Need help with new rig for audio editing

[yertandus]

I'm looking to put together a new rig, I haven't built a new PC in like 8 years and i'm totally out of the loop. Everything is different now! It's time for me to get a decent desktop, as the work i'm doing can no longer be handled by an affordable laptop. I'm mostly into audio/video production/editing and some gaming.


1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Audio editing and in-DAW Production. Cubase, FLStudio, soundforge, adobe products, light gaming.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Under $1,200 if possible including shipping. My budget is semi-flexible but I'm not looking to spend any more than I have to.
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

USA, Anchorage Alaska.
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
The case and all that goes into it, except the sound card. I'll purchase that later. Basically, everything in my PCHound link.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Not reusing anything. I'll get the sound card/audio interface later, and I have a mouse and keyboard. I'll decide on a couple monitors or HDTVs after I get the rig together.
6) Will you be overclocking?
Not at this time.
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
***
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
ASAP, I can't do any production work until it arrives.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
Nothing fancy for me, usb 3.0 would be nice. Any advice here?
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
I have windows 7, might upgrade. Out of the loop when it comes to modern windows, any advice here as well?


Here's my PCHound link: https://pchound.com/B8vVPa/ I've noticed that other versions of the video card are more expensive. Any Advice on that particular card/card manufacturer? I'm not into heavy gaming, but I'd like to be able to run indie steam games and maybe some older FPSs. Also, how much do you think the speed of my ram will be an issue? From what I understand, it's not a huge deal. Also also, I'm thinking of grabbing a 256gb SSD instead of the 2gb hard drive, come to think of it I have an extra sata drive laying around, anyway. I can just use that as a slave. Any thoughts on the motherboard or anything else? I've noticed that the mobo has a bunch of built in audio stuff, i'm probably just going to be using a sound card anyway, so that stuff doesnt matter and hopefully won't be any weird issues there. Will everything fit in that case? Is there anything you guys recommend changing? Thanks in advance and I appreciate any input. Sorry for the long-winded post.

 

[Dangman]

Any chance that you can wait a week? I say that because Intel's SKylake platform is releasing this week so it would be a good idea to get the latest and greatest platform available.

 

[Deleted member 88227]

I would highly suggest doing what Dangman suggested and wait a week.

Though a few problems with that build.

That PSU is crap and you should go with a SSD instead of an HDD. RAM seems to be a little on the expensive side when you can get 16GB of DDR3 RAM for around $80 or less now-a-days. Motherboard is also overpriced when you can get a motherboard for your needs for about $120 - $130 or less.

 

[Zepher]

I would try and add an SSD to that build, 512GB for the OS and Apps.

 

[yertandus]

Well, from what I understand the skylake i5 6600 is available for sale, no i7 6700 yet. I'm not sure that I fully understand the technical aspects, or how this processor would compare to the $340 one I chose on my last pchound build, but I put together a new pchound link with a z170 motherboard, dd4 ram, and an SSD drive. Does this build look better to you guys? Once again, i'm mostly going to be doing audio/video editing, and some light gaming. Even with the SSD and upgrade to the new chipset, new power supply, and ddr4, it's actually a cheaper build, although i'm not sure how the processor compares for the price. https://pchound.com/omyR9a/

 

[Deleted member 88227]

That is a shitty PSU that is only capable of 650W in real world conditions at best.

Not to mention WAY over kill for your power requirements according to HardOCP's testing of the GTX 960. A card that only draws 244W under full load at the wall. Even an Overclocked G1 Edition card only pulled 264W at the wall.

So I think you need to rethink your PSU choice.

You're not overclocking, why the need for an aftermarket CPU cooler? Noise maybe? Even the stock coolers isn't all that loud compared to the GPU's cooler. Just a thought. No need to spend money you wont benefit from.

