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New build to replace my old platform

G

Ghost26

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
110
Hi all !

I've sold my current configuration to a friend which does office applications. It was still working fine, but since I had a buyer for this 4-year old configuration, I jumped on the opportunity to sell it.

My old rig was :

CPU : Core 2 Duo E8400 overclocked @ 3.6 GHz

RAM : G.Skill PI Black Edition PC2-6400 8 GB kit

Motherboard : Asus Maximus Formula First Generation

Case : CoolerMaster CM 690 First Generation

I sold it last week for 350 $ (which is a good price for 4-year old hardware I think).



As you can guess, I'm an enthusiast user. I'm currently studying in electronics and networking, so my PC is a learning tool as well as a workstation.

Here are the other components that I'm keeping :

Power Supply : Corsair HX 520

HDDs1 : 1xRAID 1 Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB

HDDs2 : 1xRAID 0 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (On which I run my virtual machines).

GPU : PowerColor Radeon HD4850 (I don't play a lot, it's mainly for BOINC research programs...)

CPU Cooler : Zalman CNPS9700

GPU Cooler : Zalman VF1000

SSD : Samsung Business 256 GB SSD (even If I give you the reference, it's not a consumer model, so there is almost no detail of it on the Internet).

Sound Card : Asus Xonar Essence STX PCI-Express x1 (plugged to a nice Onkyo TX-8255 and Polk Audio Monitor speakers ).


So I'm currently looking to buy a Sandy Bridge configuration as I don't have any other PC than my Asus UL30V ultraportable

At the beginning of my research, I was looking toward a Xeon based configuration, which supports the Intel VT-d technology for VMWare ESXi. But since there's not a lot of motherboard supporting this technology (excepted the Asus P8B WS which is, I think, not very interesting for an enthusiast user as there's not a lot of options and gadgets on it ), I gave up with the idea of getting a Xeon based workstation (which also can't be overclocked, reducing the possibilities at the end of the life of the platform). I've also noted that ESXi actually works well with a lot of mainboard which doesn't support this technology, and since I've never used ESXi yet and it would be only to discover this system, maybe I should sacrifice the VT-d to get other options which will be more usefull

One thing I would do is to resale my actual Samsung SSD to get a new generation such as the Samsung 830 series or Intel 520 codenamed Cherryville which is supposed to come on the market on November 4th.



I've done a lot of research to build my new rig, and I'd like to have your opinion on the choices I've made.

Mainboard : Asus P8P67 WS Revolution

CPU : Core i7 2700K (which will ben available on October 24th!)

RAM : Kingston HyperX Genesis Edition 8 GB (and expand to 16 GB later, because I run a lot of virtual machines and I like to be confortable while running them).


What do you think about this platform? Price is not a problem (while remaining reasonable!).

I'm looking for something that is incredibly reliable and stable. I plan to overclock the CPU but not out of the box.

For the motherboard, I like to have a lot of stuff to play with. The more usefull options I have, the best it is, but I don't think the Z68 chipset would be very usefull for my usage.

Is there another high-end, performance motherboard you would recommend to me instead of the WS Revolution ?

Everything will be running under Windows Server 2008R2 and occasionnaly VMWare ESXi.

I would also like to know your opinion about a Xeon E3 configuration. If it really worth it, maybe I would reconsider this option...

So, in summary :

Budget range : none.

System Usage : Virtual machines, scientific research (BOINC), home server (Apache file server), Multimedia, Workstation.

Looking for : the most reliable and the most stable platform. Stability is very important for me.


Thank you very much for all your advices !

Ghost26
 
The CPU is fine.

As for the motherboard, considering that you're planning on using a server OS, virtualization, and want bells and whistles, that Asus is fine. The second Intel NIC on that mobo makes it a decent a value.

However the RAM is the problem: According to Kingston's website, virtually all of The HyperX Genesis RAM is rated at 1.65V. Thats not good at all as the max RAM voltage for Core i series CPUs is 1.65V. Generally we recommend 1.5V RAM to avoid any potential issues in the future. Especially since there's been an occasion or two of Intel denying warranty on their CPUs when 1.65V RAM was used.

