New Build (probably) - going by Microcenter

O

OrangeWolf

Gawd
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
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I'm on vacation and will be going by the Houston Microcenter in the next few days. It's about a 7 hour drive from my house normally, so this is an opportunity that I probably want to take advantage of.

I had intended to build in Q3 when Kaby Lake came out given how close by that is. On the other hand I'm not sure it's worth waiting for, so hopefully I'll get opinions on that.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Multipurpose usage, but everything in a 'hobbyist' format. Gaming, yes. Photoshop, yes. Lots of web browsing. Often I'll have 20+ tabs of a browser open, GiMP/Photoshop in the background doing something, a game minimized in Steam, a dozen or so Word Documents or Powerpoints open, etc.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
<$1500, but I've no need or reason to spend it without a good reason to do so. I could also bump it up but I can't imagine why it would be worth it unless I got a new monitor... which might be a good idea, b/c frankly my eyesight is atrocious.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
Mississippi, USA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, MoBo, RAM, GPU, PSU, Case, Cooler, Fans. Maybe a monitor.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
In mid-2015 I purchased a Samsung 850 PRO 256GB & a 4TB Toshiba storage drive. I plan to reuse these, but if there's a reason to pick up yet another one then I'm all ears.

6) Will you be overclocking?
I doubt it. Everyone told me I would want to overclock my current system but I never did.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
I currently have 2 monitors. A Dell U2211h is the primary one at 1080p. The other one is an older Samsung model at... I think 1600x900. I've been thinking of replacing the smaller monitor with the U2211h and getting a 24" or 27" to replace it as the primary one.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
I'll be going through the Houston Microcenter in a few days and I'm trying to decide if I should pick up some parts then or not. If I do, then I'll build as soon as I can get my hands on a Nvidia 1070. If I decide not to purchase much at Microcenter I'll keep going as is for a while.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
I do NOT need Crossfire or SLI.
I do want USB 3.1 and SATA 6Gb/s.
I do want Onboard video - I'll be buying a 1070 but if I repurpose the build in the future it'd be nice to not need to find another GPU to stick in it.
I want mATX because of size considerations.
I don't know what a ton of that other stuff is and as such I'm not sure if I need it or not - advice appreciated.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
I don't have one but I can pick up Win10 64bit fairly cheaply, or I could buy a win7 key somewhere. This doesn't need to be included in the price of the build.​

My ideas at present:

CPU: i7 6700k vs i5 6600k vs i7 6800k vs Kaby Lake (wait) vs something else - I don't know what's the best option for me. I refuse to say that primary purpose of this rig will be gaming, but I do game 2-3 nights a week and will continue to do so. I also refuse to pay extra because technically my budget allows it. My AMD 965 x4 BE still meets all my needs just fine, and I want something else that will last 5-6 years without me feeling it.

MoBo: I want mATX. All the ATX cases are too large (I asked about that in this thread a few days ago), but I'm willing to entertain reasons why mATX is a bad idea. The Asus ROG Maximus VIII Gene seems to be the best of the batch, but it's also fairly costly. The ASRock Extreme4 seems to have similar features for half the cost and the Gigabyte Gaming5 is somewhere in the middle. This assumes I get 1151 as well, though I assume 2011 boards have similar variations. Comparison link.

I'd just as soon get a different chipset since I don't plan to overclock, but those seem to be crappier boards in general. I guess it's assumed that everyone who builds as a hobby wants to tinker with overclocking these days. What makes the ASUS worth that much more?

RAM: Probably G.SKILL 16GB (2 x 8GB) Ripjaws V DDR4 3200, though I should check at Microcenter to see if there's a sell on something similar. Would I notice a difference if I went up to 32GB? Or barring that, is there a reason to go faster or get a different timing or anything else?

GPU: Nvidia 1070 when it comes out. No reason for the 1080 imo, even if it fits into my budget. Until my Radeon 6850 started to overheat it still managed everything reasonably well.

