New Build? Suggestions? DDR4?

[SolidSnake3035]

I need to build my friend a new computer, and I've been trying to figure out what to go with for a while now, but I'm a bit stuck.
It's a case of him not having a desktop anymore so there's no choice of simple upgrade or waiting for something new in the future, and he's been wanting to do this for a while now.
He wants to build something really powerful, and I was thinking for a while we'd probably go for the latest i5 or i7, unless AMD had something good by the time we went to build it. But I've been looking around lately and it seems like the 4xxx i5's and i7's are really not worth it at all, and I don't want to waste his money.
So I was thinking if something new and good will be coming out soon – within a year or so – then we could just put together a 2500k or 2600k build in the meantime, and then just do a simple mobo/cpu/ram upgrade. But I really don't know the current or upcoming state of things, so I'm looking for a bunch of advice.

Is a totally new architecture with DDR4 coming out any time soon? Does anything upcoming look promising for performance and cost?(Similar cost to what's available now, i.e. not a $1000 CPU)
What should I put together for him now? He wants to order everything within a week or two...
If there's something good coming in 2014 we'll probably do a 2600k build, but if the future is fairly uncertain, would it be smart to go for a newer series?
He already got an awesome 2560x1600 monitor and a 7970 6GB cause he found a couple great deals, so I wouldn't want to throw something together that wouldn't bring out most of the glory of that setup. Though I also don't want to waste a bunch of extra money if something worth upgrading to is coming soon.
Also, we're likely going for a custom liquid cooling setup for nice cool overclocking, which would stick around through any upgrades.

So that was probably well too long-winded, but I hope it gets my point and situation across.
Thanks for any suggestions and advice!

 

[Tsumi]

Haswell-E with DDR4 is scheduled for late next year, and is most likely going to be stupidly expensive, especially the RAM.

Any modern $100+ CPU can drive a single 7970, especially at 2560x1600. He's going to be GPU limited, not CPU limited at high resolutions. The higher the resolution, the more important GPU horsepower becomes. Of course, there are games that are exceptions to the rule, so knowing what games he will be playing is important as well.

 

[SolidSnake3035]

Haswell-E with DDR4 is scheduled for late next year, and is most likely going to be stupidly expensive, especially the RAM.

That's unfortunate... other than price is it looking promising?

Any modern $100+ CPU can drive a single 7970, especially at 2560x1600. He's going to be GPU limited, not CPU limited at high resolutions. The higher the resolution, the more important GPU horsepower becomes. Of course, there are games that are exceptions to the rule, so knowing what games he will be playing is important as well.

He'll be playing a lot, hopefully. Recent and upcoming MMOs, some FPSs, StarCraft 2, and probably lots of stuff coming out in the next year.
I was also thinking, with the new consoles both having 8 cores, that it would probably be smart to have something capable of running highly threaded software really well since I'm sure a lot of(all) games will move towards that now. That's another reason I'm hoping that something new and exciting would be coming out soon.

 

[Tsumi]

AMD's Steamroller architecture looks promising, and is supposed to roll out in quad-core APU form in early 2014. No word (yet) on 8-core FX models.

Haswell-E, as you can probably guess by the -E designation, is the extreme platform, and will inherit the current socket 2011 prices. Plus, with DDR4 being brand new, it can cost up to twice as much per GB as DDR3. Your best bet for cheap DDR4 will be at least a year after DDR4 is released, and most likely around 2-3 years after. It was the same story with DDR2 and DDR3.

 

[modulus]

He'll be playing a lot, hopefully. Recent and upcoming MMOs, some FPSs, StarCraft 2, and probably lots of stuff coming out in the next year.

Starcraft 2 and a lot of MMO's are some of the exceptions that are more processor dependent than a lot of other games. Just FYI.

I still reckon 4670k is best bang for buck gaming. With a 2560x1600 monitor and 7970 why on earth would you try and save a few bucks on a POS CPU you will probably regret in the near future?

 

[dragonstongue]

twice as much will be cheap, remember how much DDR3 was at launch? DDR2 was $ for many factors, but I do not remember launch speeds of DDR2 being like $400+ for a modest amount.

the whole "8 cores" is marketing bs pure and simple. Intel quad core with 8 threads demolishes anything AMD has right now, more $ yes, but also more performance. If you overclock the "8 cores" to make up this headroom then yes they are stupidly fast but also get wicked hot and use a lot of power, Even Intel "modern" chips which are decent on power use end up using an astounding amount of power when pushed hard.

Anyways, FX 8350 is a good chip it is, I think the 6350 is the best $/performance for current AMD chips but this probably will change when Kaveri releases(steam roller based) Intel wise there is many different chips out that have great performance, you don't need top of the line to have great performance, most of the time it truly is wasted on just gaming potential, again, its all marketing.

I myself use AMD period, but, was not at all impressed with first gen FX(for performance and power) second gen is decent but third gen is where we will really see the direction they are going AND they will have had ample time to work the kinks out of the design and bring forth new things such as Mantle and openCL/openGL tweaks to get the most out of it.

