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.NET developer starting pay?

T

tgabe213

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Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
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So I just started the summer semester, and will be graduating on Dec 20th after this fall semester. I'll be graduating with a BBA in MIS. What do I really want to do? I love web development in asp.net. Maybe you can tell that from my constant string of posts with questions. I'm wondering from those of you in the know what kind of starting pay most developers are at and what kind of experience is required. Other than doing things on my own, I've had my vb.net and c# courses, and have a developing web applications with web services in fall. I have an internship with a great company right now with a really good possibility to have a job when I graduate. Except, I don't know that I'll be able to find a position that is more so what I'm interested in. I'm being trained and working as an intern in a service delivery group for one of our companies products (that many of you may use each and every day). I don't mind the work. It's easy, but challenging. I just don't see this being what I want to do. Maybe I should stop complaining and that if I can get an in, I should just run with it.

Sorry, this sort of turned into a rant, but my question still stands. Entry level pay for a .net developer and what skills are being looked for? How much training is usually involved? I don't think they will just throw you under the bus and expect you to know everything just cause you have that piece of paper. Is it worth while pursuing the Microsoft certifications?
 
Each of these questions can go on a tangent, so I'll try to summarize a few points from my past experience...

Starting salary will be from a wide range. Be aware that external factors, such as regional cost of living and goods, will play a significant role in your starting salary amount.

As for the job itself, that depends more on the employer. If the employer has a stable of products they sell and maintain, then expect job requirements to run parallel with that. Job postings will usually provide some level of detail as to the skill sets needed, but sometimes you have to read between the lines. And do your homework on the company you are interviewing with; at least know what's on their website.

If you get to the interview stage, then have these deeper questions about skillsets desired ready. Word them so that you skip the potential gloss-over answers; questions like "How did you get involved with ______ product/project, and what were some technical hurdles you dealt with during development?" go alot farther and more easily lead into deeper questions than "What skills are you looking for?". Plus, it shows that you've done your homework on the company.

As a side note, doing some practice interviews is always helpful. Talk to your professors and/or guidance counselors about doing this.

For the training and certifications, employers want to get you up to speed with their team as quickly as possible. And in this regard are the non-technical job requirements: clear communication, thought processes, proper documentation and comprehension, etc.

Not sure of the spectrum of answers you'll get on the MS certs, but I think they are worthwhile. Some employers may even use that as a filter to get your resume past the 15-30 second skim.
 
Regarding certifications, my company paid for my MCPD: Windows Developer. We needed someone who had the certification as part of a Microsoft Partner Program promotion to ensure we retained Gold Partner status, and I was tapped to do the job.

Sometimes the reason for a certification isn't entirely personal--some companies may need certifications to retain specific benefits from Microsoft, in which case they could hire from outside or train from within.

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I would expect 50-60k/yr starting pay, but we're worth a lot more than that, so don't stay at that point for too long. .Net is in high demand. You just need experience with it on your resume first.

Also, this might sound like a weird suggestion, but read www.thedailywtf.com a lot - it gives you a lot of tips of how NOT to program, and also, it's just a damn funny site.
 
Yeah suprisingly there are a lot of high tech companies around here.
Novell
Altiris/Symantec
LANDesk
Oracle
Intel/Micron Flash plant
many many more...
 
For a developer just out of school, I can't imagine paying more than 60K regardless of the languages or technologies with which they claim to be familiar. It's easy to adjust salary up; it's harder to adjust salary down or terminate someone.
 
I'd say 60k is an excellent starting point for a 22yr old...

I know everything depends on anything, but how does that adjust per region?
I'm concerned for the fact of supporting myself an fiancee when we get married 7 months after graudation. I also want to get a position in something I want to do, and just slide in cause I'm already here.
 
I started quite a bit below 60k, but I also live in an area where $150k buys you a pretty damn nice house and the overall cost-of-living is damn cheap. It works out for me, but if I was at my current salary living in New York or California I'd quit or demand a huge salary increase!

Region does play a pretty significant part, but to work off of Mike's comments there's no substitute for real experience, so paying a lot isn't as beneficial to the company as paying less and scaling it as needed.
 
How can I get the best experience possible in the next few months before graduation? I need to figure out when I should start looking to see what is out there too..
 
I agree there is no substitute for a lot of real experience. I have been paid relatively well as I have a huge background including admin stuff, networking, hardware, lots of under-the-hood windows knowledge, etc, in addition to a few years of 'on the job' programming. 10+ years of real work experience at this point. Never been to College. Just recently started a job doing QA C# dev work bulding/maintaining several in-house test frameworks as well as a bunch of other in-house projects. Hired on just under 70k, I'm 24. YMMV but there are decent paying jobs out there, just gotta be sharp :)
 
tgabe213 said:
How can I get the best experience possible in the next few months before graduation? I need to figure out when I should start looking to see what is out there too..
Click to expand...