So try to find RAM rated at 1.5V. RAM speed or timings don't matter.
 
Thank you both for your answers =)

"As for the motherboard, considering that you're planning on using a server OS, virtualization, and want bells and whistles, that Asus is fine. The second Intel NIC on that mobo makes it a decent a value. "


Great.

Remember I want the most stable mainbaord available on the consumer market. What about Gigabyte mainboards, the GA-P67A-UD7 for example ? Is this board would be more stable according to its 24 power phases ? Does generally Gigabyte has more stable mainboard ? Is the built quality the same between Asus and Gigabyte ? I'm less interesed toward MSI though, I find the P67A-GD80 less interesting than the UD7 or WS Revolution ...

@ Forceman : I was more interested toward the VT-d before I knew that this technology was running only under the Q chipset or the Asus P8B WS server mainboard. Since I know that, I abandoned the idea because I'm a lot more an enthusiast user than a corporate one ... I want to have fun with my hardware, not simply assemble it and run it (almost the only thing you can do with corporate mainboards ;) ). So VT-d is not my priority anymore.

"However the RAM is the problem: According to Kingston's website, virtually all of The HyperX Genesis RAM is rated at 1.65V. Thats not good at all as the max RAM voltage for Core i series CPUs is 1.65V. Generally we recommend 1.5V RAM to avoid any potential issues in the future. Especially since there's been an occasion or two of Intel denying warranty on their CPUs when 1.65V RAM was used.

So try to find RAM rated at 1.5V. RAM speed or timings don't matter. "

I really doubt that 1.65v RAM can damage the CPU. Intel's own mainboard DP67BG claims to support RAM voltage up to 1.65v. After all, most RAM modules with XMP profiles (an Intel's tech) are running at 1.65v.

From the DP67BG User manual :

Main Memory
NOTE
To be fully compliant with all applicable Intel
® SDRAM memory specifications, the
board should be populated with DIMMs that support the Serial Presence Detect (SPD)
data structure. If your memory modules do not support SPD, you will see a
notification to this effect on the screen at power up. The BIOS will attempt to
configure the memory controller for normal operation.
The Desktop Board supports the following memory and interface:
• Four 240-pin Double Data Rate 3 (DDR3) SDRAM Dual Inline Memory Module
(DIMM) sockets with gold-plated contacts arranged in two channels
• 2133 MHz to 1066 MHz DDR3 SDRAM Memory Modules
• Support for single- and dual-channel memory interleaving
• Unbuffered, non-registered single- or double-sided DIMMs with a voltage rating of
1.65 V or less
NOTE
Using a DIMM with a voltage rating higher than 1.65 V may damage the
processor


And it's seems taht all high end RAM work with 1.65v. The Patriot Viper II Division II are also running under a voltage of 1.65v. http://patriotmemory.com/products/detailp.jsp?prodline=5&catid=34&prodgroupid=194&id=1041&type=1

But these modules have a tall heatsink, which affraid me if one day I'm forced to change my Zalman CNPS9700 (I have a bad past with fan bearings :p )

Do you have any other high end RAM modules to suggest me that work at 1.5v ?

Thank you for your opinions and help !!! I'm making a 4-year buying right now so I have to think to every single details before buying ;)
 
Ghost26 said:
Thank you both for your answers =)

"As for the motherboard, considering that you're planning on using a server OS, virtualization, and want bells and whistles, that Asus is fine. The second Intel NIC on that mobo makes it a decent a value. "


Great.

Remember I want the most stable mainbaord available on the consumer market. What about Gigabyte mainboards, the GA-P67A-UD7 for example ? Is this board would be more stable according to its 24 power phases ? Does generally Gigabyte has more stable mainboard ? Is the built quality the same between Asus and Gigabyte ? I'm less interesed toward MSI though, I find the P67A-GD80 less interesting than the UD7 or WS Revolution ...

