New gaming/3d modeling/music creation/programming rig

[zenblu]

Hi and thank you for taking the time to take a look and/or leave a comment!
I'd very much appreciate your comments on my new build. I am aiming at the sweet spot, but I don't want to skimp and I am ready to put more money where it would count.

1) What will you be doing with this PC?

• gaming
• 3D modeling with GPU compute rendering
• music composition
• programming
• image processing, photography (HDR, etc.), 2D graphics

I care about stability, quality of components/reliability and the system running cool. The room gets very hot during the summer, so good cooling is important (summer temperatures over 40C/100F).

2) What's your budget?
Very flexible, I can spend more, but only if it makes sense performance/price ratio-wise. Up to $2k probably

3) Which country do you live in?
Japan

4) Parts

Already have:
Case: Corsair Obsidian 650D - I've heard about issues with negative airflow. Any suggestions how to mod/add fans if you think it's needed for high ambient temps in the summer appreciated!
Sound card: Asus Xonar D2X

Need:
Motherboard: I think I prefer Asus. Right now thinking about Z87-Plus (no wifi, but Intel LAN). Also considering Maximus Hero, would it have better components/cooling? I don't care about good onboard audio, WiFi or overclocking, but I'd like good quality components and good cooling.
CPU: Intel Core i5-4670
CPU cooling: I was thinking to go with stock Intel, unless recommended a reasonably-priced alternative.
Memory: 16GB. No idea which one to choose yet. I'd like a good performing kit that won't break the bank however.
GPU: Nvidia for sure. GTX 760 or 770. 2GB or 4GB. Right now planning to go with Gigabyte, but open to suggestions. This is a hard decision. I want to be future proof, but I'm not sure if I need 4GB. Also I'm not sure if 770 is now in a good spot performance/price-wise. Not only for games, but also GPU compute for 3D modeling.
PSU: Corsair probably. Not sure which wattage. Want good quality and stable. TX should be enough? Are HX/AX much better quality/stability-wise and to cost? I've heard that I don't need modular for 650D, but willing to listen to recommendations.
Storage: I'd like two quality and good performing HDDs in RAID1 and a small fast SSD just for system/boot partitions, no data (120GB is more than enough probably).
Optical drive: Suggestions please? Don't really need BD writer that much, but if they are cheap now, I can get one.

6) Will you be overclocking?
No. But I expect the ambient temperatures in the room to be high.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
1920x1200. Planning to get additional 1920x1200 or 2560x1440.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Right away

9) What features do you need in a motherboard?
Good quality components, stable and good cooling. RAID1 for redundancy and some additional read speed. No Firewire, SLI perhaps in the future maybe, but not critical. Good LAN (Intel 1Gbps) required. No WiFi.

10) OS
64bit. Linux and Windows 7.

 

[Dangman]

Are there any online Japanese computer hardware stores that you are buying from?

With that said, don't get the Core i5 4670K since you're not overclocking. You'll be fine with the Core i5 4570. Also, considering that you have high ambient temps, get a 3rd party HSF like the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo at a minimum. The Corsair H80i is a solid choice if you're willing to spend more.

As for your cooling issue, read this article on to best set up your case fans for the most optimal cooling setup:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/02/10/the-big-cooling-investigation/1

Finally, please answer question 10 of that sticky.

 

[zenblu]

[deleted double post]

 

[zenblu]

Thanks!

Are there any online Japanese computer hardware stores that you are buying from?

yodobashi.com
tsukumo.co.jp
I usually search for prices on kakaku.com though.

But newegg/US prices are fine to work with.

With that said, don't get the Core i5 4670K since you're not overclocking. You'll be fine with the Core i5 4570. Also, considering that you have high ambient temps, get a 3rd party HSF like the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo at a minimum. The Corsair H80i is a solid choice if you're willing to spend more.

Right, thanks. And I care about VT-d and TSX-NI.
As for cooling. I'm not sure if I'm ready for water... 212 evo looks good though. Any other air options to consider?

As for your cooling issue, read this article on to best set up your case fans for the most optimal cooling setup:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/02/10/the-big-cooling-investigation/1

Very interesting, will read, thanks for the link.

Finally, please answer question 10 of that sticky.

Right, sorry about that. Updated the first post.

 

[Dangman]

Motherboard wise, the Z87 Plus is overkill since you're not overclocking. In fact, since you're not overclocking, you really don't need that much of a high-end mobo even with your high ambient temps. So the Maximus Hero is a bad choice for you. At most, and I mean, AT MOST, go for the Asus Z87-A motherboard. Otherwise, I'd recommend the MSI Z87-G43 motherboard.

