Need help with building 2 SFF computers

[AFanCorp]

Yay for first post asking how to build computers. =LD
>> totally not implying that I won't be active on the forums trololol.


1. What will you be doing with this PC?

The primary one will be used for photoshop and maya. I don't game too much now-a-days, but if I do, its EvE 90% of the time.

The second computer will will serve like a back-up computer. E-mail and browsing the internets. I'm going to throw photoshop on here for any situation my main one goes out the window.

2. What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included in this budget? Is your budget flexible? Is cost a driving factor in component selection?

$1,500 ± 300 after tax and shipping. If I can get away with it cheaper, the better.

3. Where do you live? Do you have any big B&M (brick and mortar) computer chains nearby (e.g. Microcenter, Fry's, etc)?

There are plenty of computer chains nearby me. Some more reputable than others. Though for specifics, I lives in Canada.

4. What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!1111111 jk

Cases, motherboards, processor/s, videocard/s, powersupply/s,

5. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. For reused parts, list brands, model #s, and, if applicable, firmware revisions.

To try and keep costs down, salvageable parts (not necessarily using them all) I have at my disposal are...

AMD Phenom II x4 955 BE
AMD Athlon x2 3800+ (might be dumping)
4x4 GB Corsair XMS3 RAM 1333 cl9
2x2 GB Patriot Sector 5 RAM 1333 cl7 (One of them I need to fix the heatsink)
2x1 GB DDR2 RAM (might be dumping)
Thermaltake 850w TR2 RX PSU
Zotac GTX 285 (might be dumping, been getting too many compatibility problems)
Hard Drives (I seem to have a farm of Sata/Sata II/IDE HDDs in various sizes)

6. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc. Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? Make sure you indicate *required* vs. *wanted* for each feature you list.

*required*
USB 3.0
I've been getting more usb 3.0 external HDDs, and will be expecting to use more usb 3.0 accessories.
Relatively Small
Lacking room for my full/mid towers. I also prefer horizontal over vertical layouts.

*wanted*
Sata 6.0 Gb/s
Been reading that the mainstream SSDs are having a hard time beating 3.0 Gb/s.
Fast read/write


7. What resolution output do you need? 1080p, 720p, DVD quality, etc for HTPC or list Vertical/horizontal resolution for non-HTPC SFF rigs. Do you need multiple monitor output?

1920x1200 for both computers, and dual monitors for I'll be using a cintiq + montior.

8. Does this system need to fit into a particular space? Think entertainment center shelves, closet space, rackmount, etc.

Coffe table and dufflebags. =D

9. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? What tools do you have (Screwdrivers/Leatherman, Drill, Dremel, Metal snips, Soldering Iron, Bending Brake, CNC/Welding machines/Plasma cutter, etc...)?

I am very comfortable with modifying my case, though my skills may question me otherwise. I have access to plenty of handheld tools minus welders.

10. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? HTPCs typically want to be quiet while all-out SFF gaming rigs don't care

Quieter the better. Don't have access to sound rooms.

11. How mobile does this system need to be? Need a carrying handle or carrying straps? Is weight important (carry-on bag, etc)? Water cooling quick disconnects, etc?

Weight isn't too much of a concern, but if it hasn't been implied already, it needs to be semi-mobile. Needs to fit a duffle bag.

12. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit? Remember that OEM copies of Win7 have issues with new motherboards

Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit
Windows Vista Ultimate 64 bit

13. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Immediately, in a couple weeks, 3-5 years?

I need one capable of running Photoshop and rendering low poly count on Maya almost immediately. A stronger one for 100k+ poly count not until later in the year. (looking at Q3-4 of the year)


Ideas?

 

[Dangman]

First and foremost: You're gonna have to dump that Thermaltake PSU unless you're planning on building a low power system. That TR2 PSU is a total piece of shit. Since you're planning on a SFF build, that means you're looking at a modular PSU. Check out this XFX PSU (sry don't have Canadian store links ready):
$90 - XFX P1-650X-CAH9 650W Modular PSU

Second, which drives do you have? Drive speed does have major impact on Photoshop speed.

Third, definitely use Vista for the backup rig. The main rig should be using Windows 7.

Fourth, what's the RAM voltage for the DDR3 RAM?

 

[AFanCorp]

CAD and USD are pretty much on par after charges, so the relative pricing shouldn't matter. =P

They are all 7,200 RPM, ranging from 250 to 1 TB.

The patriots are 1.7v, and the corsairs are 1.65v.

 

[Dangman]

CAD and USD are pretty much on par after charges, so the relative pricing shouldn't matter. =P

They are all 7,200 RPM, ranging from 250 to 1 TB.

The patriots are 1.7v, and the corsairs are 1.65v.

Well if you do indeed go for a brand new CPU + mobo + RAM, more than likely it's gonna be an Intel Core i7 2600 or 2600K (if overclocking) build. As such, the Patriot RAM is definitely not being reused as it's past the max RAM voltage for current Intel CPUs, 1.65V. That Corsair RAM should be reusable although cutting it a tad close.

Speaking of overclocking, are there any plans for overclocking in this build?