 

[Dangman]

Well, from what I understand the skylake i5 6600 is available for sale, no i7 6700 yet. I'm not sure that I fully understand the technical aspects, or how this processor would compare to the $340 one I chose on my last pchound build, but I put together a new pchound link with a z170 motherboard, dd4 ram, and an SSD drive. Does this build look better to you guys? Once again, i'm mostly going to be doing audio/video editing, and some light gaming. Even with the SSD and upgrade to the new chipset, new power supply, and ddr4, it's actually a cheaper build, although i'm not sure how the processor compares for the price. https://pchound.com/omyR9a/

The new i7 6700 is going to be about 5 to 8% faster than the 4790K CPU you originally chose. I would not go for the i5 6600 in your case. If you can't wait the extra two weeks for the 6700K to get into stock, go with your first PCHound list but change the following:
1) Add the SSD from the second PCHound list.

2) Ditch the shitty PSU and go with this higher quality PSU:
$84 - Seasonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W Modular PSU

3) That G.Skill RAM is overpriced. Go with this Kingston RAM instead:
$80 - Kingston HyperX FURY HX316C10FK2/16 2x8GB DDR3 1600 RAM

4) That motherboard is overkill for your needs. You haven't mentioned anything that would make me think that mobo is a good choice for you. I recommend this motherboard instead:
$98 - MSI Z97 PC MATE Intel Z97 ATX Motherboard

 

[yertandus]

Well, after much research, it seems i'd have at least two weeks to wait before the 6700k becomes available in north america. Could be longer. Some companies have them in stock for prebuilt custom PCs.. I've been looking at cyberpowerPC, and after I googled promo codes, the price for the rig I want ended up being almost exactly the same as the price on my pchound build was for the same parts. They throw in a mouse and some other crap, what is probably a nicer case, a warranty, slap it together for me and ship it to me. I won't have to wait for the 6700 to come around retail on newegg if I go the prebuilt route. Shipping to alaska would be $125.00 for the pc, not sure what shipping would cost me individually for all those parts... Grand total: $1,269.75 shipped to my door though cyberpower. Here's my new pchound link to compare. Same parts as cyperpower. skylake 6700k, z170 chipset, ddr4 2800, and 480gb SSD instead of regular hd. https://pchound.com/0swwBn/ total $1,129.84 before shipping. Should I just pull the trigger and get the prebuilt? Seems like a fair price to be honest.

 

[Dangman]

Well, after much research, it seems i'd have at least two weeks to wait before the 6700k becomes available in north america. Could be longer. Some companies have them in stock for prebuilt custom PCs.. I've been looking at cyberpowerPC, and after I googled promo codes, the price for the rig I want ended up being almost exactly the same as the price on my pchound build was for the same parts. They throw in a mouse and some other crap, what is probably a nicer case, a warranty, slap it together for me and ship it to me. I won't have to wait for the 6700 to come around retail on newegg if I go the prebuilt route. Shipping to alaska would be $125.00 for the pc, not sure what shipping would cost me individually for all those parts... Grand total: $1,269.75 shipped to my door though cyberpower. Here's my new pchound link to compare. Same parts as cyperpower. skylake 6700k, z170 chipset, ddr4 2800, and 480gb SSD instead of regular hd. https://pchound.com/0swwBn/ total $1,129.84 before shipping. Should I just pull the trigger and get the prebuilt? Seems like a fair price to be honest.

Absolutely not. That's a bad idea.

UNless you absolutely suck at building a PC, more than likely whatever you build will be on par if not better as a CyberpowerPC built PC in terms of assembly quality. In addition, shipping a gaming PC as a whole is inherently more risky than shipping the parts individually. Also, that should be any problems with the PC that requires you to send back the PC, you're on the hook for the costs of shipping the PC back. Not to mention that a few of those parts aren't even that good in the first place. Plus, most of those parts have a three year warranty on their own anyway.

CyberpowerPC is cheap for a reason. There's a good reason why good PC boutiques like Puget Systems or Maingear costs significantly more. So unless you like buying shoddily built poorly specced that will arrive damaged PCs, just build it yourself.