Work anywhere, make some cool app's to show off (or tell about) in your interviews. Stuff like that
emthup.gif
 
There is no substitute to actual work, for the simple reason that figuring out what each company needs can't be done from the outside.
I think the best you can do is make sure you know all the basics well enough to combine them and be versatile, and always ALWAYS read and stay on top of what's coming out.
Good luck, starting out is a challenging and interesting period in life.
 
tgabe213 said:
How can I get the best experience possible in the next few months before graduation? I need to figure out when I should start looking to see what is out there too..
Click to expand...

Program some cool stuff, put it available for free on the web. Make a portfolio. Put the (useful) programs you have worked on, with descriptions, challenges faced coding it, etc. Might be too much to ask to do this in a matter of months, though.
 
What would you suggest? Beside cool per say, but what kind of things should I know?

Also, maybe not exactly related, by why is asp.net set up to allow you to do many things non-programmatically? I can connect to my database without any c# code, just the asp.net controls and wizards
 
Rookie, noob, just out of college around $40,000

With great skill comes great salary if you truly are the shit you can get $100,000+ easy.

I started at 43,000.
 
35-50k depending on area for a typical regional state college.

Stanford grad would obviously get a higher salary.
 
:eek:
extide said:
I agree there is no substitute for a lot of real experience. I have been paid relatively well as I have a huge background including admin stuff, networking, hardware, lots of under-the-hood windows knowledge, etc, in addition to a few years of 'on the job' programming. 10+ years of real work experience at this point. Never been to College. Just recently started a job doing QA C# dev work bulding/maintaining several in-house test frameworks as well as a bunch of other in-house projects. Hired on just under 70k, I'm 24. YMMV but there are decent paying jobs out there, just gotta be sharp :)
Click to expand...

10+ years of real work experience at 24? :eek:
 
If you can swing an internship or something before you graduate, it would very likely have a positive impact on a starting salary, particularly if you get a job that is related to your internship.
 
I have an awesome internship now in a big company with exposure to a ton of things. It's just not development, and I don't know that there will be an opening to do what I want when I graduate
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
@0yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 50k
@2 yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 70k
@4yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 85k
@6yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 108k
 
BDV said:
:eek:

10+ years of real work experience at 24? :eek:
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking. :) I've got 15 years experience at 34 (started at 17, out of high school, but changed career... then back!).
 
v6maro said:
@0yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 50k
@2 yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 70k
@4yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 85k
@6yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 108k
Click to expand...

Where are you located? What was the size of the company like?
 
I would highly suggest an internship this summer for fall. I am going to intern with a .NET group that is fairly large - $4M top line. They extend full time positions to the best interns. And even if I don't get a position with them, it is great real world experience that would look good to other firms.
 
BDV said:
35-50k depending on area for a typical regional state college.

Stanford grad would obviously get a higher salary.
Click to expand...

this is what I will agree with. I live in a very expensive area (NOVA) and my first job out of college was 48k. 2-1/2 years later I was able to leave that company and get a new job where I am making over 70.

You should be prepared to make less than what everyone and everything will tell you but if you work hard, gain experience you can then move to a new job and expect higher pay most of the time.
 
mikeblas said:
For a developer just out of school, I can't imagine paying more than 60K regardless of the languages or technologies with which they claim to be familiar. It's easy to adjust salary up; it's harder to adjust salary down or terminate someone.
Click to expand...

qft.
 
Why don't you spend more time mastering foundational aspects of computer science, learning how to engineer a product with a team of people, and getting an internship using a technology or environment similar to one you wish to use in the early parts of your career.... and worry less about how much money you'll be making at a job you don't have and aren't qualified for yet?

I was told the same thing two years ago when I graduate from college, and I didn't like to hear it when people told me the same thing. They were right.

edit: I did end up listening to them, and now I make what is worth about $75K in a larger place (than where I am) like Baltimore. This is only two years after I entered the workforce as an intern at a CMMI-3 engineering company and finishing graduate school 3 weeks ago.
 
nameless_centurian said:
Why don't you spend more time mastering foundational aspects of computer science, learning how to engineer a product with a team of people, and getting an internship using a technology or environment similar to one you wish to use in the early parts of your career.... and worry less about how much money you'll be making at a job you don't have and aren't qualified for yet?

I was told the same thing two years ago when I graduate from college, and I didn't like to hear it when people told me the same thing. They were right.

edit: I did end up listening to them, and now I make what is worth about $75K in a larger place (than where I am) like Baltimore. This is only two years after I entered the workforce as an intern at a CMMI-3 engineering company and finishing graduate school 3 weeks ago.
Click to expand...

