New 2.1 setup

Discussion in 'Computer Audio' started by zzz, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. zzz

    zzz Gawd

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    Now that my legendary Klipsch Promedia 2.1 died, I need a formidable replacement. What do you all think about getting this DTA-120, along with a couple bookshelves like the ELAC B5, and a powered sub?
     
  2. jevans64

    jevans64 Limp Gawd

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  3. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    I just bought a pair of LSR305s and stands for 200 eur. Preowned. I have no real use for them at the moment but experience has told me that you always have use for a nice pair of speakers :)

    Hmmm... my shed definately needs more hi-fi...
     
  4. Kintigh

    Kintigh n00bie

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    I just recently replaced a failing Klipsch 2.1 the older nicer ones.........with a set of JBL LSR305's. There a real step up from the Klipsch sans a sub. I haven't felt the need for a sub at this point.

    As a side note I just ran across a station on Shoutcast. Found it inside musicbee..........paradise radio...................yumm.....................hands on the best eclectic rock leaning everything covered uniterupted commercial free radio.............eVah
     
  5. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    I feel I must ask - do you guys that are going for a 2.1 setup play a lot of games? I can't really imagine not having some form of surround sound (whether it's 5.1 speakers or virtualized headphones) for gaming.

    I have considered going with a nice 2.1 setup but other than for music I don't see the benefit.
     
  6. Commander Shepard

    Commander Shepard [H]ard|Gawd

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    A few other bookshelf speakers to consider: Klipsch RP-150M, KEF Q100, Jamo C93.

    I've always preferred 2.1 to surround sound for my computer audio, even for gaming.
     
  7. the snake

    the snake [H]ard|Gawd

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    i went from 4.1 set of old klipsch that were old as fuck to a set of JBL305, wow such a better sounding set of speakers, then a few months later got the LSR310sub https://www.amazon.com/JBL-LSR310S-Channel-Studio-Subwoofer/dp/B00I08RT3U

    so much better this way, fuller sound overall but not boomy at all, to me it was worth the extra money
     
  8. zzz

    zzz Gawd

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    I'm shocked how popular these LSR3's are, considering how many bookshelf options are out there. Do you use some sort of stand to isolate vibrations from transferring?

    I have mixed feelings about surround. It won't apply for music, videos, RTS games, or old games. Good potential for FPSs, but I just don't know how well it works in practice (e.g. is back sound muddled, or as crystal clear as the front?).
     
  9. |Tch0rT|

    |Tch0rT| [H]ard|Gawd

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    The JBL LSR305's are popular because they're cheap, good sounding, and sort of an "all in one" with no need to buy an amp to take up space on your desk. Plus I'll take an active monitor over a passive bookshelf (within reason of course cuz it's much more complicated than that).

    The extent that they market isolation products is mostly snake oil. Get the tweeter to ear level and if you have no buzzs from the surface the speaker is on you're good to go. That being said I use IsoAcoustic stands for aesthetic purposes, relatively cheap for stands, and the different height options.

    Surround sound is awesome in games that do it well. I just started Dark Souls 3 and playing on my 6.1 surround sound (center is phantom) and I can tell when I miss an enemy and it's behind me trying to get me etc. The back surrounds will depend on the speaker but it won't be "crystal clear as the front" due to how our ears are but if the speaker is of good enough quality it won't be muddled but it won't be like fronts on axis etc. You can definitely tell if there's a shitty speaker or a decent quality speaker behind you.
     
  10. trentchau

    trentchau [H]ard|Gawd

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    you can go budget like me and get a reciever from craigslist for $20 and tower speakers from a local thrift store for $10 each :)

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Kintigh

    Kintigh n00bie

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    I've always preferred 2.0 / 2.1 for computer audio...........including gaming.

    Some of the advantages I see to the 305's especially in a computer environment over the Klispch are as follows.

    Amps for each driver are in each box.

    The amps run cool (unlike the Klipsch that run warm+)

    They sound better (pretty much a heavily weighted deciding factor)

    If there were to be issues down the line one speaker cabinet assembly could be replaced at a time (instead of requiring a whole new set)

    I bought some inexpensive foam iso pads from Amazon that tilt towards ear level(no brainer for the cost)

    There is a great deal of excitement and innovation in the computer audiophile sector, there are other great solutions to achieving a greater level of enjoyment in computer audio.

    For me someone with modest means I am most excited by whats available on the low end and how well it competes with things costing multiples times more *blink*

    ps Not to disparage the Klipsch 2.1 setup. It supplied me with good sound through multiple computer iterations.
     
  12. zzz

    zzz Gawd

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    I wish the JBL 2.1 solution wasn't $700.
     
  13. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    700 bucks is peanuts for the quality you get.
     
  14. jevans64

    jevans64 Limp Gawd

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    Yes. $700 is cheap.

    My 2.1 setup...

