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New build with questions

B

B!nd.

Gawd
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
757
1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Mostly gaming, some photoshop along with video editing
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
~$1500 probably more around $1750 w/o tax/ship
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
USA NY
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
-Case
-MOBO
-CPU
-GPU
-RAM
-PSU
-SSD
-COOLING (CASE/CPU)
-OS
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
All new parts. I have a 500GB HDD slave that I would like to revive. I could salvage my old case but meh
6) Will you be overclocking?
I would like to. I have not successfully done it to CPU or RAM. I tried but got lost.
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
24" ASUS 1920x1080
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Right when Kepler releases and 580 drops price.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
-Havent used USB 3.0 yet but I would like to.
-Interested in RAID. Haven't attempted it before, I've only set up a slave drive. It has also been a while.
-No firewire.
-No Crossfire or SLI. Maybe SLI in future.
-Will be using SATA 6Gb/s I have a TB external that I would like to use eSATA for.
-Not worried about onboard video but curious about another GPU for physx.
-The MOBO I picked out has UEFI but I never used it before. I have heard good things.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
I will be purchasing Win7 64-bit home prem.

Now that this is out of the way haha, second I would like to say hello, first time member here and I'm very excited to be a part of this community.

Little bio - Adam 22 y/o above average home/work computer user. I have been using computers for at least 8 or 9 years with some knowledge in hardware and software.

This will be my 3rd build the last one being about 3 years ago. My first two I had done entirely by myself from picking parts to setup. Although they went successfully I would like to do this one right and make sure I am getting the most out of it.

Here is my list of parts:
MOBO ASUS P8P67
CPU I5 2500K
PSU CORSAIR HX750
GPU EVGA GTX 580
SSD CRUCIAL M4 128GB
MEMORY G.SKILL RIPJAW 2X4GB DDR3 1600
CPU COOLER CORSAIR H100
CASE FAN SCYTHE ULTRA KAZE 120mm (replacing rear exhaust fan)
CASE CORSAIR WHITE 600T

I feel like I have a zillion questions so I will try my best to keep them short. Where to begin...

1. What are your thoughts on UEFI? I do want to attempt overclocking but I also dont want to spend $200 on a MOBO if I don't need to and wont see any performance losses.

2. I have read of people using a second GPU solely for Nvidia Physx. What kind of video card is required to set this up and how much of a difference does it make?

3. A. This will be my first SSD experience. How much different is the setup compared to HDD? Will the firmware that comes with the drive be the most updated version? What is the process for updating after I install the OS?
B. I have read about setting up two SSD drives in RAID 0 then mounting an HDD to the drives to maintain the SSD read/write speed on the HDD virtually giving you unlimited SSD space. Has anyone done this? Is it really worth it?
C. I have a used 500GB HDD slave drive from my last build (SATA 3Gb/s). Can I simply plug this into my new mobo and retrieve my information?

4. A. I decided to go with the H100. I plan on mounting it at the top of the case. I have heard of push-pull but still not really sure how it works. Is it one fan pushing and one pulling? What would be the most effective cooling method for my case/cpu?
B. It doesn't list a liquid cooler that comes with it? How often do I need to change the liquid? Any recommendations of brand?

5. HDMI or DVI? Will be running 1920x1080 1 Monitor. 2 in the future.

6. Overclocking. Is there a "must see" guide that will help me to get started? I know the concept and what it takes just not how to interpret the value changes in BIOS. Do I need to OC my RAM if I OC my CPU?

7. And lastly, it has been a while since I used my last rig so I am very behind on must have software for hardware monitoring. How updated is this page? And can anyone make any other recommendations? Here

Thanks for any help in advanced! I am so excited to put this together. Hopefully the Kepler will come out at the end of the month and the 580 will actually be a reasonable price.

b!nd.
 
