New computer build.

X

xazraelx

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
77
Well, my old amd opteron 146 build got hit by lightning (ran through the ethernet...), and I miss it dearly. I'm now forced to use an old dell laptop.

Well, I'm pretty sure most everything in my old PC is fried except for the hdd and optical drive. It booted and everything, but it was sluggish, wouldn't "learn" new devices, and after taking it apart, the mobo was actually bent from the heat. So, I don't think I can salvage anything except the hdd, plextor drive, and case.

However, I'm going to be building a new (cheaper) computer. I'm not into video games much anymore, I just play a little counter strike here and there, and will probably be playing Starcraft II when it comes out. I don't do much video editing, though I will be fooling around with it, but it's certainly not something I'm building a computer for. So, basically, it's for a college kid's needs and light gaming.

My debate is between a single core amd or a core 2 duo intel. I have, for as long as I've built computers, loved AMD - but in the last couple years, apparently a lot has changed. The new technology leaves me ignorant to a lot of things, which becomes my question...single core amd or dual core intel? Which one will run *better* to suit my needs? I plan on spending about $600, maybe a little more or less, but I have my eye on the E6750 (which would probably push me into the $800-900ish range :p). I know they say the 6600 is preferable because of the 6750s correlation to the 6420, but any thoughts? As for the amd single, I'd probably side with another opteron 146, if I could find one. It was a fantastic processor.

So...I need opinions, and will probably not be building this for another couple weeks, so I need a few opinions :)

I really don't want to spend more than $500ish dollars, and, in all honestly, would buy a cheap 1.6ghz laptop if I thought it would last as long and be as hassle free as all four of my desktops I've built in the past five years have been. It's just...I don't think I'll ever be satisfied with a downgrade, and would prefer to keep it on the same par as my old pc.

Sorry for the long wind, and for the first post being this (heh), I will try to update within a couple days for a build after I hear about the amd/intel debate..

Cheers,

William


First attempt:


GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3 LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813128012

EVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814130062

Rosewill RD500-2-DB 500W,ATX12V v2.2 Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817182044

Intel Core 2 Duo E4400 Allendale 2.0GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E4400 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115014

OCZ Platinum Revision 2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model CZ2P800R22GK - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820227139

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822148262

Feel free to tear it apart with your opinions...it's a learning experience. Thanks :)
 
do yourself a favor and choose the gigabye p35 ds3r instead of the p965. P35 is newer chipset and it will support .45 cpus... the P965 might not. Its only $20 more. Well worth it.
 
There's a guy selling a MacBook Pro for $800 in the FS/FT forums. Might want to talk to him, see if he'll go lower on it. Can always run XP or Vista on it. I think he said it's under warranty until March of next year.

Drop the Rosewill PSU for an Xclio Goodpower at very least. Might also look in to Corsair's 450VX.
 
I agree, ditch that rosewill. The only rosewill psu worth buying is the RP500-2, reviewed at jonnyguru.com. The RD500 is nowhere near as good as the RP500.

$126 - Intel Core 2 Duo E4400 Allendale 2.0GHz
$89 - ABIT IP35-E LGA 775 Intel P35 ($20 MIR)
$90 - eVGA 256-P2-N615 Geforce 7600GT 256MB ($15MIR)
$75 - G.Skill 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-800 F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ
$70 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200RPM SATA300 16MB Cache
$50 - XClio Goodpower 500W ATX 500W
===========
$500 + tax and shipping - $35 MIRs

If you need the legacy ports, get the DS3L instead:
$100 - Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35

AMD Alternatives:
$130 - AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Windsor 2.6GHz Socket AM2
$80 - Biostar TF560 A2+ AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA nForce 560 MCP
 
Thanks for all the replies. Now what do you guys think about the 64 x2 models versus the core 2 duos. I've been hearing a *lot* about intel outperforming amd lately, but I will always be an amd fanboy at heart. I'll try to find some charts to do some comparisons myself, but anyone have any opinions?

And thanks again :) The feedback is much appreciated.

