• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

New build advice - trying to future proof

A

AdeptusMechanicus

n00b
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
10
Hello, I have been using my current build for 3 years now and I believe it is time to start fresh. I am not a hardcore enthusiast in that I don't keep up with the constant upgrades in PC hardware, however I have been researching the past few weeks. My goal is to build a computer which will last me another 3 years. I use my computer almost exclusively for gaming. Price is not an issue but it seems logical to not go overkill on every piece of hardware. The one area I would like the absolute best performance from is my GPU. I will list below the hardware I'd like to use followed by my reasons for using them. This is where I would like your input.

CPU: Q9450 Reason: I'd like a conservative OC at 3.6ghz. Also in the attempt to future proof, the viability of quad core.

GPU: 9800GX2 Reason: I play at 1920x1080 resolution on a 32" and I was leaning towards using a P35 mobo so this would be the highest performance GPU for a single slot. In the attempt to future proof, the EVGA 9800GX2 I believe has an extended 120day step up program.

Mobo: P35(Still researching brand) Reason: Offers all the features I would need. I do not want to bother with SLI.

RAM: 4Gb DDR2 1066 Reason: I will be using 64bit Vista

Power supply: Corsair HX620 Reason: Should be enough?

Cooling: I would like to use water cooling this time around and it is an area where I have little to no knowledge. I've seen some pretty extreme setups for what seemed to be the same goal as mine; to cool the CPU and GPU. Things like people sticking 2 120x3 radiators or even 3 radiators along with multiple pumps. I'm assuming they cool each piece of hardware individually. It just seems a bit overkill to me. Wouldn't a single 120x3 radiator and pump be enough??

I'm really glad I found this forum and look forward to your advice. Thanks in advance.
 
Go with a Q6600 for $180 at Frys.com. If you pair this with DDR2 800 RAM and a good heatsink like a Thermalright Ultra 120 you can hit 3.6ghz. A P35 mobo is good. Maybe a DFI BloodIron P35-T2RL mobo to O/C that Q6600. Corsair HX620 PS is enough for that 1 x 9800GX2 video card.
 
For mobo, checkout the Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R for $130. It supports @ least the E8400 wolfdale without a bios update(if you need that like I do), or checkout the EP35-DS3P which has a couple other things I dont know of though. As for CPU cooler, TRUE....Thermal Ultra 120 Extreme and a good 120mm fan on it, is what I'd recommend since cost doesn't seem to be much of an issue for ya ;).
 
Here are some options for a P35-based board.

Danny Bui said:
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Intel P35 Motherboard - $90
MSI P35 Neo2-FR Intel P35 Motherboard - $112
DFI BloodIron P35-T2RL Intel P35 Motherboard - $120
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R Intel P35 Motherboard - $125
DFI LanParty DK P35-T2RS Intel P35 Motherboard - $140
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P Intel P35 Motherboard - $144
Abit IP35 Pro Intel P35 Motherboard - $170
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS4 Intel P35 Motherboard - $170
Gigabyte GA-EX38-DS4 Intel X38 Motherboard - $207

Just to help you out: If you don't need RAID, more than 4 SATA ports, check out the DS3L. If you need 5 SATA ports, 2 eSATA ports, and a second PCI-E x16 port, then get the Neo2-Fr. If you want heavy overclocking abilities and six SATA ports, check out the Blood Iron. If you like the BloodIron but want significantly better overclock stability, go for the LanParty. If you want 8 SATA ports, RAID, and legacy ports and high overclocks, than the DS3R is a good choice. If you want the DS3R but need Firewire and a second PCI-E x16 port, then go for the DS3P. If you want something that can overclock pretty damn high along with, RAID, eSATA ports and firewire connections, than the IP35 Pro. If you like the DS3P but want better cooling for overclocking, then go for the DS4.
Click to expand...

Here are some recommendations for some CPU coolers for the Q9450:

Danny Bui said:
Scythe SCNJ-1100P Ninja HSF - $36
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle HSF - $37
Tuniq Tower 120 HSF - $45
ZEROtherm Nirvana NV120 120mm HSF - $50
Thermalright Ultima-90 HSF - $46 & Panaflo FBA09A12M 92mm Fan - $3
Noctua NH-U12P HSF - $60
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme HSF - $57 & Scythe S-Flex SFF21E 120MM Case Fan - $14
Click to expand...

EVGA's video cards have a 90-day step-up policy, but that's only if you've registered your card beforehand. Additionally, the G92 (512MB) 8800GTS and the 9800GTX are capable of playing games at a 1920x1200 resolution.

