New Logo for horde central not [H]ard|Folding

[King_N]

Since moose decided to delete any mention of this in the other thread and there still seems to be confusion surrounding it, I've decided to post this outside of the voting thread so it won't break their little disclaimer.

The new logo that is being voted on is going to be used here, it is *not* going to be used on [H]ard|Folding.com

The team was founded using the logo on [H]ard|Folding, that logo will never change, that logo is to this team what the United States flag is to Americans.

1 [H]ard Team, 2 Great Projects, 1 Common Goal..... The Cure



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[KodiakStar]

For being the team captain (as you have said before)... Why don't you try working WITH the team, rather than pulling this "us vs them" deal?

 

[Duster]

maybe they should have talked about the logo with the HF council and what not before doing this. It is a team and it seems some people are starting to step on toes

 

[KodiakStar]

As far as i know, there is no more HF council..

Besides, since when is the team "ruled" by anyone?

Its a large group of people dedicated to finding the cure, and working together...

 

[KodiakStar]

Since you brought it up.

Let's go down this road.

When has the council last met?
Why hasn't the forum heard about council meetings?
Why are half the councils members no longer active around here, and why haven't we found new people to replace them?
If this is such a big deal that the council should be involved, why didn't anyone speak up sooner?

 

[Kvothe]

The fact is that this a forum based activity. This was a logo for the forum goers, by the forum goers. What is put on hf.com is outside of our purview and we're not going to make an effort to change that. The [H]orde|Central thread was my idea, and Rich refined it, we thought a new logo to go with the new thread was a good idea and a fun activity.

As not to cause anymore confusion, all members of the team that contribute to the forums were allowed and even those that don't were invited to make their feelings known in the initial logo thread. They had choosen not to, and now we are at this juncture. The opportunity to provide input was alotted and was ignored. We welcomed the input of all comers so mentioning that this should have been done differently is not a viable statement.

The opportunity for that has passed.

 

[King_N]

The council is alive and well, we're just quiet for the most part due to the fact that we got tired of the constant fighting, we've been through 3 wars so far, we've been trying to avoid another.

This thread was started simply to let everyone know that the new logo was specifically for the horde central area of the forums only, it was created because some people thought it was going to affect everything, which is not the case.

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[AtomicMoose]

King,

The question was answered in p[H]ant0m's edit of Killer's post in the voting thread. Pretty clear if you ask me. No need to rehash this so you can rally your troops.

We know it isn't going to change on your site. We purposefully didn't ask as we knew what the answer would be...."no", Just like the answer from you always is.

Rich, p[H] and myself intended for this to be a fun activity that all could share in. As per the usual, the "old guard" has fucked it up. I know that this is a bit brash, but it is the truth and I cannot keep pretending that everything is peachy any longer. This is the reason for lack of complete team unity. The sooner that you guys realize this, the better off we will all be.

The submission thread has been alive for almost a month. I believe this was clarified in there as well. That was the time for this discussion about the logo....not now.

 

[KodiakStar]

The council is alive and well, we're just quiet for the most part due to the fact that we got tired of the constant fighting, we've been through 3 wars so far, we've been trying to avoid another.

Maybe if the high and mighty council took the time to be a PART of the team, rather than staying quiet and in the background... there wouldn't be a need to "fight" or have "Wars" rather we could work together and make this a great team.

Or is that too much to ask for? There is no black and white in teamwork, there is only grey. There is always room to compromise.

 

[AtomicMoose]

The council is alive and well, we're just quiet for the most part due to the fact that we got tired of the constant fighting, we've been through 3 wars so far, we've been trying to avoid another.

And what exactly is the function of the "council", in your opinion?

 

[KodiakStar]

Maybe if King can't answer these questions, someone else can step up and fill us in...

 

[[Spectre]]

Iceberg ahead captain.......

 

[King_N]

You'll notice not once have we decided let's add something to the team that only the old-guard will like, yet how many times has the team changed over this last year to basically kick the old-guard?

Point of fact for years we made fun of OCAU because they had to *bribe* members into working for them to even catch us or pass us, then come along a few new members and decide that this is the thing to do, basically making it so that us old-guard members get called hypocrites, because now we do the same thing.

Did we want to do this? no.
Did we get asked "should we do this?" no.

Yet you'll notice that we're the ones getting bashed and taking the heat, not the new members.

