new computer build, see any issues with selection?

[savager1]

Hello,

So, the time has finally come for me to build a new PC. Plus I thought it would be wise to mention that I have been out of the building game for a little while. (however I do know my way around a computer).

This is mainly going to be a gaming rig, along with all the usual stuff...watching movies on PC, browsing, office work

I don't plan on doing overclocking (well not at the moment anyways)

budget = $2000-ish AUD (1,790.20USD) [already have Samsung 22" monitor and mouse]

OS = PCLinuxOS (main OS) & Windows XP (maybe Vista later on)

case = Coolermaster RC690 Black Midi-Tower Case (other cases I was thinking about were Silverstone TJ09 or Coolermaster Stacker 832. Main thing I want from a case is good ventilation and with RC690 which is SLI certified it should have good airflow. It can also host quite a few fans)

motherboard = Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R (I would like to have RAID as an option, not going SLI and as mentioned above perhaps some overclocking later on down the track)

cpu = Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 2.4Ghz Processor (I understand that there aren't many applications that fully utilize these CPU's, however my main reason for getting this CPU is the fact that it has 2x 4mb cache...not sure if thats a good enough reason)

ram = Corsair Twin2X 2048MB DDR2 XMS2-6400C4 RAM (2GB should be enough?)

video card = 8800GT of course (If I can get one...also, can someone recommend a brand such as Inno3d, XFX, E-VGA etc?)

storage = not sure whether I should go: 1x 74GB 10,000rpm (OS / games) & 1x 500GB 7200.10 SATA 16/32Mb cache (Storage) OR 2x 500GB 7200.10 SATA's in RAID0?

psu = a modular good brand name 750w PSU (suggestions?)

sound card = Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio PCI-Express x1 (ok choice? I only need to hear mp3's and game sounds. Is there a real benefit to using a sound card if on-board is available?)

keyboard = Logitech G15

optical = Asus DRW-1814BLT Lightscribe Black 16x DVD+/-R, 8x Dual Layer+R SATA Drive

network = on-board should be ok?

I realize that with Christmas coming up that some of the hardware manufacturers may reduce price of components etc, so would it be worth holding out for a little bit longer?

All suggestions and advice are very appreciated.

edit:
Also, I left of my original post...cooling...

The Coolermaster RC690 comes with 2 fans AFAIK
My thought was to add quite a few fans in there so there is enough ventilation. So, I am thinking of getting the following:

2x 120mm fans - top
1x 120mm fan - bottom
2x 120mm fans - left

The fans that I thought would work quite well would be these ones?

Coolermaster 120mm Blue-LED case fan twin pack, 1200RPM, w/3-pin power x3

That's a total of 7x case fans (2 included and 3 twin packs)

Also, when it comes to CPU fans I was thinking about either:

Zalman CNPS9700 NT large Copper cooler w/9cm fan, for P4 Skt478/775

OR

Zalman CNPS9500LED large Copper cooler w/9cm fan, for P4 Skt478/775

 

[engiNURD]

Ditch the DDR3 version of the board and go with the P35-DS3R instead. By the time DDR3 is worth buying, it will be time for a new board/cpu.

New quadcores are coming out in Q1'08 that have even larger cache sizes. What do you do that benefits from the larger cache? Here, play with this: http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=872&model2=871&chart=418

2GB is fine. You won't notice a difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, its still negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency.

Raptors aren't worth their price anymore, IMO...

Avg Transfer Rate, Access Time: HDD info, Price
78MB/s, 08.2ms: WD Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB, $160AR
72MB/s, 15.4ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB, $65
65MB/s, 13.7ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS 320GB, $80
65MB/s, 13.2ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3300620AS 300GB, $60
63MB/s, 12.9ms: WD Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB, $90
52MB/s, 14.0ms: WD Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB, $70
112MB/s, 13.2ms: RAID0 'cuda's, 600GB total, $120 (ICH9R on P35-DS3R)

As you can see, the 'cuda is twice the size and half the cost, for nearly the same performance. Stick them in RAID0, and you've got an even more cost effective solution. Though, the seek time of the Raptor can't be beat. If you have cash to burn, do so on a Raptor if you really want it. Otherwise, there are better cost effective solutions depending on your needs.

You don't need a 750W PSU. Go with the Corsair 520W or 620W. The 520W is more than enough for your system. Here are more PSU Suggestions:
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showpost.php?p=1590883&postcount=193
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1460
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103
PSU FAQ: http://www.jonnyguru.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1036

Try on-board first... its a lot better now than it used to be. If you still don't like it, pickup a soundcard afterwards.

