New Computer - 3000 euro - Need help

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BladeZ

n00b
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
19
Hardware:
Case: Coolermaster Stacker (199,00)
Power: Silverstone Strider 850 (189,00)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad (234,00)
Motherboard: Asus Maximus Formula (S775, DDR2, IX38) (234,95)
Graphics: Asus EAH3870 X2 1GB (430,00)
RAM: Transcend Ram 2GB Kit DDR2 1200MHz AxeRAM * x2 * (250,00)
Hard Disk: Western Digital 150 GB Raptor-X (10000rpm, 16MB, SATA) (179,00)
DVD Writer: Samsung DVDRW + / - Ls SH-S203P R B+W (Sata) (39,00)
Monitor: Samsung TFT 24" SM244T (899,00)

Price: 2653,95 euros

Radiator: ALPHACOOL NEXXXOS XTREME III REV2 (43,99
Tank: ALPHACOOL CAPE COOLPLEX PRO 10 EXTERNAL (28,00)
CPU Block: Universal crusader water cooling block Transparent (57,12)
Pump: Laing Αντλία D5-Pump 12V D5-Vario 1/2 (98,77)

I want a computer that will be playing new generation games on full details with very high fps. I also want my computer to be able to photoedit and convert media quickly.

- Do you believe i should take Asus Striker 2 Formula, 1066mhz 5-5-5-14 and 8800 GTS 512 (x2 SLI) instead of the parts above? What would produce more fps and a good gaming at 1920x1200?
- Should i choose this S-PVA 24" monitor or choose a TN 22" instead for more fps?
- Will crossfireX exist in the future? And will it require cfX support from games or cf support is enough to run 4 cores?

Feel free to post your suggestions!

Thanks in advance,
BladeZ
 
If you want some AA at 1920x1200 your gonna need a 8800GTX.

Get a good 2x1GB DDR2 800 4-4-4-12 kit. Maybe 2x2GB and a 64bit os if you want the extra ram, useless in games - good for video editing or photoshop. Super fast ram is useless, you want your ram running 1:1 with your proc, 400 cpu bus = 800 ram, 425=850, etc. Any good ram kit should OC to 1000 if you need to, but with a Q6600 400x9=3.6GHz, 450x9=4.0GHz. 500x9=4.5GHz/500x8=4GHz.

Buy another raptor and raid them. Do you need the raptor X (it has the window right?), just buy the regular 150GB one, the extra bucks isn't worth for having a window on your drive you won't even be able to see...

Other then that, I guess it's not too bad.
 
o wow. gtx should not even be considered anymore with the 8800gt and 8800gts that performs nearly as good at such a lower price.

i personally dont see why ppl should get raptor now. the performance gap isnt like what it used to be like so i find raptors waste of money,

the monitor is your choice really. bigger u sacrifice fps. but doesnt matter if u have good video card
 
BladeZ said:
1 - Do you believe i should take (a) Asus Striker 2 Formula, (b) 1066mhz 5-5-5-14 and (c) 8800 GTS 512 (x2 SLI) instead of the parts above?
(d) What would produce more fps and a good gaming at 1920x1200?
2 - Should i choose this S-PVA 24" monitor or choose a TN 22" instead for more fps?
3 - (a) Will crossfireX exist in the future? (b) And will it require cfX support from games or cf support is enough to run 4 cores?
Click to expand...

1a) striker2? no
1b) 1066 5-5-5-14? no
1c) SLI GTS 512MB? for a 24" monitor, yes -- anything lower, no.
1d) More GPU power

2) depends... do you hold gaming at a higher priority than image quality?

3a) do you have a crystal ball i can borrow? i don't see why it wouldn't exist.
3b) dunno

What CPU are you getting? Q6600?

/*------------- <cut n paste> -------------*/
Formulas for Intel platform @ 1:1 settings: (base FSB speed is SDR, or single data rate)
c x [Base FSB speed] = CPU speed (c = CPU Multiplier)
2 x [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed (DDR: double data rate)
4 x [Base FSB speed] = FSB speed (QDR: quad data rate; Effective FSB speed)

On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is, for the most part, useless, so don't bother trying to do so. If the BIOS does it for you, just let it. All you need is a 1:1 config, though. Here's some possible clock speeds (as always with OC'ing, your results will vary):

Q6600: 9 × 266 = 2.4Ghz, DDR2-533 << STOCK speeds
Q6600: 9 × 333 = 3.0Ghz, DDR2-667 << Nice OC
Q6600: 9 × 378 = 3.4Ghz, DDR2-756 << Good OC, near max for B3 stepping
Q6600: 9 × 400 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-800 << Great OC, near max for G0 stepping

You won't notice the difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, its negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency.
/*------------- </cut n paste> -------------*/
 
colinstu said:
Get a good 2x1GB DDR2 800 4-4-4-12 kit. Maybe 2x2GB and a 64bit os if you want the extra ram, useless in games - good for video editing or photoshop. Super fast ram is useless, you want your ram running 1:1 with your proc, 400 cpu bus = 800 ram, 425=850, etc. Any good ram kit should OC to 1000 if you need to, but with a Q6600 400x9=3.6GHz, 450x9=4.0GHz. 500x9=4.5GHz/500x8=4GHz.