Now another point to be made relic, started the sticky threads only as a storage space for the guides *unitl* they were placed on [H]ard|Folding, that was the whole point, it was a new mod and member that came along and decided to change that, once again did those of us being kicked around and hurt by these changes get asked, nope...

Also as per the forum rules (BAD FORM) any thread promoting another team in any way, shape or form was deleted on the spot, any thread that promoted another project was deleted, now all of a sudden the new mods decide it's ok who cares that once again it hurts those of us that have been here since the beginning.

Basically what it has come down to is a new member demands something you make sure they get what they ask, an old-guard member says something and it's us that are starting problems because we don't agree with you.

In fact our messages get deleted for dis-agreeing with you, not to mention the number of us old-guard that have been told to "Keep our mouth shut" whenever we dis-agree.

As far as rallying the troops, trust me on this I don't have to rally anyone, the old-guard are already up in arms over the changes and how we get treated by people that haven't been around even a 1/4 of the time we have.

And as far as my answer always being no...

Let's see people said they wanted stats to cover more then just [H], hmm seems that those stats exist.

Let's see, people said they wanted a Trade Database, hmm that exists also.

Let's see people asked for automatic gauntlet tracking, hmm that seems to exist also.

Let's see people asked for the guides to be updated, they sent in the guides and those exist also.

People asked for the red and black colors to be changed, that won't happen as that is the team colors.

So don't even try to say I say no to everything.

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[KodiakStar]

You'll notice not once have we decided let's add something to the team that only the old-guard will like, yet how many times has the team changed over this last year to basically kick the old-guard?

The only things that seem to constantly be asked for, added, mentioned, etc, are things that people think would be better for the "TEAM"

not just one portion of the team..

Would you please stop the us vs them.

You are part of the team.

As far as rallying the troops, trust me on this I don't have to rally anyone, the old-guard are already up in arms over the changes and how we get treated by people that haven't been around even a 1/4 of the time we have.

If they have submitted a WU only one... I consider them a teammate. Time on the teams, while showing your dedication to the cause, does not make you better than someone else.

 

[AtomicMoose]

You'll notice not once have we decided let's add something to the team that only the old-guard will like, yet how many times has the team changed over this last year to basically kick the old-guard?

Change is inevitable. Everything in life changes. Lack of change gets thing stale. Hell, Kyle just changed the front page. Change is for the better. Get used to it.

If you take this as a personal affront....sorry, but don't flatter yourself.

Point of fact for years we made fun of OCAU because they had to *bribe* members into working for them to even catch us or pass us, then come along a few new members and decide that this is the thing to do, basically making it so that us old-guard members get called hypocrites, because now we do the same thing.

Did we want to do this? no.
Did we get asked "should we do this?" no.

Yet you'll notice that we're the ones getting bashed and taking the heat, not the new members.

I take extreme issue with many parts of this....

We are not "bribing" anyone to fold. We hold contests, raffles, gauntlets to stir interest. Some fold for stats, some the cure, some both. There is no shame in attracting members with any of these means.

Secondly, Since when do we have to ask you about anything? Who are you?! This is a team. Any one single person on this team can run a contest or sponsor a giveaway. That is what a team is. If you were so concerned about what was going on here, you'd be more involved, but you're not. So get over it.

Now another point to be made relic, started the sticky threads only as a storage space for the guides *unitl* they were placed on [H]ard|Folding, that was the whole point, it was a new mod and member that came along and decided to change that, once again did those of us being kicked around and hurt by these changes get asked, nope...

Call me by name, King. You're not as clever as you think.

Again, make your concerns known at the time. If any member has concerns about what goes on here, it will be taken into account. How is anyone supposed to know that such unhappiness abounded if no one says anything?

And let me say this. I am sorry Steve checked out, I really am...but it was HIS choice, not mine. If/When he decides to have a presence on this forum, he will be welcomed back. Personally, I don't think it's gonna happen but I have been wrong before.

Basically what it has come down to is a new member demands something you make sure they get what they ask, an old-guard member says something and it's us that are starting problems because we don't agree with you.

Members don't demand anything. Questions are asked and suggestions are made.

It is not the fact that there is disagreement, King, it is the manner in which it is done. Social skills have never been a strong point for you.

In fact our messages get deleted for dis-agreeing with you, not to mention the number of us old-guard that have been told to "Keep our mouth shut" whenever we dis-agree.

You are quite the martyr, but this is simply not the case. I have fought the battles for you for some time now...even when people are coming to me saying, "Why do you bother?" It was the right thing to do at the time. I gave you the respect I thought you deserved. That time has passed.