Some answers:

#2) The overwhelming majority of games do not support GPU-accelerated Physx. In fact as of now only 2-dozen games released or in-dev still are supporting it, only a few of those titles are things you've heard of. There are 300+ CPU-Physx games do not confuse these with games that do GPU-Physx. See: http://physxinfo.com/index.php?p=gam&f=gpu I find it very hard to justify a dedicated Physx card myself as such.

#4) H100 is a sealed loop, you never pop it open ever. Push/pull means having fans on both sides of the radiator pulling air through on side and pushing it out the other. For a rad like the H100 this requires 4 fans.

#5) Doesn't matter that much. Only reason it would is if you're wanting to plug your computer into an AVR for sound digitally. Then HDMI all the way.

#7) Only big name software missing on the page is AIDA64 which is payware and a general system info tool that'll read out most things.
 
Skripka said:
#2) The overwhelming majority of games do not support GPU-accelerated Physx. In fact as of now only 2-dozen games released or in-dev still are supporting it, only a few of those titles are things you've heard of. There are 300+ CPU-Physx games do not confuse these with games that do GPU-Physx. See: http://physxinfo.com/index.php?p=gam&f=gpu I find it very hard to justify a dedicated Physx card myself as such.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up. One less thing to think about.

Skripka said:
#4) H100 is a sealed loop, you never pop it open ever. Push/pull means having fans on both sides of the radiator pulling air through on side and pushing it out the other. For a rad like the H100 this requires 4 fans.
Click to expand...

Couldn't this be done with just one fan pulling and one pushing? I'm assuming it helps if the all the fans are the same. Would this be the most effective method?

Thanks for the super fast reply!
 
B!nd. said:
Thanks for clearing that up. One less thing to think about.



Couldn't this be done with just one fan pulling and one pushing? I'm assuming it helps if the all the fans are the same. Would this be the most effective method?

Thanks for the super fast reply!
Click to expand...

Push/pull increases radiator efficiency, with high-end rad fans like AP-15s the increase is to the tune of 15-20% with good radiators. But only doing it on half your radiator will perform worse than being simply in Push.

Keep all fans the same model, since with most fans you cannot trust the validity of published specifications on most fans.
 
Skripka said:
Push/pull increases radiator efficiency, with high-end rad fans like AP-15s the increase is to the tune of 15-20% with good radiators. But only doing it on half your radiator will perform worse than being simply in Push.

Keep all fans the same model, since with most fans you cannot trust the validity of published specifications on most fans.
Click to expand...

I have read that the case I chose doesn't fit with 4 fans in push pull. Will two be fine? Or go with a different case? Open for suggestion.
 
I have a few questions of my own to ask....

Let's pretend, for argument's sake, that Kepler is delayed for at least a few more months... are you ready to start buying and building now? I ask because a lot of our general recommendations here are timed to NewEgg's monthly combination deals (or whatever other periodic specials that NewEgg offers), so our suggestions may change as often as weekly.

Can you help us out by indicating what games you plan on playing and what program(s) you use for video editing? Are you 100% certain that the GTX 580 or the Corsair H100 is what you need?

Given your past overclocking experience, what are you hoping for this time? Are you planning to limit your overclocking to just the processor or would you also like the option of overclocking your video card?

Ivy Bridge, which is an improved version of Intel's Sandy Bridge, is coming out soon (within the next few months). Are you willing to wait for Ivy Bridge (assuming that it will arrive well after Kepler does)?
 
tiraides said:
I have a few questions of my own to ask....

Let's pretend, for argument's sake, that Kepler is delayed for at least a few more months... are you ready to start buying and building now? I ask because a lot of our general recommendations here are timed to NewEgg's monthly combination deals (or whatever other periodic specials that NewEgg offers), so our suggestions may change as often as weekly.

Can you help us out by indicating what games you plan on playing and what program(s) you use for video editing? Are you 100% certain that the GTX 580 or the Corsair H100 is what you need?