 

[yertandus]

Good point about the warranty and shipping costs. Everyone I know, and pretty much everybody on this forum, seems to be saying to hold on for the Skylake. I almost broke down and bought another proc because waiting another two weeks, or a month, or who knows how long, to get a 6700k is just so tough for me right now. I'm not getting anything done without a PC and its killing me! The only reason I was looking at cyberpower is because they have that shit right now. If I could order the whole thing and ask them not to screw it together, I would. It's unlikely it will show up broken, they are a huge company and they ship out tons of orders every day. I know a lady who can't build her own, and she has been ordering her computers from them for something like nearly 15 years. Never had any problems. It's not rocket science to clip a couple things in and turn a few screws, but I guess it would give me peace of mind to do it myself. You were right, also, about puget and maingear costing a lot more. Maingear doesn't even have the parts, and puget quoted me like a full $1,000 more somehow for the same specs. I just don't know if its worth getting it now versus waiting, when I do have to deal with the whole thing shipping out at once as a whole unit, which as you said, can be risky. Then again... who knows how long I will have to wait if I decide to get the parts. I wonder how much shipping will cost me for those parts also individually. Guess I should go check on that. Maybe you are right, man. I don't know. I'm going to sleep on it, I guess. I'll decide tomorrow. Thanks for the input guys!

 

[Dangman]

Good point about the warranty and shipping costs. Everyone I know, and pretty much everybody on this forum, seems to be saying to hold on for the Skylake. I almost broke down and bought another proc because waiting another two weeks, or a month, or who knows how long, to get a 6700k is just so tough for me right now. I'm not getting anything done without a PC and its killing me! The only reason I was looking at cyberpower is because they have that shit right now. If I could order the whole thing and ask them not to screw it together, I would. It's unlikely it will show up broken, they are a huge company and they ship out tons of orders every day.

Just because it shows up on stock on CyberpowerPC's website doesn't necessarily mean they actually have it. It's a common tactic to get orders since this bit is in their FAQ:
https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/faq/

Order processes immediately after you submit your order. Usually it takes about five to ten business days to have your order ready prior to shipment.

Note the bolded portion. That means regular weekdays, not counting weekends. As such, if you were to order it this weekend, the order processing doesn't start till August 10, a Monday. They can delay your order up to August 21st if not longer. In fact, on CyberpowerPC's website itself for the Back TO School Special I, they estimate that it won't be until August 19th at the earliest that your PC will be shipped. And thats for a 4690K CPU that they should already have in massive stock. Now imagine the potential wait with a newly released CPU that they more than likely allocated to PCs being resold by big box retailers/B&M stores

I know a lady who can't build her own, and she has been ordering her computers from them for something like nearly 15 years. Never had any problems. It's not rocket science to clip a couple things in and turn a few screws, but I guess it would give me peace of mind to do it myself.

Trust me when I say this: They don't take care during assembly. Just it's not hard to build a PC but it is easy to not take care when building a PC.

You were right, also, about puget and maingear costing a lot more. Maingear doesn't even have the parts, and puget quoted me like a full $1,000 more somehow for the same specs. I just don't know if its worth getting it now versus waiting, when I do have to deal with the whole thing shipping out at once as a whole unit, which as you said, can be risky. Then again... who knows how long I will have to wait if I decide to get the parts. I wonder how much shipping will cost me for those parts also individually. Guess I should go check on that. Maybe you are right, man. I don't know. I'm going to sleep on it, I guess. I'll decide tomorrow. Thanks for the input guys!

As I showed above, no matter what, you're going to end up waiting for that 6700K whether you buy it from a PC Boutique or wait for it get into stock on supposedly August 14th.

So it really depends on whether or not you really can't wait for that 5 to 10% performance increase and possibility of greater RAM density. If you do decide to go with CyberpowerPC, at least choose good parts as some of those parts weren't that good.

 

[yertandus]

All of that makes sense. I found a 6700k for sale. Some dude bought it from europe and is reselling it i presume. I paid like a 70 dollar markup. I'm in too much of a hurry to wait any longer to be honest. I went ahead and ordered everything individually instead of going through cyberpower since I found the processor. Hopefully everything will go well. I actually ended up going with the mobo and psu that you suggested, and a 480gb ssd, although i splurged a bit on the ram. I think it should work out well. Including the audio equipment I ordered I have spent like 3,000 bucks today. Kind of stressful! Hope it all works out, and thanks again for the input, fellas!

