New storage server build recommendations

[iroc409]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
ZFS File Server, maybe some network monitoring (if there's enough power--but not a priority). I'd like to build a machine that will last for 5 years, but longer is always a plus.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
As cheap as possible, but getting the job done. Price ranges in sample builds below, but would be happy if it were cheaper.
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

South of Denver, CO area. MicroCenter is probably 30-40 minutes away.
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, RAM, MB, Case, PSU, storage
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Not planing on reusing parts, as current server is all 5+ years old
6) Will you be overclocking?
No
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
N/A
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Within the next few days, but can wait if there's a deal coming
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
ECC RAM, USB 3.0 for external drives, at least 6 SATA, IPMI and dual GigE are nice to have but not mandatory. Main priority is low power consumption and quiet, as this sits in my office and my current stuff is too noisy.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Will be using FreeBSD 10


I am in the process of replacing my file server, and am looking at my options. Planning on a single SSD for boot and 4 drives in raidZ2 for storage, and maybe 1 extra drive for VM storage or network logging--but not a necessity. I like the idea of the T20, and I've heard good things about them, but am not super excited about the add-on SATA card. I really like the looks of the Norco mini-ITX, and the i3-T CPU with super low power and AES. I'm concerned that the Norco with the small PSU and 80mm fan might be noisy.

It looks like I can get WD Red 3TB drives today for $120/ea, so planning to buy 4 of them.

I know they have had some pretty smokin' deals on the T20 in the past, so that might be a consideration as well.

I did some basic specs, here are some build examples I made. They are all pretty close, and I could probably do some things here and there to save costs (8GB RAM, Pentium/Celeron, etc):

 

[Dangman]

First and foremost: I don't recommend that Intel Core i3 4130T. It honestly won't save you money in the long-run since it has the same idle power as any other Core i3 CPU like the Core i3 4130. It's only "low power" in the sense that it's heavily downclocked. As such, it's going to take longer to do certain tasks which means that it may end up using more power than a higher-clocked Core i3. That higher-clocked Core i3 4130T can do that task faster and therefore drop back down to the idle state faster.

Which Crucial RAM is that? In any case, do note that the MBD-A1SAi only takes SO-DIMMs, not regular RAM.

As for your noise concerns, they are quite legitimate. In the past, FlexATX PSUs and cases with 80mm fans haven't exactly been "quiet". Considering that the Norco is a relatively new case, I would wait longer for more reviews to come out if you really want to go that option.

With that said, out of the five options you listed, I like the 3rd/middle option the most. That Supermicro motherboard is a pretty awesome deal considering that the integrated LSI controller can cost $100 by itself and would require another $30 to $40 for SAS to SATA adapters. So for $250, you're getting a total of 14 SATA ports right off the bat. That makes it one of the best bang for the options out there.

With that said, there are some changes that I would recommend for that 3rd/middle option. Besides the CPU, as mentioned earlier, I would also recommend getting a better quality PSU. That case can hold up to 12 to 13 hard drives + a SSD where ever you want. That's quite a bit of power at load/startup. Also, since this will be more than likely running 24/7, it wouldn't hurt too much to get a more efficient PSU. So I would recommend this beefier PSU:
$80 - Seasonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W Modular PSU

 

[iroc409]

Thanks for the reply, Dangman. You bring up some very good points.

First and foremost: I don't recommend that Intel Core i3 4130T. It honestly won't save you money in the long-run since it has the same idle power as any other Core i3 CPU like the Core i3 4130. It's only "low power" in the sense that it's heavily downclocked. As such, it's going to take longer to do certain tasks which means that it may end up using more power than a higher-clocked Core i3. That higher-clocked Core i3 4130T can do that task faster and therefore drop back down to the idle state faster.

I was thinking that because its first role is file server, and if that's all it did, it wouldn't need much and the T CPU would be a lower-heat option--but I think you're right. I've read older tests with Atoms and i3's that came to the same conclusion, so it makes sense. The i3-4130T is something like 80% faster than my current CPU, but it does take a long time to chew through a full checksum rsync, so having the extra power would probably come in handy.

Which Crucial RAM is that? In any case, do note that the MBD-A1SAi only takes SO-DIMMs, not regular RAM.