CPU cooling wise, the Corsair H80i isn't actually a true water cooling kit (it's less than $300 for one reason) and is a self-contained liquid setup. It cools better than most air-cooling HSF out there. With that said, if you still want a air-cooling HSF, go for the Noctua NH-D14 since it closely matches the H80i.

The TX PSU is enough. However, the HX is of higher quality than the TX and has modular cables. The AX is even higher quality than the HX and is also modular. I would highly recommend a modular PSU since it still helps no matter what case you have.

RAM wise, just make sure it's rated at 1.5V and at DDR3 1333 or DDR3 1600 speeds. No need for higher speed nor does it really matter what CAS it is. Also, make sure it's a 2 x 8GB set since that'll maximize the amount of RAM you can upgrade to later on.

GPU wise, right now I would hold off on the GPU since AMD's new GPUs might affect the pricing of Nvidia GPUs. In addition, what 3D modeling program will you be using? Also, will you be using Adobe Photoshop as well?

SSD wise, go for the Samsung 840 120GB.

DVD burner wise, go for the cheapest one you can find. They're all practically the same quality wise.

 

[zenblu]

Thank you very much for the recommendations Dangman!

Motherboard wise, the Z87 Plus is overkill since you're not overclocking. In fact, since you're not overclocking, you really don't need that much of a high-end mobo even with your high ambient temps. So the Maximus Hero is a bad choice for you. At most, and I mean, AT MOST, go for the Asus Z87-A motherboard. Otherwise, I'd recommend the MSI Z87-G43 motherboard.

Hm... I really prefer the Intel NIC and the bigger heatsinks seem more dependable. Also, is there no component (capacitors?) quality difference between them?

CPU cooling wise, the Corsair H80i isn't actually a true water cooling kit (it's less than $300 for one reason) and is a self-contained liquid setup. It cools better than most air-cooling HSF out there. With that said, if you still want a air-cooling HSF, go for the Noctua NH-D14 since it closely matches the H80i.

Whoa, Noctua looks huge, although 212 EVO isn't small either. But I guess there shouldn't be any clearance problems. I'll probably go with 212.

The TX PSU is enough. However, the HX is of higher quality than the TX and has modular cables. The AX is even higher quality than the HX and is also modular. I would highly recommend a modular PSU since it still helps no matter what case you have.

Good point, I'll probably end up taking HX. I'm not sure whether to go with 750 or 850. The price difference is pretty substantial (25%), so I'll probably choose 750. Should be enough for my setup I think and probably for the next few years and new GPUs?

RAM wise, just make sure it's rated at 1.5V and at DDR3 1333 or DDR3 1600 speeds. No need for higher speed nor does it really matter what CAS it is. Also, make sure it's a 2 x 8GB set since that'll maximize the amount of RAM you can upgrade to later on.

I was eyeing these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233299 or these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231568. They seem to be just about the best 1600s I can get? 9-9-9, CAS9.

Although now I found an article on Anand saying to avoid 1300 and 1600 and go with 1866: http://anandtech.com/show/7364/memory-scaling-on-haswell/10 ... Not sure what to think anymore.

GPU wise, right now I would hold off on the GPU since AMD's new GPUs might affect the pricing of Nvidia GPUs. In addition, what 3D modeling program will you be using? Also, will you be using Adobe Photoshop as well?

I guess 760 2GB it is then... I will be using Blender on Linux (hence strict NVidia GPU requirement, good drivers for Linux). 2D much less often actually, and then probably open source (such as Luminance HDR, etc.). But 2D is not really that important overall.

SSD wise, go for the Samsung 840 120GB.

Looks like the EVO variant should be the best choice?

DVD burner wise, go for the cheapest one you can find. They're all practically the same quality wise.

Great! I'll probably choose from LG.

Thanks again!

 

[tiraides]

Hm... I really prefer the Intel NIC and the bigger heatsinks seem more dependable. Also, is there no component (capacitors?) quality difference between them?

All motherboards made by good manufacturers will work well for stock operation. Since you aren't overclocking -- and your components will be properly cooled, if you take Dangman's recommendations to heart -- there's no reason for you to choose the Asus Z87-PLUS or the Asus Maximus (anything) over the MSI Z87-G43.

Good point, I'll probably end up taking HX. I'm not sure whether to go with 750 or 850. The price difference is pretty substantial (25%), so I'll probably choose 750. Should be enough for my setup I think and probably for the next few years and new GPUs?