Wait if you can, buy when you can no longer wait.

 

[savager1]

wow, thanks for the quick response and great information

Ditch the DDR3 version of the board and go with the P35-DS3R instead. By the time DDR3 is worth buying, it will be time for a new board/cpu.

Ah ok, it appears that that is the only real difference between p35 and p35c...yeah won't be getting DDR3 any time soon.

New quadcores are coming out in Q1'08 that have even larger cache sizes. What do you do that benefits from the larger cache? Here, play with this: http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=872&model2=871&chart=418

um, not sure hehe. Just the thought of having as much cache as possible would be a good thing. I'm checking the link now

2GB is fine. You won't notice a difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, its still negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency.

OK, cool I have checked a pc shop online in AU and I guess you are referring to this:

Instead of getting:
Corsair Twin2X 2048MB 240-pin DDR2 XMS2-6400 Twin Pack (2x 1024mb sticks) w/heat spreader, 4-4-4-12 $154.00AUD

I could save a bit of cash and get:
Corsair Twin2X 2048MB 240-pin DDR2 XMS2-6400 Twin Pack (2x 1024mb sticks) w/heat spreader 5-5-5-12 $126.50AUD

Raptors aren't worth their price anymore, IMO...

Avg Transfer Rate, Access Time: HDD info, Price
78MB/s, 08.2ms: WD Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB, $160AR
72MB/s, 15.4ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB, $65
65MB/s, 13.7ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS 320GB, $80
65MB/s, 13.2ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3300620AS 300GB, $60
63MB/s, 12.9ms: WD Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB, $90
52MB/s, 14.0ms: WD Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB, $70
112MB/s, 13.2ms: RAID0 'cuda's, 600GB total, $120 (ICH9R on P35-DS3R)

As you can see, the 'cuda is twice the size and half the cost, for nearly the same performance. Stick them in RAID0, and you've got an even more cost effective solution. Though, the seek time of the Raptor can't be beat. If you have cash to burn, do so on a Raptor if you really want it. Otherwise, there are better cost effective solutions depending on your needs.

cool, the above measurements are exactly what I was after! Would you recommend going with a RAID controller or just letting the on-baord stuff do the job?

You don't need a 750W PSU. Go with the Corsair 520W or 620W. The 520W is more than enough for your system. Here are more PSU Suggestions:
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showpost.php?p=1590883&postcount=193
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1460
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103
PSU FAQ: http://www.jonnyguru.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1036

cool, yeah wasn't sure whether I was getting a PSU that was too high or not, thanks again for the links.

Try on-board first... its a lot better now than it used to be. If you still don't like it, pickup a soundcard afterwards.

That's an easy way to work it out eh?

Wait if you can, buy when you can no longer wait.

I think I've reached that point! heh

 

[engiNURD]

A larger L2 cache doesn't add as much performance as we'd like to think it does. You'll probably see 5-10% performance increase due to the cache size. However, with the new Yorkfield chips being 45nm, that means they require less voltage. Which means they run cooler. Since they run cooler, they'll be able to ramp up the clock speeds. However, if you need a chip now, I still think you'll get good performance out of a Q6600 chip. Also, since these things OC so easily, if and when it starts to feel slow for you, you could start to OC it.

Yah, I'd put that $25AUD saved towards an aftermarket CPU HSF, like the Scythe Ninja Plus Rev.B or the Ultima90 w/ Panaflo fan.

Onboard raid controllers are ok for desktops. The benefit of a seperate controller is that it gives you the ability to transplant a raid array from one system to another. Good hardware controllers can get expensive, so don't get carried away. You could ask the storage subforum for some raid card suggestions if you like.

For my media server, I have an areca card I got from a buddy of mine. For my desktops, I just use the onboard controllers.

 

[soundguy]

where are you in AUS mate, i'm in melbourne and unless you want to have to pay postage as well as a higher cost, go to MSY (www.msy.com.au). they have shops all over the place and are extrememly cheap in most areas. also, as many of you may have noticed, i have just had a bit of a bitch fight with a couple of guys over in the cases part of the forum about the antec 900 Vs the CM 690, i don't want to start another one here, but especially since you're in AUS, IN MY OPINION the 900 is better value price/performance wise. couple that with a TT blue orb FX from MSY and you get a cpu cooler and a case for $226.
(the key words in that sentence were IN MY OPINION...)

as far as memory goes, from msy you should be able to get some DDR2 1066 (yeah its cheapo but what ya gonna do) for $45 for a 1GB stick.