 

[Dangman]

All of that makes sense. I found a 6700k for sale. Some dude bought it from europe and is reselling it i presume. I paid like a 70 dollar markup. I'm in too much of a hurry to wait any longer to be honest. I went ahead and ordered everything individually instead of going through cyberpower since I found the processor. Hopefully everything will go well. I actually ended up going with the mobo and psu that you suggested, and a 480gb ssd, although i splurged a bit on the ram. I think it should work out well. Including the audio equipment I ordered I have spent like 3,000 bucks today. Kind of stressful! Hope it all works out, and thanks again for the input, fellas!

WAIT NO! The mobo I recommended was for the LGA 1150 platform, the older platform you were originally planning on buying. It is completely incompatible with the LGA 1151 CPU that you just bought. You try putting in that CPU into that mobo and you damage both. CANCEL THAT MOBO ORDER ASAP.

What were the other parts that you bought?

 

[rive22]

also get a backup hdd. A WD external should suffice. You want to protect your music creations man.

And whenever you get around to it down the road, I highly recommend a large 40"+ 4k screen for audio production. The increased Real Estate is God. or 1440p at minimum.

 

[silk186]

Lol, seriously buddy. Have some patience and borrow a laptop for a week or two. You shouldn't rush into this as you will probably keep the computer for 5 years.

 

[horrorshow]

WAIT NO!

LMFAO!!

I know this is no laughing matter, but I could practically see Dangman yelling this while reaching his hand out toward the screen....

 

[Dangman]

LMFAO!!

I know this is no laughing matter, but I could practically see Dangman yelling this while reaching his hand out toward the screen....

To be honest, I did do exactly that.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

This is such a mess... You can be impatient when you know what you're doing. You can't be impatient when you have no idea what you're doing.

 

[Zepher]

What audio gear did you order?

 

[yertandus]

dangman: Lol! I got a compatible mobo, my mistake. It's the z170a pc mate, not the z97.
-z170a pc mate
-6700k
-4gb evga gtx960
-550w gold seasonic psu
-480gb ssd
-16gb (2x8) 2666 ddr4 crucial ballistix ram
-antec quiet case
-arctic freezer 7 pro rev 2 fan
the new skylakes don't come with a fan.

rive22: I totally agree. I have been trying to decide on a big monitor, or a 4k tv. I'm concerned there may be issues with my eyes sitting right in front of a big tv for tons of hours all the time, but it would be cheaper than getting a similar sized monitor, even if I got a 4k tv. I have several backups! Indeed very important.

zepher: the gear I got was yamaha hs8 reference monitors, an hs10 sub, scarlett audio interface, cables, pads, etc.

Thanks again guys! I'm pretty sure the stuff I got will work out, I just wanted to hear some opinions from some people who have been around lately. Like I said, I haven't built a new pc in quite a few years, and everything is different now. After all, i've been producing on an amd athlon 2 quad core proc, 8gb ram, with a gtx460 for gaming. It's a significant enough upgrade to help me smooth out my performance issues, coupled with the fact that the audio interface should help share the load I think.

edit: Maybe should have gone with a bigger PSU, actually!

 

[horrorshow]

Swap out that crummy Arctic Freezer 7 Pro with a Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...99&cm_re=hyper_212_evo-_-35-103-099-_-Product

 

[Dangman]

dangman: Lol! I got a compatible mobo, my mistake. It's the z170a pc mate, not the z97.
-z170a pc mate
-6700k
-4gb evga gtx960
-550w gold seasonic psu
-480gb ssd
-16gb (2x8) 2666 ddr4 crucial ballistix ram
-antec quiet case
-arctic freezer 7 pro rev 2 fan
the new skylakes don't come with a fan.

UNfortunately you still rushed into this and made some poor buys:
1) The GTX 960 isn't fast enough to take advantage of the 4GB of VRAM. As such, the GTX 960 2GB card would have been enough.

2) You didn't mention the model or manufacturer of that 480GB SSD. In general, 480GB SSDs tend to be on the low quality side of SSDs. Hence why many of the better SSD models we recommend, the Crucial Bx100 and Samsung 850 Evo tend to be in the 500GB+ range.

