NEC MultiSync LCD3090WQXi-BK spotted

[verylostindeed]

visualguy, one more time for you and the readers to remember.

Normal people can see colorshift on PVA (Eizo, etc.)

Although I hate to agree with albovin and his utterly obnoxious posting style, he does happen to be correct that the gamma shift on *VA panels is not something that only manifests itself in certain situations. If you know what you're looking for, it's readily apparent under all circumstances. The same goes for TN panels, only in the vertical scenario.

Now, visualguy says it doesn't bother him, and there is no reason for the absurd trolling going on here to convince him that it should bother him.

 

[cybtropic]

On the other hand, ANYONE who wants to play games on the NEC, forget about it. Especially some of the darker games. On my NEC, a huge portion of the left and right corners is basically white, and thats when sitting in front of the screen. I'm not sure how gamma shift would bother me on PVA panels, but this glow is completely unacceptable and I already called to return my NEC.

Albovin: why did you not mention the glow problem in the corners in your review of the NEC? I am not really blaming you as all the other reviews that I read also failed to mention this. This is identical to reviewing a PVA panel, and not mentioning anything about the colorshift, etc.

You did talk about glow when viewing from angles, but not when viewing from front. And this isnt just some small glow in the corner, it is a huge glow on my NEC. Like 1/8 of the screen in each corner.

 

[Snowdog]

I have said it before, but it bears repeating. Going with a 30 inch you are choosing quantity over quality. After exhaustive research, I am convinced the NEC 2490 is pretty much the best panel on the market. There is a slight drop in quality going to the its 26" brother, and larger drop going to the 30".

Perhaps get two 24" 2490s instead of the the 30" 3090.

For the price of 30" you can get 1 2490-SV a second 2490 without SV(use SV from first monitor) and probably get some change back.

Then you have a better quality panel, with perfect sRGB. If you must have wide gamut you can go dual 2690s for not much more.

Dual (24"-26") give you about 500 000 more pixels of screen real estate.

I really wonder why the 30" doesn't get the A-TW treatment when it needs it even more due to screen size.

 

[ToastyX]

Gamma shift isn't much of a problem in games, but PVA monitors have lag, which is a problem if you're sensitive to it. Then again, the NEC has lag too, so I guess it wouldn't matter in this case, but at least there are lag-free IPS monitors like the Dell 3007WFP and the 30" Apple. There aren't any lag-free PVA monitors.

 

[Snowdog]

Gamma shift isn't much of a problem in games,

That depends on the individual. Most issues with LCDs are highly subjective. I can't use VA for hardly any use because the gamma shift, presents different image to each eye, giving it a phony 3d/holo effect. This is jarring/annoying/headache inducing for me. But most people don't notice that.

Everyone needs to try each panel type to really find out what will work for them.

 

[videomasterz]

On the other hand, ANYONE who wants to play games on the NEC, forget about it. Especially some of the darker games. On my NEC, a huge portion of the left and right corners is basically white, and thats when sitting in front of the screen. I'm not sure how gamma shift would bother me on PVA panels, but this glow is completely unacceptable and I already called to return my NEC.

Albovin: why did you not mention the glow problem in the corners in your review of the NEC? I am not really blaming you as all the other reviews that I read also failed to mention this. This is identical to reviewing a PVA panel, and not mentioning anything about the colorshift, etc.

You did talk about glow when viewing from angles, but not when viewing from front. And this isnt just some small glow in the corner, it is a huge glow on my NEC. Like 1/8 of the screen in each corner.

cybtropic, I can understand what you are saying.... I didnt like the "sparkle" effect and the glow from the newer S-IPS panels. So I got the Samsung 305T+ (I ordered a regular 305T, but got the 305T+). This is a S-PVA panel and there is practically no glow for playing dark games and the sparkle effect is not there. Here is a quick review I did of the Samsung 305T+ just scroll down:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1302745

My friend that is a hardcore PC Gamer, tried out my Samsung today and he told me he can feel a difference and is slightly slower than what he is used to. Meaning the input lag was noticeable. I asked him.. "BUT is it playable?!?!?" he said ohyeah for sure.

 

[ToastyX]

That depends on the individual. Most issues with LCDs are highly subjective. I can't use VA for hardly any use because the gamma shift, presents different image to each eye, giving it a phony 3d/holo effect.

You keep mentioning that effect, but I get the same effect from the glow, so what difference does it make? Only TN panels and IPS panels without the glow don't have that effect.

I don't like the gamma shift because it washes out the colors, but in games, that's not as big of a deal. It can even help in some cases by revealing details in dark areas. The glow is more obnoxious in dark games than the gamma shift.

 

[Snowdog]

You keep mentioning that effect, but I get the same effect from the glow, so what difference does it make? Only TN panels and IPS panels without the glow don't have that effect.

As it happens I am only interested in TN screen and IPS screens with A-TW.

