• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Never going back ATX

T

TangledThornz

[H]ard|Gawd
2FA
Joined
Jun 12, 2018
Messages
1,551
Built my first MFF in a ASUS AP201 with MSI MAG 850M WIFI mobo last month and its been a great experience. No issues other than placement of bottom fans that was fixed with nylon washers.

It made me realize I'll never go back to ATX again as that form seems massive and outdated imo. Outside of CPU, RAM, and GPU almost everything else is built into the mobo and don't need the space for extra HDDs since M2 SSDs fits on the mobo too. If I have to do another build it'll also most likely be ITX too.


855692cc-4e6f-433d-a812-e0faeede67e1~1.jpg
 
MrGuvernment said:
I have considered a build like this so many times, but then since I use a 10Gb NIC (SFP+) that idea goes out the window for me.
Click to expand...
Give it a few years and 10GbE will be mainstream on mini-ITX thanks to the Realtek RTL8127. So if you could just be willing to switch to RJ45 it could happen lol
 
pendragon1 said:
so a mid sized case? never heard it referred to as MFF
Click to expand...
.SFF is generally thought to be less than 20 or even 15L volume cases, while mid is between than and cases than can fit an ATX size mobo.

The Jonsbo Z20 is similar to the case the OP built with as is the Lian Li Dan A3. There’s an entire subreddit dedicated to MFF
https://www.reddit.com/r/mffpc/s/3CwHqQycym
 
Every time I think like this, I end up building a mini-ITX system for someone and noping out of that bullshit. I fucking hate working on them. (I do actually own a mini-ITX system, but its not my primary machine.)
 
I like my Fractal Mood a lot. It's not small, and it's not efficient, but it is quiet and easy to work with. Would have been nice if there was just a bit more space next to the PSU (USB/fp/etc wires between it and the 24p connector), but I made it happen.
 
MrGuvernment said:
I have considered a build like this so many times, but then since I use a 10Gb NIC (SFP+) that idea goes out the window for me.
Click to expand...
Even some SFF cases would be almost suitable for mATX with room for expansion slots but unfortunately most restrict expansion capability by prioritizing minimizing GPU headroom, leaving no extra slot mounts or physical space to even place under with bifurcation risers.

When one looks at SFF threads over the years one of the most sought after things to do is wrangle ways of getting 10GbE NICs installed alongside a GPU for ITX motherboards and cases. Some of time the cases even support mATX (eg: NR200P) but again don't have a way to mount things beneath the GPU or elsewhere.
 
Having more than 2 NVME would be cool. I don't use SATA anymore, so no need for that..
 
Okatis said:
Even some SFF cases would be almost suitable for mATX with room for expansion slots but unfortunately most restrict expansion capability by prioritizing minimizing GPU headroom, leaving no extra slot mounts or physical space to even place under with bifurcation risers.

When one looks at SFF threads over the years one of the most sought after things to do is wrangle ways of getting 10GbE NICs installed alongside a GPU for ITX motherboards and cases. Some of time the cases even support mATX (eg: NR200P) but again don't have a way to mount things beneath the GPU or elsewhere.
Click to expand...

There's some m.2 10G NICs with remote mount rj45 ports. A little creativity and that can work. If you need sfp+, it seems like you can get a m.2 -> pci-e riser, there's some weird stuff like this https://www.amazon.com/Euqvos-Ethernet-Network-Gigabit-Windows/dp/B0DDKXVJJ4 where the card gets pci-e from a connector on the end instead of the slot, but it still takes up a lot of room. 10g works in pci-e 2.0x4, so lane count shouldn't be a problem.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
toast0 said:
A little creativity and that can work
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm familiar with creative workarounds :p I've seen m.2 adapter NICs though various in benchmarks top out at ~700MBps. Other workarounds are PCIe bifurcation in sandwich cases (GPU in one slot, full size 10GbE NIC in another), or even m.2 to full size NIC adapters mounted variously.

Problem is, it's something that regular cases and motherboards allow painlessly just by having an extra PCIe slot and room to mount it. Yet discussions in SFF enthusiast circles are frequently about how to get the most basic expansion working yet ITX and most SFF cases aren't suited for it.

It's funny since I have a Lenovo Tiny 1L PC (practically palm length) and have fitted a custom riser which brings the total 2280 size NVMe support to 4x and allows fitting an arbitrary PCIe card as well, along with an extra SATA connector and spare 2230 size m.2 slot which can be used for whatever (with a BIOS tweak). ITX and larger size SFF cases could do so much better in terms of expandability.
 