Unfortunately telling me that they're 7200RPM drives doesn't help at all since rotational speed is just a small factor when it comes to actual hard drive performance. Case in point: There are some 5400RPM drives out there that performs significantly faster than many 7200RPM drives out there due to the 5400 drives being of a newer design as well as greater platter density and lesser number of platters. So gonna need specific models and the number of drives you have.

 

[AFanCorp]

There are times I feel like overclocking, but it wouldn't kill me without it.

They are a variations of Western Digital Caviar Black/Blue and Scorpio Black/Blue. All of them are at least a year old.

 

[Dangman]

There are times I feel like overclocking, but it wouldn't kill me without it.

Ok here's the deal: With current Intel CPUs, you have to choose up front whether or not you want to spend the extra cash to buy an overclocking capable CPU and motherboard. As such, if you go with the Core i7 2600 CPU, you can never overclock. However if you spend the extra $30, you can get the Core i7 2600K which you can overclock. And then there's the motherboards: The overclock capable P67 motherboards generally cost $20 more than their non-overclocking capable H67 motherboard cousins.

They are a variations of Western Digital Caviar Black/Blue and Scorpio Black/Blue. All of them are at least a year old.

Hmm fairly slow drives then.

 

[AFanCorp]

After lurking a while, I wouldn't mind getting the K variant for OC just to push the cost/performance ratio.

Though I'm not sure how far I can push the OC in a SFF case.

Also, I don't have much experience in OCing. The current computer I have is utter crap when I try anything with it. (One of the reasons why I'm wanting a new build/salvage)

 

[Dangman]

After lurking a while, I wouldn't mind getting the K variant for OC just to push the cost/performance ratio.

In that case, these two mobos are pretty much your only choices:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

Video card wise, if you're planning on Adobe CS5 or perhaps even CS6, then you're gonna want an Nvidia card since many of Adobe's products takes advantage of the CUDA feature of Nvidia cards. So look at the GTX 560 Ti as a start.

 

[AFanCorp]

Is it worth getting one for now then wait for the new chipset to buy a second one, or simply buy two?

I've got it narrowed down to this...

Core i5-2500k
ASUS P8P67-M PRO
8GB XMS3 Corsair RAM
PNY GeForce GTX 550 Ti
WD Caviar Black 1TB 64MB
Samsung SE-S084C Slim
Silverstone Sugo SG02

After reading your posts though, is the performance gain significant enough to spearhead the i7-2600k and 560 Ti?

You also mentioned that the HDDs are slow. Is it significant enough of a performance impact do you think to swap over to an SSD?

Considering Crucial C300 64GB/128GB or the OCZ Revos if its worth anything.

 

[Dangman]

Is it worth getting one for now then wait for the new chipset to buy a second one, or simply buy two?

Buy one. I was thinking that you should reuse that AMD Phenom II CPU for the backup rig.

WD Caviar Black 1TB 64MB

No matter which Black 1TB version you went with, it's still gonna be a piss-poor buy since this Samsung drive is a better buy:
$60 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

The above Samsung F3 1TB drive outperforms every WD 1TB Black drive except for the SATA6 version. Even then the SATA 6 Black 1TB is just as fast as the Samsung but costs $20 to $25 more. As such, outside of an extremely good deal on the Black 1TB SATA6, the Samsung F3 1TB is a far better buy than any WD Black 1TB drive.

After reading your posts though, is the performance gain significant enough to spearhead the i7-2600k and 560 Ti?

For Photoshop, not worth going for the 2600K. For Maya and other 3D rendering apps, most likely yes. For gaming at 1920x1080, yes the GTX 560 Ti is worth spending the extra cash for. Not sure about Maya or Photoshop though.

 

[AFanCorp]

My connection hiccuped and couldn't edit the post in time.

Worth the SSD?

 

[Dangman]

My connection hiccuped and couldn't edit the post in time.

Worth the SSD?

Yes the Crucial C300 SSDs are worth getting. Go for the largest you can afford.

 

[AFanCorp]

Thanks a bunch. Didn't think I could get recommendations within the night.

Probably won't be buying till the end of the week, so suggestions are still open.

edit: I'll just throw this in here while I'm at it. Someone mentioned it to me that the x4 955 runs too hot for SFFs. Is that true? If so, fixable?

Poking at changing the AMD into SFF as well.

 

[Dangman]

edit: I'll just throw this in here while I'm at it. Someone mentioned it to me that the x4 955 runs too hot for SFFs. Is that true? If so, fixable?

Poking at changing the AMD into SFF as well.

The Phenom II 955 does run rather hot but it's fixable with a 3rd party HSF and good airflow. Something like the Coolermaster Elite 341 would be a good mATX case for the Phenom

 

[Rody]

that case you posted is mitx, and the motherboard you posted is matx...

 

[Dangman]

that case you posted is mitx, and the motherboard you posted is matx...

None of the cases listed/noted so far are straight-up mITX.

 

[AFanCorp]

I got 2 sugo SG02 cases lined up. I'm hoping that the AMD Phenom won't cook herself.