The HX650 is all that you need for this system. But more often than not, the HX750 has better deals. Unless you're definitely going with a dual-card setup (e.g. either GTX 690 or two GTX 770s in SLI mode), there's no good reason for you to look at the HX850.

I was eyeing these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233299 or these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231568. They seem to be just about the best 1600s I can get? 9-9-9, CAS9.

Although now I found an article on Anand saying to avoid 1300 and 1600 and go with 1866: http://anandtech.com/show/7364/memory-scaling-on-haswell/10 ... Not sure what to think anymore.

My understanding of that article was that, due to the steadily increasing DDR3 RAM prices, DDR3 1333 and DDR3 1600 aren't as great a value as DDR3 1866 (in the author's view).

But under stock operations, all RAM will clock down to either DDR3 1333 or DDR3 1600 (depending on the motherboard being used).

RAM kits are like motherboards in that a good manufacturer will make good products regardless of whether they're "entry level" or "high end." You don't need Corsair Vengeance or G.Skill Ripjaws (whatever) RAM for your system. It will work just fine and last just as long if you were to use Corsair Value Select or G.Skill Value Series RAM.

Looks like the EVO variant should be the best choice?

The 840 EVO series is slightly better but the "plain" 840 series is slightly cheaper. If performance is preferred, I recommend the EVO.

 

[zenblu]

Again, thank you for replies.

I think I still have two undecided points and would appreciate some more input:

- the easy one, HDDs, I'd like two identical 2-3TB HDDs for RAID1, the fastest and most reliable I can get; WD Caviar Black? Seagate Barracuda?

- the difficult one, GPU: I could go with Gigabyte GTX760 2GB for $260 (Japanese price, incl. tax), but then I will probably have to upgrade it in about a year I think?
Or I could go with Gigabyte GTX770 2GB for ~$470... My previous GTX470 was good enough for 2-3 years, if I'd gotten 460 then, I would have probably had to upgrade it earlier. So I was thinking 770 might be a good investment, but also not sure how long would 770 with 2GB be good. 4GB is actually very expensive here, about $600, so it would be a bit too much...

Thanks!

 

[Dangman]

- the easy one, HDDs, I'd like two identical 2-3TB HDDs for RAID1, the fastest and most reliable I can get; WD Caviar Black? Seagate Barracuda?

Either one will work. Pretty much a toss-up in terms of reliability.

- the difficult one, GPU: I could go with Gigabyte GTX760 2GB for $260 (Japanese price, incl. tax), but the
n I will probably have to upgrade it in about a year I think?
Or I could go with Gigabyte GTX770 2GB for ~$470... My previous GTX470 was good enough for 2-3 years, if I'd gotten 460 then, I would have probably had to upgrade it earlier. So I was thinking 770 might be a good investment, but also not sure how long would 770 with 2GB be good. 4GB is actually very expensive here, about $600, so it would be a bit too much...

At a $210 difference, not worth it. You can use that money towards a newer faster card.

 

[tiraides]

- the easy one, HDDs, I'd like two identical 2-3TB HDDs for RAID1, the fastest and most reliable I can get; WD Caviar Black? Seagate Barracuda?

The easy answer is to go for the cheaper drives -- in the U.S., that would be 2TB Seagate Barracudas.

The honest answer is more complicated. We don't know the overall reliability of the post-Thailand-flooding hard drives, plus Western Digital and Seagate both reduced the warranties of most of their consumer drives to one or two years. The WD Blacks still have their five-year warranties, but if you ever need to replace them, you're likely to end up with a refurbished drive instead of a brand new one.

WD Blacks are supposed to be the fastest around, but virtually all of the new SATA 6Gb/s drives use 1TB drive platters. Unless you're running a slew of benchmarks on each drive, it would be hard to tell the difference with everyday tasks. Then again, even the fastest 7200RPM hard drive is no match for a good SSD.

If you already have a proper back-up system in place -- e.g. multiple redundant sources, with one of them being "offline" (or capable of going offline) -- I recommend going with the cheaper option.

- the difficult one, GPU: I could go with Gigabyte GTX760 2GB for $260 (Japanese price, incl. tax), but then I will probably have to upgrade it in about a year I think?
Or I could go with Gigabyte GTX770 2GB for ~$470... My previous GTX470 was good enough for 2-3 years, if I'd gotten 460 then, I would have probably had to upgrade it earlier. So I was thinking 770 might be a good investment, but also not sure how long would 770 with 2GB be good. 4GB is actually very expensive here, about $600, so it would be a bit too much...