Good catch, didn't think of that making the list. It won't work with the C2750.

As for your noise concerns, they are quite legitimate. In the past, FlexATX PSUs and cases with 80mm fans haven't exactly been "quiet". Considering that the Norco is a relatively new case, I would wait longer for more reviews to come out if you really want to go that option.

The Norco comes without power supply and the 80MM fan is a server fan, so it would definitely need to be replaced. The reviews I read on the Flex ATX power supply indicate it is quiet if not heavily loaded, but I'm dubious. Every tiny fan I've had always makes noise. I had an old Shuttle that could be awful. I just really like the form factor. The only thing I've seen so far I think are the Newegg reviews.

With that said, out of the five options you listed, I like the 3rd/middle option the most. That Supermicro motherboard is a pretty awesome deal considering that the integrated LSI controller can cost $100 by itself and would require another $30 to $40 for SAS to SATA adapters. So for $250, you're getting a total of 14 SATA ports right off the bat. That makes it one of the best bang for the options out there.

With that said, there are some changes that I would recommend for that 3rd/middle option. Besides the CPU, as mentioned earlier, I would also recommend getting a better quality PSU. That case can hold up to 12 to 13 hard drives + a SSD where ever you want. That's quite a bit of power at load/startup. Also, since this will be more than likely running 24/7, it wouldn't hurt too much to get a more efficient PSU. So I would recommend this beefier PSU:
$80 - Seasonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W Modular PSU

The Supermicro with LSI controller is by far the most versatile route. I didn't really expect to need the extra SATA ports, but I could pretty much do whatever with it. I could always add a second raidz2 down the road for storage, or a mirror for VM storage, etc. It's probably the better route, I just wanted something smaller. It also is pretty much guaranteed to be more quiet with the right fans. My ATX desktop sits under my desk, with an AMD 7850 (I think) it's barely audible if it is the only thing running--and that's with the cover off.

Other than the fact that something in my current server is making dying sounds, the heat & noise aspects are my biggest priorities in upgrading--which is probably a good reason to go with a bigger case. Mini-ITX is just so... groovy.

 

[Dangman]

Good catch, didn't think of that making the list. It won't work with the C2750.

You didn't answer my question about the RAM BTW. In any case, for Supermicro mobos, you really want to stick with Kingston RAM as they tend to have better compatibility with SM mobos.

The Supermicro with LSI controller is by far the most versatile route. I didn't really expect to need the extra SATA ports, but I could pretty much do whatever with it. I could always add a second raidz2 down the road for storage, or a mirror for VM storage, etc. It's probably the better route, I just wanted something smaller. It also is pretty much guaranteed to be more quiet with the right fans. My ATX desktop sits under my desk, with an AMD 7850 (I think) it's barely audible if it is the only thing running--and that's with the cover off.

Not quite there: You still have worry about the stock HSF. It can be quiet to some but really loud to others. If you have more than 4 spare Enlobal fans, then I would recommend spending the extra $33 for the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo:
$32 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo HSF

Replace the stock fan with one of those Enlobals and you should be good to go cooling and noise wise. As a bit of anecdotal evidence, I use the Hyper 212+ (less advanced version of the Evo) paired with my Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E 120mm fan. It is damn near silent even with my NZXT Phantom case. So it should be pretty silent in the low-noise oriented Fractal Design R4.

Other than the fact that something in my current server is making dying sounds, the heat & noise aspects are my biggest priorities in upgrading--which is probably a good reason to go with a bigger case. Mini-ITX is just so... groovy.

You could go with the Fractal Design Node 304. It was rated as a quiet case by the guys over SilentPCReview.com:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Fractal_Design_Node_304

With that said, going that route wouldn't be anywhere near as cost-effective as the 3rd option. Not to mention the more limited choices in motherboards, possibility of having to ditch ECC RAM altogether, extremely limited expansion, etc.

 

[iroc409]

You didn't answer my question about the RAM BTW. In any case, for Supermicro mobos, you really want to stick with Kingston RAM as they tend to have better compatibility with SM mobos.

Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1600 CT2KIT102472BD160B

In the past I've always had good luck with Crucial & G Skill, so that's usually what I seek out (G Skill for gaming rig, Crucial for about everything else). If Kingston is recommended, I'll go that route.

Not quite there: You still have worry about the stock HSF. It can be quiet to some but really loud to others. If you have more than 4 spare Enlobal fans, then I would recommend spending the extra $33 for the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo:
$32 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo HSF

Replace the stock fan with one of those Enlobals and you should be good to go cooling and noise wise. As a bit of anecdotal evidence, I use the Hyper 212+ (less advanced version of the Evo) paired with my Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E 120mm fan. It is damn near silent even with my NZXT Phantom case. So it should be pretty silent in the low-noise oriented Fractal Design R4.

Yeah, I did not mention that, but plan to replace the stock fan. I've seen the 212, it looks good so I will add it to the list. It might even be what is in my desktop, but I think that's a Xigmatek. I'll have to take stock on the Enlobal fans, but I can pull them out of the existing firewall & server box I am replacing.

You could go with the Fractal Design Node 304. It was rated as a quiet case by the guys over SilentPCReview.com:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Fractal_Design_Node_304

With that said, going that route wouldn't be anywhere near as cost-effective as the 3rd option. Not to mention the more limited choices in motherboards, possibility of having to ditch ECC RAM altogether, extremely limited expansion, etc.

The Node 304 is one that I was reviewing. I like that case as well. The mini-ITX form factor does provide a lot of limitations, however.

What's the best bang for the buck CPU? The i3-4130 (non-T) is obvious, but are there better ones to look at? I've heard some of the G-series Pentiums are pretty good too, but was mostly looking at the i3 for AES. I'd like to implement encryption at least on my backup drives eventually, but I haven't done it so far.

 

[Dangman]

What's the best bang for the buck CPU? The i3-4130 (non-T) is obvious, but are there better ones to look at? I've heard some of the G-series Pentiums are pretty good too, but was mostly looking at the i3 for AES. I'd like to implement encryption at least on my backup drives eventually, but I haven't done it so far.

The Core i3 4130 is probably the most reasonable choice available to you. While the Pentium G3220 is an excellent CPU, it lacks the AES feature you wanted. In addition, the Core i3's HT might help out in the future if you decide to do more with the server or ZFS becomes really multi-threaded.

With that said, if this was also going to be a virtualization server, I'd recommend the Intel Xeon E1230V3 hands down:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116906

4 Cores + 4 Threads for $60 less than its Core i7 counterparts. But fairly sure it's overkill for a file server.

 

[iroc409]

The Xeon is very tempting, especially with this board. I'm used to having a UTM on my home network, and I could do that with 1 machine and a Xeon. I don't know that I really need it for home, though, I'm just "used to it" since I've had them for years.

I'll probably stick with the i3-4130.

 

[Cottonwood00]

Hey man I figured i'd drop my two cents, since recently was in the same boat. Anyways I picked up a Lenovo TS140 slapped a Samsung Evo in it because it was a cheapiest option(didnt buy HDD's Yet still tinkering). But i figure i'd throw out some pros/cons so you can make and educated guess.

Pros:
* Cheapest Option
* Really really quite
* Low power consumption

Cons:
* Limited 3.5 and no dedicated 2.5
* only 5 Sata ( One is already taken up by the DVD Drive)

Software:
* freeBSD 10
* Plex Server
* File Server (Raidz). Planned 3x3tb
* Transmission
* VM Host (Virtual Box/phpVirtualbox)

If you go this route you're going to have to rip the guts out and get a new case or find some way to mount more drives cause you're already taking (4x3.5 HDD and 1x2.5 SSD).
And you wont have a DVD drive unless you get another Sata Card.

Dont get me wrong I love what i got but for you I would rule this one out just cause your cost difference will be eat'n up for a case/sata card and all that jazz. Unless you have spares.

 

[iroc409]

I appreciate the input, Cottonwood. The prices on these things fluctuate so much--now you can get the Xeon version shipped for less than $400 on the TS140. It's almost tempting to just make it work.