As far as rallying the troops, trust me on this I don't have to rally anyone, the old-guard are already up in arms over the changes and how we get treated by people that haven't been around even a 1/4 of the time we have.

The fact that there is even an "old gaurd" is absurd in itself. Why do you refuse to progress? This is the freaking internet for god's sake!! Just go with the flow. Again, changes happen. Less stress to just roll with the punches.

And as far as my answer always being no...

Let's see people said they wanted stats to cover more then just [H], hmm seems that those stats exist.

Let's see, people said they wanted a Trade Database, hmm that exists also.

Let's see people asked for automatic gauntlet tracking, hmm that sweems to exist also.

Let's see people asked for the guides to be updated, they sent in the guides and those exist also.

People asked for the red and black colors to be changed, that won't happen as that is the team colors.

So don't even try to say I say no to everything.

Most of these things you took upon yourself to do. Bravo, King.

I have always been one to say that you do put a lot of time into this team. No one can ever take that from you. Unfortunately for you, your piss poor attitude negates most of your efforts in the minds of the members of this team.

 

[Kvothe]

Well I echo Moose's thoughts to a T. Not just a troop falling in line, but these are gripes that I've had as well and that I know I've discussed privately in that one place.

We are a TEAM, we pull our stregth from our multitude of members, not any single one. Yes we have huge producers, but one thing that I constantly see mentioned is how much better off we are for having a bunch of people with 2, 3, or 4 boxen.

Then we have this arguement... yes we have a bunch of new members, these are the growing pains, but with every new person comes another mindset, another idea. One thing that I decided to bring to the table last summer was something fun, a contest. Call it a bribe if you will, but I call it fun. We had 56 pages of smacktalk, statistics and a good time. So what, we gave out some prizes, we pushed it to bring in new people. We pride ourselves on being number 1, and the only way you do that is by bringing in the masses.

Obviously the team makeup has changed quite a bit in the last few years. I wasn't around then, I came in with the new school, contests, activities and fun. Just like anything else in this world its cyclical, I have no doubt, that someday many of us will be gone for one reason or another. Someone else will step up with a good idea. I won't stand in the way of their changes or ideas.

I respect the ideals the team was built on, I also respect the history. I don't respect the resistance to change. You have to keep it interesting, or it gets stagnant. I don't want that, I want our occasional OT fest, contests and runoffs. These are serious things we're working toward, but there's nothing that says it can't be fun too.

TEAM, one word, many ideals, lots of opinions. TEAM, finding a common ground to stand on, give a little, get a little, and maybe listen to opinions about something you may find dear.

 

[AtomicMoose]

Also as per the forum rules (BAD FORM) any thread promoting another team in any way, shape or form was deleted on the spot, any thread that promoted another project was deleted, now all of a sudden the new mods decide it's ok who cares that once again it hurts those of us that have been here since the beginning.

I see you edited your post. Care to explain this?

And let me remind you of one thing. I turned in my first F@H work unit in September of 2001. I am not exactly new here.

 

[Rich Tate]

I really feel the need to chime in on this one.

I joined the team personally before I was in any position to make any public help to the team because I thought it was a great cause and because it was easy.

I got my machines up and running and participated in the subforum because I liked the people and I really felt this was an exceptional group of people.

I really feel I got lucky and got invited to join the [H] team and saw that as a chance to really help the teams in terms of pimpage, so I went after it. Because of this newfound ability of mine I often talked with p[H] and Moose to see how I could help, what contests we had coming up etc so I could further each individual effort.

I will fully admit that in this time the three of us have become pretty tight, and I consider them good friends. Because of that, and I really believe in what we do here I have made every effort I can to assist them in making fun activities and try to generally better things around here to make it appealing to perspective folders/UDers to better the team.

Everytime a new idea comes up for something fun, it's shit on by a certain group of people. You want to refer to it as the old guard ok.

This logo thing is a prime example. I basically volunteered to help p[H] and Moose with the guide here because it needed done so Steve and I could easily pimp UD ( you know, the other project ) because in my interpretation that was what a part of the team. So I spent quite a few hours of my own time reworking it so it looked better, more polished and it was easy to link both projects. I get it all done and say Hey, a logo would be nice huh? Moose and p[H] agree. So we thought, hey great idea, another fun little contest to get everyone involved.

And what happens? Some people rear their heads and start bitching to high heaven that we have committed some travesty of man. I don't understand it? I thought anything to better the team was the point here?

