New Aqua Computer goodness

[Giblet Plus!]

Come on man...be real here! whats the problem with SNT and AC ???? Dan is one of the nicest guys i know and AC products own [H]ard kore!

BTW...How do u know if there crappy products? when was the last time u wrote a review on AC products or SNT systems?....man i think u got issues and u need to have your dome checked for cracks!

Dan (if that is nt|Mods's name) has not once answered my questions on these forums. He resorts to interjecting lame things like "owned" when others (like yourself) attempt to answer for him.

I am sorry I do not "own [H]ard kore!" like Dan does.

 

[stumpy]

Dan (if that is nt|Mods's name) has not once answered my questions on these forums. He resorts to interjecting lame things like "owned" when others (like yourself) attempt to answer for him.

I am sorry I do not "own [H]ard kore!" like Dan does.

I am sorry to say that more than a few members of this forum do not care for your remarks as well Giblet....I have even been told this by a moderator, so watch out.

 

[stumpy]

What size tubing is that?

It is not 3/8" ID, it is smaller than that. ID is the standard way of comparing WC tubing size.

What are the OD and ID sizes?

I know that the ID on that tubing is 6mm...no one said it was 3/8" ID.

 

[stumpy]

BTW...How do u know if there crappy products? when was the last time u wrote a review on AC products or SNT systems?....

Giblet Plus! , since you have expressed your opinion about aqua-computer's products being crappy without any real reasons in so many threads, I'd like to have a detailed explanation...for once. As I'm sure you have had no personal experience with these waterblocks, I'd just like to hear how you came to your opinions, not neccessarily just to discount your reasons, I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Giblet Plus!]

Giblet Plus! , since you have expressed your opinion about aqua-computer's products being crappy without any real reasons in so many threads, I'd like to have a detailed explanation...for once. As I'm sure you have had no personal experience with these waterblocks, I'd just like to hear how you came to your opinions, not neccessarily just to discount your reasons, I'm genuinely interested.

My main complaint is that their products are marketed as being high performance while they are not.

A typical aqua computer system compromises performance in several ways:

Many 90 degree fittings are used, which hurt flowrate. In any watercooling system, even one that is not designed with high flow in mind, more flowrate IS ALWAYS better.

The radiators are not designed to utilize shrouds.

The machined fan gratings, which everyone seems to love, are highly restrictive to airflow and serve no real purpose other than to cover up sloppy cutting of fan holes.

The actual waterblocks appear to be decent, however most of the designs used are nothing special compared to modern designs like the white water, cascade, rbx and tdx.

The only "modern" waterblock on the site has shortcomings:

Note the single outlet. A single outlet with that design means the the flow through the microchannels will be biased towards the direction of the outlet. Very little flow will go the direction opposite the outlet barb and back through the outside channels.

Also note the "jet sprayer" on the inlet. A design like that will not work well with a microchannel block. With a micro channel block, a small slit (like the one on the white water) will work better because it allows better flow through the microchannels. A sprayer like that would work better if it had a small open area with a textured surface by the core to "spray" against (like on the rbx and tdx)

That is an inefficient design.

It is quite possible to build a high performance system with 3/8" ID (internal diameter) tubing. However, aqua computer systems do not accomplish this.

 

[[S]nt|Mods]

Okay, that does it!

[Stay tuned for additional comments, same CRAPED IN thread, same CRAPED IN forum]

-Dan

 

[Giblet Plus!]

Okay, that does it!

[Stay tuned for additional comments, same CRAPED IN thread, same CRAPED IN forum]

-Dan

could you respond to my complaints with your products? my complaints with your attitude here?

(20:36:59) Erik: hi, this is giblet from the hardforum, i would like a few words
(20:36:59) SNTmods logged in.
(20:37:21) SNTmods: I would prefer against it
(20:37:35) Erik: ?

Why are you so scared of having a technical discussion?

 

[stumpy]

One thing, Dan's system may use a lot of 90 degree fittings, but it's not fair to generalize that to only aqua computer systems. I don't have any on my watercooling, and I would say that there are people who don't use AC and still use 90 degree fittings....

I would have to agree with you in that aqua computer's earlier waterblocks are not design revolutionizing , but with every new block design they release it seems to be getting better. I am looking forward to their future waterblocks in anticipation.