William


Edit: After looking at charts comparing photoshop, games, video rendering, etc...The amd actually looks to outperform the intel (in this specific 1v1 comparison). Anyone have anything to say with this? Thanks :)
 
Well at stock speeds and depending on the price bracket, AMD CPUs will outperform similarly priced C2D CPUs below $170. This is due to AMD's many price cuts. The price cuts caused high-end AMD CPUs to be priced at low-end Intel CPUs levels which gave the view that AMD CPUs could outperform C2D CPUs.

However, the story is different once you overclock a C2D. With most C2D CPUs, you can easily hit 3.2Ghz with just the stock HSF (though with slightly high temps) and maybe a slight voltage adjustment. Once OC'd, a C2D CPU, clock for clock, will outperform most if not all AMD CPUs out there. It's ridiculously easy to OC a C2D CPU. Just raise the FSB. That's all. Maybe a slight voltage increase for added stability but thats also easy to do.

So now it comes down to you. At stock speeds, an AMD CPU will be your best bet. However, a very-easy-to-do OC'd C2D can easily outperform that AMD CPU. So it depends if you're keeping the system at stock speeds or if you're willing to overclock.

xazraelx said:
I know they say the 6600 is preferable because of the 6750s correlation to the 6420, but any thoughts? As for the amd single, I'd probably side with another opteron 146, if I could find one. It was a fantastic processor.
Click to expand...

Actually the E6750 is more preferable. Though the E6750 replaced the E6420 in the $180 price bracket, it outperforms, OC's significantly better than and is priced $40 lower than the E6600.
 
Yah... what Danny said.

Summary:
AMD's are faster out of the box and cheaper, but can't OC as high as Intels.

Intel's are more expensive but perform better, clock for clock. They also have huge OC potential.
 
Personally, I would go with Intel over AMD right now. Also, get a P35 chipset MoBo and ditch that PSU for an XClio at the least. For a little more money, the Antec Earthwatts 500 is nice (what I have) and for a just a bit more you can get a Corsair HX520 (probably would have been my choice if I hadn't gotten such a good deal on the package of PSU/Case).
 
Thank you guys for preventing me from making a bad decision...I like overclocking, so yeah.

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions...more questions may come in the future :)
 
Okay, well, it's almost time for me to be ordering, so now I need a quick review before I order everything next week. The following is what I have so far (yes, yes, It's basically the list with what you guys have said ^^ thanks!), but I have one (or two :D) qualms.

First is a question on an external media drive. Floppy/sd/etc, to fit in a 5.25 bay slot. Are there any exceptional differences on them? I'm going to read up on them now, just curious. Now for the biggie...

The motherboard...Now, I'm not proficient with new parts, but I did take a look at two of the mobos that were recommended. The gigabyte ds3l and the p35 - both looked great, had great reviews, but they are lacking one or two things. The prominent thing I noticed is firewire...my external hdd is firewire, so I kind of need it there. What I need in the mobo is support for ddr2-800 ram (2 sticks of 1gb), sata, firewire, at least 2x pci slots (preferably more), pic-expressx16 (no need for sli). The processor will be an e4400, which I plan on overclocking, so beware on that aspect. I don't need the older mouse/keyboard styles, mine are both usb - I don't need onboard lan, though I guess it might be nice (but I already have a couple ethernet cards laying around). So, pardon my ignorance, where should I seek? Oh, and price - around 75-125, though preferably keeping it below 100 (not necassary! I want this to last)

Oh, and the case. I was originally going to be using my older case, but I'm leaning against it. When I got it, I thought it was awesome (2x 80mm side fans, 1x 80mm rear fan) because it had a glass on the side, which I got custom etched. I was originally looking to re-use that, or at least get another case to where I could get that glass put in. However, I never got big on *lighting,* and the computer mainly stayed under my desk, so I've been looking around. You guys (and a lot of other people) praise this case, and I'm leaning toward it:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137

Oh, and would it be wise to add in two more hdd in addition to the sata? I have an 80 and a 250, both IDE. It wouldn't conflict with the SATA, or merely by having three hdd, would it?


So basically, in addition to the above questions, is there anything I can/should add? Thanks!

Current parts for the build are listed below:

$130 - Intel Core 2 Duo E4400 Allendale 2.0GHz
$90 - eVGA 256-P2-N615 Geforce 7600GT 256MB
$70 - G.Skill 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-800 F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ
$70 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200RPM SATA300 16MB Cache
$50 - XClio Goodpower 500W ATX 500W

Thanks!