Given your past overclocking experience, what are you hoping for this time? Are you planning to limit your overclocking to just the processor or would you also like the option of overclocking your video card?

Ivy Bridge, which is an improved version of Intel's Sandy Bridge, is coming out soon (within the next few months). Are you willing to wait for Ivy Bridge (assuming that it will arrive well after Kepler does)?
Click to expand...

Great questions.

I am ready to start buying and building now but I figured I would wait to see if there will be a price drop in the 580 and by how much.

The games I will be playing are Crysis, Crysis 2, Metro 2033, WoW, Diablo 3, and possibly BF3 maxed out at 1920x1080. The software I work with are Photoshop, After Effects, and Premiere mostly. I use to do 3D modeling and would like to start using Autodesk Maya again. I wont be rendering any intense scenes.

As for the H100 I am currently doing heavy research on cases that can effectively use push-pull mounted on the top of the case. I have also been reading that because the radiator is so thin, the extra fans don't make a difference so I'm kind of stuck. Personally I would like the H100 or even the H70 over any air cooling method. I want the longest lifespan for my CPU and feel that liquid cooling is necessary.

Bringing me to overclocking. I had dabbled into it with my last build. I had a Phenom 9850 which was hard for me to grasp as a first timer. I have read how much easier it is nowadays to OC with UEFI and the Sandy Bridge K models. I am not looking to push my hardware to its limits just to get a little more of my moneys worth. For GPU I relied on the EVGA precision tool for my last GTX 260 core 216.

I am aware of Ivy bridge and not quite interested. Speculation is that the performance wont be as significant outside of mobile devices. Also I feel the 2500K will suit my needs just fine. I want to wait for more established knowledge of IB and Kepler before I would venture forth.

Hope this helps!
 
1) I think it's an awesome feature. Early last year I was very vehement about not recommending non-UEFI mobos. Unfortunately good UEFI capable mobos cost a good deal more than their non-UEFI counterparts. As such, I've started to recommend non-UEFI capable mobos over the past few months when there's a limited budget. If you can afford a solid UEFI mobo, get it. If not, no worries.

As for the mobo you chose, no matter when you buy, I would not recommend that mobo for three reasons:
1) Asus' P67 mobos weren't all that stable
2) Intel's Z68 chipset comes with the ability to use onboard GPU and slightl faster SSD performance.
3) Asus' Z68 mobos are a bit more stable than their P67 mobos.

I recommend this mobo instead:
$180 - Asus P8Z68-V/GEN3 Intel Z68 ATX Motherboard

$30 cheaper but better stability and virtually the same performance except for SSD performance.

3)
A) More than likely it will have an outdated firmware. So update the firmware on the SSD when possible. If you're using Windows 7, really not much you need to do: just install like you would with a regular hard drive. Windows 7 should automatically do the alignment necessary for optimal SSD performance.
B) It's worth it if you need the fastest performance possible. Though for simplicity's sake, I'd stick to a single SSD.
C) Yes.

6) Search around either the Intel CPU subforum or the Overclocking and Cooling subforums we have here for a guide. Dunno if a must-see guide. No you don't need to OC your RAM if you OC that CPU.

B!nd. said:
Great questions.
I am ready to start buying and building now but I figured I would wait to see if there will be a price drop in the 580 and by how much.
Click to expand...
There probably won't be a price drop with the 580. Even if there was, it would take a long time for said price drops to show up.
B!nd. said:
The software I work with are Photoshop, After Effects, and Premiere mostly.
Click to expand...
Are you using the CS5 versions?
B!nd. said:
I want to wait for more established knowledge of IB and Kepler before I would venture forth.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately it's gonna be another month and a half to two months from now before we get solid details about IB and possibly Kepler. So are you gonna wait those two months?
 
Good to know thanks. But ultimately the UEFI caught my attention when hearing how easy it was to overclock with. If there is no difference with a non-UEFI bios then I will definitely go with the cheaper of the two.