2500/2600k or 3570/3770k would be best bets however 6350/8350 are also great chips for nearly every game out there although there are games that most certainly get more raw performance out of the Intel, personally I would go AMD straight up as there is many things on the horizon that will level the playing field.

A lot of threads that can run fast, or a lot of threads that chew themselves up trying to thread, that is the issue that will be sorted out with Steamroller. Yeh and DDR4 might be faster then ddr3 but just like ddr3 it will be some time before they are able to get the latency low enough for the extra speed to matter in the real world.

 

[Tsumi]

twice as much will be cheap, remember how much DDR3 was at launch? DDR2 was $ for many factors, but I do not remember launch speeds of DDR2 being like $400+ for a modest amount.

the whole "8 cores" is marketing bs pure and simple. Intel quad core with 8 threads demolishes anything AMD has right now, more $ yes, but also more performance. If you overclock the "8 cores" to make up this headroom then yes they are stupidly fast but also get wicked hot and use a lot of power, Even Intel "modern" chips which are decent on power use end up using an astounding amount of power when pushed hard.

Anyways, FX 8350 is a good chip it is, I think the 6350 is the best $/performance for current AMD chips but this probably will change when Kaveri releases(steam roller based) Intel wise there is many different chips out that have great performance, you don't need top of the line to have great performance, most of the time it truly is wasted on just gaming potential, again, its all marketing.

I myself use AMD period, but, was not at all impressed with first gen FX(for performance and power) second gen is decent but third gen is where we will really see the direction they are going AND they will have had ample time to work the kinks out of the design and bring forth new things such as Mantle and openCL/openGL tweaks to get the most out of it.

2500/2600k or 3570/3770k would be best bets however 6350/8350 are also great chips for nearly every game out there although there are games that most certainly get more raw performance out of the Intel, personally I would go AMD straight up as there is many things on the horizon that will level the playing field.

A lot of threads that can run fast, or a lot of threads that chew themselves up trying to thread, that is the issue that will be sorted out with Steamroller. Yeh and DDR4 might be faster then ddr3 but just like ddr3 it will be some time before they are able to get the latency low enough for the extra speed to matter in the real world.

Talk about instant AMD bashing. No one mentioned any current AMD CPUs as a superior option to current Intel CPUs.

OP just said he thinks with multithreaded games becoming more common place, it might be good to get something with more cores without any specific mention to AMD or Intel.

 

[Jenova69]

amd fx 6350 all the way. great price/performance

 

[Arizonian7]

DDR4 is next year.

I think if you already have DDR3 RAM and a relatively new CPU (Ivy Bridge+) then you should wait for Broadwell.

 

[dragonstongue]

I don't see it being early next year and even if it is, it will cost an arm and leg and possibly a kidney.

OP pointed out consoles have 8 cores and would be a good idea to possibly go with something that has more cores as it will eventually be used, I was pointing out the reality of things in my own way sorry if that bunched up your panties, AMD is the only one who has 8 core chips right now, and they are not a true 8 cores in the way they are built nor in the way they act, quad core 8 thread just like Intels chips Intel however does have 6 core 12 thread monsters not that I think that is a good idea.

The best performance for $ spent still appears to be the 2500k, 3570k, 3770k, 3950, for AMD it is 6350 and 8350 though 6350 is not quite as much grunt it also is better performance per watt and so forth, anyways.

Sandybridge, Ivy bridge, Sandy-E, some haswell chips, for AMD Piledriver otherwise known as Vishera is best bet. I still rock my 955 and still plays everything just fine even when I have it declocked.

 

[Dangman]

But I've been looking around lately and it seems like the 4xxx i5's and i7's are really not worth it at all,

Got a problem with this statement: Unless you're planning on buying used older Core i5s or already have an older Core i5 or plan on doing massive heavy overclocking, the 4xxx series i5s and i7s are worth the costs especially if you have nothing. You just wrote that your friend does not have a desktop anymore. As such, the 4xxx i5s and i7s are still viable purchases.

So I was thinking if something new and good will be coming out soon – within a year or so – then we could just put together a 2500k or 2600k build in the meantime, and then just do a simple mobo/cpu/ram upgrade. But I really don't know the current or upcoming state of things, so I'm looking for a bunch of advice.

Is a totally new architecture with DDR4 coming out any time soon? Does anything upcoming look promising for performance and cost?(Similar cost to what's available now, i.e. not a $1000 CPU)
What should I put together for him now? He wants to order everything within a week or two...

If there's something good coming in 2014 we'll probably do a 2600k build, but if the future is fairly uncertain, would it be smart to go for a newer series?