William
 
You won't find an overclock-friendly P35 board with firewire under $130. If you don't need RAID, the Asus P5K fits your needs:

$135 - Asus P5K LGA 775 Intel P35 Express

If you want it within your ~$100 range, you'll have to drop down to the 650i chipset, which is still a good chipset, but runs hotter. There's a huge thread on the MSN P6N SLI-FI in the mobo subforum... check it out:

$107 - MSI P6N SLI-FI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ($10MIR)

The RC-690 is a very nice case. If you want something cheaper, the Centurion 532/534 or Elite 330 are good choices.

There's only one IDE controller on the P35 board, and if the optical drive you're planning on using is IDE, its not a good idea to put both a HDD and optical drive on the same channel -- it slows things down. The P6N, however, has two IDE channels, so you can fit those two extra IDE drives and an IDE optical drive.

If you can find some significantly cheaper DDR2-667 sticks, go for them, as thats all you'll need with an E4400:

Formulas for Intel platform @ 1:1 settings:
(CPU Multiplier) x [Base FSB speed] = CPU Clock speed
2 x [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed
4 x [Base FSB speed] = Effective FSB speed

On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is useless. Keep it linked at 1:1. Here's some possible clock speeds and the RAM speed:

E4400: 10 × 200 = 2.0Ghz, DDR2-400 << STOCK speeds
E4400: 10 × 266 = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-533 << Easy OC
E4400: 10 × 300 = 3.0Ghz, DDR2-600 << Good OC
E4400: 10 × 333 = 3.3Ghz, DDR2-667 << Great OC, near max on good air

I found these, but they'll only save you $10... personally, I'd stick with the G.Skills unless you're were on an extremely tight budget:
$60 - A-DATA 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-667 ADQPE1A16K

To hit 3Ghz or higher, you'll need a 3rd party cooler:
$16 - Cooler Master RR-CCH-L9U1-GP 92mm Hyper TX2 ($15MIR) ($30 - $14 Promo: EMC920ACCE02)
$35 - Scythe SCNJ-1100P 120mm CPU HSF
 
I have to say that was a pretty informative post - thanks a bunch.

Edit: I've never used RAID, and I don't think it's something I need, so I'm assuming no :)

As for running the different IDE channels, and it slowing things down, how significant is the slow-down. I'm going to be using the SATA hdd for the os (going for a dual boot linux/windows), and the 250 for a backup. The 80 I can leave out (I'm already using a wd 500gig external too), or put in an external enclosure if I get desperate.

So, what I'm asking...is the slowdown enough to merit getting the hotter board? Personally, I don't mind spending the extra $30 if it means a decent improvement in quality (Plus, I don't like things getting too hot...)

As for the ram, it doesn't appear there is a large difference in price, and I'm not on a *tight* budget (I'm getting 1600 back from my lightning-struck pc), I just didn't want to spend a lot of money on a computer I'm not going to be using for high-end stuff.

For the cpu fan/heatsink, I've never put in an aftermarket. The old opteron 146 I had, never ran hot at all, even mildly overclocked. So, I don't know what I need in that area - whatever you advise, I will go with.

The case - should I order different fans than what come with it, or leave those in there? I know the old case I owned had pretty shoddy fans, and I replaced them with some semi-cheap ones, and it made a significant difference.

Oh, and thanks a bunch for the formula references. Is there anything else you'd wish to add? I've really enjoyed the "learning experience." ^^

Edit: Oh, and is 64-bit windows worth getting over the 32-bit (I've heard it affects the dual/quad cores)? I can get a student copy for ~30 dollars, if it's worth it.
 
I've noticed that Vista 64bit is noticeably faster than 32bit doing basic things like opening Firefox... which is rather odd, as Firefox is a 32bit app.

Also if you think you might get another 2GB RAM at any point you'll need to run a 64 bit OS to make use of all of it.

Try with the fans in the case first, and if they don't cut it pick up a few $3-4 Yate Loon 120mms.

Scythe Ninja Plus cooler enginurd linked above would be great, or the Coolermaster cooler if you don't want to spend that much.

