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New Graphics Card

X

Xenomaniac

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Messages
1,592
I'm getting ready for SC2 release so I'm upgrading my graphics card. Right now I'm playing the Beta and I can play the game at medium quality but I want to go Ultra or at least close to. My card is 2 years old now so I'm assuming it's about time for an upgrade. I'm trying to keep within the $100 price range and I'm gonna be purchasing a Corsair 400CX 400W PSU because mine is falling apart (see my topic in Power Supplies). I would also like to stick with NVIDIA Graphics card because I've been a avid Geforce card user and never had any problems with them.

My current specs are in my signature minus the ram, I've upgraded that to 4 gigs.
 
For the $100 price range, your best bet would be the $80 9800GT available today:
$80 - BFG Tech BFGE98512GTGE GeForce 9800 GT 512MB PCI-E Video Card

That $80 price ends today. So hurry up and decide :)

Though for an extra $30, the HD 4850 is significantly faster:
$110 - PowerColor AX4850 1GBD3-PH Radeon HD 4850 1GB PCI-E Video Card

The closes Nvidia counterpart is the GTS 250:
$115 - Palit NE3TS25EFHD02 GeForce GTS 250 1GB PCI-E Video Card

Though the GTS 250 is slower than the HD 4850 IIRC.

EDIT: Completely forgot: that 9800GT is the same as the 8800GT you have now. Forget the 9800GT.
 
I had a buddy who ran an 8800gs on high settings. Sounds like your cpu is the issue.
 
I used to only consider NVIDIA too but I think, at the end of the day, it's our own loss not to consider everyone if the specs are right. Right now it seems that, for comparable cards, ATI's offerings are cheaper and run cooler. I would recommend the ~$160 ATI 5770 which is the highest mid range card in the current ATI lineup. Though it is $60 outside of your budget I think the added cost is well justified as you can even play some of the latest demanding FPS games with it.
 
 
I'm sorry but you're not going to get playable FPS on Ultra with that cpu/gpu combination. There's not really a much better card than the 8800GT for $100 either. A 4770 or 4850 would be an improvement... but not much.
 
I'm running an Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2160 @ 1.80 ghz 1.80 ghz. I know I can over clock it but I don't know how to do it and need to get a better fan first. My Mother board is a Gigabyte S-Series GA-P35-DS3L. FSB 1333. According to the box it is Quad core optimized. All of this is in my sig.

The game runs great on Medium.
 
In my own opinion ATI currently had the upper hand if you don't care about PhysX but a good price to performance ratio. From what I hear and read the current NVIDIA cards are overpriced, get hot, and don't have a comparable range of cards like ATI does. Of course, from what I hear and experience ATI's driver support is worse but at least you can get them to work.
 
Xenomaniac said:
But why ATI? I always thought that Nvidia would be better?
Click to expand...

Here is the reason:

The only NVIDIA GPUs that are currently in the same price range as the 5750 or 5770 are all either very old GPUs (after all, the GTS 250 is a higher-clocked version of the G92 GPU which debuted in the 8800 GT almost three years ago -- in fact, the GTS 250 is basically a new name for the 9800 GTX+) or at the end of their product lifecycles (the GTX 260 is at the end of its production life, and any cards based on that GPU are leftover stock in warehouses). In other words, NVIDIA currently has absolutely nothing at all whatsoever (besides old, outdated GPUs) which competes with ATi in terms of both performance and features in the $100 to $200 price range.

And this situation will not improve anytime soon: NVIDIA has no current plans for a GT or GTS 4xx series Fermi-derivative GPU priced much less than $250 - but instead, in the sub-$200 price range that company will simply rehash its old, outdated GPUs and shrink their die sizes and give them new names. For example, the GTX 2xx series GPUs will likely receive a die shrink, a somewhat crippled memory bus (for example, 128-bit GDDR5 or 256-bit GDDR3 instead of the original GTX 2xx's 448- or 512-bit GDDR3 memory bus) and a new "GTS 340" or "GTS 350" name. (I know that NVIDIA would likely do this given its recent history with its lower-end GPUs - and I know that its GT 240 is essentially a die-shrunk 9600 GT with a 128-bit GDDR5 or GDDR3 memory bus.)
 