Buy another raptor and raid them. Do you need the raptor X (it has the window right?), just buy the regular 150GB one, the extra bucks isn't worth for having a window on your drive you won't even be able to see...

Other then that, I guess it's not too bad.
Click to expand...

1) From what i understand, RAM frequency does matter on the CPU overclock? So the higher CPU speed the higher RAM freq needed?
2) Isn't raptor-x the fastest HD? Or there is no big difference?
3) Do you believe would 3870X2 handle good gaming @ 1920x1200 on full details/settings? Or go for SLI x2 8800 GTS 512 and maybe put a 3rd one in a year?
4) Is 1200mhz RAM needed? Or i won't see any difference?

What i want is good gaming & no delays etc on programs open and actions
 
BladeZ said:
1) From what i understand, RAM frequency does matter on the CPU overclock? So the higher CPU speed the higher RAM freq needed?
2) Isn't raptor-x the fastest HD? Or there is no big difference?
3) Do you believe would 3870X2 handle good gaming @ 1920x1200 on full details/settings? Or go for SLI x2 8800 GTS 512 and maybe put a 3rd one in a year?
4) Is 1200mhz RAM needed? Or i won't see any difference?

What i want is good gaming & no delays etc on programs open and actions
Click to expand...

1) Yes, ram does matter when it comes to OCing, but I'm sorry, you don't need 1200/1066 speed ram. 1) You won't be able to OC the proc that high and 2) Even if you could, good DDR2 800 ram should OC up to 1000 if ya needed it - but you won't, guarantee ya.

2) Raptor X is simplky a Raptor with a window on the top of it. Over here in the US it's like 10-20$ more to get the X. Unless you REALLY want to see your harddrive seek for things on the disk. No performance difference.

3)The 3870X2 performed like the 8800GTX for the most part. It did from what I saw a little bit better in Source engine games, but I'd personally wait for the 9800GTX/9800GX2/9800GT to be released. The 8800GTX is still better for big resolitions, the 8800GTS 512 I got in my sig can do Crysis all high, no aa, at 1920x1200 and get 30fps most of the time. If I wanted atleast 2x aa, with the GTX having a 384 bit bus and 768mb ram, I'm sure I could actually be able too. And if you wanted to sli, you'd need to buy a nforce 780i board. p35/x38 etc only do crossfire.

4) this has been answered by me, by someone else, and by me again...
 
1) What motherboard would you suggest me for SLI? I've heard maximus formula is one of the best but it's CF, does it worth to go cf for the mobo or?
2) How many fps are needed for a good gaming? I heard eye can only notice 15 to 30 fps per second, anymore than 30 won't make difference, is that true?
3) Is 6ms response time okay for a S-PVa gaming/photo editing screen? Or i should go to a screen with 2ms and TN panel?
 
BladeZ said:
1) What motherboard would you suggest me for SLI? I've heard maximus formula is one of the best but it's CF, does it worth to go cf for the mobo or?
2) How many fps are needed for a good gaming? I heard eye can only notice 15 to 30 fps per second, anymore than 30 won't make difference, is that true?
3) Is 6ms response time okay for a S-PVa gaming/photo editing screen? Or i should go to a screen with 2ms and TN panel?
Click to expand...

1) For SLI, any mobo based on the 780i chipset will do. Maybe the 750i. As for Crossfire, any X38 mobo should be fine.
2) Depends on the game and player. Many people demand at least 60FPS from their games while others are content with just 20FPS. And then there are some games that require a high level of FPS in order for good gaming while others, typically RTS games, don't require anything more than 20 to 30FPS. So it depends. And the eye can only notice a max of 60FPS I believe.
3) No idea.
 
BladeZ said:
1) What motherboard would you suggest me for SLI? I've heard maximus formula is one of the best but it's CF, does it worth to go cf for the mobo or?
2) How many fps are needed for a good gaming? I heard eye can only notice 15 to 30 fps per second, anymore than 30 won't make difference, is that true?
3) Is 6ms response time okay for a S-PVa gaming/photo editing screen? Or i should go to a screen with 2ms and TN panel?
Click to expand...