Pretty big performance hit with IDE HDDs and optical drives on the same channel. Not worth doing in my opinion. Since you have many IDE drives and aren't willing to replace them you should probably get the board with 2 IDE channels.
 
silent-circuit said:
I've noticed that Vista 64bit is noticeably faster than 32bit doing basic things like opening Firefox... which is rather odd, as Firefox is a 32bit app.

Pretty big performance hit with IDE HDDs and optical drives on the same channel. Not worth doing in my opinion. Since you have many IDE drives and aren't willing to replace them you should probably get the board with 2 IDE channels.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to run vista yet, sorry for the misunderstanding. I was referring to the XP edition. I'm still waiting for a while before I decide to test vista.

I am trying to figure out the statistics to this "performance hit" on the 250 ide + plextor (my dvdrw drive). The 250 is for storage only, I really don't run anything off it. Well, I use winamp for music through it...that's it - and maybe the occasional movie, but will it be noticeable for these trivial tasks? That's kind of what I'm after.

Thanks.
 
xazraelx said:
I'm not going to run vista yet, sorry for the misunderstanding. I was referring to the XP edition. I'm still waiting for a while before I decide to test vista.

I am trying to figure out the statistics to this "performance hit" on the 250 ide + plextor (my dvdrw drive). The 250 is for storage only, I really don't run anything off it. Well, I use winamp for music through it...that's it - and maybe the occasional movie, but will it be noticeable for these trivial tasks? That's kind of what I'm after.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Wiki article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Drive_Electronics#Two_devices_on_one_cable_-_speed_impact
 
What was the point of posting those articles?

Trying to show how good the E6750 is? If you check his budget, you can see that he can't go with the E6750 or the X2 6400.
 
All righty then. My bad. Read too much into it. But next time, you may want to add a line or two beforehand to put things in the proper perspective.
 
xazraelx said:
Thank you - since I rarely ever use my plextor, I believe that one IDE will be fine, if I understood that article correctly.
Click to expand...

Just don't use both devices at the same time (don't burn data from the ide drive using the ide burner).

The CM TX2 is really all you need. The Scythe Ninja Plus Rev.B cools better and is quieter at full speed (since it has a larger fan). For an E4400, either will suffice... it just depends if you want a really quiet cooler, or a cheap but good one.

Don't bother with XP-64. If you want 64-bit, go with Vista, which has come a long ways since January, from what I've been hearing. Many people I know love it (granted you have good enough hardware), and these are tech savvy people, lol.
 
I just bought that samsung drive with a free SD card (not like i need the SD card, but hey, it was $2~!!; bastids charged to ship it... and wuttaya'kno, it came all the way from tennessee, lol)... got the drive yesterday, but havent had a chance to test it out. I hope its quiet... cuz thats the reason I bought it, lol.

When you're ready to buy, give the deal sites a browse, in case you can cash in on a deal.

Danny Bui said:
All righty then. My bad. Read too much into it. But next time, you may want to add a line or two beforehand to put things in the proper perspective.
Click to expand...

What?! you couldn't read his mind!?!?!? :rolleyes:
 
enginurd said:
I just bought that samsung drive with a free SD card (not like i need the SD card, but hey, it was $2~!!; bastids charged to ship it... and wuttaya'kno, it came all the way from tennessee, lol)... got the drive yesterday, but havent had a chance to test it out. I hope its quiet... cuz thats the reason I bought it, lol.

When you're ready to buy, give the deal sites a browse, in case you can cash in on a deal.



What?! you couldn't read his mind!?!?!? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

In the past, I've just bought everything from newegg. What deal sites are you referring to? Or is there a thread here I need to look at about them ^^.

Thanks :)
 
deal sites... fatwallet.com, slickdeals.com, techbargains.com, bensbargains.net, and our very own [H]ot deals subforum, which has a newegg sticky for current deals at the egg. The list in Danny's link is more comprehensive.
 
Quick question because of the video card.

This: 7600GT http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814130062

Or this: 8600GT http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814130085

There is a $15 price difference. As of now, I don't need DX10 - and I'm not aware of anything in the future that I will need DX10 for (Because I believe SC2 will still be based off DX9, but there is not confirmation on this).

Thanks - and I think I'm just going to slowly order the pieces whenever I see something go on sale ^^ Time isn't a huge issue, so why not - thanks for the heads up on the deal sites.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top