 

[Cottonwood00]

I have the i3-4130 and its great for my usage, also i picked mine up for $270 but i've seen them go as low as $230 with some deal hunting. Only reason I would go with the Xeon is if you're streaming like 4-6 Videos Transcoding or something or trying to do hardware passthru on a baremetal hypervisor. Otherwise for a file server the i3-4130 is perfect but ill check back to see where you went with it. Good Luck

Are you trying to run VM's on the machine or just store VM images?

 

[iroc409]

I have the i3-4130 and its great for my usage, also i picked mine up for $270 but i've seen them go as low as $230 with some deal hunting. Only reason I would go with the Xeon is if you're streaming like 4-6 Videos Transcoding or something or trying to do hardware passthru on a baremetal hypervisor. Otherwise for a file server the i3-4130 is perfect but ill check back to see where you went with it. Good Luck

Are you trying to run VM's on the machine or just store VM images?

I really wasn't planning on doing an all-in-one, and using this mostly for file serving. However, it might make more sense as a home user to build an all-in-one, especially considering I can use a lot of pre-built stuff for any other applications instead of building my own.

The recommended Supermicro board above would be perfect for the all-in-one with the integrated LSI controller, but the price is up there once you add in a Xeon and enough RAM.

 

[Cottonwood00]

If you want just a file server then you dont even need an i3. You can run a plain file server with little ARM proc like some NAS's do and you'll get alot more features. Only reason I got the i3 was to handle transcoding on the fly. Xeon would just be throwing money away.... and if you really need to, later you can upgrade the CPU to any haswell chip you want but agian, its a file server you dont need much.

Also you can just do raidz to save money instead of raidz2...... better to have backup then to have double redundancy unless you're mission critical.IMO

 

[iroc409]

So, I guess to give an update on the thread. Things have gone a little sideways for me, but I have a solution.

I picked up two 4TB Red drives on a Newegg sale, with the intent of picking up two more Reds or Hitachi NAs drives. Then... they announced the sale of the facility I work at. Bah!

I ended up picking up a Dell T110ii during a sale. It only has a G1620 in it, but I upgraded it to 1x8GB RAM and a 1TB hard drive (didn't need the drive, but it had to have one). It was $100 cheaper than what I could build on Newegg with a Supermicro board (without LSI controller) and G3220. There was an option to upgrade the T110 to a Core i3, but it did not have AES-Ni, so I decided the cost wasn't worth the upgrade. I would like to put a second stick of RAM in it.

I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, but a friend bought one as well and it pretty much will serve the purpose. I really wanted to buy the extra two storage drives, but I don't think I can justify the cost until I get to fill the first ones--which may be soon depending on how my digital archiving goes.

I'm either going to install FreeBSD on the 1TB drive and maybe use the rest of it for image backup storage, or use the internal USB connectors on the server and install FreeBSD to that (like FreeNAS).

The server pretty much meets my basic requirements for a storage server except USB 3.0. I have a StarTech controller in my current server I may move over. I've had some issues with the externals though (acting funny, no data loss--except one that may be dead). I don't really want to move it over, but using USB 2.0 drives for backups will probably be painful. The server does have an eSATA port, but I'd have to do something with the externals as they are factory external drives. I've decided that I will keep storage and network services separate, so I won't be building an AIO--though this server could be updgraded to make a very nice one. I think I am going to wait for a deal on a T20 or TS140 to replace my firewall box (which isn't currently firewalling) once I get an idea of what I need for resourcing and get work straightened out.

It's not quite what I wanted to do, and I feel a little ridiculous straying completely from the recommendations--but at this point I needed to replace my existing box as it's starting to have issues and I need to be cheap due to the job situation. I really wanted the extra storage drives, but I guess I'll stick to mirrors and add more later. I'd probably be better off replacing the other machine than more drives at this point.

 

[Dangman]

Good luck with both the work situation and the server!

You could do a whole lot worse than a Dell server. Not quite a bad option,

 

[iroc409]

Thanks Dangman, on both accounts. The T110 seems to be well-regarded. I can't wait to get it set up!

The worst part about the job is that I think I was *really close* to a major step up in the career, which the sale obliterated. However, if things go perfectly I'll end up better off career-wise than before (though not necessarily better monetarily in the short term).

It's a kind of a big game of chicken and wait-and-see combined.