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New intel build

DejaWiz

DejaWiz

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Apr 15, 2005
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1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
***Mostly gaming

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
***$1,000 USD including shipping

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
***Nebraska

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
***Case, Mobo, CPU, 2xSSD for RAID0 Boot, PSU, Extra Case Fans, Spindle HDD for storage.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
***Keyboard, Mouse, Monitor: Asus VW246H, GPU: GTX 570, Memory: G.Skill 2x4GB 1333, ODD: Lite-On 16x DVD-r, Xigmatek Dark Knight, 2x Arctic Cooling 120mm PWM.

6) Will you be overclocking?
***Yes!!

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
***1080p, 24"

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
***Building in 2-4 weeks

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
***SATAIII w/RAID0 support, Capability for Intel IGP, USB 3.0 Header, UEFI would be nice, LOTS of 4-PIN PWM FAN HEADERS (7x 120mm PWM fans in total, but a couple/few of them can share a single header).

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
***Already have Windows 7 x64



Here's what I have pieced together so far...

Case: $60
CM HAF 912

PSU: $90
OCZ ZT 750W

CPU: $220
i5-2500K

MoBo: $200
Intel DZ68BC

SSD: $200
Samsung 830 64GB (x2)

HDD: $130
WD Black 1TB

Case Fans: $38
AC 120mm PWM (x4)

Moar RAM!: $38
G.Skill 2x4GB 1333

Total w/shipping and promo codes:
$988

Your thoughts, feedback, and advice is greatly appreciated!
 
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Few problems. First is that OCZ PSU.

Go with this one instead: $104.99 - CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W

Second problem is that motherboard. I don't see anything in that board that will require you to need it based on your answer to #9. Even with the fan requirement, I don't even think it has that many fan headers on it anyway. Most only have about 4 or 5. So what about that motherboard do you need?

The SSD, go with this one instead.

$94.99 - Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III

Hard drive wise, go with this one
$136.28 - HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.D HDS721010DLE630 (0F13180) 1TB 7200 RPM

Why do you need all those case fans? The case you selected has plenty of cooling options, not to mention the two fans you've already had.

RAM is cheap, not gonna argue going with more there.

Sorry for the lack of explanations, I'll explain later unless someone else does. Don't have much time.
 
Skillz said:
Few problems.

1. First is that OCZ PSU.

Go with this one instead: $104.99 - CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W

2. Second problem is that motherboard. I don't see anything in that board that will require you to need it based on your answer to #9. Even with the fan requirement, I don't even think it has that many fan headers on it anyway. Most only have about 4 or 5. So what about that motherboard do you need?

3. The SSD, go with this one instead.

$94.99 - Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III

4. Hard drive wise, go with this one
$136.28 - HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.D HDS721010DLE630 (0F13180) 1TB 7200 RPM

5. Why do you need all those case fans? The case you selected has plenty of cooling options, not to mention the two fans you've already had.

RAM is cheap, not gonna argue going with more there.

Sorry for the lack of explanations, I'll explain later unless someone else does. Don't have much time.
Click to expand...

1. I thought the ZT series were pretty stout PSU's?

2. That motherboard has 4x 4-pin pwm headers, perfect for my needs.

3. I've read so many positives on the 830 series, that I feel it would be worth it over the M4's... I really would like the Plextor M3's for their 5yr warranty, but I had to opt for the cheaper 830's to meet my budget.

4. Warranty length plays a factor for me, which is why I went with the 5yr WD Black.

5. Want to populate every stinkin' fan mount in the case. :p Well, and for max airflow capability when needed.
 
DejaWiz said:
Warranty length plays a factor for me, which is why I went with the 5yr WD Black.
Click to expand...

Here's the problem:

Thw WD Blacks (all of the current ones) use platter layouts that are now more than two years old. That is, they still use 500GB platters when Seagate and Hitachi have been using 667GB and 1TB platters for quite some time now. Worse, none of Western Digital's own 7200 RPM hard drives use platter densities higher than 500GB per platter. As a result, the maximum sequential transfer speed of that 1TB WD Black barely surpasses 130 MB/s (in my testing using HD Tune) while the newest drives from both Hitachi and Seagate hit nearly 190 MB/s. In fact, the 1TB and smaller WD Blacks are even slightly slower than their 1.5TB and 2TB siblings (which put the outer tracks closer to the edges of the platters). To achieve even 667GB per platter from Western Digital's own branded hard drives, you'll have to settle for a drive that spins at only 5400 RPM, which is almost always slower than 7200 RPM hard drives for OS/programs use.
 
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DejaWiz said:
1. I thought the ZT series were pretty stout PSU's?
Click to expand...
They're actually good PSUs. It's just that I don't trust OCZ's customer support. At least with Corsair, they actually have a rep here on the forums so that gives you another avenue of contact.