@ Forceman : I was more interested toward the VT-d before I knew that this technology was running only under the Q chipset or the Asus P8B WS server mainboard. Since I know that, I abandoned the idea because I'm a lot more an enthusiast user than a corporate one ... I want to have fun with my hardware, not simply assemble it and run it (almost the only thing you can do with corporate mainboards ;) ). So VT-d is not my priority anymore.

"However the RAM is the problem: According to Kingston's website, virtually all of The HyperX Genesis RAM is rated at 1.65V. Thats not good at all as the max RAM voltage for Core i series CPUs is 1.65V. Generally we recommend 1.5V RAM to avoid any potential issues in the future. Especially since there's been an occasion or two of Intel denying warranty on their CPUs when 1.65V RAM was used.

So try to find RAM rated at 1.5V. RAM speed or timings don't matter. "

I really doubt that 1.65v RAM can damage the CPU. Intel's own mainboard DP67BG claims to support RAM voltage up to 1.65v. After all, most RAM modules with XMP profiles (an Intel's tech) are running at 1.65v.

From the DP67BG User manual :

Main Memory
NOTE
To be fully compliant with all applicable Intel
® SDRAM memory specifications, the
board should be populated with DIMMs that support the Serial Presence Detect (SPD)
data structure. If your memory modules do not support SPD, you will see a
notification to this effect on the screen at power up. The BIOS will attempt to
configure the memory controller for normal operation.
The Desktop Board supports the following memory and interface:
• Four 240-pin Double Data Rate 3 (DDR3) SDRAM Dual Inline Memory Module
(DIMM) sockets with gold-plated contacts arranged in two channels
• 2133 MHz to 1066 MHz DDR3 SDRAM Memory Modules
• Support for single- and dual-channel memory interleaving
• Unbuffered, non-registered single- or double-sided DIMMs with a voltage rating of
1.65 V or less
NOTE
Using a DIMM with a voltage rating higher than 1.65 V may damage the
processor


And it's seems taht all high end RAM work with 1.65v. The Patriot Viper II Division II are also running under a voltage of 1.65v. http://patriotmemory.com/products/detailp.jsp?prodline=5&catid=34&prodgroupid=194&id=1041&type=1

But these modules have a tall heatsink, which affraid me if one day I'm forced to change my Zalman CNPS9700 (I have a bad past with fan bearings :p )

Do you have any other high end RAM modules to suggest me that work at 1.5v ?

Thank you for your opinions and help !!! I'm making a 4-year buying right now so I have to think to every single details before buying ;)
Click to expand...

Actually, the motherboard manufacturers do not keep up with the actual needs. If you take a look at Intel's datasheet for the Sandy Bridge CPUs, Intel does not recommend a DIMM voltage higher than 1.575V for long-term use.
 
E4g1e said:
Actually, the motherboard manufacturers do not keep up with the actual needs. If you take a look at Intel's datasheet for the Sandy Bridge CPUs, Intel does not recommend a DIMM voltage higher than 1.575V for long-term use.
Click to expand...

So, how to get high performance RAM under this recommended voltage ?
 
Ghost26 said:
Remember I want the most stable mainbaord available on the consumer market. What about Gigabyte mainboards, the GA-P67A-UD7 for example ? Is this board would be more stable according to its 24 power phases ? Does generally Gigabyte has more stable mainboard ? Is the built quality the same between Asus and Gigabyte ? I'm less interesed toward MSI though, I find the P67A-GD80 less interesting than the UD7 or WS Revolution ...
Click to expand...
Both Gigabyte and Asus have roughly the same stability and quality now in their motherboards.

Ghost26 said:
I really doubt that 1.65v RAM can damage the CPU. Intel's own mainboard DP67BG claims to support RAM voltage up to 1.65v. After all, most RAM modules with XMP profiles (an Intel's tech) are running at 1.65v.
Click to expand...

