Need Help Upgrading My PC

[deadman_uk]

My current PC is in my signature and it's showing it's age now. I game at 1920x1200 and am increasingly seeing games that aren't playing well on high/maximum detail. An example of this is The Witcher 2 which runs at 20/30fps. I am also missing features from DiRT 3 since my card is DX10.1.

FIrst the standard template:

1) What will you be doing with this PC?

Photoshop work, minor video editing and of course playing the latest games at the highest detail I can manage.

2) What's your budget?

I don't have a budget but if I can get this for under £650, this would be great.

3) Where do you live?

UK

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?

I am putting together a new PC but taking parts from my existing PC. I am looking to purchase the following:

- Processor
- Processor Cooler (For a modest overclock, nothing extreme)
- Motherboard (must have PCI slots)
- 8GB DDR3 RAM
- Graphics Card 2GB (single)
- Also need a case, but I think I can select this myself. I am currently considering the Zalman Z9-Plus.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?

- Corsair F120 SSD
- 1TB Samsung SATA Hard Drive
- Corsair HX Series 620W
- Creative Sound Blaster X-fi XtremeMusic
- Hauppauge WinTV HVR-4000
- Hyundai W240D-PVA 24"

6) Will you be overclocking?

Yes

7) What size monitor do you have?

Hyundai W240D-PVA 24"

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

Sometime this month (June)

9) What features do you need in a motherboard?

- At least 2 PCI slots
- SATA 6GB
- 4 RAM slots
- USB 3 would be nice

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?

Yes, Windows 7 Home Premium x64


I have done a bit of research and have compiled a list. I am looking for opinions. If you can find ways to save money or increase performance for around the same price, then I would be very grateful. I live in the UK so please consider this when suggesting alternative parts. I plan to purcahse from scan.co.uk but will shop around just before ordering.

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Processor - Intel Core i7 2600k (1155)

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/inte...ad-core-34ghz-gpu-850mhz-8mb-cache-95w-retail


Processor Cooler - Gelid Tranquilo

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/geli...5-1366-1156-1155-and-amd-754-939-940-am2-am2p


Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte-ga-z68x-ud3h-b3-intel-z68-1155-pci-e-20-%28x16%29-ddr3-1866-2133-sata-6gb-s-raid-atx


RAM - Corsair Memory XMS3 8GB DDR3 1333 Mhz

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/8gb-...0-(1333)-non-ecc-unbuffered-cas-9-9-9-24-150v


Graphics Card - XFX HD 6950 2GB
Would get the GTX 570 because of PHYSX but it's £50 more!

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-...gpu-800mhz-1408cores-dl-dvi-i-dvi-hdmi-2x-mdp

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Thanks!

 

[Haiku214]

The reason why you feel that your PC is aging is because of your GPU. There is no harm in upgrading your GPU first and then see what happens.

 

[deadman_uk]

The reason why you feel that your PC is aging is because of your GPU. There is no harm in upgrading your GPU first and then see what happens.

Would my Q9450 bottleneck a 2GB 6950?

Also my 4890 card only just fits inside my case, a 6950 is longer right? I doubt it would even fit.

 

[Haiku214]

Would my Q9450 bottleneck a 2GB 6950?

Also my 4890 card only just fits inside my case, a 6950 is longer right? I doubt it would even fit.

Buying a GPU first will not hurt you. You will definitely notice performance gains.

 

[deadman_uk]

Buying a GPU first will not hurt you. You will definitely notice performance gains.

Again, the size of the card is a real concern, plus I want to look for the future so this can last a good few years. The XFX 6950 is just over 11" so I will need to measure to see if it will fit. I shall do this soon.

 

[Dangman]

Processor - Intel Core i7 2600 (1155)
2600k is £20 more expensive. I doubt I would overclock, I am not that experienced and overclocked my Q9450 to 3.2GHZ based on what everyone else did.

I highly recommend going with the 2600K as it's stupid easy to overclock a 2600K CPU, far easier than it overclocking a Q9450 in fact.

Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-PH67A-UD3-B3 Intel H67 Express (1155)

I don't recommend this mobo at all on account of the fact that it still uses the old BIOs interface rather than the newer UEFI interface.