Totally agree that ATX is unnecessary for the vast majority of people who don't have particularly specialist requirements. I reckon 99% of people would be fine with mATX and over 95% of people would be fine with mITX.
 
Just pulling numbers out of your ass lol. SFF is a pain in the ass to work with, and to upgrade. You pay the same amount to limit yourself.

Awesome deal. Golf clap.
 
freeagentt said:
Just pulling numbers out of your ass lol. SFF is a pain in the ass to work with, and to upgrade. You pay the same amount to limit yourself.

Awesome deal. Golf clap.
Click to expand...
no hes right, maybe not 99%, most plebs could get by with a mini pc like a beelink.

Okatis said:
SFF enthusiast circles
Click to expand...
you mean masochists? ;)
 
Haha.

Edit:

I do have a Strix B660i and some ram for it. Maybe I should build it.
 
Bawjaws said:
Totally agree that ATX is unnecessary for the vast majority of people who don't have particularly specialist requirements. I reckon 99% of people would be fine with mATX and over 95% of people would be fine with mITX.
Click to expand...

For PC gamers (like me for example) that just want to game I'll agree with that statement. SFF has come a long way in the past 10 years but it seems like ITX will grow more popular than mATX sooner I think. It's amazing what they're able to cram onto a mATX and ITX mobo now.


View: https://youtu.be/Gz3FBi_QBIM?si=AHao-6G9cUrzXUa1&t=84

freeagentt said:
Just pulling numbers out of your ass lol. SFF is a pain in the ass to work with, and to upgrade. You pay the same amount to limit yourself.

Awesome deal. Golf clap.
Click to expand...

SFF isn't a pain or niche like it used to be. I will note that age doesn't help as trying to see pins was harder than I remember, lol.

To each their own of course. If you need the big mobo with extra slots and a big case for your dozen HDDs and fans then go for it.
 
Last edited:
I do have a Strix B660i and some ram for it. Now looking at cases lol..

Dammit.

Oh yeah need a CPU too.. 💩
 
At some point I'm going to make the switch too, I don't require a bunch of expansion. I would've made the switch when I moved to AM5 - however my 3080 Hybrid is too big for most mATX cases, and that's a upgrade I'm hoping to hold off for until GPU pricing comes down (or I'm richer).

But - yeah, AP201 is on my short list - that's a sweet looking case.
 
freeagentt said:
Just pulling numbers out of your ass lol. SFF is a pain in the ass to work with, and to upgrade. You pay the same amount to limit yourself.

Awesome deal. Golf clap.
Click to expand...
Most people once their system is built, they don't touch it after that, especially these smaller SFF builds. If you are not doing any special water cooling, it is often just removing a panel or mount and out comes what you need, and upgrades, I haven't touched my current rig in 3 years since I built it..
 
MrGuvernment said:
Most people once their system is built, they don't touch it after that, especially these smaller SFF builds. If you are not doing any special water cooling, it is often just removing a panel or mount and out comes what you need, and upgrades, I haven't touched my current rig in 3 years since I built it..
Click to expand...
I am always messing with mine, nothing wrong with it.. but I have different coolers, ram, cases.. I just like to tinker.
 
TangledThornz said:
It made me realize I'll never go back to ATX again as that form seems massive and outdated imo.
Click to expand...
Sure to you. But it is a silly narcissistic build of LOOK AT ME!
IMO there are people who game, or other PC users who are even MORE don't give an "F".
Then there are those who are fanbois/look at me crowd who are in the space to niche out their "specialness".
If your PC belongs below your desk (tool) or above your desk (toy) tells a lot about who the owner is and how much attention they desire!
 
funkydmunky said:
If your PC belongs below your desk (tool) or above your desk (toy) tells a lot about who the owner is
Click to expand...
Tbh what mostly comes to mind with PCs placed under desk is they're too large to fit anywhere else. Apple figured out like 30+ years ago that making PCs a singular unit means the desk room for a monitor isn't going to waste. The attractiveness of smaller builds is reducing such footprints. The OP's modest all black build doesn't look ostentatious at all to me.
 
funkydmunky said:
Sure to you. But it is a silly narcissistic build of LOOK AT ME!
IMO there are people who game, or other PC users who are even MORE don't give an "F".
Then there are those who are fanbois/look at me crowd who are in the space to niche out their "specialness".
If your PC belongs below your desk (tool) or above your desk (toy) tells a lot about who the owner is and how much attention they desire!
Click to expand...

