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Need a Lo-Mid MB/CPU Recommendation

F

ferdb

n00b
Joined
Sep 3, 2004
Messages
24
I need to build a new box for the wife to replace her aging athlon 1600Mhz w/ 9600 PRO video card. Keeping the monitor which is a 22" LCD 1680x1050. The machine is mostly used for Web surfing, skype, sightspeed, some powerpoint, and light gaming (Sims, Spore, nothing highly demanding). I'd like it to be good for 3-4 years. The 9600 Pro video card seems to have sufficient performance so far but I'll need something new as it's AGP.

I need:
1-2 PS2 ports
A Gigabit ethernet port
Built in audio (2 channel is fine), Mic input
IDE port
SATA support for RAID 1

What I've decided on so far is:

Sonata III case w/ 500W PS (I want this machine to be fairly quiet).
2x 640G WD drives in Raid 1 (mirror). This is way more space than the machine actually needs but it'll be used as a backup for music and pictures etc. I don't build anything anymore that's not Raid 1.
I'll stick with WinXP for this box.
4G DDR2-800 ram, Cheap and plentiful (I know I'll only get about 3G out of it under XP).

So what I'm not sure of is what CPU/Motherboard/Video card to get.

The budget is around $400 for the cpu/motherboard/video card. I don't mind overclocking to get more bang for the buck, but only what I can easily achieve without raising voltages and still remain rock solid reliable. I'd like to keep the heat down so the PC can run quietly ( at least when not heavily loaded).

After many hours of reading articles and forums I'm still unsure where the sweet spots are.
My preliminary ideas are a mid range P45 motherboard like the ASUS P5Q-pro and some dual or quad core intel processor and an $80-$150 video card. I'm not sure what has good bang for the buck these days (assuming reasonable CPU overclocking).

The other option is something like three or four core AMD chip and appropriate motherboard. Even something with onboard video such as the 780G or 790G (such as ASUS M3A78-T) might be sufficient if the onboard video is as good as a 9600 Pro, or better. I can't seem to figure out how the 780G or 790G compare on video performance to current discrete cards.

I know AMD is fairly competitive on a price/performance comparison, although if one includes overclocking potential they may lose out to an intel solution.

So what to choose? Intel or AMD, what motherboard, CPU, video card. Include overclocking ( I don't mind springing for a good quiet heatsink), but I don't want much fan noise and I don't want to raise cpu voltages.

I would be most grateful for any advice, thanks for your time.
 
Do what I did - E8400, PQ5-Pro, Radeon 4850

8400 @ 4.125 24/7 stable.
13.9k in 3DMark06 with vista 64.
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...SubCategory=22&SortField=0&PageSize=10&page=1

I'd get the BE-2400 ($115) or Phenom 9850 ($240) combo personally. This mobo has absolutely top notch features, including the spectacular SB750 southbridge, which is enabling Phenom OC's over 3Ghz, if you so choose. You can even do light gaming on the onboard graphics. You can add a Radeon 4850 or 4870 (or TWO!) later. Really good value.


4850
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102770

Best RAM for the price, hands down
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231145

Good combo with Q6600 if you'd rather go intel and skip out on the DDR2-1000
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211188

Best bang for your buck nvidia
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130364

Slightly more perf.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133239

Again slightly more.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133232
 
Meh. I'd rather have a Phenom 9850 and an equivalent mobo and keep $35 to go towards other stuff. Quad core is better for this rig anyway, imo, it'll give a smoother experience with MS Office apps and the like.

And why restrict yourself to 1 card by putting a 8800gt into a P45 board with 2x pci-e slots for ATI cards? That's shooting yourself in the foot, even if you don't think you'll ever x-fire.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think I'd save my cash and do the BE-2400 combo, get the 4gb Gskil DDR2-1000, use the onboard gfx (it really can game), and wait for Phenoms and 4850's to come down in price. This solution is dirt cheap ($190!), overclockable, and VERY upgradeable.
 
For a PC that will not be used for heavy gaming or video editing, you'd be fine with an E5200 and an inexpensive, decent motherboard like the GA-G31M-S2L. You could go with a passive-cooled 8500GT with those and it would cost you far less than $400 and would also last you for a couple of years down the line.