    Emotiva Stealth 6 ( 100w + 110w - each ) -- $720 on sale and closeout, regular $1200.
    Emotiva Stealth DC-1 DAC -- $500
    SVS SB16-Ultra sub -- $2000

    I used to recommend Emotiva speakers but at $500 for a pair ( Airmotiv 5 ) they aren't as good a bargain as they used to be. Still not bad for a ribbon tweeter and 100 watts powered.

    I'd pair the JBL LSR305's with an SVS SB1000 or SB2000 sub.
     
  15. zzz

    zzz Gawd

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    I guess that makes the original $130 Klipsch Promedia a steal.
     
  16. Commander Shepard

    Commander Shepard [H]ard|Gawd

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    Indeed! The KP 2.1 has been one of the best bang-for-the-buck PC audio systems since it debuted back in 2002. I went through two of them before moving to better (and considerably more expensive) solutions. I spent well over $2500 on my current 2.1 system: DAC/amp/bookshelf/sub. I've never quite liked the sound of studio monitors.
     
  17. jevans64

    jevans64 Limp Gawd

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    I started with something like that ( and the craptastic $20 Altec Lansing speakers ) and also Creative T40 speakers that I tried because of the convenience. I had a pair of Acoustic Research Powered Partners AV570 for 18 years. Excellent speakers for $300 and were still kicking when I sold them. I already had Emotiva amps and bought their powered monitors when they released them.
     
  18. zzz

    zzz Gawd

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    Dang, expensive! 20x Klipsch, and how much better is it really.

    I'll need to look into the options simlar to the LSR305. I don't want to spend $400 on the sub though, nor do I need more than 100W (I do have neighbors!). One option I saw is the $150 NS-SW050.
     
  19. DF-1

    DF-1 [H]ard|Gawd

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    the corsair SP2500 got real good reviews (even here at [H])
    but it seems discontinued? wish there was a simple plug n play (no speaker wire/DACS/other bullshit to deal with) that sounded good.
     
  20. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    The power rating is totally irrelevant. If you have a speaker that puts out 75db at 1 watt your 100watt amp is producing less sound than a regular speaker at 1 watt.
     
  21. |Tch0rT|

    |Tch0rT| [H]ard|Gawd

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  22. zzz

    zzz Gawd

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    I don't get it. Higher power allows more volume and costs more. If I don't need the volume nor want to break the bank, isn't it logical to look at <200W models? If I were filling a ballroom I'd look for 1000W, or more. How is power totally irrelevant?
     
  23. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    I just told you. The amplifier power tells nothing about the volume you get out. Two different speakers can put out 10 times the volume difference at 1 watt power.
     
  24. zzz

    zzz Gawd

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    Do real speakers for sale vary by 10x in loudness/watt efficiency, in the 100W range? (not 1W)
     
  25. |Tch0rT|

    |Tch0rT| [H]ard|Gawd

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    Efficiency is more important than the power rating, that tells you more about how the loud driver can get with an amp than the power rating does and sadly most people don't realize it. The RMS power rating just tells you it can take whatever power for 8 hours straight. While not quite 10x in effciency these are close real world examples, both are 5.25" woofers with horn tweeters:

    Klipsch RP-150M is 93dB @ 2.83V / 1m, power rated specified as 75w continuous/300 peak
    http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/RP-150M-Spec-Sheet.pdf

    JBL Studio 530 is 86dB @ 2.83V / 1m, it doesn't have a continuous or peak spec, just a recommended 125 watt amp.
    http://www.jblsynthesis.com/tl_files/catalog//jblsynthesis/Studio 530/Studio 530 Product Information Sheet.pdf

    Lets play with numbers and and SPL calculator http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
    Just to keep it consistent, distance is 6ft, 2 speakers, and Away from walls (or do not consider placement) clicked.

    The Klipsch with a 100 watt amp peak SPL is 110.8dB, the JBL's need a 500 watt amp to get the same peak SPL. This is why power the way you're looking at it is wrong and irrelevant.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  26. zzz

    zzz Gawd

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    Thanks for clearing that up. Very informative. I knew there were different efficiencies but didn't realize they varied that much. With powered subs it seems it's hard to know what's overkill. It's probably a reasonable assumption that they all can output adequate loudness for a small room.
     
  27. HammerSandwich

    HammerSandwich Gawd

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    Your basic point's sound, but "regular speakers" aren't 95dB @ 1W.

    Why this sub? After shipping, it's almost 2x the price of the Dayton 12" here. I don't know how PE includes free shipping on these 40-lb boxes, but they're great deals.
     
  28. zzz

    zzz Gawd

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    Starting from a TRS stereo source from a sound card, what's generally the best way to connect to 2 balanced TRS inputs? Y-split it to 2 monos, and then route 2 TS cables to the 2 TRS inputs?
     
