need help differencing Reference vs Design GPU card...

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Vesqwi

Limp Gawd
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Sep 9, 2011
Messages
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I'm just about to buy a 7970, and I'm a bit confused what to choose between a reference and a non-reference card.

It's unclear to me if non-reference card can overclock as much as a reference card.
If I understand correctly (and I don't think I do), the non-references cards (those with built-in fan on the card itself) are restricted in terms of overclocking ?
I feel sooo much like I'm wrong.. but that's just what I seem to understand right now..
Can a non-reference card overclock as much as a reference card ?? If not, why would one want a non-reference card o_O ?

So the result is, i'm struggling between those two: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%2050001315%20600286767%20600286740&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=48|14-121-485^14-121-485-TS%2C14-121-499^14-121-499-02%23

Also, I'm not sure if any of these will fit my Case and Motherboard ?:
I hear that it requires 3 slot free for this card. Also, the non-reference one (the DirectCU II), needs two 8-pin connectors since power delivery is increased
Here's my case and mobo:
Case: Fractal Design Arc Midi
Mobo: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
(Hopefuly, I haven't bought that case and mobo yet, so it's time to change my mind now if I need to.)
 
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Welcome. Usually a "reference" card refers to one that uses tha stock OEM design. In the case of video cards "non-reference" cards usually incorporate any or all of the following:

1) Modified board layout.
2) Circuitry.
3) Better cooling.

So in general the non-reference cards should overclock better than reference cards. Hope that helps ya out.
 
Evil Scooter said:
Welcome. Usually a "reference" card refers to one that uses tha stock OEM design. In the case of video cards "non-reference" cards usually incorporate any or all of the following:

1) Modified board layout.
2) Circuitry.
3) Better cooling.

So in general the non-reference cards should overclock better than reference cards. Hope that helps ya out.
Click to expand...

Ok so the non-reference card are not locked to their stock Overclock right ?
 
hardforummarc said:
Ok so the non-reference card are not locked to their stock Overclock right ?
Click to expand...

Generally, most of them are still overclockable. It's rare that there's no software supporting oc'ing a given non-reference model, but it sometimes is the case when a type of card first comes out. Both cards you have in that comparison are able to be oc'd.
 
Reference cards are more important if you plan on running an aftermarket cooler or for wc.
 
delvryboy said:
Reference cards are more important if you plan on running an aftermarket cooler or for wc.
Click to expand...

Doesn't guarantee compatibility - reference design also changes ;)

Generally, non-reference design aims to reduce noise of the stock cooling. As a side effect, it may (but not guarantee) higher overclock.

Non-reference also frequently reduces quality of components to reduce production costs, but that occurs later in the production cycle (3-4 months after introduction)
 
I also heard that Overclocking a non-ref (which is most of the time already overclocked) is risky. Chances that it break are higher than Overclocking a ref card.,,
 
hardforummarc said:
I also heard that Overclocking a non-ref (which is most of the time already overclocked) is risky. Chances that it break are higher than Overclocking a ref card.,,
Click to expand...

Only if, as TehQuick mentioned, the non-ref card was either built with cheaper components, or was simply clocked closer to the chip's maximum to begin with.
 
That ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 will only do 8x with 2 graphics cards or 16x with just 1 card installed.

No idea if you plan to run 1 or 2. No idea which PCI-E slots will run at 16x as you would have to check the board manual to make sure.. but it looks like it will work with 3 slot card spacing for that DirectCU II.

Really any card is a crap shoot when it comes to overclocking.. no garrenties with a ref card but atleast with a non ref card is it says it will clock at whatever then that will atleast be garrentied to run those clocks.

I have 4 ref cards and can overclock to 1200/1800.. really have not tried higher on the core.

Really it should come down to if you plan to run eyefinity (multi monitors) DirectCU II would be best since it has all those mini DPs, or water cooling or care about noise. The ref would be the best bet for water cooling as the water blocks will only fit ref cards. Non ref cards prob will cool better and maybe quieter but you should check out the reviews on the card first.

Alot to figure out and on top of that you must consider the warrenty as well as ease to resale later on as i believe the MSI and another (cant remember now) the warrenty is serial # based so the next buyer will still have warrenty unlike other brands.
 
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eclypse said:
That ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 will only do 8x with 2 graphics cards or 16x with just 1 card installed.

No idea if you plan to run 1 or 2. No idea which PCI-E slots will run at 16x as you would have to check the board manual to make sure.. but it looks like it will work with 3 slot card spacing for that DirectCU II.

Really any card is a crap shoot when it comes to overclocking.. no garrenties with a ref card but atleast with a non ref card is it says it will clock at whatever then that will atleast be garrentied to run those clocks.

I have 4 ref cards and can overclock to 1200/1800.. really have not tried higher on the core.

Really it should come down to if you plan to run eyefinity (multi monitors) DirectCU II would be best since it has all those mini DPs, or water cooling or care about noise. The ref would be the best bet for water cooling as the water blocks will only fit ref cards. Non ref cards prob will cool better and maybe quieter but you should check out the reviews on the card first.

Alot to figure out and on top of that you must consider the warrenty as well as ease to resale later on as i believe the MSI and another (cant remember now) the warrenty is serial # based so the next buyer will still have warrenty unlike other brands.
Click to expand...

dual x8 vs dual x16
You're damn right ! my Mobo (ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3) would only do 16x/x8 in CF, not x16/x16..... But would the difference really worth changing my choice of mobo ?? Should I look for a mobo that support dual x16 ? Also, I think there is no dual x16 running on PCIe 3.0 yet, only running on PCIe 2.0..
So maybe I'm better off going PCIe 3.0 in x16/x8 rather than PCIe 2.0 x16/x16 ? I know that is getting tricky or confusing, but if you get it, let me know you though on that

Warranty
There is only about ~15 type of 7970 on the market right now... Could any of you tell me which one offer serial-based manufacturer warranty ?