 

[savager1]

hehe, yeah mate I'm in Sydney and I am getting most of this stuff from MSY, they are still the cheapest...trust me I searched high and low and cannot get a better price than they offer. Well, I was all keen for the Antec 900 and I noticed a few posts mention that the cable management is horrible. I went to a recent LAN and I checked one out, great case, but non-existent cable management didn't make it look too good. Also, with the cables all over the place perhaps the airflow is affected? (I am after opinions cause I currently own neither case and that's why I posted in a forum heh, I will draw my own conclusions in the end with the combined knowledge of the community ).

As for that RAM...hmm, I dunno if that would be allowed in my system, hehe I am under the impression that Corsair RAM would be a bit more reliable than no-name.

 

[engiNURD]

couple that with a TT blue orb FX from MSY and you get a cpu cooler and a case for $226.

There are definately better coolers out there than the blue orb, but I don't know whats available to you guys and at what prices (MSY's site is horrible... do they need some web dev work done for them or are they workin on it? lol). If these are available, I'd suggest one of them instead:

Scythe Ninja Plus Rev.B 120mm CPU HSF + Thermalright LGA775 bolt-thru kit
Tuniq Tower 120
Thermalright Ultima 90 + Panaflo Hydrowave 92mm fan FBA09A12M
Thermalright Ultra 120 + Scythe S-Flex 120mm fan SFF21D/E/F

As for that RAM...hmm, I dunno if that would be allowed in my system, hehe I am under the impression that Corsair RAM would be a bit more reliable than no-name.

There are other good RAM brands, but again, I don't know whats available to you. Corsair tends to be overpriced sometimes. Other brands to check out are OCZ, Kingston (also overpriced), Crucial, G.Skill, Mushkin, A-Data, etc... those are all I could think of for now, lol.

 

[soundguy]

yeh they probably do need some work done on their site, but its more just so you have a stable link to downoald the PDF, just get the file enginurd and you won't have to ask us...

again, not trying to start an argument but what's your opinion on the 900 Vs 690 thing enginurd?

in that case savager i would probably suggest the 2GB kit of 800 A-DATA ram which is about the same price, just slower ram...

i was hoping you were going to be in melbourne so you could go to CPL (www.cpl.net.au) because they're not as cheap as MSY, but they do have a hugeass selection of ram especially, but since your not, i have to ask: have you ever had the chasers after you, or even seen them in action?

 

[savager1]

yeh they probably do need some work done on their site, but its more just so you have a stable link to downoald the PDF, just get the file enginurd and you won't have to ask us...

hehe reckon, they probably just have a basic website up there to show the prices...but yes, it does need some work

in that case savager1 i would probably suggest the 2GB kit of 800 A-DATA ram which is about the same price, just slower ram...

I'll check it out!

i was hoping you were going to be in melbourne so you could go to CPL (www.cpl.net.au) because they're not as cheap as MSY, but they do have a hugeass selection of ram especially, but since your not, i have to ask: have you ever had the chasers after you, or even seen them in action?

I have stumbled across that site a few times, they do have a great selection. No, unfortunately I haven't had any chasers after me (you mean the TV show right? heh hell funny ... I haven't seen them in action either) To tell you the truth I have been recovering from a motorcycle accident that happened 2 years ago, so I haven't really been out of the house too much heh. Getting there now though...in final stages!

 

[soundguy]

the only consideration that might arise with ram is that on the gigabyte site they have memory support lists for the different boards, they are mostly the same, but i think its probably better to check whether or not the memory you buy is on the list:

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/MemorySupport/motherboard_memory_ga-p35-ds3p.pdf

(just so you don't have to find it, but otherwise its just on the gigabyte site when you go to the particular mobo, you can find the list)

 

[engiNURD]

Eh, I'll let you guys search and see if those coolers are available to you or not, lol.

My opinion on cases is that they're all personal preference. Go with whichever case you like and are comfortable with, price-wise.

Here's my personal opinion on the two cases:
For most people in the states, the RC-690 is a better value since its cheaper and gets the job done without being the cheapest case possible. The Antec Nine Hundred is overpriced for what you get, IMO. I've seen much better cases for the money.

The RC-690 is $40 after a $20 MIR (free shipping), yet the lowest the Nine Hundred has been was $60 after a $40 MIR (free shipping). Standard pricing for the RC-690 is $80USD w/ free shipping. The standard pricing for the Nine Hundred is $116USD w/ free shipping.