PSU: Modular. 650? 750? 80+ Gold. I had a Corsair last time and it was great, so perhaps that again.

Case: I like the Corsair 350D I think. Reviews I've read are positive, and it's the largest case that will reasonably fit where I want it to fit. Open to suggestions otherwise though.


So yeah, in summary... I'm trying to figure out if I want to buy parts when I go by Microcenter in a few days or if I want to just pick up a GPU for my current rig (see sig) and wait for Kaby Lake or something else. So I need to figure out which parts I want (CPU and MoBo in particular) then have a look at prices.

Thanks in advance for any advice... particularly about which CPU would be my best bet, and which things make one similar MoBo so much better than other ones (ASUS vs ASRock prices for their mATX high end options).

Rough cost estimate at the moment:
CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 8M ($345.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock Z170M Extreme4 ($101.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.SKILL 16GB (2 x 8GB) Ripjaws V Series ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Nvidia 1070 @ ~$450
Power Supply: EVGA 650W 220-GS-0650-V1 ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 350D CC-9011029-WW ($99.89 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 ($28.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $1,181.82
Price may include shipping, rebates, promotions, and tax
Generated by PC Hound

 
Well my thoughts are that you would see a huge jump over your Phenom x4, with Skylake or Broadwell-E. Personally the more cores are better like the 6800K(6c 12t) for $399 right now, but the quad core Skylakes are nice and not sure the $120 premium and going 2011v3 is really warranted. Also for DDR4 I would get the 16GB sticks, just so later you can not be tempted, for example newegg has a 32GB kit for $104 G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2400 (PC4 19200) Intel Z170 Platform / Intel X99 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-2400C15D-32GVR - Newegg.com. Otherwise a sweet looking build :)

Have you consider looking at ITX? For example you could so the Corsair 250D, and have room for an optical and 2 3.5 and a 2.5. You would need to change your board out to something like ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII IMPACT LGA 1151 Intel Z170 Intel USB 3.1 USB 3.0 U.2 Mini ITX Intel Gaming Motherboard - Newegg.com, and maybe rethink the cpu cooler as I think it will not fit.
 
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Thanks rhansen5_99!

I'm sure any new CPU will be a nice upgrade over my old one, but since I plan to use the build again for 6 years I want to be satisfied the first time (like I was with the 965 BE 5-6 years ago). That said you make a good point - the 6700k is sort of the best of both worlds it seems like. Fewer cores than the 6800k, but the hyperthreading makes it a cut above the 6600k.

Also the RAM you linked is 2400 instead of 3200 - am I wrong about seeing an advantage up to 3200? I'd read that somewhere but wasn't sure where.

I did consider going for ITX. I actually wanted to at first, though I was concerned about working in such a small space give my inexperience. I also wasn't sure if I'd want something like a sound card at some point and not have room for it. I should look into it again though, especially since space is a consideration. I just didn't want to shoot myself in the foot in terms of what I can do with the computer or end up without enough space.

Also is it safe to use a 6700k without a cpu cooler? I was under the impression that they didn't ship with stock fans or anything like my old one did.

Thanks again!
 
Oh for the cpu cooler I was thinking that it would not fit the 250d, not the 350D you had listed, it should be good in that one and is a great bang for the buck cooler.

As far as the DDR4, I don't remember exactly where I came across the info, but I think for Skylake there is a significant drop of in tangible gains after about 2666MHZ. At least with real world stuff. For example you can check out this benchmark of a few games DDR4 Memory Scaling on Intel Z170 - Finding The Best DDR4 Memory Kit Speed - Page 5 of 6 - Legit Reviews, and very little difference in there. But by all means if you are planning on using it for an Adobe Scratch drive or something it makes sense.

For the mATX form factor, I personally have always been a sound card guy from way back to the SB16 ISA card, so I understand what you are wanting :) I would say it is probably the only thing I miss with ITX, but the internal Realtek 1150/ 897 chipsets are not complete garbage like the integrated cards of old.
 
