well Xbox can’t. I thought Taiwan did a lot of the final assembly after Foxconn, but I’m too lazy to look on the bottom of my ps4.
     
  13. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

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    What unit?
     
  14. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    So you think they can ship to Japan, set up brand new packing lines, pay people to pack the systems, and then ship them out for free?

    As far as I could find the PS4 is still China, but its possible what I found was outdated. I am also too lazy to look.
     
  15. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This is exactly what started the American Revolution.


    Uh-oh.
     
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  16. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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  17. ND40oz

    ND40oz [H]ardForum Junkie

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    They aren't giving any discounts if I ship directly to Europe, so if they jacked the price over the tariffs, they're doing it for their entire customer base.
     
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  18. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    it's been a good 30 years since my high school history class, but I seem to recall that was due to the fact goods were ONLY allowed to come from British ships, and hence the tariff means conflict of interest.
     
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  19. motomonkey

    motomonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    Go to kickstarter and look in the games section. You will find an amazing assortment of projects, some of the board games run well over $100 with complex rules, high end wooden or resin pieces and nice heavy boards and other components. Most of these never sell more than a few thousand copies, and they ship all over the world, it's a niche market and a tariff like this will simply destroy it. some of these Kickstarter games go on to become successful commercial games, you've probably seen them for sale in bookstores.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  20. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    If they are sold all over the world then the terrif won't be an issue unless the parts they're made of are affected. Games sold outside the US and made outside the US aren't affected by US tarrifs.
     
  21. motomonkey

    motomonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    Nearly all of these games are produced in China.
     
  22. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yes, yes, the world is coming to an end and we need to instead give in and let others take advantage of us, like it has been. :D ;)
     
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  23. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    We've been taking advantage of China (and their population) just as much as they have been taking advantage of us. The whole "woe is me" attitude we have about countries being "unfair" to the US is utterly ridiculous and ignores just how "unfair" we treat everyone else.
     
  24. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Oh man, you are so full of it on both ends. :D Ain't no woe is me, simply that the USA is here to take care of the USA, regardless of the fact that we tend to take care of others were are not even obligated to do. (And thankless folks, at that.)
     
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  25. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    We're doing a pretty shit job of taking care of our own country.
     
  26. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Better than we were but, it is rather slow going and things cannot be reversed all at once, anyways. I have no issues with the attempts at tariffs or not knowing what is going on all the time, that is part of the challenge.
     
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  27. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    The biggest issue with the tariffs are, really, the people at the top of both counties. Everyone is too bullheaded to back down a little and try to figure out a reasonable solution that doesn't hurt the common people.
     
  28. motomonkey

    motomonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    You seem to be forgetting the entire reason we started these tariffs in the first place, China has been blatant about technology thefts and unfair trade practices for decades. Now we are addressing the issue at a time when we have the upper hand in that our economy is able to tolerate a setback due to a trade war, and China's isn't.

    China is in the same position we were right before the Subprime mortgage crisis, they have a huge amount of unsecured domestic debt and if their economy slows due to a trade war, it could be devastating for the Chinese and they know it.

    We are at war with China, it's a "soft" war, so far, but make no mistake, it's still a war. People piss and moan about how terrible the US is now, and ignore the fucking monster China is.
     
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  29. DanNeely

    DanNeely 2[H]4U

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    Only if they're also direct shipped from China to global customers.

    The games I've bought from Kickstarter were all bulk shipped to the US in container and thus hit by the tariff, and then sent to individual backers separately (potentially after being aggregated with other rewards from different suppliers).
     
  30. Retronym

    Retronym Something big is coming.

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    playing cards?

    *waves hands sarcastically*


    oooooohhhh
     
  31. TangledThornz

    TangledThornz Gawd

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  32. twonunpackmule

    twonunpackmule [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm a big board gamer. This is def sad news. There's not a lot of money in boardgaming. This is really going to hurt the growth that market was seeing. A shame.
     
  33. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Kind of hard to retaliate in a trade war when you don't really import anything to begin with.
     
  34. Dillirium

    Dillirium Limp Gawd

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    Hard to compete with slave labor.

    Edit:
    Also, I think it's crazy that we all want better quality of life by increasing wages etc... But hell, it's fine if someone over seas sleeps on the ground and makes my Nikes, etc...
     
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  35. Lebowski

    Lebowski 2[H]4U

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    Well they could just make the games here. What’s that, it’s to expensive? Guess what, that mindset is why we are in this situation to begin with. People wanted stuff as cheap as possible and didn’t think about the long term effects and shipping off jobs and manufacturing know how. Had the manufacturing stayed here we would have innovated to reduce costs, but keep Americans working, and not shipping boat loads of our money to a country that hates us.
    The pendulum swings both ways and it’s starting to leave China. Vietnam and India will be the next manufacturing hot spots and prices will stay low because of it.
     
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  36. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    Its not "too expensive" its prohibitively expensive. As in, it is impossible for small companies to make limited run items like that in the US. Also, cut the hogwash about this being the fault of "people wanting stuff as cheap as possible". It was 100% the fault of companies wanting to move to places with less standards and cheaper labor in order to dramatically increase profits. No one was saying "we want to exploit the county that hates us in order to get cheaper prices". If jobs had stayed in the US corporations would have been forced, long ago, to ensure wages kept up with inflation in order to allow people to buy their shit.
     
  37. ChoGGi

    ChoGGi [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well there's goes my weekend

     
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  38. TrailRunner

    TrailRunner Limp Gawd

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    If you’re unfamiliar with Mike Rowe’s adventures in Bobble-head Land, he tried to get US made bobble heads produced to support his jobs skills program. His eventual manufacturing partner laid out the costs and US manufacturing is 10x the cost of Chinese manufacturing. (Presumably Mike’s quality and quantity requirements mirror small-scale game manufacturing.)



    This is the challenge that these guys face. But it’s not so simple to say that ‘If we never outsourced in the first place American manufacturing would be competitive.’ If the outsource option had never existed then yes, smaller scale US manufacturing would be more agile than it is today. However, in that hypothetical scenario you also have to expect that manufacturing wages in the US would be depressed in comparison to where they are today, that prices for products would be higher than they are today, and also that certain manufactured products, such as games, would simply not be economically feasible to produce. Everything has externalities.
     
  39. ND40oz

    ND40oz [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Anytime you turn a manufactured item into a piece of hand panted art, it's not going to work in the US without having to pay the artists for their time. If these games are hand painted, I can see why they're choosing to make them in China.
     
  40. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    damn american artists not willing to be chained to a desk to paint things for pennies on the dollar!
     
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