• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

New study shows that Gen Z is spending way less money on videogames than older gamers

The solution is not to tax the average person but to tax the rich. Trump gave huge tax breaks for the wealthy and the deficit is going to balloon. The solution today is the same solution after the great depression, and that's to tax the rich. No Republican or Democrat wants this because their benefactors are wealthy. Even if you were to somehow pass a law, the wealthy will just lawyer up and do everything they can to delay and try to turn things around, because they are that rich. We have wealthy individuals that have so much money that they can enact their own laws.

It's artificial competition. Investment companies are buying them up and holding onto them. There are nearly 15 million empty homes in USA. Just search on Zillow and you'll find a lot of homes that are empty with no furniture. Quick look on r/zillowgonewild shows this house as been empty for a decade. It's such a big problem that realty are digitally imputing fake furniture. If you know where to look, there's a blind spot in the system. Like this house for $719K, which is a mansion. At some point the housing market will crash.
The top 1 percent of earners pay 40 percent of all income tax collected. The top 5 percent pay 61 percent of all income tax collected. The top 10 percent pay 72 percent of all income taxes. The top 50 percent pay 97 percent. You are in the top 10 percent if you make $178,611. You are in the top 5 if you make $261,591. https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most-income-tax/

What we have here is a spending problem.
 
The top 1 percent of earners pay 40 percent of all income tax collected. The top 5 percent pay 61 percent of all income tax collected. The top 10 percent pay 72 percent of all income taxes. The top 50 percent pay 97 percent. You are in the top 10 percent if you make $178,611. You are in the top 5 if you make $261,591. https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most-income-tax/

What we have here is a spending problem.
Even if you tax the top 1% at 100% you can only run a balanced budget until April. I never want to hear 'tax the rich' again.
 
But back on point - yeah, my kids don't spend a lot. They get a couple games they love.

I believe there are fewer games they love being made.
 
I never want to hear 'tax the rich' again.
tax the rich! Lol...

But yea, backlogs be crazy huge with good free games these days, it's hard to imagine why folks are even paying for stuff especially at full price. I guess there's a thrill to be in on something day one or whatever but just a little patience saves you a ton of money.
 
tax the rich! Lol...

But yea, backlogs be crazy huge with good free games these days, it's hard to imagine why folks are even paying for stuff especially at full price. I guess there's a thrill to be in on something day one or whatever but just a little patience saves you a ton of money.
I try to resist the temptation to buy or play games until well after release but it's not because of the $. It's because they're not finished. Doesn't matter if they're $80 or free. Seems like almost everything ships out incomplete these days, and I don't just mean some DLC is coming later. No, I mean they ship out full of bugs. I like to wait until all the DLC is out, wrapped up in a "complete edition", then buy the full package. Realistically I'm not real likely to replay a game just to go through the DLC. Then there's the most important thing - the bugs. By the time they ship the "complete edition" or whatever they call it with all the DLC they're ever going to make and roll it all up into a package with a bit of a discount usually the game is mostly debugged. Buy at launch and you're running that risk that some bug will glitch out your save halfway through. That's not a huge problem in games that let you save whenever you want since you can just go back to yesterday or whatever, but those games that have checkpoints and save slots? One glitch and it's game over man, game over! Start over from the beginning... or not.
 
The top 1 percent of earners pay 40 percent of all income tax collected. The top 5 percent pay 61 percent of all income tax collected. The top 10 percent pay 72 percent of all income taxes. The top 50 percent pay 97 percent. You are in the top 10 percent if you make $178,611. You are in the top 5 if you make $261,591. https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most-income-tax/
Didn't we have this conversation already, in that income tax isn't the only source of taxation?
What we have here is a spending problem.
Except we decided to take away medicaid and food stamps but increase spending on our military. Also we give Egypt and Israel billions every year. I'm sure that's fine.
But yea, backlogs be crazy huge with good free games these days, it's hard to imagine why folks are even paying for stuff especially at full price. I guess there's a thrill to be in on something day one or whatever but just a little patience saves you a ton of money.
What people here don't understand is that the best games aren't new AAA $70/$80 games. Most of the bad games were released at $70. The good games are a good deal cheaper.

These were the top games of 2024.
  1. Path of Exile 2 = Free
  2. Marvel Rivals = Free
  3. Stalker 2 = $60 but on sale for $40 on Steam
  4. Palworld = $30
  5. HellDivers 2 = $40
  6. Astro Bot = $60
  7. Black Myth Wukong = $60
Our goal is to leave our house to our only child so he never has to buy a home, deal with mega interest rates, and lockout prices like is happening now. We'll see.... thats the goal, reality is a whole other monster.
That's very Greek of you. Most Americans would kick their children out at 18 and tell them to sink or swim.
 