But I had a Dell 3007-hc for a short while(returned), with no holo effect. I had one corner that glowed annoyingly on dark backgrounds along with other screen uniformity issues. As I said above though, I don't know why the 30" NEC wasn't given the A-TW treatment, bigger screens obviously have more need to minimize glow.

Like I said, much of this is subjective. But to ME the glow is an overlay of haze over the image, it doesn't tend to make different parts of the images respond differently and I only noticed it in the corner(s). PVA shift I saw everywhere on the screen and it does very strange things to my eyes, as different detail pops in and out. YMMV.

 

[hashbang]

Can someone post a picture illustrating that glow? I was considering the 30" NEC, but this glow makes me cautious, because I use dark background very frequently. It's strange that none of the reviews mentioned it. Unfortunately I don't know any local shop where I could see this monitor myself.

 

[pawstar]

Pathology #1. Relatively poor (compared to IPS) PVA viewing angles make colors washed out closer to panel edges.

As opposed to dark colours being crushed when viewing at an angle on the 3090 and the panel glowing just as much or more than a PVA?

Pathology #2. Black crush (loss of details on darker tone images) when you look from the front (details reappear when you move your head to look from an angle) - the most disgusting problem of PVA (Eizo, etc.) Look at the headrest behind this boy.
Who turns the light on in this car?
These two problems together make it nearly impossible to get a stable picture on PVA. You never know when and what color is correct - colors and details are boiling on the screen and floating with your point of observation.

Again, I see the similar effect on the 3090, except its reversed. On top of that the brightness shifts when moving away from center in any direction and the white tone changes: from white to blue-gray. I can even see a bit of shift when viewing head on.

Listen, isn't it stupid to loose your picture when you are sitting in front of the monitor and get it back when you move aside!!!???

And isn't it stupid to loose your picture in the corners, especially when viewing darker shades? And isn't it stupid to loose contrast in an image because of some stupid backlight control of the monitor (BTW, my monitor measures a whopping 220:1 when I calibrated it ).

Only really dedicated persons (I am polite) can throw away thousands of dollars on the products like Eizo's CG series (great products other than photo image quality) or pure golden crap XL30.

Now this is uncalled for. I too am curious what he does with all those monitors but really that's his business. Besides some people spend far more money on collecting expensive, ugly looking cars. Secondly, many people here have other uses for our monitors and to just focus on photo quality is not the way to go about assessing the quality of the monitor. If that was the only point, we would hang around on the dpreview forum.

While I appreciate your time for doing the reviews and for your constructive comments and I know you really like the NEC brand, hiding behind the inferiority of other product defects while neglecting to admit the faults of a given product is no way to conduct a professional review.

 

[albovin]

Can someone post a picture illustrating that glow?

Why not? Here you are.
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4

I was considering the 30" NEC, but this glow makes me cautious, because I use dark background very frequently. It's strange that none of the reviews mentioned it. Unfortunately I don't know any local shop where I could see this monitor myself

If someone says the glow is not mentioned in the review - they lie. No other review demonstrates glow more clear than this one. We can assume that some people don't understand what they see, but that's their own problem ("their business").

See video. Watch for glow.
Video 1
Video 2
Video 3

 

[albovin]

BTW, my monitor measures a whopping 220:1 when I calibrated

Your comment seems strange.

hiding behind the inferiority of other product defects while neglecting to admit the faults of a given product is no way to conduct a professional review

Any examples of what you are saying from the review, please.

 

[cybtropic]

I looked at all your videoes in the NEC review but I think pictures and videos do not really show you the glow unless you see it for yourself. I am talking about the glow visible when viewing straight on. Maybe I got unlucky and got a panel where this problem is more extreme.

 

[pawstar]

Any examples of what you are saying from the review, please.

Its not the review on your blog as your review commends on this forum as exemplified by my refutes of your previous message. Most of them can be generalized as PVA sucks so therefore the 3090 is the only worthy candidate.

 

[pawstar]

If someone says the glow is not mentioned in the review - they lie. No other review demonstrates glow more clear than this one. We can assume that some people don't understand what they see, but that's their own problem ("their business").

#1, from your review blog: word count for "glow" = 1, found on line:

Unlike regular LCD, the reference monitor NEC 2490WUXi has especially solid black color – it does not produce glow if you see from an angle in darkness. Letters A-TW usually attributed to this excellent performance of H-IPS. Although we have never had any official explanation from the manufacturer, it’s said that the presence of a polarizer makes black ever-black. In the extremely worst case (diagonal view) black color on the NEC 3090 has some colored tint similar to a regular LCD panel (in the picture it’s 27” PVA):

and that was followed by pic of monitors at an extreme angle. I did not see anything else on your blog regarding the glow of the 3090. Did I miss something? Interesting enough the 3090 was never compared directly against a PVA, which would have been nice.

 

[pawstar]

Maybe I got unlucky and got a panel where this problem is more extreme.

I don't think so, I have it, and its pretty bad. The problem is that its difficult to capture by a camera.

 

[cybtropic]

I wish someone would compare the NEC 3090 and DELL 3008 glow. I know they use same panel.