3) Which Antec quiet case? Not all of them are actually good. Even the decent Antec quiet case is overshadowed by better cases.

4) That HSF is completely outdated in this day and age as well as stupidly overpriced. The Coolermaster Hyper 212+ isn't that much more but cools significantly better while being far quieter as well. Unless you bought a small case, there's really no real justification for the Freezer 7 Pro these days.

The only part that you really didn't make a mistake on was the PSU. It's more than enough power.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

2) You didn't mention the model or manufacturer of that 480GB SSD. In general, 480GB SSDs tend to be on the low quality side of SSDs. Hence why many of the better SSD models we recommend, the Crucial Bx100 and Samsung 850 Evo tend to be in the 500GB+ range.

I've been meaning to ask this for a good while, but do you have any foundation for the SSD assertions you are making? I don't see any supporting evidence. I also find it odd that you recommend people to beta test Samsung's newest lines as an alternative, when they already messed up with the 840 EVO after some time (which took a while to get straightened out). Mean while there are old, reliable MLC drives such as the Crucial 480GB M500 (just an example, I realize it is OOS in many places) which have no widespread reported issues (afaik, feel free to prove this wrong). There is also little to no real world performance gain by going to the latest and greatest...

I have a PNY 480GB CS drive in my laptop, and a PNY 240GB that has been working fine for 2 years, and I'm using a Crucial M500 960GB as my boot drive. Which has also been working fine for a year now. The last thing I would do is go join the Samsung Experiment (TM). At least not for another 1-2 years. IIRC their warranty and customer support tend to be very crummy, too.

 

[Dangman]

I've been meaning to ask this for a good while, but do you have any foundation for the SSD assertions you are making? I don't see any supporting evidence. I also find it odd that you recommend people to beta test Samsung's newest lines as an alternative, when they already messed up with the 840 EVO after some time (which took a while to get straightened out). Mean while there are old, reliable MLC drives such as the Crucial 480GB M500 (just an example, I realize it is OOS in many places) which have no widespread reported issues (afaik, feel free to prove this wrong). There is also little to no real world performance gain by going to the latest and greatest...

I have a PNY 480GB CS drive in my laptop, and a PNY 240GB that has been working fine for 2 years, and I'm using a Crucial M500 960GB as my boot drive. Which has also been working fine for a year now. The last thing I would do is go join the Samsung Experiment (TM). At least not for another 1-2 years.

I did say "In general". There are exceptions like the older Crucial M500 you brought up or the Intel 530 or 730 series SSDs. But since those SSDs are either out of stock or very expensive, they're for all intents and purposes not viable buys and not quite reflective of what the average HardOCP member might buy. In any case, the main reason why I find many of the 480GB SSDs to be of low quality is due to the fact that the majority of them use Sandforce controllers. To me, Sandforce has too much of a bad history for me to ever recommend them unless they're in an Intel SSD.

I'm personally using the Samsung 840 Evo 250GB SSD right now. Yes there have been issues but at the end of the day, I'd rather use Samsung or Crucial than any SSD using the Sandforce controller.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

I did say "In general". There are exceptions like the older Crucial M500 you brought up or the Intel 530 or 730 series SSDs. But since those SSDs are either out of stock or very expensive, they're for all intents and purposes not viable buys and not quite reflective of what the average HardOCP member might buy. In any case, the main reason why I find many of the 480GB SSDs to be of low quality is due to the fact that the majority of them use Sandforce controllers. To me, Sandforce has too much of a bad history for me to ever recommend them unless they're in an Intel SSD.

I'm personally using the Samsung 840 Evo 250GB SSD right now. Yes there have been issues but at the end of the day, I'd rather use Samsung or Crucial than any SSD using the Sandforce controller.

That kind of sounds like a personal perception issue. Technologies may start out clunky but get honed over time. Just because they had a bad history doesn't mean they're bad now, especially after years of testing down the road. By your logic, the 840 EVO having had major issues at some point means you'd want to avoid Samsung beta lines. But you don't. To me that is a smidgen weird to me.