I do not agree with you that these products are being marketed as "high-performance" . Obviously, everyone wants their product to look the best, but as Dan is the only one actively marketing these blocks in the US, I would not say that he's claiming these systems are something they are not. He has never once said to me - These blocks will perform better than ...blah blah... etc. I made a thread about my watercooling, but I didn't say it was better than yours.

I can definitely tell you're becoming an ME..... Although I am a Jr. in ME and haven't adapted their "mentality" yet...

And as far as aqua-computer systems being for people with too much money, I spent < 150 on my entire setup .

 

[ShoNuff]

"Prove me wrong" with your highly overclocked aqua computer setup

Why? There is a much bigger issue here. It's obviously not AC water-cooling equipment.

 

[[S]nt|Mods]

could you respond to my complaints with your products? my complaints with your attitude here?



Why are you so scared of having a technical discussion?

Now you are just being a pill. I have to ask myself now if it's really worth debating this subject with someone who's attitude closely resembles that of a child. Havent you been warned before of your attitude several times in these forums? You don't have to answer that as I already know.

If anyone else would like to ask me questions regarding the use of "alternative to U.S." water cooling systems they are welcomed to do so. Take care!

-Dan

 

[Giblet Plus!]

Please respond to my post with technical explanations for the design features of your products. Criticizing a design IS NOT CRAPPING ON A THREAD.

My main complaint is that their products are marketed as being high performance while they are not.

A typical aqua computer system compromises performance in several ways:

Many 90 degree fittings are used, which hurt flowrate. In any watercooling system, even one that is not designed with high flow in mind, more flowrate IS ALWAYS better.

The radiators are not designed to utilize shrouds.

The machined fan gratings, which everyone seems to love, are highly restrictive to airflow and serve no real purpose other than to cover up sloppy cutting of fan holes.

The actual waterblocks appear to be decent, however most of the designs used are nothing special compared to modern designs like the white water, cascade, rbx and tdx.

The only "modern" waterblock on the site has shortcomings:

Note the single outlet. A single outlet with that design means the the flow through the microchannels will be biased towards the direction of the outlet. Very little flow will go the direction opposite the outlet barb and back through the outside channels.

Also note the "jet sprayer" on the inlet. A design like that will not work well with a microchannel block. With a micro channel block, a small slit (like the one on the white water) will work better because it allows better flow through the microchannels. A sprayer like that would work better if it had a small open area with a textured surface by the core to "spray" against (like on the rbx and tdx)

That is an inefficient design.

It is quite possible to build a high performance system with 3/8" ID (internal diameter) tubing. However, aqua computer systems do not accomplish this.

 

[Giblet Plus!]

I can definitely tell you're becoming an ME..... Although I am a Jr. in ME and haven't adapted their "mentality" yet...

maybe this forum is not meant for people with engineering based mentalities...

appearances seem to be the driving force behind watercooling systems here.

 

[stumpy]

I'm not going to comment on the design because I don't manufacture the blocks, I don't have the expertise yet, and frankly I don't care. I base my opinion off of the performance of the installed block, not the design. It's just a waste of my time to research it unless I'm interested in changing my block or system, and I guess I'm just not that interested.

If you're looking for more engineering based discussions, head over to pro/cooling . This forum seems to mostly discuss performance of products and wc systems, rather than design critique.



And appearance is a very valid concern to me when it comes to watercooling.

 

[Giblet Plus!]

If you're looking for more engineering based discussions, head over to pro/cooling . This forum seems to mostly discuss performance of products and wc systems, rather than design critique.

I usually frequent ocforums, and sometimes procooling. I've been stopping in here to update my worklog.

 

[BitchBreaker]

Hey Dan hows the weather back in cali? im so ready to come back allready,i might have to stop in SF to see ya and show off Project Hood Rich I and i hope to have the team started on Hood Rich II by that time also,while im there ill test fit the AC blocks and the gold plated copper tube for them,Maby i can pit the awsome P4 u sold me (3.0c @ 3.75 prime stable at stock V ) after that killer A64 while im there



Edit: The cpu is on stock Intel air the new HP model.