1) 780i board, maybe 750i, but since you got money to burn, get the 780i :D I'd go with the evga board.
2) There was a program out there that showed one side of a rotating model at 30fps, and another at 60fps, I noticed the 60 one moved like butter more, and plus that is highest LCD monitors can do without the screen tearing. I'd say the lowest fps whith out it looking choppy is 15-20fps, but 60 and 30 fps is what to shoot for. Consoles like the xbox 360 and PS3 are capped at 30fps.
3) 6ms isn't too bad, as long as you don't get a TN panel, your pretty much good. Check out the monitors section in the forum, there is a sticky that explains all the types of panels, etc.
 
1) colistun i see you're using 24 inches monitor and a 8800 GTS 512, are you okay with it?
2) Would 3870X2 handle a good gaming @ 24"? Or better use 2 8800 GTS?
3) Using sli means worse motherboard according to some striker 2 formula reviews
 
BladeZ said:
1) colistun i see you're using 24 inches monitor and a 8800 GTS 512, are you okay with it?
2) Would 3870X2 handle a good gaming @ 24"? Or better use 2 8800 GTS?
3) Using sli means worse motherboard according to some striker 2 formula reviews
Click to expand...

1) Crysis = 30fps (1920x1200 res, no AA, all high settings) with 2x aa it becomes unplayable. I would seriously wait for the 9800GTX/9800GT/9800GX2.
Team Fortress 2 = everything maxed out (AA, MS, etc), 1920x1200. 60fps all the time
WoW= maxed, 60fps
COD4= maxed, too much action and I can't tell the fps XD. 30-60fps
I'm okay with it, but when the new cards come out, I'm gonna step-up ASAP (thanks evga).

2) I'd think so, but which one is better? Tough call, do it the [H] way and buy both XD.

3) SLI shouldn't make the motherboard suck more? If your gonna sli, buy the 780i board from evga. I haven't heard any complaints about 780i boards about OCing and SLI, they sound pretty solid.
 
First set of questions...
1) The FSB speed determines the RAM speed AND the CPU speed, so read the chart I posted above.

2) The difference is minimal these days. The Raptor is the fastest seeking single, non-scsi drive. If you want faster transfer speed, there are better solutions than a raptor. Also, a new raptor should be out this summer.

Avg Transfer Rate, Access Time: HDD info, Price I paid (except for raptor - twas a gift)
**note, these figures come from HDTune, a synthetic benchmark for HDDs.

112MB/s, 13.2ms: RAID0 'cuda's, 600GB total, $120 (ICH9R on P35-DS3R)
78MB/s, 08.2ms: WD Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB, $160
76MB/s, 13.7ms: WD Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB, $150
72MB/s, 15.4ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB, $65
68MB/s, 13.3ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS 320GB, $60
65MB/s, 13.7ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS 320GB, $80
65MB/s, 13.2ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3300620AS 300GB, $60
63MB/s, 13.4ms: WD Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB, $100
62MB/s, 15.3ms: Samsung HD501LJ 500GB, $105
52MB/s, 14.0ms: WD Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB, $70

As you can see, the 'cuda is twice the size and half the cost, for nearly the same avg transfer rate as the Raptor. Stick them in RAID0, and you've got an even more cost effective solution. Though, the seek time of the Raptor can't be beat. If you have cash to burn, do so on a Raptor if you really want it. Otherwise, there are better cost effective solutions depending on your needs these days.
Click to expand...

BTW, the newly revised WD3200AAKS, with a single 320GB platter, sustains a much higher transfer rate than a current 150GB raptor.

3) if you want to stick with a single card solution, the HD3870X2 is the best bang for buck when going for high resolution gaming cards.


Second set of questions...
1) eVGA nForce 780i SLI. The good thing about CF is that Intel makes CF chipsets, so you know they're more reliable/stable than nForce chipsets. However, most people prefer SLI over Crossfire/X.

2) While the human eye can only detect up to 60fps, first person shooter games tend to "feel" more smooth at higher frames per second.

3) 6ms is great for a pva panel, imo. Stick with the pva panel if you hold image quality at a higher priority than gaming. If your main priority is game performance, go with a much cheaper TN panel.


Third set of questions...
1) I've got an 8800GT on a 37" screen, and it performs ok. Though, as Danny mentioned, it really all depends on you.

2) 2x 8800GTS 512MB (G92) cards in SLI would outperform an HD3870X2, but costs significantly more and will need an nForce chipset board.