You really don't think the price will drop? I could understand if a Kepler costs $650+ then keep the 580 at 500 but I'm thinking the Kepler will be around $550-$600. But whatever either way I am going to pick up the 580 I'm just hoping the price drops ( I can wait until Kepler release ).

CS5 for Adobe software yes.

Haha well I had no intention to pick up IB or Kepler anyway. My next upgrade will probably consist of maxwell and/or haswell.

I can't wait for IB I want my comp within a couple of weeks! :D

But again thank you for the help.

Also how does the PSU look? Any real difference between the TX and AX? And could I get away with 650W?
 
B!nd. said:
Good to know thanks. But ultimately the UEFI caught my attention when hearing how easy it was to overclock with. If there is no difference with a non-UEFI bios then I will definitely go with the cheaper of the two.
Click to expand...
Note that the Asus mobo I listed does come with UEFI.
B!nd. said:
You really don't think the price will drop? I could understand if a Kepler costs $650+ then keep the 580 at 500 but I'm thinking the Kepler will be around $550-$600. But whatever either way I am going to pick up the 580 I'm just hoping the price drops
Click to expand...
Like I said earlier: it would take a long time for said price drops to show up. And that's assuming that GPU companies will keep making the GTX 580 and/or there's a massive supply of GTX 580 cards in the supply chain. There's a good chance that GPU manufacturers might switch production over to the new Kepler GPUs sooner rather than later. As such, stock can dry up and prices go up. This occured just recently with the AMD HD 69xx series GPUs: Rather than go lower in price with the new AMD 7xxx series release, the HD 69xx series actually went up in price as GPU manufacturers switched full production to those HD 7xxx cards.

If there is a large supply, it would still take awhile for the GPU prices to drop: The GTX 480 just recently hit the $250 mark and even hit the $200 mark with a sale awhile. But the GTX 480 was released back in April 2010. And the GTX 580 was released in October 2010. With that said, the GTX 580 has dropped in price ever since the release of the HD 7xxx series cards. But I doubt Nvidia will drop the price on their own GPUs to compete against newer Nvidia GPUs.

To bad you're using those Adobe software.
B!nd. said:
( I can wait until Kepler release ).
....
I can't wait for IB I want my comp within a couple of weeks! :D
Click to expand...
It's only a month after those two weeks. ;) And Kepler is supposedly due around the IB timeframe. So a bit of problem with your statement.
B!nd. said:
Also how does the PSU look? Any real difference between the TX and AX? And could I get away with 650W?
Click to expand...
The PSU is fine. The AX is of significantly higher quality than the TX and has modular cables whereas the TX series generally don't. In terms of ranked quality, Corsair is trying to get this order: TX < HX < AX. You could get away with a 650W for a single GPU system. However if you plan on using SLI, I'd actually aim for a 850W PSU.
 
Danny Bui said:
Like I said earlier: it would take a long time for said price drops to show up. And that's assuming that GPU companies will keep making the GTX 580 and/or there's a massive supply of GTX 580 cards in the supply chain. There's a good chance that GPU manufacturers might switch production over to the new Kepler GPUs sooner rather than later. As such, stock can dry up and prices go up. This occured just recently with the AMD HD 69xx series GPUs: Rather than go lower in price with the new AMD 7xxx series release, the HD 69xx series actually went up in price as GPU manufacturers switched full production to those HD 7xxx cards.
Click to expand...

I never thought about it that way. That does make a lot of sense.


Danny Bui said:
To bad you're using those Adobe software.
Click to expand...
Why is that?

Danny Bui said:
It's only a month after those two weeks. ;) And Kepler is supposedly due around the IB timeframe. So a bit of problem with your statement.
Click to expand...

I though the rumor was that Kepler comes out end of March, IB April/May?

Thanks for the additional insight.
 
