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New Gaming Rig, Help Appreciated.

M

mattshu88

n00b
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
17
First thing worth mentioning is that I've never build a PC before and therefore I'm very open to others' input. Secondly, the focus of this PC is to be as "future proofed" as possible so that I only have to focus on upgrading one piece at a time in the future. As far as how good I want it to be, I want to be able to play games like: Starcraft 2, Quake Wars, Unreal 3, Hellgate: London, Crysis, and CoD 4 on max or near max settings with a reasonable resolution. (20" LCD Monitor) Currently I'm at ~$2k if it can go down some while still meeting the previous conditions that's great.

Mobo - ASUS P5K3 Deluxe/WiFI-AP - $245
Reason I've picked this mobo is that it has 2 PCIe slots allowing me to go SLI or use a PhysX card should that take off. It also supports DDR3 which seems to be the future of memory. And finnaly it supports Intel's quad core as well as their next gen CPU.

GPU - MSI NX8800GTX-T2D768E-HD OC GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 - $500
Good enough for above mentioned games as well as some next gen games?

PSU - SILVERSTONE ST85F ATX12v/EPS12v 850W - $220
Reason I picked this one is that it is modular and 850w probably good enough?

CPU - Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz - $285
Getting a quad as that appears to be the new Duo.

RAM - CORSAIR 4x1GB DDr3 1066 - $364
Cheapest DDR3 I could find since I'm expecting DDR3 to scale up soon so I don't have to upgrade the most expensive DDR3.

HD - Western Digital Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB 10krpm - $190
Recommend by a friend.

CPU Cooler - Tuniq T-120-LFB - $68
Recommend by a friend.

Well that's all I've got for the moment, friend told me that I won't need anymore cooling, but this is coming from someone who's having stability issues. So what do you guys think. I won't need this up and running until Oct. 31 when Hellgate: London comes out so if you think there's something coming out before then or shortly after that's worth waiting for I can wait on that piece.
 
Wow, just excessive on all fronts. Lets go through each one by one shall we?

Mobo:
Sorry man but you cannot go SLI with a P35 chipset motherboard. Only nvidia's 650i and 680i chipset motherboards have SLI. Also, very very few games support Physx cards. I really doubt it'll take off since CPUs these days has more than enough power to handle physics calculations.

Also SLI is only worth it if you have a 30"+ monitor and if you go with the 2 of top card right now. Also SLI is not cost effective since there's usually a single video card that can perform roughly the same or even better than two cards in SLI and for a cheaper price.

GPU:
Actually with your 20" monitor, all you really need is the 8800GTS 640MB or the 320MB version even. And since Nvidia is supposedly releasing its G92 video cards in november, it's really not a good idea to spend that much on a video card now since the launch of newer, faster, and possibly cheaper cards is so close.

Also no one knows exactly what video card you need exactly in order to play all those future games at max resolution and detail. So don't try to plan for the future too much. Just get what you need now. Not what you might need later on.

PSU:
Actually a bit excessive. The Corsair 620HX 620W PSU is all that you really need.

RAM:
DDR3 is simply not worth it. All you really need is DDR2 800 RAM these days for any Core 2 Duo CPU. Intel CPUs do not benefit that much from faster RAM. Also, 4GB of DDR2 800 RAM is significantly cheaper than DDR3. In addition you can get 4GB of DDR2 1066 RAM for cheaper as well. Don't bother with DDR3 since it isn't that much faster than DDR2 RAM and it's more expensive to boot.

HDD:
Since you have the money, go for it. However, two 320GB Seagate 7200.10 in RAID 0 can outperform a single Raptor and offers twice as much storage and for $10 less.

CPU cooler:
No problem with this one.

Also, planning this build list this early is not a good idea since prices tend to fluctuate. Also there will be new parts being or close to being released near Oct 31. So if I were you, I'd ask this question again in mid October.
 