  29. |Tch0rT|

    |Tch0rT| [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why that sub? There's pretty much no good way to integrate JBL LSR305's (or any other active pro monitors) and that Dayton Sub-1200 (or any other consumer style sub like this) without a preamp with some sort of bass management/crossovers which I pretty much guarantee will cost more money than that extra ~$130:

    1) There are only hi level outputs which would require output from an amp and since the LSR's are active it's a waste of money not to mention a less than ideal signal path and who knows what kind of noise or problems you'll introduce using that high level output and hacking some cables to TRS or XLR to even connect to the Studio monitors.
    2) Even if you did do it that way the Dayton Sub-1200 does not have a crossover for any speakers piggy backing off of it so you lose one of the benefits of off loading the bass from the smaller speakers to the sub and then you'll have phase issues etc.

    The Monoproce Studio Monitor Sub or the matching JBL LSR310s have crossover abilities (the Monoprice one actually lets you set the crossover point unlike the fixed 80hz one in the LSR310S) for the active monitors running through it. You really only need to add a passive volume control and bam you have a simple system. That's why.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  30. HammerSandwich

    HammerSandwich Gawd

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    Excellent points.

    Do you think the Dayton would be a good choice if doing bass management on the PC & using a separate output to the sub?
     
  31. |Tch0rT|

    |Tch0rT| [H]ard|Gawd

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    If you had a way to do bass management/cross over with the PC like with JRiver or something then it's probably fine. They seem to get good reviews for that budget. Not my cup o tea personally unless I just needed cheap bass (I prefer DIY subs, i.e. Dayton Ultimax or Stereo Integrity style builds).
     
  32. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    It depends what you call regular speakers. I consider horn speakers regular and they easily pass 95db/watt. So that power rating and/or amp size really tells you nothing in the end.

    Some Klipsch models that people consider 'regular' approach 110db/watt. http://www.klipsch.com/education/speaker-sensitivity
     
  33. dexvx

    dexvx Gawd

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    So sorry to pop in, but for a 2.0/2.1 setup around the same price as the Kliptsch Promedia 2.1 (<$150 for everything), are there any better options, or is that it? Some of the speakers I looked above are $150-300 each.

    This is for my retro gaming (Win98SE) rig.
     
  34. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    I haven't heard the promedia set but it might be good bang for buck.
     
  35. dgacioch

    dgacioch [H]Lite

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    Honestly no. But at that price point nothing is really built very well. I had the Logitech z623 and they lasted about 2 years before dying. They did get loud, just didn't sound very good. The klipsch is probably your best bet if you just want a cheap 2 in 1 setup for under 150 bucks. As has been mentioned, even a cheap set of bookshelves and receiver will blow away these cheap all in ones. I pair a set of Polk monitor 40's with an ancient Sony receiver I had lying around and it's much much better than my old Logitech setup. You can pick up name brand 2 channel stereo receivers fairly cheap when they go on sale and decent bookshelves for under 150 bucks. My Polk's were 100 shipped from Polk on eBay.
     
  36. dexvx

    dexvx Gawd

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  37. dgacioch

    dgacioch [H]Lite

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    I have heard the Klipsch set and it was a little better i think than my logitech model. As far as the cheaper studio monitors go, i have not heard the m-audio models but my friend has the mackie cr4's which should be similar. They sound ok, but definately need a sub. When my logitechs blew up, I decided against the cheaper studio monitors because I was leery of the quality and longevity of the amps used to keep the cost down plus the small drivers are going to push you into wanting to spend the extra cash on a sub. That being said, I think you still get better sound and quality overall going that route than you would with any of the prepackaged systems. You can get powered 2 in 1 monitors on amazon for 100 bucks and add a cheap sub when you find something on sale. If its just for a gaming rig and casual music listening thats more than enough.
     
  38. Deadjasper

    Deadjasper [H]ard|Gawd

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    I murdered my Klipsch Pro Media 4.1's trying to replace the pods. Didn't have the correct desoldering tool for the job and destroyed the board. I ordered the correct tool which worked great but the board was already mangled beyond repair. So I decided to spend a little money and get sound that was at least as good, if not better than, the Pro Medias. I picked up a new, open box Audiosource AMP100VS from eBay for a $130 and 4 Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers from Amazon for $130 each. I already had a powered Klipsch sub (Not the Pro Media one). The Audiosource will power 4 speakers at the same time and I really don't care if it DD, DTS, etc or not, I just want to be surrrounded by sound. I had no idea this setup would sound as good as it does. The SP-BS22-LR's are hands down the best bookshelf speakers I've ever heard and the amp is crystal clear without the slightest hint of noise and the bass is as tight as it gets. The volume gets louder than I ever need it to. I'm real happy with the system. The Pro Media's served me well for more years than than I can remember but they got to where I was constantly having to bump the volume knob to get the right speaker working and the static when changing the volume got to be painful. R.I.P. Pro Medias.
     
  39. TechLarry

    TechLarry Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I got a set of these and hated them from day 1. Way over priced and the Klipsch PM 2.1's sound better IMHO.
     
  40. TechLarry

    TechLarry Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I'd get another set of PM 2.1's.

    I have three sets of them in use now. I just ordered a set of the new BlueTooth enabled one's. Should be here tomorrow. Going in the kitchen with a Echo Dot connected to it. That with Amazon Music is damn hard to beat.