As for the SSDs, do note that unless you're doing a ton of file transfers, you honestly wouldn't notice that much of a difference between 2 x 64GB SSDs in RAID 0 and a single 128GB SSD as RAID 0 doesn't improve upon the random read/write speeds, the hallmark feature of SSDs, that much. I'd stick with a single SSD for simplicity's sake.

As for the specific SSD choices, the Samsung 830 series are good SSDs but due to the price cuts that some Crucial m4 SSDs have received, some of the Samsung 830s just aren't good enough to justify the extra costs. Example: The Crucial m4 128GB costs $165:
$165 - Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SSD

The Samsung 830 128GB costs $200. The 830 just isn't good enough to justify the extra $35.

DejaWiz said:
5. Want to populate every stinkin' fan mount in the case. Well, and for max airflow capability when needed.
Click to expand...
While you do need indeed get better cooling with more fans, you actually see really diminishing returns after the 3rd and 4th fans:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/02/10/the-big-cooling-investigation/1

As such, having all those fans may not actually be cost-effective.

Also to add-on to what E4g1e said: What matters more to you? Long warranty but low performance or shorter warranty and higher performance?

EDIT: Any chance that you can wait for the IB CPUs to hit in late April/early May?
 
Eagle and DB, thanks for the insight!

I didn't realize WD was still implementing now-defunct tech with their black series. I think I'll go with the Hitachi drive since it's 50% faster with transfer speed.

As for the fans, does the PWM play a factor at all with the quantity? I was thinking having more would allow them to ultimately run at a slower speed, thus keep noise and temps down.

Will having 2 SSD's in R0 help keep boot times and application load times to a minimum over a single?

PSU: I found that the OCZ being fully modular would help out with cable management a ton, but if their CS is horrible in the off chance something goes wrong with it, then I can live without it. Likely I'll stick with the Corsair.

DirtyB:
I may be forced to wait until IB becomes available, as this build won't be happening until my tax return hits my bank account, which is estimated to be 2-4 weeks, and maybe out at far as 6-8, but unlikely.
 
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DejaWiz said:
Will having 2 SSD's in R0 help keep boot times and application load times to a minimum over a single?
Click to expand...

In this case, not really. In fact, RAIDing the SSDs in a RAID 0 will completely defeat many of the good things about SSDs, such as TRIM. And when TRIM is completely defeated, the degradation of the SSDs' reliability (or more specifically, the likelihood of severe data corruption) will increase exponentially with SSDs rather than mathematically with HDDs. So, instead of a 6 percent chance of RAID 0 failure from HDDs, the likelihood of an SSD failing or spitting out corrupt data in a RAID 0 will increase very substantially - to nearly 1 in 5. That's a totally unacceptable and extremely high risk of data corruption and/or SSD failure.
 
Not to mention loading the RAID Array usually adds to the "boot" time, more so than a single SSD can load it. Therefore, I wouldn't RAID SSDs on boot time alone.

If you really need modular, then spend the money on a better PSU with better customer service. Sometimes, what you pay is what you get.
 
Thanks for the further insight, Eagle and Skills. I'm going to have to tweak my build a bit to incorporate everyone's suggestions thus far. I have a hard cap on my budget, but I'll make it work. I'm now thinking a 650W modular PSU will suffice for my needs, especially since it's unlikely I'll ever have the need for SLI/XFire and the already low power draw of LGA1155, so I can save a little money there.
 
DejaWiz said:
I'm now thinking a 650W modular PSU will suffice for my needs, especially since it's unlikely I'll ever have the need for SLI/XFire and the already low power draw of LGA1155, so I can save a little money there.
Click to expand...
Probably not as good quality modular 650W PSUs will usually end up costing more than the 750W non-modular PSU Skillz listed. That Seasonic X-650 deal that DirtyB posted is a great PSU and an excellent deal but one that doesn't matter to you at all since that PSU is only on sale till the 19th.

Though if you're willing to drop down to a 620W:
$90 - SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze 620W Modular PSU
 
I think 620w would be fine with a mild to moderate 2500k oc, 1-2 SSD's, a single spindle HDD, a single GTX 570, and some lower rpm PWM fans.
 
Pick up a quality PSU used off the forums here. Should save you $30-40 and still be under warranty.
 
Hmmm, what is everyone's thoughts about going with an i7-3820 and a budget X79 board? I think I can squeeze it into my $1000 cap. Better lifespan over LGA1155?

Oh yeah, forgot to mention this, but I don't overhaul my system except once every 4-5 years, so I'm looking for a long term solution. Not saying I won't drop in a CPU or GPU upgrade in a couple/few years...
 
No guarantee either way so far as which socket will survive longest. You know you'll get Ivy, but that's the only certainty, and that's true with both. I see no reason given your usage to go with X79 over Z68 / Z77, you won't need the extra PCIe lanes or RAM channels from X79 and X79 chips and boards are pricier.
 