I don't see the logic in going DDR3. Now or in the future. As of today there is no reason to go the DDR3 route. Futhermore where in the pipeline is the killer app. or piece of hardware that will truly benefit from DDR3?
 
I agree with Danny.

By the time DDR3 performance surpasses DDR2 and is more cost effective, there will be new chipsets/motherboards out that will take far better advantage of it than current chipsets. DDR3 support just isn't worth the money right now.

Quad core CPUs still aren't exactly mainstream. They will be though, beginning next year. Still, most software don't take advantage of quadcores yet. So, if you're into upgrading, go for a cheap dual core now, and upgrade to a quadcore within a year.

While DDR3 will scale up, if you buy it now, theres no advantage of it over DDR2. And, while DDR3 matures, you'll be stuck with an old kit that doesnt perform well. You're better off with DDR2. Its just not time for DDR3 yet.

Raptors aren't very cost effective. Newer PRT drives have become so fast, that the performance difference between them and the raptor no longer justifies the raptors price premium...

78MB/s: WD Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB, $160AR
65MB/s: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS 320GB, $80
65MB/s: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3300620AS 300GB, $60
52MB/s: WD Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB, $70

112MB/s: RAID0 'cuda's, 600GB total, $120 (ICH9R on P35-DS3R)

As you can see, the 'cuda is twice the size and half the cost, for nearly the same performance. Stick them in RAID0, and you've got an even more cost effective solution!

For the build you're looking at, by the time an upgrade is needed, you'll need all new hardware anyhow, so no point in going for "future proof"... especially since nothing in this industry is future proof.
 
Well, it seems I've got a beta invite for Hellgate: London so I'll need this up and running sooner than expected.

From input I've changed to:

Mobo - GIGABYTE GA-P35-DQ6
HD - Seagate Barracuda ES ST3320620NS x2
RAM - CORSAIR XMS2 DDR2 800

Further input? Will I need any additional pieces of hardware to put it all together, planning to salvage CD / DVD / Floppy (maybe) drives from current computer, but rest is in the list. Am I missing anything? I'm a little concerned with cooling and case size, what kind of dimensions will my new case have to be to fit everything inside?

Wishlist link = https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersio...asp?WishListNumber=8084467&WishListTitle=MATT
 
What about the DQ6 made you choose it?

Thats some expensive RAM. All you really need is a DDR2-800 kit thats around $225... but eh, its your money, not mine.

Also, the ES drives aren't worth their price premium, IMO. Just go for the regular 7200.10 drives. They're on sale at Fry's, btw, if you have on in your area.

What case are you planning on using?
 
I think you should look over Danny Bui's suggestions again and revise your list further. The DQ6 is very expensive, and unless you need CrossFire support (which you absolutely shouldn't,) there's little reason to consider it. Look at the ABIT IP 35 Pro, or even the IP-35 / E or Gigabyte DS3R. Either of these motherboards will serve you well now and in the future.

Again, a GTX 8800 is overkill for your resolution and a considerable waste of money, especially since prices haven't come down. A GTS 320 is really all you need, and in a year you'll be able to upgrade to a superior graphics processor and still spend less for both cards than what you'd spend for a GTX now.

Good luck with the rig,

Mark.
 
I don't agree that an 8800 GTX is overkill at 1600x1200, based on personal experience. I can make the card work if I try. But then... I'd more demanding than most, apparently.
 
enginurd said:
What about the DQ6 made you choose it?

Thats some expensive RAM. All you really need is a DDR2-800 kit thats around $225... but eh, its your money, not mine.

Also, the ES drives aren't worth their price premium, IMO. Just go for the regular 7200.10 drives. They're on sale at Fry's, btw, if you have on in your area.

What case are you planning on using?
Click to expand...


Reason I went with that RAM was because a few people mentioned that the DQ6 was kinda picky about the RAM however Corsair works fine. Since I'll just go with a different mobo I'll switch RAM as well. And actually there is a Fry's in y area. Have to look at what they've got on sale before I order everything from newegg.