3) Yes, the nForce chipset isn't as reliable as its intel counterparts. While it may take some time and tweaking to get it stable, they're still good boards. nForce chipsets run hotter than the P35/X38 chipsets, so they typically can't OC as well as the intel chipsets.
 
enginurd said:
1) I've got an 8800GT on a 37" screen, and it performs ok. Though, as Danny mentioned, it really all depends on you.

2) 2x 8800GTS 512MB (G92) cards in SLI would outperform an HD3870X2, but costs significantly more and will need an nForce chipset board.

3) Yes, the nForce chipset isn't as reliable as its intel counterparts. While it may take some time and tweaking to get it stable, they're still good boards. nForce chipsets run hotter than the P35/X38 chipsets, so they typically can't OC as well as the intel chipsets.
Click to expand...

1) What res you running at?...

3) Are you talking about 680i?
 
Well i believe gaming/photo editing/video converting/video watching is in the same priority, i believe 24" S-PVA 6ms response time monitor would be fine, i don't think a 2ms TN panel would make any noticeable difference on the ghosting, but it would really produce way crappier colours and blacks. Am i wrong?

Should i choose 3870X2 with maximus formula and get another one in a year to keep FPS high? Or i will be having problem nowdays playing games @ 1920x1200?

If i choose SLI way, should i choose striker 2? Any suggestions on nforce mobos?
 
Westinghouse 37" is 1080p, so I'm running at 1920x1080.

I was talking about nForce 600i and 700i series boards. Intel P35 and X38 are more reliable/stable, run cooler, and can therefore OC better.

BladeZ said:
Well i believe gaming/photo editing/video converting/video watching is in the same priority, i believe 24" S-PVA 6ms response time monitor would be fine, i don't think a 2ms TN panel would make any noticeable difference on the ghosting, but it would really produce way crappier colours and blacks. Am i wrong?

Should i choose 3870X2 with maximus formula and get another one in a year to keep FPS high? Or i will be having problem nowdays playing games @ 1920x1200?

If i choose SLI way, should i choose striker 2? Any suggestions on nforce mobos?
Click to expand...

You're right about the monitor.

Getting a second card "later" is not usually a good plan. There should be a new card out by then that you could get instead, that would outperform your "current" card in SLI. Though, with a 24", its a good idea to keep SLI or Crossfire as an immediate option -- in other words, if one card isn't good enough right now, buy another one right now -- don't wait a year. For Crysis and newer games, you'd be best served with G92 GTS' in SLI over a single HD3870X2.

I'd go with the eVGA board instead of the Striker2.
 
Unfortunatelly in Greece, the only nforce 780 chipset motherboards i can buy are Striker 2 P5N-T deluxe.

Striker 2 = 280 euro
P5N-T = 220 euro
Maximums Formula = 230 euro

Should i really choose one of these or go for maximus formula and 3870X2? Will 3870X2 perform okay at 1920x1200? Or get a worse mobo and SLI 8800 GTS 512?
 
Right now there is no clear 780i solution that has proven to be better than others. All currently available boards have issues, with the possible exception of the MSI P7N Diamond, which right now is still to new to know much about.

The EVGA and XFX reference boards have shown to be easy to work with and are competent overclockers. However, they carry over the same questionable power design and cheap capacitors used on the reference 680i boards, which were likely contributors to the NB and RAM burnouts many experienced on those boards. It's still to soon to gauge how stable and reliable these boards will be over the long term, but as of now I wouldn't set my hopes high. Already, many people on the EVGA forum are complaining about the familiar C1 error, as well as a new FF dead board error which seems to result more often than not in an RMA.

The ASUS boards use a better PWM design and employ better materials across the board (such as solid state capacitors.) Unfortunately, they are showing to have a whole other host of issues. The P5N-T has proven to be particularly troublesome to work with, especially with 45NM processors. Striker II Formulas are proving to be as difficult to OC as its predecessor, the Striker Extreme. Posts on Extreme Systems, for example, are showing that many Striker IIs are unstable with an FSB above 350mhz when paired with a Q6600.

The best option today may be the P7N Diamond. While there is little information about this board on the net at this time, since it was just released, the impressions available so far have been refreshingly positive. Like the ASUS boards, it employs a better power design and uses better components than the reference boards, which should translate into much improved long-term reliability. Unlike the ASUS boards, however, the first overclocking results have been very, very positive, with dual cores reaching a top benchable FSB of 570mhz, and quads reaching a strong stable FSB in the 450-470 range. Keep a look out for P7N news... it just may be the board to get.
 
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