 

[[S]nt|Mods]

Everything is fine all things considered I guess Mr. Breaker. Im just trying to get along but I thought I'd post the better pics I promised for this group. Enjoy!

-Dan

 

[SelRahc]

Giblet,

First, I do not own an aqua system yet. If / When I get one, I will be sure to compare them between other higher flow systems. However, I just thought I would point a few things out... not taking either sides here so please don't take it as such.....

The radiators are not designed to utilize shrouds.

I had this same worry. I would have wanted to use a shroud, until I talked with people that own the rad, and took a closer look for myself. The photos on dan's site of the rads are dark, so it is hard to tell, but there is actually is a gap on 1 side between the mounting edge and where the rad actually starts. Looks to be about 1/2" or so. I had to brighten the image to see that.

A shroud probably isnt needed, because air can freely get to all points on the rad. I think that was how it was designed to be. Shroudless. I haven't tried to install a shroud since I don't own an ac system, but Id guess you probably could fit one onto it if you wanted to. I haven't seen anyone here complain about not being able to... if you have any links to where someone HAS I would love to get them. I like getting all the information I can get on this stuff. I don't know if I would use one or not until I took a look at it first hand.

The machined fan gratings, which everyone seems to love, are highly restrictive to airflow and serve no real purpose other than to cover up sloppy cutting of fan holes.

These are alot less restrictive some fan grills out there i've seen. Not the best but not the worse im sure. I highly doubt these restrict any more or less than some of the other grills. But like people have said, if you don't like it, don't use it right? I'm not sure if I would use it or not at this point. Its a clean looking fan grill though.

Many 90 degree fittings are used, which hurt flowrate. In any watercooling system, even one that is not designed with high flow in mind, more flowrate IS ALWAYS better.

I'm not going to disagree with you there. Less is more as far as bends go in any water cooling system hehe. At least thats what I would think. Again, I have not done any tests here to see if this would adversly affect the performance of that system. You would think it would slow the flow rate down.

I do notice though that the default connectors for aqua blocks is stright fittings, not the bent ones. They are an option but not required. It just gives the user a choice. I for one would go with the stright whenever possible. I think its great that you at least have a choice. You can get the bent if you want to ^_^

Also, I'm not sure how much more you really could hurt the flow rate. Its already slow as molassas. ^_^

The actual waterblocks appear to be decent, however most of the designs used are nothing special compared to modern designs like the white water, cascade, rbx and tdx.
The only "modern" waterblock on the site has shortcomings:

That is an inefficient design.

Again, I haven't tested that block. It very may well be inefficent. But.. um... That isnt an AquaComputer waterblock. So all of the above problems with that block don't matter. That is from a company called Alphacool. Not related as far as I know. Yes its sold on dan's site, but this thread isnt talking about that product or its line. It's talking about AquaComputer stuff. So why bring it into the conversation?

It is quite possible to build a high performance system with 3/8" ID (internal diameter) tubing. However, aqua computer systems do not accomplish this.

I just don't know that yet. I doubt you do either. I have yet to see a good comparison of AC products to other major brands. However in the few threads I have read, most people agree it may not outcool some of the other WB's out there. I would have agreed before as well, but I really don't know myself. AC items have a smaller flow and tube design. They are also very clean looking, but a simple design overall. However k.i.s.s. is often a good thing. A block doesn't need to be complex to work well.

They seem to perform well from what their owners have said. I don't think anyone said they were better than any other system out there. I know I won't until I have tested the product myself. I would really love to see a good review between ac and other products. Heck a good low-flow to high-flow compare would be good too.

As for technical questions, I don't know why you would have had a bad experiance with getting your answers. Dan has been most helpful in giving me the answers I need, when I have asked them... and he can tell you I have asked alot lol. (sick of them yet dan?) If there are any problems between him and you, please take them to PM or something Make your own "Crap on Dan" thread if you like. I'll be sure to keep an eye on it. However, this thread is about AC items in general, not people's experiance with Dan. He just sells them, among other products.

This post was about aqua products in general. Dan did not start this thread to advertise his store. Actually he didnt start this thread period. Several people asked him for pics of his sickrig system (myself included) so he added it here, where people were already talking about Aqua Computer products in the first place. I see nothing wrong with that. And even if he was selling more directly, it wouldn't be the first time I have seen it on this forum, and im sure it wouldn't be the last time either hehe.