I for one look for no thanks for doing anything around here, and you can read my posts to prove that. But I'm really sick of people shitting on every effort that is made because we have this new versus old mentality. Its really fucking nauseating. Stop sitting around and bitching and whining and do something to help the team instead of shitting on efforts to try and make it better.

Thats my take on it. MY PERSONAL VIEWS on it. I would really love for all of us to come together and work this out somehow instead of constantly fighting over it.

 

[King_N]

Change is inevitable. Everything in life changes. Lack of change gets thing stale. Hell, Kyle just changed the front page. Change is for the better. Get used to it.

Some changes are good, others are seriously bad, not that any of our opinions count...

If you take this as a personal affront....sorry, but don't flatter yourself.I take extreme issue with many parts of this....

I'm not trying to flatter myself, nor will I get sucked into your little bashing game.

We are not "bribing" anyone to fold. We hold contests, raffles, gauntlets to stir interest. Some fold for stats, some the cure, some both. There is no shame in attracting members with any of these means.

Gauntlets have always existed and have always been pushed, bribing is new.

Call it what you want but poodoo is poodoo by any other name and it stinks no matter what name you give it..

If you were so concerned about what was going on here, you'd be more involved, but you're not. So get over it.Call me by name, King. You're not as clever as you think.

Many of us have tried and each time we're told to "keep our mouth shut" or the thread/message gets deleted. Kind of hard to get involved and speak our concerns under those conditions.

Again, make your concerns known at the time. If any member has concerns about what goes on here, it will be taken into account. How is anyone supposed to know that such unhappiness abounded if no one says anything?

See above...

And let me say this. I am sorry Steve checked out, I really am...but it was HIS choice, not mine. If/When he decides to have a presence on this forum, he will be welcomed back. Personally, I don't think it's gonna happen but I have been wrong before. Members don't demand anything. Questions are asked and suggestions are made.

And let me ask you this, do you really think he left because he was busy? I'll tell you this much he was starting to get fed up himself before he stepped out as you call it, relic used to make time no matter how swamped he was.

He is a good man not a single person can ever say anything bad about him.

It is not the fact that there is disagreement, King, it is the manner in which it is done. Social skills have never been a strong point for you.You are quite the martyr, but this is simply not the case. I have fought the battles for you for some time now...even when people are coming to me saying, "Why do you bother?" It was the right thing to do at the time. I gave you the respect I thought you deserved. That time has passed.The fact that there is even an "old gaurd" is absurd in itself. Why do you refuse to progress? This is the freaking internet for god's sake!! Just go with the flow. Again, changes happen. Less stress to just roll with the punches.Most of these things you took upon yourself to do. Bravo, King.

Sorry but I didn't go to the Moose diplomacy school, I speak what is on my mind flat out, some people might not understand what I mean all the time, some people might take offense some of the time, but the fact remains the same..

The best way to explain how I communicate is simply explain that I tend to handle things the way Kyle does, it may seem gruff but it's what I know, again sorry but that's how I talk..

For that matter who are you to judge me?

I have always been one to say that you do put a lot of time into this team. No one can ever take that from you. Unfortunately for you, your piss poor attitude negates most of your efforts in the minds of the members of this team.

And just what do you think caused that attitude, did I always have this attitude???

Something you'll never know because even though you may have started in 2001, you weren't around to see what caused the majority of the issues the older members have with the way things are going.

I see you edited your post. Care to explain this?

And let me remind you of one thing. I turned in my first F@H work unit in September of 2001. I am not exactly new here.

As for explaining what I mean about bad form, up until the time the new mods came in to play all links to other projects and other teams were deleted on the spot(cited as BAD FORM) by Kyle, CIWS, and relic.

You're pushing members away from this team to another team, or another project.

The only exception to this ever made was the UD project and that was due to the fact that a lot of us had already started working on the project.

I'm sure you don't believe that, so how about taking a little trip over and talk to DragonGoddess(now aligned with ARS) the poor mis-treated grandmother that was banned from these forums for posting about seti and linking to ARS's forums/team sites, she'll love the fact that you're an [H] forum mod..

Also let me take the time to state that when I say the newer members I don't mean *ALL*, most of them don't try to destroy what we know.

Another matter that must be brought to light, I posted this thread because there was confusion about where the new logo was going to be used since you deleted the other messages that explained it.

Now who started the thread downward this time (since I get blamed for all the other downward threads)?