Okay going to say this before my recommendation.

NO, it is NOT okay to use a CPU without the cooler. PERIOD!



PC Hound Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 8M ($345.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASUS Z170M-PLUS ($119.98 @ NCIX)
Memory: G.SKILL 32GB (2 x 16GB) TridentZ Series ($204.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 750W SS-750KM3 ($131.99 @ NCIX)
Storage: SAMSUNG 512GB 950 PRO MZ-V5P512BW ($319 @ B&H)
Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 350D CC-9011029-WW ($99.89 @ Amazon)
Total: $1,221.84
Price may include shipping, rebates, promotions, and tax
Generated by PC Hound
Strangely enough, it's actually $6 less than the above price ordering everything out of Newegg.



Okay, going to MicroCenter will shave about $50 off your CPU price.
I'd recommend springing for the M.2 SSD, as it has higher throughput than your 850 does and is twice the size.
You can use the 850 as a secondary drive for gaming and the like (will cut down on queue depths for the controllers on both drives), as well as tossing in the 4GB HD for bulk storage.
The CPU *edit* does NOT *edit* come with a cooler by default.
If you want to really go with something beyond that, I'd say splurge the $100 for an Corsair Hydro H100i or H105 (though the fit on this could be very tight and you'll need to offset the cooler forward so it doesn't interfere with the CPU fan).
 
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Thanks Chas - you say the 850 Pro you linked has twice the throughput of the 950 Pro I'm using. Where did you get that number? I'm not saying you're wrong (you're probably not), but it's something I need to know about so I can pick out stuff better in the future. I'm guessing that mine wouldn't work in an M2 slot?

Good recs regardless otherwise. Since a few people have mentioned that 32gb will show improvement over 16gb I guess I will go ahead and pick that up regardless - just like how I was glad I went for 8gb instead of 4gb back when I built the current rig.

I'd never personally use a CPU without a cooler at all, at least not in a custom high performance rig, but I did see a few people saying things along these lines online: link

If it comes with one that will make me feel better though. I might use the stock cooler until if/when I decide to overclock and upgrade at that point.
 
On another note... If something I buy at Microcenter doesn't work, do they have a return policy I can take advantage of from 7 hours away? I can't believe I only just now thought of that. Most builds end up with something needing an RMA don't they, damn. hm.
 
For the 850 pro that Chas posted vs yours being way faster is mainly because of the interface bus for the ssd. With your existing Sata drive you are limited by the bus of SATA 2 (6Gbps) maybe 600MB/s on a really good day, where as the NVME m.2 drives are a direct Pci express link to the motherboard, so they have way more bandwidth, and currently the drives top out well over 1GB/s in speed. So in reality the actually flash memory between the two drives might be very similar but you cant get access to that speed.

To be clear, to the best of my knowledge, the 6700k does not come with an Intel provided heat sink (which is kind of crap if you ask me), so if you go that route you will have to get something.

If you are 7 hrs away from MC, I would really just cash in on the CPU+mobo bundle, because as far as I know their policies are in store only, but there is a MC in Dallas too if you are located more that way.
 
rhansen5_99 said:
If you are 7 hrs away from MC, I would really just cash in on the CPU+mobo bundle, because as far as I know their policies are in store only, but there is a MC in Dallas too if you are located more that way.
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Nah, I'm in Mississippi. The Houston one at 7 hours away is by far the closest to me that I know of.

Thanks for the info on the SSD. Speaking of my SSD, I found myself irritated that some programs (like Steam screenshots) stuck things on it without allowing me an option of saving it elsewhere. That really got on my nerves. /random ramble.

I'm not going to regret not waiting for Kaby Lake yeah? I'm assuming once that i7 is out it will cost a fair chunk more anyway... but it's not like I'm in a huge hurry, it just turned out to be convenient microcenter time.
 
Well if history is any indication, or unless Amd comes out with an i7 killer in Zen, then take a look at the i7 920 vs a 6700k. Basically took intel 8 years to get double the performance out of the cpu. But if there is a constant in technology there will always be something faster on the horizon.
 