If I get the aqua system in the end, I guarentee I will compare it to other systems just so there is more information out there. ^_^ As of yet, I haven't fully decided which system I will be going with. The aqua setup is alittle more expensive, however dan's prices aren't that bad when you compare them to other places that sell it, like the actual mfgr.

Anyways, those are just my personal observations. \\// peace

*******************************************************************

Dan,

Thanks for the additional pics. That's a slick setup you have there. Nice and clean.

I see you have the fans on top of the rad, pulling the air through. Is that more effective than pushing the air from the other side? I would have mounted the fans below the rad pushing the air through. Would that have been a mistake?

 

[R1ckCa1n]

I'd like to see a COMPLETE Aquacomputer system.... (Reservoir, 3/8" /10mm tubing, radiator, and waterblocks) run against a standard 1/2 kit or common DIY parts (like a Swiftech or Dangerden waterblock, and you know the rest) .... tested on the same system, same components, same testing. The main things I would want to see is difference between ambient and CPU temps, video card temps, CPU temps, and overclockability.

After something like that happens, then we can have more valid arguments about 1/2 vs 3/8 or low flow German style vs. the american high flow 1/2" systems like the arguments a lot of people seem to want to get into.

The thing you guys are not realizing is the German 6mm / 8mm / 10mm / 12mm isn't meant to perform like a full blown 1/2" system with loud pumps, huge blocks, and fat tubing. The German equipment is meant to be quite, good performance, and look good. Like I said earlier, I lost 2c over a white water, dtek pro core, enheim 1250 pump configuration, but I have two more blocks on this configuration.

My 3500+ idles 37c and load 40c
X800 Pro idles 35c and load 37c
Don't know about the chipset.

My main complaint is that their products are marketed as being high performance while they are not.

In the market they sell too, they are high performance. Why does that bother you considering your won't buy it or have never experianced their products?

A typical aqua computer system compromises performance in several ways:

Many 90 degree fittings are used, which hurt flowrate. In any watercooling system, even one that is not designed with high flow in mind, more flowrate IS ALWAYS better.

The radiators are not designed to utilize shrouds.

The machined fan gratings, which everyone seems to love, are highly restrictive to airflow and serve no real purpose other than to cover up sloppy cutting of fan holes.

I am not going to comment on how these effect performance since all of the american 1/2" systems offer the same options.

The actual waterblocks appear to be decent, however most of the designs used are nothing special compared to modern designs like the white water, cascade, rbx and tdx.

The rbx and tdx are based off the ww, so why are you not flaming dangerden?

Last, next time you want to comment on an AC block, please make sure you provide a link to an actual AC block......

 

[R1ckCa1n]

maybe this forum is not meant for people with engineering based mentalities...

Actually this forum does not like people thread capping with factless, meaningless, bs. It is real simple,,,,, if you do not like these products, don't buy them.

appearances seem to be the driving force behind watercooling systems here.

Hence AC products! If I wanted performance, I would buy a Prommy

 

[BitchBreaker]

R1ckCa1n u said it all to well...If Giblet Plus! wants cooling then here SNT has just what hes looking for
Here

 

[Giblet Plus!]

Actually this forum does not like people thread capping with factless, meaningless, bs. It is real simple,,,,, if you do not like these products, don't buy them.

compare my statements in this thread with those of others..

notice who started the technical discussion..

 

[R1ckCa1n]

compare my statements in this thread with those of others..

notice who started the technical discussion..

Does the first post in this thread sound technical? If you want a techincal discussion about the plus/minus to each type of system, start that in a new thread. Better yet, check out overclockers forum (both the american and aus version) and procooling. This has already been beaten to death.

finally got around to ordering some Aqua Computer watercooling goods. I must say it was a pleasure to install a 3/8" ID / 1/2" OD system compared to the 1/2" ID / 3/4" OD type. Temps are pretty much the same as I was getting with my WW ( WW=37C Aqua=39C) The only difference is I can run almost completely silent whereas I had to push air through the old configuration. Everything was purchased at www.snt-systems.com I highly recommend them!