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[Rich Tate]

Someone give me one good reason why we couldn't just sit down and talk this out and make it work as a team? Thats all I want to know.

 

[Hito Bahadur]

Can someone answer this?

I know I'm a n00b, but who are the council (names)? What sort of authority do they have (I'm assuming little as there is very little to actually control)? And what is the definition of the "old guard?"

All these arguements seem pretty silly in my mind but I'd love to be educated.

 

[Duster]

Someone give me one good reason why we couldn't just sit down and talk this out and make it work as a team? Thats all I want to know.

we can... i think we need somethign to the affect of team bi laws on how things should be handled and what not

 

[Duster]

Can someone answer this?

I know I'm a n00b, but who are the council (names)? What sort of authority do they have (I'm assuming little as there is very little to actually control)? And what is the definition of the "old guard?"

All these arguements seem pretty silly in my mind but I'd love to be educated.

check mages thread

 

[Kvothe]

The listing of the council can be found on hf.com under [H]ardfolding Contributors. Only about half of the members listed there seems to be active, and outside of that, I only see 2 on the forums with any regularity.

The mentality of old vs new seems to exist as a difference in mentality. Many of the newer members, such as myself, believe that contests and fun are the way to bring people in, and that stirring up interest is the way to get people involved.

Others seem to believe that any change to how it was isn't necessarily bad, but just shouldn't be considered. That's how its been, thats how it should be. It's merely a difference in mindset.

 

[King_N]

Someone give me one good reason why we couldn't just sit down and talk this out and make it work as a team? Thats all I want to know.

Can't explain it myself, except to say it's the [H] way, the only way things seem to get done around here is to argue, we've been there 3 times already and it seems that this is going to be the fourth.

As I stated above this thread was supposed to be an explaination about the new logo and why the old logo was going to be used everywhere else, I posted it because the other messages explaining it got deleted from the thread, but it seems that they couldn't just leave it at that.

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[Rich Tate]

This quote caught my eye:

maybe it is time to talk to the council and get them to induct some new members to part of the council and move the ones that are gone to Hall of fame status. Lets face it I only know of 50% of the people on the council maybe it is time for them to let some new blood in and get active. Make something of the council make them more part of this team then just a name.

Tell me why not?

 

[Duster]

maybe it is time for the old and new to get together and figure this stuff out it seems that it has been a problem in the past and will be until things are figured out

maybe get together on irc on the weekend and figure out the role of the council and maybe the council should look at inducting some new fresh blood

these kind of threads look bad on us (team) and this kind of stuff is not fun

 

[KodiakStar]

We don't have to argue. I think I posted some important questions earlier, and they are just ignored. People seem to think its easier to complain about things, and continue attacks, rather then face the problems directly and find ways to fix them.

I think abolishing the council itself would be the best bet. Since they havent had time to be a part of the team and speak out for how they feel about things, then is there a point in having one?

I think we are doing ok as a team without them.

 

[AtomicMoose]

Some changes are good, others are seriously bad...

And who gets to be the judge of that? You? Laughable.

I'm not trying to flatter myself, nor will I get sucked into your little bashing game.

There is no game here.

Gauntlets have always existed and have always been pushed, bribing is new.

Call it what you want but poodoo is poodoo by any other name and it stinks no matter what name you give it..

Your opinion on this means squat to me at this point. I am not sure why you think holding a contest is bribing. Does this mean that you condemn Kyle for the contests he runs?

Many of us have tried and each time we're told to "keep our mouth shut" or the thread/message gets deleted. Kind of hard to get involved and speak our concerns under those conditions.

Many = you? The only person I have ever asked to keep quite was you. The manner in which you speak to others is deplorable. I asked you to stop. If you can raise objections and questions like an adult, this wouldn't be necessary.

And let me ask you this, do you really think he left because he was busy? I'll tell you this much he was starting to get fed up himself before he stepped out as you call it, relic used to make time no matter how swamped he was.

He is a good man not a single person can ever say anything bad about him.

The reasons that Steve left are none of my concern. They are and will continue to be his own.

And if he was getting fed up, who was it with? You? The old gaurd BS?

Sorry but I didn't go to the Moose diplomacy school, I speak what is on my mind flat out, some people might not understand what I mean all the time, some people might take offense some of the time, but the fact remains the same..