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Xenomaniac said:
I'm running an Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2160 @ 1.80 ghz 1.80 ghz. I know I can over clock it but I don't know how to do it and need to get a better fan first. My Mother board is a Gigabyte S-Series GA-P35-DS3L. FSB 1333. According to the box it is Quad core optimized. All of this is in my sig.

The game runs great on Medium.
Click to expand...

Ok if you've got a socket 775 motherboard, then you've got a drop in upgrade path to a Q9550. Those run around $225 brand new, you could save some on that with Bing cashback.

After that I'd recommend a 5770 for around $150. So you're looking at around a $400 outlay here. I know this is above your budget, but this would come closer to running SC2 at the settings you want.

If you don't want to pay for a new CPU, then you need to OC your current dual core to above 3.0 ghz. 3.6 would be best, but that chip probably won't OC much over 3.0.
 
Xenomaniac said:
I'm running an Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2160 @ 1.80 ghz 1.80 ghz. I know I can over clock it but I don't know how to do it and need to get a better fan first. My Mother board is a Gigabyte S-Series GA-P35-DS3L. FSB 1333. According to the box it is Quad core optimized. All of this is in my sig.

The game runs great on Medium.
Click to expand...

I have the exact same motherboard. I made sure my bios was updated, dropped in a q9400 and overclocked it to 3.2ghz without changing anything but the fsb (a monkey could have done it). It run so cool even at 3.2ghz that even the stock fan would work out just fine.
 
Another vote for the 5770. You can find it on Newegg for below $160 after rebates, and offers some future proofing.
 
Sheesh, all that cheddar to upgrade the cpu?

I'd say get a $60 Gigabyte AM3 board, a $65-$80 Athlon II x3 or Phenom II x3, a $100-$110 HD 4850 and call it good. Use your existing memory.

Wait, your sig says your rig is overclocked to "3.0G". What gives?
 
ragejg said:
Sheesh, all that cheddar to upgrade the cpu?

I'd say get a $60 Gigabyte AM3 board, a $65-$80 Athlon II x3 or Phenom II x3, a $100-$110 HD 4850 and call it good. Use your existing memory.

Wait, your sig says your rig is overclocked to "3.0G". What gives?
Click to expand...

Oh yep it does. Not true. A friend of mine was going to do that for me but never pulled through. Don't know why I did that.

So it definitely sounds like I should get the 5770. My processor can be over clocked, I just need to read the manual and find out how. I'd feel safer if I got a better fan and over clock the processor then use the stock. I'll get a new processor later down the road. I got to save a good amount of my money for my last year at college.
 
Xenomaniac said:
I'm running an Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2160 @ 1.80 ghz 1.80 ghz. I know I can over clock it but I don't know how to do it and need to get a better fan first. My Mother board is a Gigabyte S-Series GA-P35-DS3L. FSB 1333. According to the box it is Quad core optimized. All of this is in my sig.

The game runs great on Medium.
Click to expand...

At stock the E2160 is a dog in performance for modern games. At 3ghz it should be okay.

Overclock it. There should be hundreds of guides to get you started. All you have to do is google.. You can easily do 2.8ghz. Overclocking is very simple. Raise the FSB so you can hit 2.8 ~ 3.0 ghz. Try 266FSB x 9= 2.4ghz. If that passes go for 333FSB x 9= 3ghz. If it crashed raise voltage and use higher timings on the ram but I doubt you will have ram problems as most ddr2 are rated 333mhz or above. Set the ram divider to 1/1..
 
ragejg said:
Sheesh, all that cheddar to upgrade the cpu?

I'd say get a $60 Gigabyte AM3 board, a $65-$80 Athlon II x3 or Phenom II x3, a $100-$110 HD 4850 and call it good. Use your existing memory.

Wait, your sig says your rig is overclocked to "3.0G". What gives?
Click to expand...

I don't understand why suggest upgrading to a different platform when he has a perfectly fine system already?

It's really a waste imho when all he has to do is slap on a new intel processor with what setup he has. Less hassle, less head ache, less money spent.

To OP: You should overclock your CPU if you aren't satisfied with the free performance out of overclocking you can always get a quad for your Intel motherboard.
 
Xenomaniac said:
But why ATI? I always thought that Nvidia would be better?
Click to expand...

Nvidia has lot of key OEM deals and have more user base but I wouldn't say better. Things have been shifting with RV770 and now AMD has Nvidia by the balls. If AMD really wanted they can slap that Fermi upside Jen's head with a faster GPU using the same architecture. Imagine 2x 5870 in a single die vs GTX 480 while both eating same watts to run. That's how much more efficient AMD's Radeon is at the moment.