Personally, I don't consider the 900 a better case. I think both cases have good enough airflow and again, its all just personal preference. As far as build quality goes, I like the RC-690 better, especially for the price. The Nine Hundred felt cheap to me. Then again, when I was looking at it, I was comparing it to the CM Stacker TC01, lol. I went with the Stacker since it was only $85 in-store, while the 900 was $130 in-store. I like the revised P180B better than the 900 -- it feels more solid and therefore worth its pricetag ($130USD). I also don't care much for Antec Tri-Cool fans. I like the Yate Loons better since they're quieter and push more air. Also, they're only $3.50USD each, so they're cheap enough to replace any and all stock fans; So, I don't consider any included fans into the price of the case... since I usually replace them all anyhow.

Again, thats all my personal opinion/preference. Your situation, opinion, and preference may very well be different than mine. If you think the 900 is a better value, thats fine.

As for RAM, theres no way any mobo manufacturer will be able to list all available RAM thats compatible with the boards. Stick with any major manufacturer and you should be fine.

 

[soundguy]

yeh, i agree about the 900 Vs 690 subject, and i have always wanted to get yate loon's to replace the fans in my 900, but i have never got around to it... as always, i am glad that someone else sorta agrees with me about the 900 becuase although the argument has died down, people keep posting telling me that yate loons are $4 and stuff USD and don;t seem to realise that i am not working in USD but AUD instead...

i think i like the blue orb becasue at the mo i think it is the best cooler that i can get without ordering from overseas...

i am also very glad enginurd that you have reinforced that you live in the states and work with USD instead of telling me that everywhere you look the ideas that the US market has is the only idea and that anything other than that is wrong as well as telling me that things are less than i say they are because they seem to ignore the fact that i almost always remind them that i work in AUD...

 

[savager1]

OK, so gathering some information from the previous posts, I have narrowed specs down to the following:

This is mainly going to be a gaming rig, along with all the usual stuff...watching movies on PC, browsing, office work

I don't plan on doing overclocking (well not at the moment anyways)

budget = $2000-ish AUD (1,790.20USD) [already have Samsung 22" monitor and mouse]

OS = PCLinuxOS (main OS) & Windows XP (maybe Vista later on)

case = Still not 100% about the case...I think it's between Coolermaster RC690 Black Midi-Tower Case & Antec p182

motherboard = Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R

cpu = Intel Core2 Duo E6750 2.66Ghz (Conroe 1333mhz) Processor, Dual core LGA775 65w 4mb cache

ram = Corsair-Performance 2GB (2x1024) 800MHz XMS2 TWINX2 MATCHED (TWIN2X2048-6400) 5-5-5-15

video card = EVGA KO Video Card PCI-e (nV) 8800GT 512MB

storage =

2x 3.5" HDD SATA-300 320GB 16MB Seagate SV35 (ST3320620SV) (OS / games) <<<--- (in RAID0 configuration - is this hard to setup? just onboard job..I'm guessing through BIOS?)​

1x 3.5" HDD SATA-300 500GB 32MB Seagate (ST3500320AS) 7200.11 (storage)​

psu = Corsair HX-620 620W

keyboard = Logitech G15

optical = Asus DRW-1814BLT Lightscribe Black 16x DVD+/-R, 8x Dual Layer+R SATA Drive

fans = Case Fan 120mmx2 CoolerMaster Blue LED Silent 120 SI3 ($20 for twin pack 19 dBA - 39CFM) OR Vantec "STEALTH" 12CM Case Fan ($30AUD each 28 dBA - 53CFM)

cpu HSF = CPU Cooler Scythe "NINJA PLUS Rev.B" 6Heat Pipes (for all of CPU) <<<--- this should fit into most cases right?

 

[engiNURD]

wow those vantecs are pricey. go with the cheaper fans, lol... they're just for the case anyhow.

if the p180 is cheaper than the p182, go for that instead.

raid0 is easy to setup, and only takes a few minutes. i typically have that same hdd setup. to minimize downtime if the raid array fails, i keep an image of the drive on a small os partition of my storage drives. this serves as a live replacement of the raid array if and when the raid array fails. i also have an image on my external drive, which i use to restore my os onto the new raid array. i guess my point is: make sure you have a good backup solution.

yes, the ninja will fit into any of the cases that have been mentioned in this thread. it is a bit more difficult to install than the other ones, though. the ultima90 is the easiest to install.

 

[savager1]

i guess my point is: make sure you have a good backup solution.