Yeah now would be an excellent time to go with an Intel Core i5 or Core i7 4xxx setup. The Intel Skylake CPUs that are supposedly coming out in 2015 will more than likely use rather expensive DDR4 RAM. It probably won't be until 2016 when we'll see a mainstream Intel CPU that'll be a cost-effective and worthwhile upgrade over a Haswell or even an Ivy Bridge setup. Or that DDR4 pricing might drop down to more reasonable levels. As for Haswell-E, not worth waiting for either due to the high costs and more than likely minor performance increases over Ivy-E or even Sandy -E

So in other words, nothing from Intel in 2014 is going to be worth waiting for, especially with the high costs of DDR4 RAM. Nor would it really be a cost-effective idea to go with a DDR4 setup until at least late 2015 to 2016.

 

[Ultima99]

Haswell-E and then Skylake will be the first DDR4 platforms.

I'm waiting for Skylake-E myself.

 

[samm]

I need to build my friend a new computer, and I've been trying to figure out what to go with for a while now, but I'm a bit stuck.
It's a case of him not having a desktop anymore so there's no choice of simple upgrade or waiting for something new in the future, and he's been wanting to do this for a while now.
He wants to build something really powerful, and I was thinking for a while we'd probably go for the latest i5 or i7, unless AMD had something good by the time we went to build it. But I've been looking around lately and it seems like the 4xxx i5's and i7's are really not worth it at all, and I don't want to waste his money.
So I was thinking if something new and good will be coming out soon – within a year or so – then we could just put together a 2500k or 2600k build in the meantime, and then just do a simple mobo/cpu/ram upgrade. But I really don't know the current or upcoming state of things, so I'm looking for a bunch of advice.

Is a totally new architecture with DDR4 coming out any time soon? Does anything upcoming look promising for performance and cost?(Similar cost to what's available now, i.e. not a $1000 CPU)
What should I put together for him now? He wants to order everything within a week or two...
If there's something good coming in 2014 we'll probably do a 2600k build, but if the future is fairly uncertain, would it be smart to go for a newer series?
He already got an awesome 2560x1600 monitor and a 7970 6GB cause he found a couple great deals, so I wouldn't want to throw something together that wouldn't bring out most of the glory of that setup. Though I also don't want to waste a bunch of extra money if something worth upgrading to is coming soon.
Also, we're likely going for a custom liquid cooling setup for nice cool overclocking, which would stick around through any upgrades.

So that was probably well too long-winded, but I hope it gets my point and situation across.
Thanks for any suggestions and advice!

My best solution at this time:
If you have sandy-bridge/ivybridge parts lying around or can get them dirt cheap I would get that up and running and wait it out for.

Reason 1: This Tick was not soo major
When Intel released Sandy-bridge the peformance increase was MAJOR. I mean the 2600K was on par with the previous nehalem Extreme $1000 parts. SO HUGE LEAP
When it comes to performance the update to Haswell (LGA1150) was modest at best compared to say Ivy or Sandy Bridge. This Tick was major in the mobile realm, not so much as the desktop space.

Reason 2: If the Tick, which is supposed to the major update, is minor what is the Tock gonna look like (which is really suppose to be a minor update)
The Tock which is delayed till 2H 2014 is going to be a minor update for the LGA1150. If the current LGA1150 chip is not that amazing, im sure Intel is not going to go ahead and release something contrary to their normal schedule (with almost no competition from AMD)

Reason 3: DDR4 is NOT GONNA BE HERE FOR A WHILE!!!!!
DDR4 is not launching for the LGA1150 period. DDR4 is launching with the successor of the LGA2011 platform (next year this time) and the Haswell E chips. The first mainstream board/platform will be Skylake. Which by current estimates will be about 2 years from now (unless something pops up in their schedule).

Reason 4: The longer you wait the older and more outdated your current parts get
If your friend has a 7970, by the time DDR4 rolls around that thing will be super outdated (nearly 3 generations old). If I were him, I`d build a medium system (say i5 2500K/3570K) and save myself a bundle. i`d pocket the change, and once skylane is out try to slowly buy parts and build another medium to high caliber system. This way your system is always current, and you have enough for a future build.

Hope this semi helps!

 

[dragonstongue]

2500/3570/6350/8350 all will be great performing.

And DDR4 will not magically make things omg super fast compared to current ddr3 platforms the bandwidth and latencies have to be taken into account, when ddr2 and ddr3 first came out it was the same thing, the first 1 or 2 speeds were slightly worse to on par performance wise with the previous gen, ddr4 will be no different, to have the newest best especially for someone who wants an ok system that doesn't add up, it would be like getting a sports car for a new driver or something.

Stick with current known good performers that have good performance now, don't worry about upcoming parts that may not be there when you expect them to be, and for that matter consider the pricing. Building now there is not 100% guarantee it will be at all compatible with ddr4, and ddr4 may not be a major performance improvement right off the bat, what can be 100% its going to be costly.

Current chips play current things very well, if anything in a year or 2 things will be even more streamlined and able to use resources that much more efficiently if anything AMD and many others are making sure it will happen this way they cannot afford and is getting near impossible to keep stuffing uber performance improvements in the hardware itself so the software is the next step which is happening as time passes on, many major devs have put a lot of effort into making sure this happens without a doubt.