Currently Nvidia doesn't even have a Fermi based mainstream card like 5770. You don't have much choice with Nvidia. You either buy power hogging Fermi for $350+ that will cost you 2x more in the long run than AMD's Cypress or you buy old architecture that cost more than AMD's Juniper while eating more watts.
 
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For $100 you can't upgrade your video card, the 8800GT is only 1 step below the current $100 cards and sometimes even goes for $100 still. The only real option would be to SLI your 8800GT but your mobo doesn't support SLI so no good. You could sell your 8800GT and buy a GTS 250 for probably $60 difference and get a small but noticeable upgrade.

I don't think even OC'd your CPU is going to be great for SC2 though.. RTS's are very cpu heavy games.
 
Please, either overclock your CPU or get a new one. At 1.8ghz a e2160 is not good enough. I overclocked my friends e2160 to 3ghz before. Its not your card, its your processor.
 
I was able to run a mix of high/ultra on my old rig using a 820D Pentium dual core at 2.8Ghz (iirc) and an 8800GT so it's definitely your processor holding you back. I think with a 3Ghz overclock you'll be running high/ultra as well.
 
ELox said:
I was able to run a mix of high/ultra on my old rig using a 820D Pentium dual core at 2.8Ghz (iirc) and an 8800GT so it's definitely your processor holding you back. I think with a 3Ghz overclock you'll be running high/ultra as well.
Click to expand...

Actually, the Pentium D is even weaker (performance-wise) overall than most of the Core 2-based Pentium Dual-Core processors. This is because the Netburst architecture of the old Pentium D is both inefficient and power-hungry at the same time. The only programs in which the Pentium D might outperform some of the Pentium Dual-Core Exxxx series processors are those which use a large amount of L2 cache and those that don't take anywhere near full advantage of either processor.
 
Overclocking your cpu is a breeze. You should be able to get 8x375 without any temperature difference, need to add voltage or buy a new fan.

F1 or delete for bios.
Change your FSB to 375
Make sure your multiplier is set to 8.
8x375= 3000 or 3ghz for short.
 
lloose said:
Yeah, so the obvious route is to take the money and blow it on a video card. Good advice.
Click to expand...

That's kinda what I was getting at.. 8800GT isn't really upgradable at $100 and his CPU blows.. so.. 2 and 2 together..

Some people in the thread think the CPU can be OC'd so much that it'll run SC2 so I was leaving the conclusions to them.. I for one don't think it'll handle the game even OC'd but it's free to try.
 
MrXROK said:
Nvidia has lot of key OEM deals and have more user base but I wouldn't say better. Things have been shifting with RV770 and now AMD has Nvidia by the balls. If AMD really wanted they can slap that Fermi upside Jen's head with a faster GPU using the same architecture. Imagine 2x 5870 in a single die vs GTX 480 while both eating same watts to run. That's how much more efficient AMD's Radeon is at the moment.

Currently Nvidia doesn't even have a Fermi based mainstream card like 5770. You don't have much choice with Nvidia. You either buy power hogging Fermi for $350+ that will cost you 2x more in the long run than AMD's Cypress or you buy old architecture that cost more than AMD's Juniper while eating more watts.
Click to expand...

QFT (at least at the moment). And in that $100~$130 price range you buy old architecture that eats up more watts than AMD's Juniper LE (whose average Web-order price is within that price range) and still does not outperform that particular AMD GPU overall.

In other words, going with NVIDIA in this price range is NVIDIotic.
 
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Xenomaniac said:
I'm running an Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2160 @ 1.80 ghz 1.80 ghz. I know I can over clock it but I don't know how to do it and need to get a better fan first. My Mother board is a Gigabyte S-Series GA-P35-DS3L. FSB 1333. According to the box it is Quad core optimized. All of this is in my sig.

The game runs great on Medium.
Click to expand...

That processor is about the equivalent to a 3800+ X2 Socket 939 processor. It only has 1MB of L2 cache (which is very low for a C2D processor, hence the Pentium name). However, if you can OC it at all, it will help you tremendously.