Didn't we have this conversation already, in that income tax isn't the only source of taxation?

Except we decided to take away medicaid and food stamps but increase spending on our military. Also we give Egypt and Israel billions every year. I'm sure that's fine.

What people here don't understand is that the best games aren't new AAA $70/$80 games. Most of the bad games were released at $70. The good games are a good deal cheaper.

These were the top games of 2024.
  1. Path of Exile 2 = Free
  2. Marvel Rivals = Free
  3. Stalker 2 = $60 but on sale for $40 on Steam
  4. Palworld = $30
  5. HellDivers 2 = $40
  6. Astro Bot = $60
  7. Black Myth Wukong = $60

That's very Greek of you. Most Americans would kick their children out at 18 and tell them to sink or swim.
To tie this back on topic, half of our money supply was created in the last 5 years and it wasn't done they way it's supposed to be done; by banks making loans, it was conjured up by the Fed and our monetary policy. It's amazing that inflation is as low as it is. Technically, for every individual, it's orders of magnitude higher than the official numbers we see. Take the same shopping list you had in 2019 and go to the grocery store, you'll double that up today. If the same metrics from the 80s were used to measure inflation, there would be no way to hide it.

So, for companies to keep the same profit margin, prices have to go up. Corporations are only going to eat so much of the costs of inflation before passing it on. I'm not bootlicking the rich corporations, believe me, I'm just trying to point out the facts. The price of a game is what the market will bear, pure and simple. Younger people with less money are getting priced out of the gaming market. This is taking place in all aspects of life. If you try to solve the problem by redistributing wealth with higher taxes, the wealthy corporations will stop playing the game. Less supply will further drive up prices. There is no easy solution to this problem.
 
To tie this back on topic, half of our money supply was created in the last 5 years and it wasn't done they way it's supposed to be done; by banks making loans, it was conjured up by the Fed and our monetary policy. It's amazing that inflation is as low as it is. Technically, for every individual, it's orders of magnitude higher than the official numbers we see. Take the same shopping list you had in 2019 and go to the grocery store, you'll double that up today. If the same metrics from the 80s were used to measure inflation, there would be no way to hide it.

So, for companies to keep the same profit margin, prices have to go up. Corporations are only going to eat so much of the costs of inflation before passing it on. I'm not bootlicking the rich corporations, believe me, I'm just trying to point out the facts. The price of a game is what the market will bear, pure and simple. Younger people with less money are getting priced out of the gaming market. This is taking place in all aspects of life. If you try to solve the problem by redistributing wealth with higher taxes, the wealthy corporations will stop playing the game. Less supply will further drive up prices. There is no easy solution to this problem.
I say smaller dev teams.

Most of the revenue made from trippleA games is microtransactions and subscriptions. Games that rely on those kind of revenue systems are almost always not worth my time. In my experience, I ALWAYS enjoy a game that you buy and you play and that's it.

I other words, most of the money is being spent on making digital casinos and predatory revenue streams, not the good games people actually enjoy, and those are starting to crumble under their own fat. Big, hundred-million-dollar projects are failing more often than succeeding when smaller teams making smaller, more traditional "you buy it and you play it" games are making money. Not billions of dollars, but making money enough to cover development of the game and the next one.
 
So, for companies to keep the same profit margin, prices have to go up. Corporations are only going to eat so much of the costs of inflation before passing it on.
What cost though? It's not like games are built on physical products. Take Tears of the Kingdom for example, which is a game that's recycled Breath of the Wild. There are new assets, but majority of what's done is recycled from Breath of the Wild. Even Elden Ring is using stuff from Demon Souls, which is a game built back in 2009.
The price of a game is what the market will bear, pure and simple.
This is the most correct statement you've made so far. Games are priced purely on what the market is willing to bear, and nothing more. Not because they have to but because shareholders demand it.
If you try to solve the problem by redistributing wealth with higher taxes, the wealthy corporations will stop playing the game.
We can only hope.
Less supply will further drive up prices. There is no easy solution to this problem.
I don't think you're aware of how gaming works. There's no such thing as less supply, but more supply. You have four decades of games that people can go back and play, and 92% of us are playing older games. Companies have been working with FOMO as a way to get people to buy their new games, but considering how many games that flopped last year that costed hundreds of millions of dollars to create, then it maybe time for the industry to get a soft reboot. Gamers don't always depend on companies to make games, but other gamers. Recently it's indie developers who've attracted gamers. Like I said before, Gen Z are into cheap horror games you find on Steam. For example Choo-Choo Charles which is a game made by one man. Five Nights at Freddy's was also a game made by one man, and now it's a franchise that blew up. This sort of thing happened to the gaming industry before where Team Fortress and Counter Strike were free game mods that few people made. The AAA gaming industries compliance was never a factor.