Also, I won't ever use multi-screen display.
Thanks
 
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My board "socket 2011" Asus Rampage IV Extreme has 2 16X or 2 16x and 1 8x or 1 16x and 3 8x.. basicly 40 PCI-E lanes total.

I dont believe theres much of a difference currently between 8x or 16x. As people mentioned in the past theres like a 2% difference.

Gigabyte or MSI is what you want.Both of them the warrenty is off the serial number so basicly the warrenty is transferable so reselling them would be simple. Like i mentioned before you'll be happy with a ref or non ref.. its all up to what you plan to do with them. If water cooling or you may want to buy a 4rd party air cooler for it later on, stick to ref design card.. If you want a better cooling solution then the ref card has then go with a non ref card as it may cool better and be quieter.
 
eclypse said:
Like i mentioned before you'll be happy with a ref or non ref.. its all up to what you plan to do with them. If water cooling or you may want to buy a 4rd party air cooler for it later on, stick to ref design card.. If you want a better cooling solution then the ref card has then go with a non ref card as it may cool better and be quieter.
Click to expand...

Actually the price has no importance in that decision. I just want the best. I heard of some limitation for the non-ref and that's why I hesitate. Otherwise, I would have bought it already.
The limitation I heard of are about the overclockability, which seems to be locked at a certain level on the non-ref card, unlike the ref cards that seems to provide full overclockability.
Is that true ?
 
hardforummarc said:
Actually the price has no importance in that decision. I just want the best. I heard of some limitation for the non-ref and that's why I hesitate. Otherwise, I would have bought it already.
The limitation I heard of are about the overclockability, which seems to be locked at a certain level on the non-ref card, unlike the ref cards that seems to provide full overclockability.
Is that true ?
Click to expand...

No it is not
 
Nope.. never heard that one before. I always by Reference cards as i know i can clock as high if not higher then the OC cards and at a cheaper price then the OC cards.
 
eclypse said:
Nope.. never heard that one before. I always by Reference cards as i know i can clock as high if not higher then the OC cards and at a cheaper price then the OC cards.
Click to expand...

I heard that the fan in the ref cards are smaller, hence making more noise than the non-ref cards. Could I remove these fan from the ref card to place after market ones , or add a waterblock or something.. .?
 
No to changing the fan but yeah one can buy a 7970 water block.. if you already have a normal water cooling loop in the system then go with that if you can afford it.

The stock fan is freakin loud once it gets to over 50% speed.
 
eclypse said:
The stock fan is freakin loud once it gets to over 50% speed.
Click to expand...

the stock fan is loud and we can't remove/replace them ?
Why would I want a ref-card then ? What you have is reference or non-reference ?
 
eclypse said:
Gigabyte or MSI is what you want.Both of them the warrenty is off the serial number so basicly the warrenty is transferable so reselling them would be simple.
Click to expand...

I was interested in getting the Asus one. Do you know if their warranty is serial-based too ?
 
:) Well thats what i've been trying to mention.. if you want to install a 3rd party cooler/better cooler or go with a water block or dont care about noise then ref card all the way. If you want a possably quieter card then go non ref.. but no you'll never be able to use a full covereage water block with one of those.

I have 4 ref cards.. 2x Diamond and 2x XFX all on water.

Have tested them out with the stock fans for 2-3 weeks before finally installing the water blocks.. They were freakin loud on full load as the temps went upwards around 70C. Wife said she was fine with it but no way could i stand them. Spent a mint on the rig making it as silent as possable and no way could i cope with the noise.. Since installing the water blocks on them i'm back to near silent rig once again and temps in the upper 30s to 40c tops on load.

If you want a non reference card you better check out some reviews on them first to be safe.. theres no garrenty that it will be quiet or quieter then the ref card.
 
eclypse said:
:) Well thats what i've been trying to mention.. if you want to install a 3rd party cooler/better cooler or go with a water block or dont care about noise then ref card all the way. If you want a possably quieter card then go non ref.. but no you'll never be able to use a full covereage water block with one of those.

I have 4 ref cards.. 2x Diamond and 2x XFX all on water.

Have tested them out with the stock fans for 2-3 weeks before finally installing the water blocks.. They were freakin loud on full load as the temps went upwards around 70C. Wife said she was fine with it but no way could i stand them. Spent a mint on the rig making it as silent as possable and no way could i cope with the noise.. Since installing the water blocks on them i'm back to near silent rig once again and temps in the upper 30s to 40c tops on load.

If you want a non reference card you better check out some reviews on them first to be safe.. theres no garrenty that it will be quiet or quieter then the ref card.
Click to expand...

Any 7970 waterblock reccomendation (brand/model)? Newegg doesn't seems to stock any.
Thanks,
Well the famous non-ref Gigabytes just turned on-stock on newegg, but I think I would be better , as you say, to just buy two waterblock for two Ref 7970. Didn't know these waterblock was that much efficient !

Thanks
 
hardforummarc said:
Didn't know these waterblock was that much efficient
Click to expand...

I hope you are not assuming that waterblocks are like stand-alone coolers. Waterblock by itself doesn't do much, what's important is the rad and fans connected to it. ;)

hardforummarc said:
Any 7970 waterblock reccomendation (brand/model)?
Click to expand...
AFAIK, there's only one (albeit in 4 flavors) on the market designed specifically for 7970 - EK FC7970. But again - there isn't much difference between waterblocks, what matters is the rest of the loop :)
 
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