The post is more so curiosity, but along with that I got a ton more information unrelated to salary, which is what I was looking for.
 
Anyways, in this job market I'd take whatever I could get my hands on to get initial experience on the platform I wanted to work on...

Very few jobs, very many candidates...
 
extide said:
Around here in SLC you can land a Jr .NET job in the ~70k realm.
Click to expand...

THAT is typically what I see around here (Phoenix, AZ), experienced C# dev's often earn upwards of 80k, especially as a contractor. I think it depends mostly on your area, as well as the role the software plays in the company. I am working currently as a QA/DEV guy for a trust management company in which the software we develop is their livelyhood, so they pay rather well. Ive had some dev roles elswhere however where the in house development was simply an upsell, they paid the dev signifiganly less.
 
BDV said:
:eek:

10+ years of real work experience at 24? :eek:
Click to expand...


Yeah, I have been interning with my dad's work and in schools since I was 14. Much of that 10 years has not been dev work though, mostly had been admin/networking/hardware/whatever stuff. For the last 2 or so it has been dev work, so I am getting there, heh.
 
If I had a job for 20 years as an oil changing technician, would you consider it enough real-world work experience to hire me on as an auto detailer for tricked-out, custom, $130,000+ cars as long as I have been working with auto paint the past two years?

You have a very similar degree of experience as I do, it sounds. I had the same type of job at about age 16, I was CCNA when I was 18, and then I went to college and interned for 2 years. My internship was a very good one, but I still don't refer to it as "real-world" development experience often, because it's different when you're doing 45-50 hours per week, every week, and your job depends on your output to a much larger degree than does an internship.

Point being, I would not claim that I have 8 years of real-world work experience when I don't. When I was job searching at other places than where I interned, I referred to myself as an entry-level developer even though I had 2 years of development "experience" in a CMMI level 3 organization and had earned a Master's degree. It did not affect my pay negatively. In fact, I believe that the companies where I interviewed considered me as realistic with my assessment of myself and gave me better offers because of it. I have known too many friends who walk into interviews and look like complete asses because what they put on their resume does not match their experience level.
 
Indeed, this is a huge red flag. When reading resumes, if I find that kind of disparity, they won't get a call back.
 
Hey hey woah woah there, I was trying to point out that having a varied background with lots of experience, can be very beneficial. I straight up said that only the past few years were dev work (even in the earlier posts). Never was I trying to claim otherwise, and my resume doesnt claim otherwise either... Try to read the lines, not in-between the lines :)

EDIT: Also if you see the salary numbers I have posted they seems to line up with other numbers posted in this thread for similar amounts of experience.
 
mikeblas said:
For a developer just out of school, I can't imagine paying more than 60K regardless of the languages or technologies with which they claim to be familiar. It's easy to adjust salary up; it's harder to adjust salary down or terminate someone.
Click to expand...

QFT. Too many unknowns.

In the Seattle area, every entry level .NET developer I know (and know their salary) started at ~55K(1099) or 40K-50K (W2)... but generally (unless they were working for a smaller company / startup / low budget) earned raises fairly quickly (3-12 months) as they demonstrated their value to the organization.

I know, I know, Salary.com says a "Software Engineer I" will earn 95K/yr with 0-1 years of experience... but you must consider the Salary.com business model. Their goal is to sell you a salary presentation to assist you with soliciting a raise from your employer. How many do you think they would sell if the "average" person made an "average" salary? (not very many). They will sell far more product if the "average" person earns a salary ~1-2 standard deviations below the mean. (And by mean, I mean "mean")


extide said:
EDIT: Also if you see the salary numbers I have posted they seems to line up with other numbers posted in this thread for similar amounts of experience.
Click to expand...

My experience is that people (not pointing anyone out, just a general trend) tend to exaggerate in online forums. Particularly in regards to salary.


However, for:
1. Very talented or creative software developers.
2. Developers with a lot of experience, particularly a strong background with "in-demand" managed language like C# or Java plus excellent database experience (strong understanding of how databases work, query optimization, database architecture, etc).
3. Developers who do not require close supervision to get anything done.
4. Developers who enjoy putting in long hours to get the job done.
(or some combination of these 4)
...then yes, you'll easily start to see the salaries posted on Salary.com - and quite a bit higher!

The thing that most managers know is that in Software Development there is a large disparity between "good' and "poor" developers...
 
It doesn't matter if the numbers came from salary.com, some other site, or some other person. Nothing in this life is guaranteed. Things like salary are, in particular, completely situational
 
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