Ma'am, this is a [H] forum.

Didn't expect my post to trigger the chonk case PC builder, lol. We get it, you still use heavy af CRT monitors too, haha.

Okatis said:
Tbh what mostly comes to mind with PCs placed under desk is they're too large to fit anywhere else. Apple figured out like 30+ years ago that making PCs a singular unit means the desk room for a monitor isn't going to waste. The attractiveness of smaller builds is reducing such footprints. The OP's modest all black build doesn't look ostentatious at all to me.
Click to expand...

Thank you and like Batman, I only work in black and sometimes really really dark grey. lol. Going all black with no RGB is also called stealth which is now a thing thankfully. RGB in my last build would make me go nuts trying to get all the lights to sync up and wasn't worth the added stress. RGB looks pretty in photos and videos but does nothing for me gaming wise. To each your own of course.
 
funkydmunky said:
Sure to you. But it is a silly narcissistic build of LOOK AT ME!
IMO there are people who game, or other PC users who are even MORE don't give an "F".
Then there are those who are fanbois/look at me crowd who are in the space to niche out their "specialness".
If your PC belongs below your desk (tool) or above your desk (toy) tells a lot about who the owner is and how much attention they desire!
Click to expand...
Meh, putting so much thought into what yourself and someone else does with their PC also says a lot about a person, never stopped us before.
 
Dan_D said:
Every time I think like this, I end up building a mini-ITX system for someone and noping out of that bullshit. I fucking hate working on them. (I do actually own a mini-ITX system, but its not my primary machine.)
Click to expand...
There's a computer shop in town that will do labor at half rate for full towers work and builds and sends everything below 30 liters across the river to the young bucks shop unless his son isn't busy.
 
funkydmunky said:
Sure to you. But it is a silly narcissistic build of LOOK AT ME!
IMO there are people who game, or other PC users who are even MORE don't give an "F".
Then there are those who are fanbois/look at me crowd who are in the space to niche out their "specialness".
If your PC belongs below your desk (tool) or above your desk (toy) tells a lot about who the owner is and how much attention they desire!
Click to expand...
Wow, out of touch much? Do you honestly judge someone based on where their case sits..pretty shallow...

My case is under my desk and still looks purdy.. full ATX case...

The reason to go SFF is to save space, not everyone wants a big hulking case under their desk, maybe they have limited leg room, maybe they like just plugging in things direct to the top/front of their case with out reaching under their desk, they don't need 20 PCIe add-on cards for various things...

I would love to do an SFF system and sit it on my desk, it would fit, but I also need a dual port 10Gb SFP+ card along with my GPU so that is out of the question unless as noted above, some special case and m.2 risers are used.

Plenty of reasons to not want a full ATX case....and the system can still be a tool...
 
MrGuvernment said:
Wow, out of touch much? Do you honestly judge someone based on where their case sits..pretty shallow...

My case is under my desk and still looks purdy.. full ATX case...

The reason to go SFF is to save space, not everyone wants a big hulking case under their desk, maybe they have limited leg room, maybe they like just plugging in things direct to the top/front of their case with out reaching under their desk, they don't need 20 PCIe add-on cards for various things...

I would love to do an SFF system and sit it on my desk, it would fit, but I also need a dual port 10Gb SFP+ card along with my GPU so that is out of the question unless as noted above, some special case and m.2 risers are used.

Plenty of reasons to not want a full ATX case....and the system can still be a tool...
Click to expand...
We do on the desk to reduce the cat and German Shepherd fur ingestion into computers and also to plug stuff in without getting up.
 
Dan_D said:
Every time I think like this, I end up building a mini-ITX system for someone and noping out of that bullshit. I fucking hate working on them. (I do actually own a mini-ITX system, but its not my primary machine.)
Click to expand...
I learned this 20 years ago trying to build an matx cube. I liked it, but it was hot AF, and a huge pain to upgrade/work on. Never again. I might dip into matx in the future, but only with a spacious conventional case. ATX is where anyone who actually likes computer hardware should be.

Itx is super cute, but they're little gremlins.
 
funkydmunky said:
Sure to you. But it is a silly narcissistic build of LOOK AT ME!
IMO there are people who game, or other PC users who are even MORE don't give an "F".
Then there are those who are fanbois/look at me crowd who are in the space to niche out their "specialness".
If your PC belongs below your desk (tool) or above your desk (toy) tells a lot about who the owner is and how much attention they desire!
Click to expand...
You do understand that this is a hobby, right?

Why are you even here?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top