Good points, all of them. I'll stick with 1155 and save the added cost. Would it be a better choice for longevity to go with the 2600k and skip the new spindle drive? I have a 500GB SATA II I can reuse if needed for now and just buy another HDD later down the road of I need the extra space and hopefully by then HDD prices will have dropped to near pre-flood levels.
 
2500K/2600K, doesn't really matter. Certainly not worth the premium. Best if you're concerned about long term performance to save by getting the 2500K, resell in a few months and pick up Ivy. Best if you can wait would be to just get Ivy first, save the trouble and loss from resale value.
 
Since this is primarily a gaming rig, no reason at all to go with the 2600k or any of the i7s since one of the major things they have over the i5s are hyper threading, which has been around for ages and games still don't benefit from it.
 
^ again, great points and I doubt HT enabled games will be pouring out devs doors soon let alone even a few years from now.

Sticking with 2500K (or 3570K if tax return takes longer than expected).
 
I think I'm going to buy all the fans, then duplicate the tests from Bit Tech in order to compare and contrast with what PWM adds to the mix. I know it won't be exact since I'll have a different chassis, but it'll help paint the picture of PWM vs 100% fan speed.

I'm still on the fence over the ZT 750W PSU... the promo code and mir rebate is excruciatingly tempting right now, and that's about all I'll be able to afford for this build until tax return.

Quick question about an SSD as a boot drive: is it OK to keep the Windows paging file on it? If yes, then should it be left at the default system managed size setting or should it be hard set to a specific size? Or, should it be offloaded to the spindle drive altogether and disabled on the SSD boot?
 
DejaWiz said:
I'm still on the fence over the ZT 750W PSU... the promo code and mir rebate is excruciatingly tempting right now, and that's about all I'll be able to afford for this build until tax return.
Click to expand...
Like I said: Good PSU but shitty customer service. That's enough for me to not recommend it to people I don't dislike.
DejaWiz said:
Quick question about an SSD as a boot drive: is it OK to keep the Windows paging file on it? If yes, then should it be left at the default system managed size setting or should it be hard set to a specific size? Or, should it be offloaded to the spindle drive altogether and disabled on the SSD boot?
Click to expand...

Depends on who you talk to really. Me, I'd put the paging file somewhere else just for shits and giggles. But people have left the paging file on their SSD (albiet hard setted to a small size like a gig or so) without issue.
 
DejaWiz, post up your final build list and lets see what areas we can save money in so you don't have to purchase anything from OCZ.

Right now I'm seeing...a total ~$1014 total with a Corsair HX750W Modular PSU, 128GB Crucial M4, 4 120MM fans, HAF 912, 2500k, Intel MB, Hitachi HDD, and the 8GB kit of DDR3.
 
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Danny Bui said:
Like I said: Good PSU but shitty customer service. That's enough for me to not recommend it to people I don't dislike.
Click to expand...

See, and that's the biggest deterent for me... no/lacking support means money down the shitter if something were to go wrong. The more I think about it, the more I'll likely end up going with a Corsair modular unit.


Depends on who you talk to really. Me, I'd put the paging file somewhere else just for shits and giggles. But people have left the paging file on their SSD (albiet hard setted to a small size like a gig or so) without issue.
Click to expand...

I just assembled a system for a friend and the first thing I did was move the paging file over to his spindle drive and completely disabled it on the boot SSD...figured it would help prolong the life a bit.

That's probably what I'll end up doing myself once I get this bitch built, but I just wanted to check to see what the general consensus was on the matter.
 
Skillz said:
DejaWiz, post up your final build list and lets see what areas we can save money in so you don't have to purchase anything from OCZ.
Click to expand...

Case: CM HAF 912
$60

CPU: 2500K
$220

MoBo: DZ68BC
$200

SSD:
Crucial M4 128GB (for me)
Crucial M4 64GB (for my wife's system. Nothin' says lovin' like a fresh SSD... :p )
$259

RAM: G.Skill 8GB 1333
$38

Fans: AC 120mm PWM (x5)
$47.50

PSU: ?????
$???


TOTAL w/o PSU: $824.50

(Will re-use my current 500GB SATA-II drive for the time being.)
 
So you aren't getting the HDD?

$155.98 - CORSAIR Professional Series HX750

Total: $980.48
 
Skillz said:
So you aren't getting the HDD?

$155.98 - CORSAIR Professional Series HX750

Total: $980.48
Click to expand...

No, not at this time. I've been running with a single 500GB for 5 years now and it's only 47% full, as I offload a bunch of stuff to a 200GB I stuck in an external enclosure for backup/size reduction.

I've decided that HDD prices are insane compared to what they were pre-flood, so I'm going to wait until prices come down significantly. I don't see a die-hard need for 1TB of capacity right now, so I can wait at least a few years and revisit the prospect of having a genuine need for the drive space.