The Corsair HX620 is SLI rated, so it should have enough power for your setup plus the 9800GX2 (which is two GPUs on one card).

Out of curiosity, which monitor and case were you (planning on) using?

There aren't a lot of us here (in General Hardware) that know enough about water cooling to point you in the right direction. You may be better off looking for answers in the Overclocking & Cooling forum.
 
Adeptus Mechanicus eh?

A Warhammer 40,000 fan are we? :)

Anyway, it looks like you're very covered here. Try to heed everyone's advice here so far.
 
I generally just skip the advice and tell them how it's gonna be. -puts his proverbial foot down- (;))
 
To each his own. :)

Just curious, what hard drive will you be using with this PC?
 
Tiraides: I'm using a Sharp 32" G3PU as my PC monitor and TV. I'm planning to use a Silverstone TJ07.

Danny Bui: 320gb WD SE16 x2 in RAID 0

More questions: Using a Q9450, i'd need 450mhz fsb to run it at 3.6ghz. Would you recommend using DDR800 and overclocking or DDR1066 and underclocking?
 
I'd find some DDR2-800 rated at CAS4 and run it at CAS5 OCed, or if it's cheaper, just some DDR2-1000 or 1066 rated sticks. Depends.
 
For the Q9450, all you need is DDR2 1000 RAM. Some math:

Stated FSB/4 = Actual FSB
Multiplier x Actual FSB = CPU Speed
2 x Actual FSB = RAM Speed

Q9450:
Multi x Actual FSB, RAM Speed = Clock Speed
8 × 333Mhz = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-667 <<== Stock speeds
8 × 400Mhz = 3.2Ghz, DDR2-800 <<== Easy OC
8 × 450Mhz = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-900 <<== Good OC
8 × 500Mhz = 4.0Ghz, DDR2-1000 <<== Excellent OC

I recommend this set:
G.SKILL F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ 2 x 2GB DDR2 1000 RAM - $90
 
AdeptusMechanicus said:
More questions: Using a Q9450, i'd need 450mhz fsb to run it at 3.6ghz. Would you recommend using DDR800 and overclocking or DDR1066 and underclocking?
Click to expand...

Tiraides responded to a similar question I had in another thread (a Q9550 and 450MHz), and he suggested 1000MHz. No need to go up to 1066MHz which is more expensive. Taking silent-circuit's answer to your question into account, I'd say that at least you don't need 1066MHz.
 
Also, since no one else has addressed the watercooling questions -- DangerDen has a 9800GX2 block out now. I'd go with that and a dedicated 3x120 radiator or at very least 2x120 + pump and t-line or reservoir (separate loop) for the GPU.

You need at least a 2x120, ideally a 3x120 radiator for the quad core by itself if OCing to 3.6Ghz, + pump. The D-Tek Fuzion CPU block with a quad nozzle kit is the current sweetheart of the watercooling world.

I'd recommend Swiftech QuietPower MCR-320QP radiators, or 220s if you don't have space in your chosen case, though as a first time watercooler I recommend a /huge/ case. You will want plenty of room to work in there.

Laing D5 Varios are, as far as I'm concerned, pretty much the only pumps worth bothering with.

The bad news? The DangerDen block for the 9800GX2 is $210 direct from them. The radiators are ~$45-50 each, so another $100 there. The Laing D5 Vario runs $75 and you need 2 of those, so $150. $15 per loop for a t-fitting and fillport, $30 total there. The D-Tek Fuzion GPU block + Pro Mount kit + nozzle kit runs ~$80. Add 15 feet of Masterkleer 7/16" ID tubing (push this over 1/2" barbs for a super tight fit) and you're up to... around $600. Then add ~$40 for radiator grills. Call it $650. It's a lot of cash -- how bad do you want to watercool, and why exactly?
 
Cash isn't an issue but if water cooling is absolutely unnecessary then I have no problem trashing the idea. I do want to OC both the CPU and GPU so I guess you could argue whether a 9450@3.6ghz really needs water cooling. I would think the GPU would definately benefit from water since to my knowledge there is no aftermarket VGA cooler for it yet.

silent-circuit said:
Also, since no one else has addressed the watercooling questions -- DangerDen has a 9800GX2 block out now. I'd go with that and a dedicated 3x120 radiator or at very least 2x120 + pump and t-line or reservoir (separate loop) for the GPU.