B!nd. said:
Why is that?
Click to expand...
Well Adobe software takes good advantage of Nvidia's CUDA tech. As such, for Adobe software, Nvidia video cards are your best bet. However for a gaming video card and from a price to performane standpoint, the GTX 580 isn't worth it considering that the faster AMD HD 7950 isn't that much more. But since you're using Adobe software, that negates the GTX 580's poor gaming price to performance ratio a bit.

B!nd. said:
I though the rumor was that Kepler comes out end of March, IB April/May?
Click to expand...
I've heard April/May for Kepler.
 
Thanks for the addtional insight Danny.

I actually have a few more questions if anyone would be so kind :p

I have never flashed a BIOS before. Is it recommended to flash to 3201 for P8Z68-V-GEN3? I couldnt really find any info about this on the net.

Also, going over some of the utilities ASUS has listed for this mobo, are there any must have pieces of software like the Intel Rapid Speed Technology? Or any of the USB 3.0 controllers?

Basically anything from this list.
 
If you feel comfortable about flashing the BIOS yourself, I say go for it. New BIOS updates not only add compatibility for newer processors and memory but they also have hotfixes to alleviate any known or lingering problems with the board. But FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY, as the risk of totally damaging your motherboard does exist, regardless of which method you use to flash the BIOS.

The Asus website (especially if you go to the Taiwan/HQ page) has more current drivers that what is on your CD/DVD. I recommend using the most up-to-date drivers you can find. At the bare minimum, you'll need:

- Intel Rapid Speed Technology
- Intel chipset drivers
- Ethernet drivers
- Onboard audio
- SATA drivers

You should also grab the following:

- USB 3.0 drivers
- Lucid Virtu software and VGA drivers (for onboard video capabilities)
- BIOS utility for flashing under DOS (as an insurance measure)
- JMicron Controller Driver

I'll leave the rest up to you.
 
tiraides said:
If you feel comfortable about flashing the BIOS yourself, I say go for it. New BIOS updates not only add compatibility for newer processors and memory but they also have hotfixes to alleviate any known or lingering problems with the board. But FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY, as the risk of totally damaging your motherboard does exist, regardless of which method you use to flash the BIOS.

The Asus website (especially if you go to the Taiwan/HQ page) has more current drivers that what is on your CD/DVD. I recommend using the most up-to-date drivers you can find. At the bare minimum, you'll need:

- Intel Rapid Speed Technology
- Intel chipset drivers
- Ethernet drivers
- Onboard audio
- SATA drivers

You should also grab the following:

- USB 3.0 drivers
- Lucid Virtu software and VGA drivers (for onboard video capabilities)
- BIOS utility for flashing under DOS (as an insurance measure)
- JMicron Controller Driver

I'll leave the rest up to you.
Click to expand...

Wow excellent thank you very much. I search for some flashing guides. Will definitely
be using a flash drive.
 
Don't forget to fold for Team 33, you know for stressing the system to make sure it works and all that good stuff.
 
tiraides said:
If you feel comfortable about flashing the BIOS yourself, I say go for it. New BIOS updates not only add compatibility for newer processors and memory but they also have hotfixes to alleviate any known or lingering problems with the board. But FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY, as the risk of totally damaging your motherboard does exist, regardless of which method you use to flash the BIOS.

The Asus website (especially if you go to the Taiwan/HQ page) has more current drivers that what is on your CD/DVD. I recommend using the most up-to-date drivers you can find. At the bare minimum, you'll need:

- Intel Rapid Speed Technology
- Intel chipset drivers
- Ethernet drivers
- Onboard audio
- SATA drivers

You should also grab the following:

- USB 3.0 drivers
- Lucid Virtu software and VGA drivers (for onboard video capabilities)
- BIOS utility for flashing under DOS (as an insurance measure)
- JMicron Controller Driver

I'll leave the rest up to you.
Click to expand...

Tiraides,

Is JMicron necessary for my board? I don't really know what is/does but I thought Intel was the controller for my SATA ports?