My gf has the exact same processor paired with a GTS250 and it plays games very well at stock speeds. However, if you are trying to play modern (2009-2010) games on anything over medium, you need to have a better processor to feed the video card. Honestly, upgrading my gf's machine from a 9800GT to a GTS250 did absolutely nothing, indicating the processor is the bottleneck.

Even if you can find a cheap quad-core, or a fast dual-core CPU for your board, it would help the video card upgrade tremendously, if it were even needed at that point.
 
noquarter said:
For $100 you can't upgrade your video card, the 8800GT is only 1 step below the current $100 cards and sometimes even goes for $100 still. The only real option would be to SLI your 8800GT but your mobo doesn't support SLI so no good. You could sell your 8800GT and buy a GTS 250 for probably $60 difference and get a small but noticeable upgrade.

I don't think even OC'd your CPU is going to be great for SC2 though.. RTS's are very cpu heavy games.
Click to expand...

Read my post above this one, the OP won't see any difference. It's totally the CPU holding him back. ;)
 
Red Falcon said:
Honestly, upgrading my gf's machine from a 9800GT to a GTS250 did absolutely nothing, indicating the processor is the bottleneck.
Click to expand...

Were you expecting it to do anything? Seriously it's not much of an upgrade. Just a side grade.
 
I'm going to try over clocking it right now. I'll post the results. ANyone figure out how to pull up the FPS on SC2 Beta yet?

Right now I'm on the Bioscreen, I have the CPU clock Ratio set at 8. CPU Frequency says 3 ghz. CPU Host Clock Control Enabled. CPU host frequency (mhz) 375. Performance enhance standard, system memory multiplier auto and system voltage control auto. Nothing is flashing and all looks good.

Worked. Tried it out on Fear 2 and was working great, then the entire computer shut down. Wont power up. Think the power supply is done.
 
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In those situations you unplug the AC power cord from the computer and plug it back in or clear cmos (should be in your motherboard manual how to do it) to set everything to normal settings.

You should raise voltage. Say 1.4 volts from default voltage 1.325. Before testing anything game you should download orthos to test stability. Let it run for few hours and if it doesn't have any errors you should be relatively safe with your new clocks.

Also you might want to set the FSB down. Let it run default multiplier of 9 in stead of 8. Try 333 FSB instead of 375 which still equate 3 ghz.
 
Xenomaniac said:
I'm going to try over clocking it right now. I'll post the results. ANyone figure out how to pull up the FPS on SC2 Beta yet?

Right now I'm on the Bioscreen, I have the CPU clock Ratio set at 8. CPU Frequency says 3 ghz. CPU Host Clock Control Enabled. CPU host frequency (mhz) 375. Performance enhance standard, system memory multiplier auto and system voltage control auto. Nothing is flashing and all looks good.

Worked. Tried it out on Fear 2 and was working great, then the entire computer shut down. Wont power up. Think the power supply is done.
Click to expand...

Pop out the CMOS battery for a few seconds and pop it back in. I think you forgot to change the memory multiplier back to your rams original speed. I forgot what the setting was called but it should have 2 sets of numbers next to it. Make sure you change the setting there so both numbers are the same and match the speed of your ram in MHz.

Edit: you don't need to screw with your CPU voltage for this overclock.
 
MrXROK said:
Were you expecting it to do anything? Seriously it's not much of an upgrade. Just a side grade.
Click to expand...

Actually, in other systems with decent CPUs I've run, upgrading from a 9800GT to a GTS250 had a noticeable improvement. So yeah, I was. Too bad the processor was a bottleneck.
 
I went from a 8800gt to 9800gtx. Whopping 15% better in games. That's when you actually benchmark the game but actually noticing improvements? That's hard to swallow.
 
E4g1e said:
Actually, the Pentium D is even weaker (performance-wise) overall than most of the Core 2-based Pentium Dual-Core processors. This is because the Netburst architecture of the old Pentium D is both inefficient and power-hungry at the same time. The only programs in which the Pentium D might outperform some of the Pentium Dual-Core Exxxx series processors are those which use a large amount of L2 cache and those that don't take anywhere near full advantage of either processor.
Click to expand...

Yes the Pentium D was the first dual core processor produced and it was certainly showing it's age, I was using it with a 1600x1200 monitor and the 8800GT until recently. Moving from the Pentium D to the Phenom took me from medium settings at 1600x1200 to medium/high at 1920x1200. The recent change from 8800GT to 5870 took me from med/high to high/ultra with AA.
 
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