IMO, no point in getting an E8400 and a high-end motherboard and video card if you're not going to use them to their full potential.
 
thanks for all the replies, very helpful.
I've decided to go with an Asus PQ5 Pro and E8400 (combo price of $275). I like the low power dissipation and good overclocking headroom. 4 cores isn't critical for this machine and I can always upgrade it later with a cpu change when the 4 cores drop in price (if necessary).

The 8800GT video card suggestion was a great one because it gave me an idea. I'm going to take out the 8800gt in my machine in put it in this one and get me a better video card (probably 4870x2). The 8800gt is struggling with my 30" monitor.

Thanks for the DRAM suggestion. excellent.

Again thanks all, you cleared up the muddle I was in.
 
Sounds like a great plan... That PC-8000 memory will come in handy for the high FSB overclocks required for an E8400.

If I was in your shoes, I'd replace the motherboard in my own machine with that P5Q Pro, and give the gf my old one. The P5Q Pro will play nicer with that 4870x2 after all ;-)
 
ordovician said:
Sounds like a great plan... That PC-8000 memory will come in handy for the high FSB overclocks required for an E8400.

If I was in your shoes, I'd replace the motherboard in my own machine with that P5Q Pro, and give the gf my old one. The P5Q Pro will play nicer with that 4870x2 after all ;-)
Click to expand...

Honestly I don't think it would be necessary at all because as he said in the original post, he would only overclock as far as he could without raising the voltage. I highly doubt you could get an E8400 beyond 400FSB without raising voltage. So honestly he would be better off with some CAS4 DDR2-800 IMO.

EDIT: Here is the memory I would recommend, it's a great price and will have great performance with the E8400.

OCZ Reaper 2x2GB
 
CamaroZ28 said:
Honestly I don't think it would be necessary at all because as he said in the original post, he would only overclock as far as he could without raising the voltage. I highly doubt you could get an E8400 beyond 400FSB without raising voltage. So honestly he would be better off with some CAS4 DDR2-800 IMO.

EDIT: Here is the memory I would recommend, it's a great price and will have great performance with the E8400.

OCZ Reaper 2x2GB
Click to expand...

The RAM I recommended will run DDR2-800 CAS 4, but is also guaranteed to run DDR2-1000 CAS 5
 
ordovician said:
The RAM I recommended will run DDR2-800 CAS 4, but is also guaranteed to run DDR2-1000 CAS 5
Click to expand...

But there is no way for sure to assure it will run CAS 4, thats just a guess based on the fact that it can overclock to DDR2-1000. I would rather take the RAM I recommended because it will be assured by manufacturer to run CAS 4 and it costs less.
 
CamaroZ28 said:
But there is no way for sure to assure it will run CAS 4, thats just a guess based on the fact that it can overclock to DDR2-1000. I would rather take the RAM I recommended because it will be assured by manufacturer to run CAS 4 and it costs less.
Click to expand...

Its speed is a munifacturer guaranteed 1000mhz, and that is not through overclocking. I guess it just comes down to personal preference which you'd rather have. I for one would prefer NOT to have to deal with a rebate, and to have the flexibility to run over 800mhz if I need to in a future build.

BTW, CAS 4 DDR2 800 and CAS 5 DDR2-1066 trade blows, with 1066 winning all bandwidth intensive apps. It's a crapshoot. I'd rather have DDR that can go faster, because i have CAS 4 800 in my current rig that wont even do CAS 5 900...
 
ordovician said:
Its speed is a munifacturer guaranteed 1000mhz, and that is not through overclocking. I guess it just comes down to personal preference which you'd rather have. I for one would prefer NOT to have to deal with a rebate, and to have the flexibility to run over 800mhz if I need to in a future build.

BTW, CAS 4 DDR2 800 and CAS 5 DDR2-1066 trade blows, with 1066 winning all bandwidth intensive apps. It's a crapshoot. I'd rather have DDR that can go faster, because i have CAS 4 800 in my current rig that wont even do CAS 5 900...
Click to expand...

Yes 1066 would be faster if you are running at 1:1 fsb:dram, but if you are running 400mhz fsb with 533mhz memory, its just being bottlenecked at the cpu anyways. So what you want at that point is for the operations inside the memory to be faster, therefore CAS 4 800 vs CAS 5 1066 with a 400Mhz FSB, then the CAS 4 DDR2-800 would be faster.
 
CamaroZ28 said:
Lol because... I would like to see you get past 400MHz FSB with an E8400 and stock voltage. It's not going to happen.
Click to expand...