Which level of visual settings do you use while gaming? Are you prone to using third-party texture packs to make things look better?

There's no reason why the GTX 760 would be inadequate for gaming at a 1920x1080 resolution. Yes the GTX 770 is better than (one) GTX 760, but you're not going to see a 50 percent (or greater) performance boost.

Having said that, is there any reason why you aren't looking at AMD cards? The HD 7970 recently received a price drop and the next generation of cards, notably the R9 series, was recently released.

 

[zenblu]

The easy answer is to go for the cheaper drives -- in the U.S., that would be 2TB Seagate Barracudas.

The honest answer is more complicated. We don't know the overall reliability of the post-Thailand-flooding hard drives, plus Western Digital and Seagate both reduced the warranties of most of their consumer drives to one or two years. The WD Blacks still have their five-year warranties, but if you ever need to replace them, you're likely to end up with a refurbished drive instead of a brand new one.

WD Blacks are supposed to be the fastest around, but virtually all of the new SATA 6Gb/s drives use 1TB drive platters. Unless you're running a slew of benchmarks on each drive, it would be hard to tell the difference with everyday tasks. Then again, even the fastest 7200RPM hard drive is no match for a good SSD.

If you already have a proper back-up system in place -- e.g. multiple redundant sources, with one of them being "offline" (or capable of going offline) -- I recommend going with the cheaper option.

WD Black 2TB (WD2002FAEX) is $160 here, while the Barracuda 2TB (ST2000DM001) can be had for $80... Wow. Things have changed since I've last built a PC...

Is this really the warranty difference? 5 years is nice, but be it 1 or 5, it doesn't matter much if my data is lost. And I'd just replace the drive for a brand new one anyway. And with this kind of price difference, maybe WD can just afford the 5 years' warranty, without being more reliable (heck, they could even be worse).

I really don't know what to think anymore. Ultimately data safety is the main goal. I do have backups, but still, I want the drives not to die. Even though I understand we don't know really, I don't remember in many, many years such a big disparity in prices between WD and Seagate. Unless I'm reading into your last sentence a bit too much, it really seems like people might be wary of Seagate right now...

Which level of visual settings do you use while gaming?

Highest playable at 1920x1200, although I usually turn off AA or tone it down. I was thinking about trying out 2560x1440, but probably not in the next few months. Maybe even not in a year or two. If I get a 1440p, I can still use 1920x1200 for games on the old monitor.

Are you prone to using third-party texture packs to make things look better?

No.

There's no reason why the GTX 760 would be inadequate for gaming at a 1920x1080 resolution. Yes the GTX 770 is better than (one) GTX 760, but you're not going to see a 50 percent (or greater) performance boost.

Yeah. I think I've decided to go with 760. I'm not that hardcore of a gamer.

Having said that, is there any reason why you aren't looking at AMD cards? The HD 7970 recently received a price drop and the next generation of cards, notably the R9 series, was recently released.

Yes. They have much better drivers for Linux and from my experience they work very well for GPU compute in Blender on Linux. This is one of my requirements.

 

[Dangman]

WD Black 2TB (WD2002FAEX) is $160 here, while the Barracuda 2TB (ST2000DM001) can be had for $80... Wow. Things have changed since I've last built a PC...

Is this really the warranty difference?

That and the small performance increase that tiraides mentioned and a slightly higher chance of reliability .

I really don't know what to think anymore. Ultimately data safety is the main goal. I do have backups, but still, I want the drives not to die. Even though I understand we don't know really, I don't remember in many, many years such a big disparity in prices between WD and Seagate. Unless I'm reading into your last sentence a bit too much, it really seems like people might be wary of Seagate right now...

You're reading way too much into the last sentence. No matter how much you spend on the HDD, there's still a chance that it can die. Even server grade hard drives, which are technically more reliable than regular consumer grade drives, still die. Remember what Tiraides wrote first: "The easy answer is to go for the cheaper drives -- in the U.S., that would be 2TB Seagate Barracudas."

So might as well save money and use that towards a proper and up-to-date backup solution.

As for the price disparity, it's more than likely due to your location: The ST2000DM001 can be found for ~$94 while the WD Black 2TB is ~$148 here in the U.S. I mean, you did say earlier that the 4GB GTX 770 was $130 more than the 2GB GTX 770 in your area. Compare that to here in the U.S where there's only a $30 to $50 difference. Or that the GTX 770 costs $200 more than the GTX 760 whereas in the U.S it's a ~$140 price difference.