That being said, I looked up some Sandforce issue and it does appear to have an abnormally high amount of issues throughout its adoption years. On the other hand, I've looked up various SSD's at exactly 480GB. Many of them don't even use Sandforce. I looked up some Sandisk, PNY, and Mushkin. The only ones that did use Sandforce were Mushkin. Sandisk used Marvel. PNY used Silicon Motion on their CS line. I didn't look up Kingston, but iirc Kingston uses async nand and sucks in general (aside from their something or other pro line).

I respect your advice regarding cases and PSU's, but your perception of SSD's is founded information that may be long gone. It may be time for some updates to that database, although surely telling everyone to just get Samsung and Corsair is simple...

 

[Dangman]

That kind of sounds like a personal perception issue. Technologies may start out clunky but get honed over time. Just because they had a bad history doesn't mean they're bad now, especially after years of testing down the road. By your logic, the 840 EVO having had major issues at some point means you'd want to avoid Samsung beta lines. But you don't. To me that is a smidgen weird to me.

That being said, I looked up some Sandforce issue and it does appear to have an abnormally high amount of issues throughout its adoption years. On the other hand, I've looked up various SSD's at exactly 480GB. Many of them don't even use Sandforce. I looked up some Sandisk, PNY, and Mushkin. The only ones that did use Sandforce were Mushkin. Sandisk used Marvel. PNY used Silicon Motion on their CS line. I didn't look up Kingston, but iirc Kingston uses async nand and sucks in general (aside from their something or other pro line).

I respect your advice regarding cases and PSU's, but your perception of SSD's is founded information that may be long gone. It may be time for some updates to that database, although surely telling everyone to just get Samsung and Corsair is simple...

With Samsung, they had a long solid track record until the 840 Evo issues cropped up. Even with the 840 Evo issues, Samsung still tried to fix the issues and there are workarounds for when those fixes don't stick. In other words, they maintained their reputation if not built it up.

With Sandforce, the only way to "fix" the inherent Sandforce issues to buy a whole other SSD. In addition, Sandforce was relatively troublesome at the start so it never had a chance to built a good reputation before issues appeared. Since then, I haven't seen anything showing that Sandforce or companies that uses Sandforce SSDs have a cost to performance as well as reliability and customer support level to justify them over Samsung or Crucial.

Kingston uses Sandforce for the most part. In addition, depending on when you buy, the PNY Optima SSDs can come with Sandforce SSDs. Silicon Power sometimes uses Sandforce depending on when you buy the S60 line. Of the 44 available 480GB SSDs being sold by Newegg, 20 of them are Sandforce. So not quite a majority as I said but still a significant amount.

Even if I was to discount the Sandforce issues, 480GB SSDs don't make that much sense of a purchase at the moment. Right now the Crucial BX100 500GB and Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSDs are $169 and $178 respectively. None of the 480GB SSDs available now in the price range are cheap enough as well as good enough to justify purchasing over the Crucial and Samsung SSDs.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

I can't really find much information about past SSD issues. I wish there was some large archive where they kept that stuff. Some data I'd like to see:
- How long all of the companies have been making SSDs (ie first release dates)
- Which lines had trouble on all of them
But heck no one wants to dig all that up. So I can't really support or refute your first few statements.

Kingston uses Sandforce for the most part. In addition, depending on when you buy, the PNY Optima SSDs can come with Sandforce SSDs. Silicon Power sometimes uses Sandforce depending on when you buy the S60 line. Of the 44 available 480GB SSDs being sold by Newegg, 20 of them are Sandforce. So not quite a majority as I said but still a significant amount.

Plenty of testers have found that those Sandforce-based PNY Optimas are the same as (if not superior to) their counterparts in performance. Either way I only pulled up PNY and Sandisk for now. Sandisk has well-regarded lines. I'm going to go ahead and say that PNY very likely stopped using Sandforce in their latest rebadge into the CS line.

Even if I was to discount the Sandforce issues, 480GB SSDs don't make that much sense of a purchase at the moment. Right now the Crucial BX100 500GB and Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSDs are $169 and $178 respectively. None of the 480GB SSDs available now in the price range are cheap enough as well as good enough to justify purchasing over the Crucial and Samsung SSDs.