The fact that you come off as an arrogant asshole? You get so fired up at the slightest hint of change or requests. If you deal with real life this way, it is amazing to me you have made it this long. Seriously. The world turns on diplomacy and manners. If everyone ran around telling everyone what was on their minds, you know how messed up things would be?

The best way to explain how I communicate is simply explain that I tend to handle things the way Kyle does, it may seem gruff but it's what I know, again sorry but that's how I talk..

For that matter who are you to judge me?

Don't hide behind Kyle. You are not and never will be Kyle.

You have judged me. Doesn't feel good, does it?

And just what do you think caused that attitude, did I always have this attitude???

Something you'll never know because even though you may have started in 2001, you weren't around to see what caused the majority of the issues the older members have with the way things are going.

So, since I wasn't around when King birthed this team from his very loins, then I am not worthy enough to have an opinion, a say? THIS is the attitude that I am speaking about. The elitist, entitlement, "I am better than you" bullshit.

It has to stop, King.

As for explaining what I mean about bad form, up until the time the new mods came in to play all links to other projects and other teams were deleted on the spot(cited as BAD FORM) by Kyle, CIWS, and relic.

You're pushing members away from this team to another team, or another project.

The only exception to this ever made was the UD project and that was due to the fact that a lot of us had already started working on the project.

Who have I sent to another team!? What other projects have I pushed!!? You find me proof before you accuse me of something. I give my heart and soul to this team. And I don't let my over inflated ego get in the way when something doesn't go my way.

This team support 2 projects. FAH and UD. This has not changed.

The name of the forum is also, "Distributed Computing" for a reason. While this team officially supports a certain 2 projects, I refuse to stomp on freeness of speech to talk about another project. Would you have me do this, King? Would you?!

And you know what? You are full of shit. LPerry talked about his wanting to do a climate prediction program all the time back in the day and it was never squashed. Get your facts straight!

Another matter that must be brought to light, I posted this thread because there was confusion about where the new logo was going to be used since you deleted the other messages that explained it.

Now who started the thread downward this time (since I get blamed for all the other downward threads)?

Again, the martyr. If things are so hard for you here, why are you still here?

 

[Kvothe]

maybe get together on irc on the weekend and figure out the role of the council and maybe the council should look at inducting some new fresh blood

Duster, as far as that is concerned, IRC is no longer a viable place to hold any discussion. Kyle had told us that IRC is to not be mentioned in the forum as it is not sanctioned by him and is only allowed to be mentioned on hf.com as it is now. So as for team matters, the only sanctioned channel is the forums at this time.

 

[KodiakStar]

Just as an aside... other then the Old guard not wanting the old logo to change, why not change the logo there as well to the new one (if a new one is selected) that way it all looks good together!

 

[AtomicMoose]

I posted it because the other messages explaining it got deleted from the thread, but it seems that they couldn't just leave it at that.

You knew the second you hit submit where this thread would lead.

There wasn't a question about what it was for. It was laid out in the design thread.

Here, let me help you out.

 

[sandmanx]

Good god, this thread is like a family reunion when 2 brothers that haven't talked in 20 years see each other.

What exactly does the "old guard" have against change anyways? Shit, half of them aren't even active anymore. Just accept the fact times have changed and work something out. Things have changed a lot since I started folding in 2002, but I see no problems with the way the team is run now.

 

[unhappy_mage]

God damn it.

Just when I thought the issue had been resolved - we're not gonna mess with hardfolding, leave it how it is, this is just for the thread - it goes straight into drama mode.

Seriously, guys, what is it with this group and self-sabotage? Here we are, in the lead by ~5 million points, ducky ours for a month or something, and what are we doing to stay in the lead? Bickering over a picture.

I'm gonna shut up and fold now until the storm blows over. Who's with me?

 

[ICE_9]

/raises hand

Oooo! oooooo!!! Pick me!! Pick me!!!!!!

 

[Mohonri]

/raises hand
Oooo! oooooo!!! Pick me!! Pick me!!!!!!

Me too. This kind of politicking solves nothing, creates bad feelings, and drives new people away. I think I'll stick to the fun threads and helping out new team members. I didn't even know until today that there even was a council, and frankly, it won't affect me one way or another.

I think a significant portion of this thread should have been kept in PMs or edited/deleted to remove the flaming (both ways).

 

[Kvothe]

I think that in light of all that's gone on today, its time this goes the way of the dodo. From what I am gathering from my IM's and such, things are getting sorted in one way or another.

What's been said is said, and there's no reason to censor it. This will just be a reminder of how personally we all take what we do.