View: https://youtu.be/KDggNqg7Tko?si=yEeBIk58CUWa6miF
 
Even if you tax the top 1% at 100% you can only run a balanced budget until April. I never want to hear 'tax the rich' again.
To tack on...according to the IRS's own data, even if we were to tax the evil 1% at 100% and make them to work for free, it wouldn't close the budget deficit.

Or another one...back in the 1940, the highest tax rate was 91%...yeah, and like one person in the entire country qualified for it; Rockefeller.

Taxing the rich isn't the solution. The most the IRS can extract is like 19% of GDP on a good year. It is the middle class that need to be taxed like is done in the nordic countries. That is where the the large swath of income is that isn't paying their fair share. I'm in that group and I recognize it. Except, it is a huge voting block.
 
Gamers in that age range have always spent less on gaming then more mature gamers. It is not complicated, the younger ones have always had less money to spend and the mature ones have more money to spend and enjoy.
 
it blows my mind how much general media there is out there. One could probably stop in time and still not be able to consume all that was launched in the last 2 years or so.
I would stop at NES and not go past that in age. Atari 2600 games are just crappy arcade games. Most of the NES games are crap, but so are all consoles. If I were to sit down and think hard, I'd say that maybe two dozen games that are a must play on the NES. Probably more on the SNES. Ducktales influenced Shovel Knight. Earthbound influenced Undertale. Silksong is just a modern day metroidvania. Modern first person shooters can trace their heritage back to Half Life, and even further back to Doom. These games do not suck today because they're old. If they influence game creators today, then there's a reason for it. The best thing is that these games will run on a toaster. Some would say a Nintoaster. I'm not saying Gen Z are playing these games, but I'm saying they should if they can't afford $500+ consoles with $80 games. Lets be honest here in that modern day AAA games do suck.
 
Makes sense as

Gaming is no longer cool (not trending on socials)
People spend more time on TikTok, insta and discord
Gen Z is generally poorer (unless they are in tech) and cost of building a PC/console setup is prohibitive
Most are playing with AI recently and learning or spending time with it
Too many F2P games where they spend money on cosmetics vs 70$ video game purchases

Gaming is dying since 1990.
 
Places like Walmart require a goddamn written test and everything for a minimum wage job. Whatever welfare benefits are left in the US, they're slowly being eaten away at, too.
Not really. Walmart's starting pay for hourly employees ranges from $14 to $19 per hour, depending on the store location, with the company maintaining a minimum wage of $14 per hour that varies by region. This starting wage is significantly higher than the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour, and Walmart's rate is also above the minimum wage in most states where it operates.
 
Makes sense as

Gaming is no longer cool (not trending on socials)
People spend more time on TikTok, insta and discord
Gen Z is generally poorer (unless they are in tech) and cost of building a PC/console setup is prohibitive
Most are playing with AI recently and learning or spending time with it
Too many F2P games where they spend money on cosmetics vs 70$ video game purchases

Gaming is dying since 1990.
I wouldn't say gaming is dying but instead the market has shifted. Gen Z play cheap and or free games that focus on social interactions. Roblox is big for them to the point where some of them grew up and are looking to date people who play the game. It's also why Roblox is pedo bait. Another game is Lethal Company that's $10 off Steam and people have funny interactions in that game. Then there was Buckshot Roulette which was popular for a while and is $3 on Steam. Notice anything about these games? They're cheap, they're social, and they're mostly exclusive to PC. How many here have ever heard of these games, besides Roblox because it's making the rounds on mainstream news?

What is dying is AAA gaming because they essentially priced themselves out of a demographic while offering slop. What are the top games so far in 2025? Doom the Dark Ages? Kingdom Come: Deliverance II? Split Fiction is probably the best game a Gen Z could get into because it's a social game that's $50. Meanwhile Avowed is $70 and it's crap. Everyone wants to price their games to $70 and $80 but realistically the games aren't worth half that amount. Market is saturated and no real innovation is being done with them.