Actually they kind of do. The CS1111 from PNY, even when it's not on sale, is currently 150$.
It leads the $/GB charts:
http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/internal-hard-drive/#t=0&sort=a7&page=1
It also went on sale before for 140$, and in fact the 240GB line is an exceptionally good buy at this very moment. Amazon's page blatantly says it uses MLC, and the controller is Silicon Motion. MLC has been in circulation for a long time, and I would trust it much more than TLC or Samsung's new beta technology (like TLC was on their 840 Evos...). Plus the cost savings on a budget build could easily bump you up to a better case or PSU. PNY at least makes plenty of sense, and when they go on sale Sandisk sometimes does as well.

 

[Dangman]

I can't really find much information about past SSD issues. I wish there was some large archive where they kept that stuff. Some data I'd like to see:
- How long all of the companies have been making SSDs (ie first release dates)
- Which lines had trouble on all of them
But heck no one wants to dig all that up. So I can't really support or refute your first few statements.

Actually there is one way to look at past SSD failures. Although it's in French and really only applies to one French computer hardware retailer but still helpful:
http://www.hardware.fr/tag/757/taux-retour.html

Google Chrome should automatically translate the pages into English. Select the SSD page/link once you click on a "Dossier" link. OCZ tended to have the highest failure rates with many of their SSDs being Sandforce based. If you look at this year's results:
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/934-7/ssd.html

It seems that Sandisk SSD failures have increased from last year:
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/927-7/ssd.html

Plenty of testers have found that those Sandforce-based PNY Optimas are the same as (if not superior to) their counterparts in performance. Either way I only pulled up PNY and Sandisk for now. Sandisk has well-regarded lines. I'm going to go ahead and say that PNY very likely stopped using Sandforce in their latest rebadge into the CS line.

Doesn't matter if the Sandforce was supposedly just as good. The fact that the controller is still different from what you're told. And as noted above, according to one French computer hardware retailer, Sandisk SSD failure overall is higher than other brands.

Actually they kind of do. The CS1111 from PNY, even when it's not on sale, is currently 150$.
It leads the $/GB charts:
http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/internal-hard-drive/#t=0&sort=a7&page=1
It also went on sale before for 140$, and in fact the 240GB line is an exceptionally good buy at this very moment. Amazon's page blatantly says it uses MLC, and the controller is Silicon Motion. MLC has been in circulation for a long time, and I would trust it much more than TLC or Samsung's new beta technology (like TLC was on their 840 Evos...). Plus the cost savings on a budget build could easily bump you up to a better case or PSU. PNY at least makes plenty of sense, and when they go on sale Sandisk sometimes does as well.

That's a good deal....if you trust PNY. For myself, I can't really recommend PNY in general due to my experiences with their RMA service as both a regular ol' customer and via my work's experiences with their RMA department. Maybe your RMA experiences is better but for myself personally, PNY burned that bridge.

At least from what limited data we have, Samsung and Crucial still have relatively low failure rates.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

Actually there is one way to look at past SSD failures. Although it's in French and really only applies to one French computer hardware retailer but still helpful:
http://www.hardware.fr/tag/757/taux-retour.html

Google Chrome should automatically translate the pages into English. Select the SSD page/link once you click on a "Dossier" link. OCZ tended to have the highest failure rates with many of their SSDs being Sandforce based. If you look at this year's results:
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/934-7/ssd.html

It seems that Sandisk SSD failures have increased from last year:
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/927-7/ssd.html

I think I've seen that before... but it's just one French etailer. Way too little data to go on. For all we know they might have in general received one tiny batch out of international production. Most of which would very likely to go the United States. I wish we could get data from Newegg and Amazon (and for some wet data dreaming, I suppose Microcenter would be nice too). Now THAT would be definitive.

Doesn't matter if the Sandforce was supposedly just as good.

Well if that doesn't matter, I suppose that Samsung having their disaster with the 840 EVO should matter? Again, they're going with the next experimental tech, after the last one failed out. To me, that raises warning flags. The type that say "Samsung is experimenting with new tech; wait until it has been tested for a year or two". Their MLC lines were great. Just like most other peoples' MLC lines (controller issues aside I suppose)?