Point is no one likes capping like you did. If you don't think german excellence is worth the money, don't buy it. If you think they don't perform as well as large, loud 1/2" american/australian systems, your right.

 

[Giblet Plus!]

Does the first post in this thread sound technical? If you want a techincal discussion about the plus/minus to each type of system, start that in a new thread. Better yet, check out overclockers forum (both the american and aus version) and procooling. This has already been beaten to death.

Point is no one likes capping like you did. If you don't think german excellence is worth the money, don't buy it. If you think they don't perform as well as large, loud 1/2" american/australian systems, your right.

hehe, check out the ocforums, k...

"german excellence"?

I'm half german, does that make anything I do excellent? Saying something is excellent based off who makes it is lame.

Also, please explain to me exactly what makes a system with 1/2" ID tubing louder than one with 1/4" ID tubing.

 

[minus81]

Stumpy, what did you all buy for your AC components? You stated that you bought your setup for less than $150 (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm wanting to go with an AquaComputer setup due to the amazing looks of the products (I just know Giblet is going to start flaming me, but I don't care).

 

[Giblet Plus!]

I'm wanting to go with an AquaComputer setup due to the amazing looks of the products (I just know Giblet is going to start flaming me, but I don't care).

why would I "flame"? you admit you want their products because of appearances

if you want to see flaming go to www.genmay.net

 

[[S]nt|Mods]

hehe, check out the ocforums, k...

"german excellence"?

I'm half german, does that make anything I do excellent? Saying something is excellent based off who makes it is lame.

Also, please explain to me exactly what makes a system with 1/2" ID tubing louder than one with 1/4" ID tubing.

What is the point of posting still, do you feel as if you have something new to prove to us?

Also, it just seems wierd to me that at the same time you, Giblet, started posting in this thread I received an email from an Erik, your real name, who claimed to be a watercooling newb.

This email went on to ask for comparison information between the Aqua-Computer products and the likes of DangerDen and Swifty. Under normal circumstances I would have no problem responding immediately with a well thought out and in depth response, especially for someone who claimed to be a water cooling newb. I get a lot of emails asking for help when building a system that may not even ever include the likes of any German Engineered water cooling components. I always do my best to answer people's questions even at 4:00am in the morning so I dont appreciate the CRAP you've shown me here.

This could be just a coicidence of course but just in case it isnt...... Where I draw the line is at the point when someone deceives my trust. By just misleading others to believe in a character who claims to know nothing or next to it gives me no other choice than to simply refuse the service that I am very well known for. Your efforts to be involved in a true technical discussion will continue to go unanswered since you continue to contribute only negative motivation to this forum and thread.

-Dan

 

[fallguy]

There are always people who think anything but 1/2" ID is crap. Ive learned to ignore their ignorance.

Does it really matter if you're registed at oc forums? No.

 

[Giblet Plus!]

There are always people who think anything but 1/2" ID is crap. Ive learned to ignore their ignorance.

where did I say anything other than 1/2" ID is crap?

 

[[S]nt|Mods]

Hey minus81, Im just trying to get this thread back on track. I noticed your post in Fallguy's thread..... What were you interested in from the Aqua-Computer line? Im more than willing to share any information that you may need, even layouts and mods. This might get the ball rolling in the right direction.

-Dan

 

[fallguy]

I might post some pics of mine in a few hours... perhaps a new thread.

 

[stumpy]

Stumpy, what did you all buy for your AC components? You stated that you bought your setup for less than $150 (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm wanting to go with an AquaComputer setup due to the amazing looks of the products (I just know Giblet is going to start flaming me, but I don't care).

My system is not totally aqua-computer, that's why it was cheap. The silver cuplex originally came from Dan, but i bought it "used"...and the rest was purchased locally except for the pump.

I'm working on switching my system totally over to aqua-comptuer though...soon.