View: https://youtu.be/zaWPFbX7Q8A?si=dhY4pJci7_huWHb7
 
Younger people with less money spend less money on their hobby than older people with more disposable income? Never saw that coming. :p
"Disposable Income"

GzWI36TXcAARzGP-1.png
 
Who has time for games when everyone is on their phone texting and on social media? Not me per se.. but that is what seems to occupy later generations more and more these days. Just an observation.
 
I don't think the fate of gaming has much to do with the price of housing. At least not directly. I work with a number of zillenials and I'm raising the first of gen alpha or the last of gen z depending on who you ask about where the divide is. I also have a couple of nieces who are also at the tail end of millenials/start of gen Z depending on who you ask.

IMO the two biggest pressures on game sales amongst gamers are multiplayer and fandom.

The younger the person you are talking about, the more likely that gaming isn't a simple recreational activity as it is a social recreational activity. Between the cheaters, bots, and hyperfocused competitors in competitive games, the pressure is towards games that are co-op and where you can easily just play with your friends and shut the general public out. Because it is a social activity with friends, the global buy in by the friend group matters a LOT. With my kid's friend group, $20 is about the threshold for where the in group who bought in is big enough for the game to have legs and get more uptake. This is where roblox dominates. Zero barrier to entry, runs on a potato, lots of game types. More importantly for the teens, they don't seem to be particularly forming fandom ties to the media. It's much more like going to the movies as teens for gen-X.

Now for the zillenial crowd, they too are big on gaming as entertainment expense. Except that just like every generation before them, as they age they have less constant active engagement with friends. So they are effectively pivoting away from multiplayer first gaming. With that move, microtransactions are getting hit twice because you can't micro transact if you aren't there, but also most of the transactions are to flex on your friends with your cool skin, and there's no point in flexing if there's nobody to flex at for those that remain. But the one thing they did always do more than gen X was parasocial fandom. And they do seem to absolutely get into lore and merch. They'll invent the lore if it isn't there too. But fanfic and fan art and such isn't really a revenue generator. Single player games with a lot of depth or breadth or vibes are getting their dollars. There's a reason baldur's gate and CP2077 absolutely crushed it, and it's because you can bury yourself in that shit. Similarly, factory games rack up the hours played... because you can bury yourself in that shit, just differently. And for none of them do you have to convince your six friends to drop $70 a piece to do it with you.

Also, while I won't say it dominates, I have repeatedly run into this logic amongst genz and zillenials. Paraphrasing it is basically this: I don't watch movies because if they suck I'm out two to three hours of my time. If they are good it is very unlikely I get more than 6 hours of the good stuff. With tv shows I watch the first episode. If it sucks I'm out an hour and if it doesn't odds are I get at least 8 hours of good stuff and possibly hundreds of hours.

People who are stuck living at home with low hope of being able to buy a home of their own will spend cash they are saving for some escapism. But they want to go balls fucking deep on that escapism.

The big bucks in the video game industry are working at a model directly in opposition to that. Effectively trying to reproduce the arcades of yore except that you have to buy the arcade machine, pay for the electricity, pay for the internet, have your data mined, pay $70-100 for the software, and the quarter is now $2.99.
 
It was not an entry level position, nor was the pay low for the position. Has absolutely nothing to do with anything like that.

These postings are unbelievably botted with bullshit resumes and people that think they can somehow cheat their way though if they do get an interview. The amount of garbage that comes in is just staggering.

It's completely non trivial to find the normal people in that pile of shit dumped on your doorstep and is a gigantic time suck. People straight up fake their entire LinkedIn profiles and stuff now. We had one dude who we called out as cheating, and he immediately deleted everything.

These "easy apply" systems are completely ruined at this point, totally insane. And it makes it more obnoxious for everyone else. And now AI agents will be crawling sites and filling out their forms as well - that was enough to avoid the simple bots but that's about to be fucked as well.

I unironically understand why people are trying these AI interviews and filters now. It's bullshit versus bullshit and a nightmare all around. It's a numbers game for both sides in absolutely the worst way.
This has been an issue for as long as I have been a professional. The fancy HR software and people using it won't give a second glance at a resume and cover letter if you didn't gloss it up with impressive sounding words. I never got an interview myself from being honest out of college, it wasn't until I started exaggerating that I started getting interviews and even a response of any kind. I imagine it's even worse today with AI doing the filtering now.
 
Back
Top