I think you should look over Danny Bui's suggestions again and revise your list further. The DQ6 is very expensive, and unless you need CrossFire support (which you absolutely shouldn't,) there's little reason to consider it. Look at the ABIT IP 35 Pro, or even the IP-35 / E or Gigabyte DS3R. Either of these motherboards will serve you well now and in the future.

Again, a GTX 8800 is overkill for your resolution and a considerable waste of money, especially since prices haven't come down. A GTS 320 is really all you need, and in a year you'll be able to upgrade to a superior graphics processor and still spend less for both cards than what you'd spend for a GTX now.

Good luck with the rig,

Mark.
Click to expand...

Well between the Gigabyte DS3R and the ABIT IP 35 Pro, which do you prefer? I was thinking the DS3R since it had more PCIe slots as well as SATA.

Can a GTS 320 handle the games coming out later this year (tops 3 months) at full graphics?
 
I went with the DS3R because I think the IP35 Pro is overpriced. However, if all its features are worth its price to you, then go for it.

Hm... latest games at max settings on 1600x1200? I think you're better off with the GTX.
 
So everything is taken care of except cases I believe. I'll need a lot of space and a lot of cooling. Right off the bat, I'll have the hard drive, memory, video card, and sound card to cool. So I expect things will get pretty hot in there.

Quick question: does the DS3R support raid5? Read another one of your posts that said in raid0 I'm pretty screwed should one drive fail, but in raid5 I can get the data back? If raid5 isn't supported, would I be better off paying the premium for the ES cudas to reduce the risk? link to mobo - http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813128048
 
Yes, the DS3R has RAID5. I wouldn't pay the extra price for the ES drives, but thats just me. Keep in mind, if two drives fail, your RAID5 array is gone. Its always good to have some form of offline backups, so keep that in mind. I use an external HDD.
 
After researching the RAID levels, I'm going to just stick to raid0. I've never had a HD crash before so it must be a pretty rare under normal circumstances and just use my 2G flash drive for backing up important files and just use install disks to recover applications and such.

Still undecided on what case + additional cooling I'm going to need.
 
 
Starting to finalize the list (https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersio...asp?WishListNumber=8084467&WishListTitle=MATT)

As regards to the Ultra, I'm fairly confident that the 9200s and such won't surpass it soon enough to warrant waiting around for them and once they do come out the new technology price will keep it out of reach for a little while anyways. That's just my opinion anyways.

As for the audio and case I'm still looking a little, reason I've picked that case in particular was it's size and upgrade possibility on air cooling. Any opinions on that?

Already purchased 2x of the SG Baracudas, am I gonna need a raid controller or will onboard handle it. (Also would raiding up more increase performance linearly or does it drop off after the first 2?)

Thanks for the input so far guys :)
 
I believe the only raid level that gains noticeable performance due to more drives is RAID0.

According to one user here, the CM 832's fan door won't close with the Tuniq.

For audio, check out the Auzentech cards.
 
enginurd said:
I believe the only raid level that gains noticeable performance due to more drives is RAID0.

According to one user here, the CM 832's fan door won't close with the Tuniq.

For audio, check out the Auzentech cards.
Click to expand...

What I meant with the raid question was if there was a noticeable difference with 2 drives in raid 0 vs 8 drives in raid 0. Besides a much larger chance of array failure.

Any ideas on a case that'll fit the TT without having to uninstall fans, leaving doors open, or leaving a side panel off, ect?

As for Auzentech cards is there a noticeable difference worth the extra cash? Then for the surround sound headsets, is the razor a good choice there?
 
mattshu88 said:
What I meant with the raid question was if there was a noticeable difference with 2 drives in raid 0 vs 8 drives in raid 0. Besides a much larger chance of array failure.
Click to expand...