What about the TX650 or HX650? Does anyone feel I'll be just fine with a 650W unit running only the following over the next 3-5 years?

-i5-2500K targeting 4.2-4.6 GHz OC
-SSD qty1
-HDD qty1, maybe 2
-GTX 570 qty1 (my GPU typically get upgraded every 2-3 years, but we know that future models will have lower TDP)
-DVD-r qty2, maybe add a 3rd ODD like a BR-re down the road
 
Yes a 650W PSU will be plenty as long as you don't try to SLI that 570. The 2500k uses like ~151W of power and the 570 is like ~260W under full load. All that other stuff utilizes the 5V rail and any fans wont use much at all (Most 120mm fans use less than 2W) so you'd technically be good with a 550W unit, but stick with a 650W just to be safe.

$129.99 - CORSAIR Professional Series HX650
 
Skillz said:
Yes a 650W PSU will be plenty as long as you don't try to SLI that 570. The 2500k uses like ~151W of power and the 570 is like ~260W under full load. All that other stuff utilizes the 5V rail and any fans wont use much at all (Most 120mm fans use less than 2W) so you'd technically be good with a 550W unit, but stick with a 650W just to be safe.

$129.99 - CORSAIR Professional Series HX650
Click to expand...

How are the fully modular AX series? I certainly have room in my HDD-less budget for either the AX650 or AX750...
 
The AX750 is also Seasonic X design, therefore it's a solid contender. If you can afford it, then I'd go with it or the 650W version.
 
Skillz said:
The AX750 is also Seasonic X design, therefore it's a solid contender. If you can afford it, then I'd go with it or the 650W version.
Click to expand...

I'll probably go with the Seasonic X650 or maybe the X750 since they appear to be a few bills cheaper than the Corsair. No sense in paying more for the same damn thing.
 
DejaWiz said:
I'll probably go with the Seasonic X650 or maybe the X750 since they appear to be a few bills cheaper than the Corsair. No sense in paying more for the same damn thing.
Click to expand...

Well the Corsair unit has a longer warranty and I believe it has a few more connectors than the Seasonic. However, internally they are the same.
 
I think I'll be OK with the 5YR warranty on the Seasonic, being as that's my typical turn-over time for system overhauls/builds. But dammit, I can get the Corsair 7 year warranty for only a 10 dollar bill more. Decisions, decisions...
 
If it were me and you aren't concerned with the warranty or the extra cables, I'd go with the X750. The X650 was on sale which made it a very, very good buy... but it's currently sold out on Newegg at least.
 
Skillz said:
If it were me and you aren't concerned with the warranty or the extra cables, I'd go with the X750. The X650 was on sale which made it a very, very good buy... but it's currently sold out on Newegg at least.
Click to expand...

I saw that deal and damn, smoking hot! Sold out fairly quick, too!

I'll probably end up with either the X750 or the AX750, whichever is in stock with the better incentives (if any) at build time.
 
CASES!

Which one?

1. Antec 302
2. CM HAF 912
3. Corsair 400R

...and why?

Or, if it's not on the list, suggest me one.
-What I would like to have is bottom mount PSU, mid-tower size, Qty2 USB 3.0 would be a huge plus.

:D
 
400R out of those three if you can afford it. Better cooling, better cable management, and better quality than either of those two cases. At $65 shipped from Newegg, the HAF 912 is just a tad overpriced. If it was $60 shipped, then it would be worth it. And yes that $5 makes a difference. As for the Antec 302, at its current price of $80 shipped from Newegg, it's simply not worth it as it's relatively cramped and its quality is a little worse than the HAF 912. When one can get the vastly superior 400R for $15 to $20 more, no point in getting the Antec 302.
 
Thanks, DB! I appreciate the advice you've provided, it's been a big help.
 
I just stumbled upon the Corsair 300R chassis. Any thoughts about this one in comparison to the 400R?

I like that it's a bit smaller of a case, but still has the set features of it's big brother.
 
OK, just got my tax return early! Wife gave me permission to up the budget over $1,000... "within reason", so I need some final advice before I order tomorrow or Sunday.

Case:
Corsair 400R $120
Corsair 550D $120 amir
CM HAF 912 $55 amir
CM HAF 922 (red) $90 amir

SSD:
2 x 256GB Crucial M4

MoBo:
Intel DZ68BC

CPU:
i5-2500K

RAM:
G.Skill 2x4GB 1.5V 10666 (already have 1 of these, this will make 16GB total)

PSU:
Seasonic X750 (sitting here next to me)


Other than the case, here's another couple options:
1. 1x128GB + 1x256GB M4's and go for the i7-2600K/2700K
2. 2x128GB M4's and go for an MSI X79-GD45(8D) + i7-3820 (maaaaybe a 3930K)
 
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