You need at least a 2x120, ideally a 3x120 radiator for the quad core by itself if OCing to 3.6Ghz, + pump. The D-Tek Fuzion CPU block with a quad nozzle kit is the current sweetheart of the watercooling world.

I'd recommend Swiftech QuietPower MCR-320QP radiators, or 220s if you don't have space in your chosen case, though as a first time watercooler I recommend a /huge/ case. You will want plenty of room to work in there.

Laing D5 Varios are, as far as I'm concerned, pretty much the only pumps worth bothering with.

The bad news? The DangerDen block for the 9800GX2 is $210 direct from them. The radiators are ~$45-50 each, so another $100 there. The Laing D5 Vario runs $75 and you need 2 of those, so $150. $15 per loop for a t-fitting and fillport, $30 total there. The D-Tek Fuzion GPU block + Pro Mount kit + nozzle kit runs ~$80. Add 15 feet of Masterkleer 7/16" ID tubing (push this over 1/2" barbs for a super tight fit) and you're up to... around $600. Then add ~$40 for radiator grills. Call it $650. It's a lot of cash -- how bad do you want to watercool, and why exactly?
Click to expand...
 
It'd help, yes, but I don't think that you're going to see much return outside of benchmarks OCing the GPU much. No, I don't believe there are any aftermarket air cooling solutions for the 9800GX2 yet.

You can probably get to 3.6Ghz on air without too much trouble. Higher than that and water will prove beneficial, and if you run a large radiator you can likely make things quieter with water... but if noise isn't a major concern, or you aren't looking for major OCs, aftermarket air does very well anymore.
 
AdeptusMechanicus said:
I do want to OC both the CPU and GPU so I guess you could argue whether a 9450@3.6ghz really needs water cooling.
Click to expand...

I've been trying to find articles/reviews about overclocking a Q9550, which is only different from the Q9450 by a half-step (8 vs. 8.5). I've only really found info regarding the Q9450, and one thing that sticks out is that for these 45nm quad-core CPUs, you don't want to go over 1.4v for running 24/7, since their life expectancy when o/c'ed seems to be lower than the 65nm quads. I'm just bringing this up as something to take into account, and hopefully one of the more knowledgeable people here can explain it better.
 
Ah yes, thanks for reminding me. Noise is a concern. Could you explain the reason for OC'ed GPUs not making much of a difference? Is it that they're not as overclockable as CPUs?

silent-circuit said:
It'd help, yes, but I don't think that you're going to see much return outside of benchmarks OCing the GPU much. No, I don't believe there are any aftermarket air cooling solutions for the 9800GX2 yet.

You can probably get to 3.6Ghz on air without too much trouble. Higher than that and water will prove beneficial, and if you run a large radiator you can likely make things quieter with water... but if noise isn't a major concern, or you aren't looking for major OCs, aftermarket air does very well anymore.
Click to expand...
 
Danny Bui said:
That's precisely it.
Click to expand...

Yep. Perfect example -- I can get my 8800 GTXs up to around 675Mhz core, 1620Mhz shader, 1000Mhz RAM. That's up from 575Mhz core 1350Mhz shader 900Mhz RAM, stock. Sure, it's noticeable, but not nearly so much as 2.4Ghz to 3.6Ghz on the quad, or my personal favorite, the 2.13Ghz to 3.8Ghz OC I managed on my E6420.

8800 GTX:
575 to 675 is a 17.4% OC.
1350 to 1620 is a 20% OC
900 to 1000 is a 11% OC

compared to

X3220 quad core:
2400 to 3600 is a 50% OC

E6420 dual core:
2130 to 3800 is a 78.4% OC (and I think I was running up against FSB limits on the board I was running at the time rather than the limits of the chip -- 475Mhz FSB is very high for a 680i)


It's pretty easy to see, I think. Some of the reason for this is because GPUs generally can't be overvolted with the same ease as CPUs and their cooling is usually not as good as CPUs. That aside, even when hardmodded for more voltage pretty much all GPUs do not respond to the voltage nearly as well as a modern CPU would.

I am voltage limited, no heat limited, with my 8800 GTXs -- they load in the mid to low 50s C and will go unstable if I move the core clock up above 675Mhz, and hard lock immediately if I try to run 708Mhz. (The 8800 GTX clock generation system results in strange gaps in available clocks like this)

I never should've sold that E6420... great little chip.
 
Looks like you're all set here. What revision are those WD3200AAKS drives? If they're the old version, you might want to upgrade to the newer revisions, since they use 320GB platters. They also have the new WD6400AAKS which is just as fast.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top