I recommend getting a Z68 motherboard from Asus or MSI. Or if you really strapped for cash, then the Gigabyte Z68 mobos are ok choices.

RAM - Corsair Memory Vengeance 8GB DDR3 1600 MHz (8-8-8-24)
I'm sure money can be saved here, or was this a good choice?

Yeah you can save money here: You're not going to notice a difference between DDR3 1600 and DDR3 1333 RAM. So you can easily drop down to DDR3 1333 RAM and save some money that way. Also make sure it has a RAM voltage of 1.5V.

Would my Q9450 bottleneck a 2GB 6950?

Also my 4890 card only just fits inside my case, a 6950 is longer right? I doubt it would even fit.

The Q9450 would bottleneck a HD 6950 but not that bad AFAIK. At the very least, it's worth a try as Haiku214 noted. With that said, the length issues is a concern. But might as well get the new case AND GPU now to eliminat3e the length issues.

FYI:
The HD 6950 has a length of 10.5 inches
The HD 6870 has a length of 10 to 10.5 inches
The HD 6850 has a length of 9.5 inches
The HD 4890 has a length of 9.5 inches
The GTX 560 Ti has a length of 9 to 9.5 inches

 

[deadman_uk]

Thanks Danny Bui,

I changed the RAM and saved £14, I've updated my original post. What can the 2600k overclock to on stock cooling without modifying the RAM?

About the motherboard, the Z68's are very expensive. The cheapest one I can find on scan is a Gigabyte GA-Z68A-D3:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/giga...e-20-(x16)-ddr3-1866-2133-sata-3gb-s-raid-atx

Any good? or was my original choice better? I read on newegg (I check this for user comments) that "The board does not support the Hydra chip that the other z68 boards have enabling the fast trans-coding abilities of your new i7, and i5 processor. If you are buying a unit like this just get a good P series board." What does this mean? doesn't sound good to me.

I read the XFX 6950 is 11", not 10.5". EIther way, I will measure how much space I have in my case. I really do want to upgrade the whole system though so it's more future proof.

 

[Dangman]

I changed the RAM and saved £14, I've updated my original post. What can the 2600k overclock to on stock cooling without modifying the RAM?

You gotta read up on the Sandy Bridge CPUs dude: When overclocking the SB CPUs, you don't touch the RAM at all. The RAM is not a factor for overclocking the CPU. So if you had a good enough HSF, you could hit 5Ghz with the 2600K and still be ok with the RAM at DDR3 1333 speeds.

About the motherboard, the Z68's are very expensive. The cheapest one I can find on scan is a Gigabyte GA-Z68A-D3:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/giga...e-20-(x16)-ddr3-1866-2133-sata-3gb-s-raid-atx

Any good? or was my original choice better? I read on newegg (I check this for user comments) that "The board does not support the Hydra chip that the other z68 boards have enabling the fast trans-coding abilities of your new i7, and i5 processor. If you are buying a unit like this just get a good P series board." What does this mean? doesn't sound good to me.

Yeah basically, since that mobo does not come with oboard video output, it's basically gonna be the same as the P67 chipset motherbaords out there. At that point, it's cheaper to get a P67 motherboard. If the Z68 mobo has onboard video, then it's a proper Z68 motherboard and therefore worth getting over a P67 motherboard.

Anyway, if the proper Z68 mobos are too much for you, then I recommend looking at Asus or MSI's P67 motherboards.

 

[deadman_uk]

Yeah basically, since that mobo does not come with oboard video output, it's basically gonna be the same as the P67 chipset motherbaords out there. At that point, it's cheaper to get a P67 motherboard. If the Z68 mobo has onboard video, then it's a proper Z68 motherboard and therefore worth getting over a P67 motherboard.

Anyway, if the proper Z68 mobos are too much for you, then I recommend looking at Asus or MSI's P67 motherboards.

What does onboard video have to do with how good a board is? I would be disabling this feature anyway right? PCI-Express graphics card... or am I missing something?

You dislike the Gigabyte board I selected because it uses a BIOS rather than UEFI? Won't the other P67 boards also have a BIOS? So what reason would you say for not selecting the Gigabyte board? Because it's H67? (no overclocking?)