Straight from an Intel rep right here on the forum:
IntelEnthusiast said:
Ok this is an issue that I have spent a lot of time on. I have even sent this up to an engineer to find out on this. The issue with this is the 1.65v memory is pushing the tolerances on the processor too much. Over on Tom's they did some testing on the memory to see where the point is and they found that anything above 1.575v can damage the processor. In most cases if you have 1.65v memory before you do anything else go into the Bios and set the memory at 1.5v to avoid this issue.
Click to expand...
Plus the Intel datasheet that E4g1e mentioned.
Ghost26 said:
So, how to get high performance RAM under this recommended voltage ?
Click to expand...
Well first note that current Sandy Bridge CPUs don't really scale that well with higher RAM frequency. In fact, it's basically gotten to the point where you would honestly not notice the difference between DDR3 1333 and DDR3 2133 with the current SB CPUs. Same with timings too. With that said, if you still want to cling to the whole higher-speed RAM = significantly greater performance, just stick with DDR3 1600 RAM. At least those RAM tend to be close to DDR3 1333 in price.

If you want to waste money, then get this RAM:
$70 - G.Skill Ripjaws X Series F3-12800CL8D-8GBXM 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM

But you would honestly not be able to tell the difference between the above RAM and this RAM:
$42 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

Or this RAM:
$50 - G.Skill Sniper F3-12800CL9D-8GBSR 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM
 
Well, nice to know that ! I really didin't know that about RAm and Sandy Bridge.

I like G.Skill RAM. I currently have the Pi Black Edition Series that fits well with my CNPS9700 CPU cooler. But in general, for the machines I build, I always buy Kingston memory (always bought the Blu line, which all modules of this line has 1.5v voltage rating, but this line is not an ethusiast high-performance line such as the Genesis) mainly for their low profile heatsink which are the same size than a standard DIMM for CPU cooler compatibility.

The G.Skill Ripjaws' heatsinks are too high for me. Maybe the Sniper is less high, but they really doesn't fit with the "workstation" aspect and they seems more gimmik..... ;)

I know, I know, I'm kinda difficult for choosing hardware, but I have to think to everything. The ugliest thing I could afford is to buy something inadequate for my futur PC ;)

As for heatsinks height, I might be more interested toward Mushkin RAM. Another United States' quality product and they are in the high performance market.

This kit impressed me : http://www.mushkin.com/Memory/Blackline/996988.aspx

But unfortunately, it is not available in Canada. Only the 1.5v is available : http://www..com/products/?sku=60640&vpn=996995&manufacture=Mushkin Enhanced&promoid=1366

Which isn't bad. Heatsink is still low profile and less high than all G.Skill models.

What do you think about this Mushkin RAM?

Thank You !
 
I don't really see a difference between that Mushkin RAM and the G.Skill Sniper RAM I recommended but yah no problem with that Mushkin. Zero difference in quality and performance between the two RAM actually.
 
Ok. Thanks a lot :)

If between now and the time of buying the 1.35v comes out in Canada, I'll jump on it !

So the config would be :

P8P67 WS Revolution

Mushkin 996995

Core i7 2700K


Is it a nice high performance platform ? Would you change something ?
 
If overclocking wasn't a factor, I would have gone with server-grade hardware instead for higher reliability.
 
$240 - Intel Xeon E3-1230
$209 - Supermicro MBD-X9SCM-F-O Intel C204 mATX Server Motherboard
$70 - Kingston 2 x 4GB KVR1333D3E9SK2/8G ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1333 RAM
---
Total: $519 USD.
 
But ... I can't even put a graphics card on this platform .... It only has PCI-Express x8 slots ... Not very usefull for GPGPU applications ... :/

And well ... I can't really have fun with this kind of platform... Does the performance improvment worth it ?

This is really for a true server platform ... I don't think I really need this according to my personnal usage... But thanks for the idea !
 
Ghost26 said:
This is really for a true server platform ... I don't think I really need this according to my personnal usage... But thanks for the idea !
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Like I said, for sheer stability and reliability, thats what I'd go for. For "fun", probably the setup you have planned now. Performance wise, pretty much the same at stock.
 
Ok thanks.

I think I would go with the setup I planned. Mainly because I think I have more possibilities on a long term perspective. Overclocking always give a second life to a CPU, while the mainboard as several options that can always be useful.

Thanks a lot ! If anybody has other ideas or suggestions, feel free to write them !
 
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