Thanks,

Bind
 
I don't know what the JMicron Controller specifically controls. However, given its relatively small file size, it won't kill you to download it and find out on your own.
 
You really don't need CUDA for Photoshop unless you're regularly running a lot of complex filters, and even then a reasonably fast CPU (like the one you're considering, particularly with a bit of an OC on it) will do just fine.

Jmicron drivers enable ESATA and other onboard features. You should get them even if you don't use those features immediately, as it'll avoid confusion ("why doesn't my new external harddrive work?" etc) later.
 
I've seen configurations using 4 fans for push/pull config on the 600T. I just recently purchased the 600T SE and H100, going to see what the idle/load temps are before making any justifications for 4 fans.
 
Still going with GTX580. I think I'm a bit of a Nvidia Fan-Boy. In my gut I know it's right. I just don't know if 3GB 580 is right. Won't be playing higher than 1080p on all games 2D. I just want the comfortable framerates :p

Ah, then I will definitely be install Jmicron controller because of my unused 1TB drive that is currently a desk piece.

BugginOuT. I actually decided to shell out the extra dough and go for the 650D. I love the features it has like the mesh screens for the front intake and PSU. Also the painted inside with the lovely grommets. I'll stick with 2 fans on the H100 and see if I have the space for push pull.

thanks for the additional info guys. I have learned so much in the past week. Now I need my tax return :mad:
 
B!nd. said:
Still going with GTX580. I think I'm a bit of a Nvidia Fan-Boy. In my gut I know it's right. I just don't know if 3GB 580 is right. Won't be playing higher than 1080p on all games 2D. I just want the comfortable framerates :p
Click to expand...
It depends on the following:
What games you're planning on playing.
Whether or not you care about "best bang for the buck".
When you're planning on purchasing
What settings do you want.
 
Danny Bui said:
It depends on the following:
What games you're planning on playing.
Whether or not you care about "best bang for the buck".
When you're planning on purchasing
What settings do you want.
Click to expand...

For the demanding games... Crysis 1&2, Metro 2033, WoW, Diablo 3, maybe BF3 and Skyrim at 1920x1080 idealy 4x MSAA.

I heard that if all the ram isn't being ultilized it causes a decrease in performance. But the 3GB model is now $480 on newegg. I wouldn't mind spending the additional $40 for another gig and a half.

Does the 3Gb model require more power?
 
B!nd. said:
For the demanding games... Crysis 1&2, Metro 2033, WoW, Diablo 3, maybe BF3 and Skyrim at 1920x1080 idealy 4x MSAA.
Click to expand...

It's the last two games that's makes the difference: Both games have been shown to use more than 1.5Gb of VRAM at high settings. So for those two games alone, yes get the 3GB model. And no, there will be no decrease in performance if the RAM sin't being utilized. The other games you've mentioned will be fine with just 1.5GB.
B!nd. said:
Does the 3Gb model require more power?
Click to expand...
Just a little more but not enough to make a huge difference.

Though I'd have to agree with Topweasel as well: Apparently my earlier info about the 680 launch was wrong.
 
Danny Bui said:
It's the last two games that's makes the difference: Both games have been shown to use more than 1.5Gb of VRAM at high settings. So for those two games alone, yes get the 3GB model. And no, there will be no decrease in performance if the RAM sin't being utilized. The other games you've mentioned will be fine with just 1.5GB.

Just a little more but not enough to make a huge difference.

Though I'd have to agree with Topweasel as well: Apparently my earlier info about the 680 launch was wrong.
Click to expand...

Hmm well I probably won't put my order in until April so in that case if Kepler goes for $500 I will probably pick it up. But I have a feeling it will be at least $550 Iike most 7970's.

Thanks for the help guys.
 
April? Is that time frame only for the video card or is it for the entire build as well?
 
Entire build. Order will be placed hopefully at the beginning of April if Kepler is still in stock.
 
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