OrangeWolf said:
Thanks Chas - you say the 850 Pro you linked has twice the throughput of the 950 Pro I'm using. Where did you get that number? I'm not saying you're wrong (you're probably not), but it's something I need to know about so I can pick out stuff better in the future. I'm guessing that mine wouldn't work in an M2 slot?
Click to expand...

No, the 950 Pro has more than twice the throughput of the 850 pro you have now (your original post says "850".

On 850 Pros, Reads are up to 550 MB/Sec and writes are up to 520.
SAMSUNG 850 PRO 2.5" 512GB SATA III 3-D Vertical Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-7KE512BW - Newegg.com

On 950 Pros, reads are up to 2500 MB/Sec and writes are up to 1500 (on a 512GB drive).
SAMSUNG 950 PRO M.2 512GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V5P512BW - Newegg.com



Good recs regardless otherwise. Since a few people have mentioned that 32gb will show improvement over 16gb I guess I will go ahead and pick that up regardless - just like how I was glad I went for 8gb instead of 4gb back when I built the current rig.
Click to expand...

If you have the budget for it now, I recommend you go with more memory. Not sure if the 950 offers R.A.P.I.D. support, but if it does, you'll want more memory anyhow.

I'd never personally use a CPU without a cooler at all, at least not in a custom high performance rig, but I did see a few people saying things along these lines online: link
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Ah crap. Major brain-fartage on my part. The 6700K does NOT come with a default cooler. My apologies (editing my original post to excise that).
 
OrangeWolf said:
On another note... If something I buy at Microcenter doesn't work, do they have a return policy I can take advantage of from 7 hours away? I can't believe I only just now thought of that. Most builds end up with something needing an RMA don't they, damn. hm.
Click to expand...

A dead CPU or board would need to be brought back. I don't think they have any sort of mail-in policy.
 
OrangeWolf said:
Nah, I'm in Mississippi. The Houston one at 7 hours away is by far the closest to me that I know of.

Thanks for the info on the SSD. Speaking of my SSD, I found myself irritated that some programs (like Steam screenshots) stuck things on it without allowing me an option of saving it elsewhere. That really got on my nerves. /random ramble.

I'm not going to regret not waiting for Kaby Lake yeah? I'm assuming once that i7 is out it will cost a fair chunk more anyway... but it's not like I'm in a huge hurry, it just turned out to be convenient microcenter time.
Click to expand...

Okay if the ONLY reason you're going to Houston is to buy the CPU and motherboard? Don't waste your time.

If it's 7 hours away, you're talking roughly a 900 mile round trip. That's anywhere from $80-120 bucks in gas depending on what you drive.

All you're saving at Micro-Center is maybe $50-75.

At that point, it's just more economical (and cheaper if there are issues with the hardware requiring returns/RMA) to buy online.

Also, honestly, if you keep going "wait 3-6 months", something better is ALWAYS going to come along.

If you're looking to build NOW, the 6700K is your best bang for the buck at the top end of performance. You are getting a quad core, hyperthreading chip whose BASE frequency is 4Ghz (turbo is 4.2) and that's proven to be fairly decent at overclocking.

Basically all of the "better" chips run at lower clock speeds and have more cores. That's really not going to perform better in most games until DX12 becomes the default for most in-use games. And even then, it's iffy.
 
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Nah, Chas. I'm in Texas on vacation and I have to drive through Houston to get home. That's actually why I made the thread - because I'd planned to wait until later this year to build, but since I'm driving past a microcenter (that I won't be back to for years) I wanted to sort out my parts and see what the savings would be if I decided to build earlier than anticipated.

Stopping at IKEA (also only available after a 6-7 hours drive), Microcenter, and a shopping center for the day there to pick up some items I can't get in MS without ordering, and some things (such as hiking gear for Yellowstone) I like to see in person.

Thanks for all your comments.
 
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