 

[minus81]

I'm looking at doing the cpu, gpu, res, rad w/ grill. not sure which pump i'm going to go with yet...been looking at the d4, but not sure if there is one that works with the AC low-flow system better. may even upgrade down the road to include the full AC line, but don't know yet. At least want to start out with pump, res, rad, cpu, and gpu. then add on the nb, hdd, aquaero, and maybe even the psu (but probably not)

 

[Davey]

minus81 a dd4 pump will be horriable with a AC system because its a 370gph pump .. AC is all lowflow systems, I could be wrong though but i wouldn't be one to test it, go with an ehiem 1048 or something


Dan, How is that watercooled PSU going ? I was looking at those and never seen someone with it installed before Now i gotta ask questions !

 

[R1ckCa1n]

hehe, check out the ocforums, k...

Now posting your aviator for ocforums is showing your age (or at least how you are acting)......

"german excellence"?

I'm half german, does that make anything I do excellent? Saying something is excellent based off who makes it is lame.

Since I have owned EVERY waterblock ever made by Cathar, Dtek, DD (minus the clones RBX/TDX), and swiffies, I have come to the conclusion that the German waterblocks are of much higher quality.

Being half german means nothing.

Also, please explain to me exactly what makes a system with 1/2" ID tubing louder than one with 1/4" ID tubing.

Take a look at the pump you are using in our worklog, it is one of the loudest pumps out. Add in your five 120mm fans and it will be nice and loud. That is a classic example of what does not need to happen when using AC products.

 

[Giblet Plus!]

Take a look at the pump you are using in our worklog, it is one of the loudest pumps out. Add in your five 120mm fans and it will be nice and loud. That is a classic example of what does not need to happen when using AC products.

correction, six 120mm fans

my pump may not be quiet. my fans may not be quiet (however, a 75 cfm fan @7V is pretty quiet in my opinion)

however, nothing is stopping you from using my pump and fans in your AC setup. nothing is stopping me from using your pump and fans in my setup.

the pump and fans are what determine the noise of a watercooled setup, NOT THE tubing size

 

[[S]nt|Mods]

correction, six 120mm fans
the pump and fans are what determine the noise of a watercooled setup, NOT THE tubing size

Ummmmmm, I think the kind man was just trying to "say" that there is more noise generally associated with a larger ID tubing setup (his experience). He wasnt "saying" that the tubing is loud (his experience). Just because you are new to watercooling doesnt mean you have to regard yourself as having superior knowledge over everyone and go out of your way in the effort to make them look stupid.

I guess you still havent received the message either, loud and clear, your comments are not welcomed here. Public forum or not you are still not contributing to any "love" or positive motivation in this or the other threads.

-Dan

 

[[S]nt|Mods]

minus81 a dd4 pump will be horriable with a AC system because its a 370gph pump .. AC is all lowflow systems, I could be wrong though but i wouldn't be one to test it, go with an ehiem 1048 or something


Dan, How is that watercooled PSU going ? I was looking at those and never seen someone with it installed before Now i gotta ask questions !

The PSU, in my experience, displays some of the most stable voltages I have seen yet. It remains much cooler when compared to a fan cooled box, obviously due to the exterior water block mounted to the internal heatsink. The nice part is just removing one more noise source from within the average PC, especially when its a variable RPM based noise which is dependant on the power pack's temperature like one of my other PSUs.

I also agree with Davey on this one. Even though the DD4 is an awesome pump, its just overkill for an AC lowflow system. The 1046, the updated Aquastream 12v (1046 with increased pressure to rival the 1048) and the 1048 are fine pumps and are readily available. The Eheim compact 300 and 600 pumps and Hydor L20 wouldnt do bad at all either.

-Dan

 

[Giblet Plus!]

I guess you still havent received the message either, loud and clear, your comments are not welcomed here. Public forum or not you are still not contributing to any "love" or positive motivation in this or the other threads.

I don't rely on this forum for love.

I really don't care if you don't like me. I make negative comments about the products you sell at your store.

I find it odd that you are the most vocal in calling for me to leave. Can you say "conflict of interest"?

 

[SelRahc]

**********************************************************************************
* We interrupt this thread for an important announcement from SelRahc *
**********************************************************************************

Well,
This thread went from good to bad in the last few pages.
You guys can keep arguing if you like I guess... but this always comes to mind:

************************************************************************
* We now return you to your regularly scheduled bickering. *
************************************************************************

 

[R1ckCa1n]

LOL.. how you get that picture of the Giblet?