Here are some P67 boards under £100, all have the features I want but I don't know what one to go for. I am not a fan of MSI at all though.

Gigabyte GA-PH67A-UD3-B3

MSI P67A-C43 B3

MSI P67A-C45 B3

Asus P8P67 LE (Newegg reviews don't sound too good)

A few over £100

MSI P67A-GD53 B3

MSI P67A-GD55 B3

Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD3P-B3

 

[Dangman]

What does onboard video have to do with how good a board is? I would be disabling this feature anyway right? PCI-Express graphics card... oh am I missing something?

In the case of the Z68 chipset, the inclusion of onboard video outputs means that it's a true Z68 motherboard. As such you can take advantage of The Z68's many GPU related features. Read this review to find out more about what the Z68 chipset offers:
http://hardocp.com/article/2011/05/11/asus_p8z68v_pro_z68_chipset_motherboard_review/

I shall look at Asus or MSI P67 boards based on your suggestion. You dislike the Gigabyte board I selected because it uses a BIOS rather than UEFI? Won't the other P67 boards also have a BIOS? So what reason would you say for not selecting the Gigabyte board?

The Asus and MSI P67 mobos all use the UEFI interface, not the BIOs interface. Considering that a lot of Gigabyte P67 motherboards cost the same as their Asus and MSI P67 counterparts, why buy a mobo using older tech when a newer tech mobo costs the same?

 

[E4g1e]

What does onboard video have to do with how good a board is? I would be disabling this feature anyway right? PCI-Express graphics card... or am I missing something?

You dislike the Gigabyte board I selected because it uses a BIOS rather than UEFI? Won't the other P67 boards also have a BIOS? So what reason would you say for not selecting the Gigabyte board? Because it's H67? (no overclocking?)

Here are some P67 boards under £100, all have the features I want but I don't know what one to go for.

Gigabyte GA-PH67A-UD3-B3

MSI P67A-C45 B3

Asus P8P67 LE

Actually, the Gigabyte board that you listed (and what you stated in your original post) uses the H67 chipset, not the P67 chipset. As such, the H67 mobos have virtually no overclocking capability whatsoever (meaning that the multipliers are locked when a K-series CPU is used on an H67 mobo). What's worse, the GA-PH67A-UD3 board actually combines the worst of both worlds: It has no overclocking capability whatsoever (well, the voltages are adjustable - but what good are they if you can't change the CPU clock speed above the CPU's stock non-turbo multiplier at all whatsoever?), combined with the lack of any display outs whatsoever, make this one of the least attractive LGA 1155 mobos on the market. No wonder why Gigabyte has made the mistake of discontinuing all or most of its P67 mobos in favor of H67 and Z68 mobos that have been stripped of their display-out capability (and thus permanently disabling the Sandy Bridge CPUs' integrated graphics capability). In other words, the Gigabyte board you picked is not a true P67 mobo at all - but an H67 mobo that has had its onboard video capabilities permanently disabled in hardware. I see absolutely no value at all whatsoever these days in a motherboard that cannot overclock at all yet requires a discrete graphics card just to even work at all. (And I stated this as a warning to anyone buying any "PH67" series mobo: It is a hybrid of the P67 and H67 chipsets that omit the very advantages of either chipset over the other.)

The Asus P8P67 LE is not one of the better overclocking P67 mobos: It does not have any manual CPU core voltage settings per se - only voltage offsets. This seriously hampers overclockability (meaning that it's not very good for overclocking an i7-2600K above 3.9GHz or so whereas more expensive Asus P67 mobos can easily achieve 4.7GHz or higher with that same CPU). To get good overclockability in an Asus P67 mobo, you will have to spend more money than what the P8P67 LE costs.

That leaves you with the MSI; however, the C45 you listed has only one PCIe x16 slot and thus supports only one video card.

 

[deadman_uk]

When Danny was talking about the H67 and P67 boards, I realised the board I listed originally was an H67. Cost is a concern as I was hoping to get a board for around £80 but looks like it's going to cost £130 or more to be reasonable. Since the price is more expensive, I may as well go for a good Z68 board. I am not interested in dual graphics cards at the moment and this is unlikely to change in the future, but if a board comes with SLI/Crossfire, I don't mind, it just won't use used probably.

The Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 sounds good and has great reviews. Only problem is, aftermarket coolers may interfere with the RAM slots. I will probably use stock cooling anyway. Any opinions on this board?

 

[E4g1e]

When Danny was talking about the H67 and P67 boards, I realised the board I listed originally was an H67. Cost is a concern as I was hoping to get a board for around £80 but looks like it's going to cost £130 or more to be reasonable. Since the price is more expensive, I may as well go for a good Z68 board. I am not interested in dual graphics cards at the moment and this is unlikely to change in the future, but if a board comes with SLI/Crossfire, I don't mind, it just won't use used probably.

The Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 sounds good and has great reviews. Only problem is, aftermarket coolers may interfere with the RAM slots. I will probably use stock cooling anyway. Any opinions on this board?

The GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 mobo is a decent choice if you cannot afford a higher-end Z68 mobo since it uses a hybrid EFI BIOS and is a true Z68 mobo that supports Lucid Virtu and QuickSync (and thus include at least one VGA out and one DVI-D out, and on that particular mobo one HDMI out as well). Some of Gigabyte's other Z68 mobos do not include monitor outs at all and thus do not support Virtu or QuickSync; as such, the Gigabyte Z68 mobos that do not include monitor outs at all are gimped.

 

[deadman_uk]

The GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 mobo is a decent choice if you cannot afford a higher-end Z68 mobo since it uses a hybrid EFI BIOS and is a true Z68 mobo that supports Lucid Virtu and QuickSync (and thus include at least one VGA out and one DVI-D out, and on that particular mobo one HDMI out as well). Some of Gigabyte's other Z68 mobos do not include monitor outs at all and thus do not support Virtu or QuickSync; as such, the Gigabyte Z68 mobos that do not include monitor outs at all are gimped.

The GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 is already £50 more than I thought I would spend on a motherboard, my budget of £600 is now looking unrealistic. I have updated my original post.

I just measure the inside of my case, it will allow for an 11.5" card if I move one of my hard drives over to another slot. This now leaves me in a tough situation. Do I upgrade my whole PC so I am sorted for a good few years, or just buy a graphics card? I know my CPU will bottleneck it a bit but it won't be much.

 

[Dangman]

The GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 is already £50 more than I thought I would spend on a motherboard, my budget of £600 is now looking unrealistic. I have updated my original post.

I just measure the inside of my case, it will allow for an 11.5" card if I move one of my hard drives over to another slot. This now leaves me in a tough situation. Do I upgrade my whole PC so I am sorted for a good few years, or just buy a graphics card? I know my CPU will bottleneck it a bit but it won't be much.

Well the gaming performance difference between the Intel Core i7 2600K and Q9450 is about 25% give or take. The difference is greater once you start overclocking.

But I say just get a new GPU first, see if it meets your needs, and then upgrade the PC if necessary.

 

[deadman_uk]

Well the gaming performance difference between the Intel Core i7 2600K and Q9450 is about 25% give or take. The difference is greater once you start overclocking.

But I say just get a new GPU first, see if it meets your needs, and then upgrade the PC if necessary.

I think I shall do this then. Get a 2GB HD 6950 and then see what happens. I will select a site with free shipping so I won't lose money from not getting everything in one order (if I do find out the new GPU is not enough)

Thanks all!

 

[deadman_uk]

I purchased the MSI Radeon HD 6950 2GB Twin Frozr III Power Edition for £205 (now £199 just 1 day after ordering....) and got a free copy of DiRT 3 which is a bonus. I am noticing a moderate increase in framerates in most of my games and can now enable more advanced graphical features.

3D Mark 06

4890 XXX = 15225 (Default Settings)
6950 OC = 17915 (Default Settings)
4890 XXX = 13779 (All tests enabled @ 1920x1200)
6950 OC = 17196 (All tests enabled @ 1920x1200)

Haven't tried The Witcher 2 yet but expecting the game to run well above 30fps now.