But it's a fair enough point. People don't like getting lied to. As shown by the 3.5GB debacle. You know which one I'm talking about. Granted it has died down considerably.

That's a good deal....if you trust PNY. For myself, I can't really recommend PNY in general due to my experiences with their RMA service as both a regular ol' customer and via my work's experiences with their RMA department. Maybe your RMA experiences is better but for myself personally, PNY burned that bridge.

At least from what limited data we have, Samsung and Crucial still have relatively low failure rates.

Again, that's not much data. As for PNY's warranty services, I can't really comment. I've never had anything PNY actually fail on me. My two PNY SSD's have been working fine. Most warranty experiences are anecdotal, but if widespread anecdote is anything to go on, I'm surprised ASUS gets any recommendations in this section for ANY part at all. Motherboard, GPU, etc. Why buy it from ASUS when you regularly have topics pop up about how horrid experiences with their warranty is? It seems to be a consistent trend.

Actually I would like for you to comment on Samsung's warranty services. Because I haven't heard much good about that. Apparently you have some good experience with it, because you are lambasting PNY's warranty services while not doing the same for Samsung's.

 

[Dangman]

I think I've seen that before... but it's just one French etailer. Way too little data to go on. For all we know they might have in general received one tiny batch out of international production. Most of which would very likely to go the United States. I wish we could get data from Newegg and Amazon (and for some wet data dreaming, I suppose Microcenter would be nice too). Now THAT would be definitive.

I totally understand that it's just one French etailer. But it's still SOME evidence of SSD failures. I'd rather have some evidence then no evidence. Of course I would also want data from Newegg and Amazon but that's not going to happen. Another small piece of data showing the reliability of Samsung SSDs as purchased, used, and sold by one U.S PC boutique:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Most-Reliable-Hardware-of-2014-616/#HardDrive

Well if that doesn't matter, I suppose that Samsung having their disaster with the 840 EVO should matter? Again, they're going with the next experimental tech, after the last one failed out. To me, that raises warning flags. The type that say "Samsung is experimenting with new tech; wait until it has been tested for a year or two". Their MLC lines were great. Just like most other peoples' MLC lines (controller issues aside I suppose)?

But it's a fair enough point. People don't like getting lied to. As shown by the 3.5GB debacle. You know which one I'm talking about. Granted it has died down considerably.

The issue with Samsung 840 Evo does matter. But it's not as big of an issue, to me at least, compared to Kingston and PNY swapping controllers for a known so-so controller without informing others. At least with the Samsung issues, there were fixes. With the Kingston and PNY, what could you really do? Can't exactly fix that on your own without spending money on buying another SSD.

Again, that's not much data. As for PNY's warranty services, I can't really comment. I've never had anything PNY actually fail on me. My two PNY SSD's have been working fine. Most warranty experiences are anecdotal, but if widespread anecdote is anything to go on, I'm surprised ASUS gets any recommendations in this section for ANY part at all. Motherboard, GPU, etc. Why buy it from ASUS when you regularly have topics pop up about how horrid experiences with their warranty is? It seems to be a consistent trend.

Actually I would like for you to comment on Samsung's warranty services. Because I haven't heard much good about that. Apparently you have some good experience with it, because you are lambasting PNY's warranty services while not doing the same for Samsung's.

Again, some data is better than no data. If you actually stay in this subforum long enough, you'll see, at least on my part, a decreasing trend in recommending Asus parts. With that said, Asus has a lot of institutional marketing inertia going for it so despite the sheer number of complaints about its customer support/warranty/quality, there's enough other people out there to promote the Asus brand. Just like how people keep hearing "AMD is the better bang for the buck value" when it comes to CPUs and gaming even though that's not really true these days. Or how some people recommend and/or buy Corsair PSus despite their diminishing quality. Just thoughts that won't really die.

For my own personal use, I've never had any Samsung part fail. For my company's use, Samsung was just normal. No hassle but not exactly above and beyond. Just normal.