I know it's a bit off-topic, however I am trying to steer clear of Windows XP (I still dual boot, but hardly ever log into Windows) and in PCLinuxOS (which might I add is the best Linux distro I have tried where everything works out of the box...and I mean everything) there is a real neat built-in backup tool called 'remasterme' (yes, you just type that and that's it!) and it essentially takes a snapshot of your pc in its current state and creates an .iso image that you can burn to dvd. Then you can have all your current setup such as games, emails, files etc including the operating system all on the DVD. So, if your pc's file system ever gets damaged or such you can just throw your current LiveCD into the drive and in a matter of minutes you will be up and running just like you hadn't damaged your file system. It's quite amazing.

Sorry, to go off-topic, however I wish I never had to buy Microsoft OS's etc, I would gladly and I will (only been using it for about 2 months now...still evaluating it) donate some money to PCLinuxOS. There is not a day that goes past where PCLinuxOS doesn't surprise me. For example on my to-do list I have to make some .swf files to direct a family friend through their first ebay sale...and lo and behold the software (called 'wink') was quickly accessible through synaptic software database. Also, when you upgrade your system it upgrades all your installed software automatically if there are any updates. (I don't have to buy the latest software from another vendor's website)

...Oh and have I mentioned that it's free

BTW: Thanks heaps for all who answered my post I appreciate it!

 

[Dangman]

And thank you for telling me about PC Linux OS's built-in backup solution. Did not know it had that.

 

[savager1]

And thank you for telling me about PC Linux OS's built-in backup solution. Did not know it had that.

typical trait of the linux community, we try to help out when we can.

Just more on the tool though, you may have to enter some options when issuing the command if you are backing up more than 4GB. All I did was install PCLinuxOS and then used 'remasterme' not long after my install, so it didn't have too many games on there etc. So, if you are trying to 'remasterme' for say 10GB data you may require some further options along with the standard command. (for example you can exclude certain directories such as TF2 which takes up like 7GB).

 

[savager1]

Hello again,

OK, so I have almost built this PC and I have to say I cannot believe how much the building game has changed since my last build. I would just like some opinions as to whether I have cabled the PC up correctly or not, considering it's been quite a while since building my last PC. (I'm hoping this PC will work and not go up in smoke!)

So, I have a few questions: (images are here)

1/ In the first image I would just like to know of any ways I can minimize the yellow SATA cable mess that you see (they are just resting there at the moment). Also, what can be done to clean up the HD Audio, USB and LED cables that are circled. (The build is pretty much complete, except waiting for video card, so I am still just making things neat)

2/ In the second image I would like to confirm whether this cable from the HX620w power supply is the correct one to power the case fans of the Antec p182 (the red and black case fan connections were 4-pin, whereas the 'fan only' cable included [but not shown] with the PSU has two connectors but each connector only has two pins?)

3/ In the third image I just wanted to confirm that it was ok to use all three connectors on the one power cable leading back to the PSU (to me it's logical that it would be OK, because otherwise they wouldn't have three connectors there in the first place.)

4/ In image four, I would like to know, this is (I'm guessing) the 8-pin Power connector. I cannot find anywhere on my motherboard to use this connector, so is it safe to assume it is not used on my motherboard? (Gigabyte P35-DS3R)

 

[Dangman]

Before I start, you really should check out this gallery thread dedicated totally to the P180/P180B/P182 cases. You might pick a few ideas/tips:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1186892

1) Move those hard drives to the bottom hard drive bay. It'll keep those SATA cables and hard drives from impeding airflow to the video card. It should also help clean up the cables.

Oh and move the bulk of the USB and LED cables into the external 3.5" bay. THats that the part that has Antec Design labled on the side. As for the audio cable, look around in the thread I linked to above for info on how to hide that.

2) Yes that cable is the correct one.

3) Well you called it. Yes it is ok.

4)That is the 8Pin power connected. And yes it is safe to assume that it is not used on your mobo. Just make sure to connect that 4-Pin power cable!

 

[savager1]

Thanks heaps for the reply Danny Bui. I've seen you on this forum for quite some time helping people out. Thanks man, you're a legend!

How did your remasterme'ing go?

 

[Dangman]

Thanks heaps for the reply Danny Bui. I've seen you on this forum for quite some time helping people out. Thanks man, you're a legend!

How did your remasterme'ing go?

Actually haven't had the time to try out PCLinuxOS. Been spending the last week or so fixing up my Ubuntu Linux server.

And no I am not a legend or anything. Just a slightly isommniactic and very prolific poster.