Yes. However, I don't think the that performance increase is linear.
 
mattshu88 said:
What I meant with the raid question was if there was a noticeable difference with 2 drives in raid 0 vs 8 drives in raid 0. Besides a much larger chance of array failure.

Any ideas on a case that'll fit the TT without having to uninstall fans, leaving doors open, or leaving a side panel off, ect?

As for Auzentech cards is there a noticeable difference worth the extra cash? Then for the surround sound headsets, is the razor a good choice there?
Click to expand...

Actually, instead of looking for another case, what would be the next best cooler that would fit? The TT seems like it just nearly misses so I don't think it'd have to be too much shorter to squeeze in.
 
mattshu88 said:
Actually, instead of looking for another case, what would be the next best cooler that would fit? The TT seems like it just nearly misses so I don't think it'd have to be too much shorter to squeeze in.
Click to expand...

Finding a different case is worth it. The TT is arguably the best air cooler on the market.
 
silent-circuit said:
Finding a different case is worth it. The TT is arguably the best air cooler on the market.
Click to expand...

Well I'm loving all the extra fans the CM supports. Wouldn't a Zalman 9700 (90 x 124 x 142mm) / 9500 (85 x 112 x 125mm) + 4 extra side panel fans beat out the TT? Any better ideas here? Also the extra fans will help to cool on the memory and video card, while the TT only cools the cpu...

Such a hard decision! :confused:
 
mattshu88 said:
Actually, instead of looking for another case, what would be the next best cooler that would fit? The TT seems like it just nearly misses so I don't think it'd have to be too much shorter to squeeze in.
Click to expand...

The Scythe Ninja Plus Rev.B with a Thermalright LGA775 Bolt-Thru kit and a SilenX or S-Flex fan.

Though, if you want to keep the case AND Tuniq, it only requires a tiny bit of cutting to the fan door.
 
enginurd said:
The Scythe Ninja Plus Rev.B with a Thermalright LGA775 Bolt-Thru kit and a SilenX or S-Flex fan.

Though, if you want to keep the case AND Tuniq, it only requires a tiny bit of cutting to the fan door.
Click to expand...

Don't want to do any cutting on first build ;)

Gonna go with the ninja + fan combo then.

As for the additional fans for the case, SilenX or S-Flex good to go there as well? I don't want to make my room sound like a wind tunnel with using a ton of loud fans :p
 
Buying links:

$36 - Scythe SCNJ-1100P Ninja Plus Rev.B CPU HSF (120mm fan 1200RPM 49CFM 20.9dBA Sleeve bearing)
$24 - SILENX IXP-74-11 IXTREMA PRO 120mm fan 1100RPM 46CFM 11dBA FDB
$14 - Scythe S-Flex Fan - SFF21E 120mm fan 1200RPM 49CFM 20.1dBA S-FDB
$7 - Thermalright LGA775 Bolt-Thru-Kit

S-FDB/FDB = (S- sony) Fluid Dynamic Bearing

For Case fans, Yate Loon Sleeve bearing fans are good and cheap. Case fans aren't as critical to a system as the CPU HSF, so sleeve bearing is more cost effective..
$5.00 - YATE LOON 120mm Fan - D12SL-12C 1300RPM 44.5CFM 20.8dBA Sleeve
$3.50 - YATE LOON 120mm Fan - D12SL-12 1350RPM 47CFM 28dBA Sleeve
 
Just to check in on whether I'll need a different power supply, can it handle everything I'll be running?

DS3R
8800 Ultra
6600 Quad
Barracuda (x2)
Scythe Rev B
SilenX (x1)
Yate Loon D12SL (x7)
4GB RAM
Audio Card Here (sometime in the future)
Physics Card Here (sometime in the future)

Will my 850w supply handle all that and then some (overclocking)?
 
Take it I'm all good to go at this point? No need for fan controllers or raid controllers? Any additional accessories I'll need to put things together and such?
 
Should be good. I would go with a different case and CPU cooler, but cases are mostly personal preference anyway.
 
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