Sure it can happen, especially with the new E0 stepping. Did it myself and posted screens in the thread below. And thats with an older P965 chipset. I'm not the only one also, if you read XtremeSystems forums.

Now for full disclosure I have good cooling and modded the MB. I ripped out the NB cooler and put a large 3rd party cooler+fan. Added sinks to the PWM's and a fan for that as well. Also a good Vendetta 2+ Sythe Flex fan for the CPU and running it in a cold ambient temp basement. I also did the Vmch mod as well, although I don't need the extra current right now.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1325309&highlight=AB9+QuadGT

8th post down. Farther down for higher clocks with much higher voltage. To go from 4.0 to 4.2 Ghz is insane the amount I had to throw at it, and 4.3 was pushing extreme numbers I would never want to run at 24/7
 
jzodda said:
Sure it can happen, especially with the new E0 stepping. Did it myself and posted screens in the thread below. And thats with an older P965 chipset. I'm not the only one also, if you read XtremeSystems forums.

Now for full disclosure I have good cooling and modded the MB. I ripped out the NB cooler and put a large 3rd party cooler+fan. Added sinks to the PWM's and a fan for that as well. Also a good Vendetta 2+ Sythe Flex fan for the CPU and running it in a cold ambient temp basement. I also did the Vmch mod as well, although I don't need the extra current right now.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1325309&highlight=AB9+QuadGT

8th post down. Farther down for higher clocks with much higher voltage. To go from 4.0 to 4.2 Ghz is insane the amount I had to throw at it, and 4.3 was pushing extreme numbers I would never want to run at 24/7
Click to expand...

I see your post and I understand why you might think that is stock voltage, however, since you are using a 45nm chip on a board designed for the 65nm chips. The lowest that board can go is 1.25vcc because the 65nm chips ran at higher voltages. But that doesn't mean it is the stock voltage for the 45nm chips. I have an E8500 and running on a board that was designed for 45nm chips and my voltage running at stock speeds is about 1.17v and I would assume that for a E8400 it might be even lower, maybe 1.16v. Since the OP will be using the exact same mobo as me, there is no way it will hit 400MHz FSB at 1.16v-1.17v he would still have to raise the voltage.
 
CamaroZ28 said:
I see your post and I understand why you might think that is stock voltage, however, since you are using a 45nm chip on a board designed for the 65nm chips. The lowest that board can go is 1.25vcc because the 65nm chips ran at higher voltages. But that doesn't mean it is the stock voltage for the 45nm chips. I have an E8500 and running on a board that was designed for 45nm chips and my voltage running at stock speeds is about 1.7v and I would assume that for a E8400 it might be even lower, maybe 1.6v. Since the OP will be using the exact same mobo as me, there is no way it will hit 400MHz FSB at 1.6v-1.7v he would still have to raise the voltage.
Click to expand...

Ahh I understand. I didn't know they go lower then that. I always thought they would do the same voltage in the different chipsets, meaning that when Abit released the bios that made the motherboard compatible with the 8400 I thought they then made sure that the minimum voltage would then be the same as on other chipsets that can run the 8400. I was wrong.

No wonder the 8400 did 4.0 Ghz on 1.25Vcore so easily. Its not the same stock voltage as the newer chipsets, its higher. And here I thought I had an extra good clocker or something :D
 
jzodda said:
Ahh I understand. I didn't know they go lower then that. I always thought they would do the same voltage in the different chipsets, meaning that when Abit released the bios that made the motherboard compatible with the 8400 I thought they then made sure that the minimum voltage would then be the same as on other chipsets that can run the 8400. I was wrong.

No wonder the 8400 did 4.0 Ghz on 1.25Vcore so easily. Its not the same stock voltage as the newer chipsets, its higher. And here I thought I had an extra good clocker or something :D
Click to expand...

Ya the reason for that is the bios doesn't affect how the actual PWM's deliver voltage to the chip, and that board was designed to deliver a minimum of 1.25V is seems.

Actually I would still say that is a pretty good clocker lol, I have to run about 1.31Vcore on my E8500 to hit 4.0GHz, which is a good bit higher and limits my ability to go much futher past that because I'm kinda scared to get close to the 1.4 number. I haven't really optimized my overclock though, so there is a chance I could lower the voltage a little more, but I doubt very much.
 
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