 

[hashbang]

Why not? Here you are.
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4

I can't see any significant glow here except for Picture 4, which is at extreme angle. That would not bother me that much.

If someone says the glow is not mentioned in the review - they lie. No other review demonstrates glow more clear than this one

Your review only shows the glow at extreme angles. I'm refering to the glow at the corners while looking at right angle, like other people mentioned on this thread.

 

[albovin]

I looked at all your videoes in the NEC review but I think pictures and videos do not really show you the glow unless you see it for yourself. I am talking about the glow visible when viewing straight on. Maybe I got unlucky and got a panel where this problem is more extreme.

You know that "glow" on LCD is function of diagonal angle view of black image in darkness - as shown on video which is very clear even on YouTube.
The brighter image - the less glow.
The brighter darkness - the less glow.
The larger angle - the less glow.
When you see LCD straight on, bottom corners are at the worst position - diagonal angle view.
The closer your position - the worse the case.
The larger the monitor - the worse the case.
The sharper the angle - the worse the case.

If a monitor produces any angle glow, the right place to expect it are bottom corners and it is right there on conditions mentioned above. No surprise. Exactly as illustrated on video. Simple geometry.
There is no information about how your monitor is positioned, what your settings are (modes, gamma, brightness, contrast, black level ?), if it's calibrated and how.
You possibly look at low quality/resolution image stretched over entire screen. Possibly a dark image in dark environement is viewed - a simulation of the worst "glow" scenario.
Is it a low resolution game? Do a test. Try not to stretch it to full screen. For example, make it 2000x1250, leave in the center of the screen or move it to the left upper corner, fill the rest of the screen with any tone of grey from white to black and see what happens.

Do you see "glow" on a blu-ray or a quality photo image?

 

[albovin]

Its not the review on your blog as your review commends on this forum as exemplified by my refutes of your previous message. Most of them can be generalized as PVA sucks so therefore the 3090 is the only worthy candidate.

Yes, PVA sucks.
Eizo CG is about equally equipped machine but it uses lower level panel technology - colorshift kills it's photo quality performance. As a universal multipurpose monitor 3090 is also above with it's unlimited scaling and even lower input lag. Add no flickering at low brightness (due to "strange" brightness regulation). All that for about 2-3 thousand dollars cheaper.

Note: the very top Eizo model is IPS.

Why other CG utilise PVA? Don't ask me.
It's business: contracts, conditions, supply availability, secret preferences, some technical aspects, marketing, etc., etc.

Although CG may find some consumers (no doubt), most professionals would reject it right away - as soon as it's panel is mentioned - see that dpreview.
For us, regular users, CG is out of any practical value (same for the lame $$$$$ XL30).

30" PVA are poorly equipped primitive colorshifty products (bare panels actually) with some excuse for the Gateway with it own bunch of bugs.
That's why 30" PVAs suck as a class.

The closest competitor to 3090 is the Dell 3008, but it's well behind in many aspects other than brushed aluminium case.

Yes, if you get BL trouble free unit, the NEC 3090 is the most worthy candidate of 30".

 

[albovin]

I can't see any significant glow here except for Picture 4, which is at extreme angle. That would not bother me that much.

You can't see any "significant" glow on those pictures because there is no glow at all there.

Your review only shows the glow at extreme angles. I'm refering to the glow at the corners while looking at right angle, like other people mentioned on this thread

The glow can be visible on certain conditions only - as illustrated on video. You can see it in progression - from front view to a sharp angle.
When you look at right angle, bottom corners happen to be seen at a sharp angle, especially if you sit close.
One meter or three feet would be an adequate working distance for a properly positioned (lower adge is level with the desk, your view line is strictly perpendicular to the panel) and set (dpi!) 30" monitor.

 

[albovin]

I know you really like the NEC brand

I am not a NEC fan.
I like picture quality and smart features the NEC 2490 has happend to offer and I have happend to find.
As I did say before, I considered 3090 as upgrade for 2490.
Three unexpected or expected things found.
Brightness regulation. I would accept that decrease in CR at low brightness which in fact does not spoil the image for the benefit of flicker-free backlight (vision is priceless).
Other two - lack of "polarizer' and more noticeable AG coating effect - I would accept either/or, not both.
The bad thing about 3090 in general is that it does not surpass the previous model in image quality. On the contrary, it represents a step backward in a couple of aspects.
Remember, I compare 3090 and 2490 only. All the rest (PVAs, etc.) are left behind.
So I stay with 2490 for more 2 (?) years or until something more valuable comes up.

 

[pawstar]

One meter or three feet would be an adequate working distance for a properly positioned (lower adge is level with the desk, your view line is strictly perpendicular to the panel) and set (dpi!) 30" monitor.

If you are going to sit so far away from the monitor then whats the point of getting such a high resolution 30"-er ? I want more screen real-estate not bigger fonts. FYI, the manual's suggests a sitting distance between 40-70cm away from monitor with an optimal suggestion of 50cm. I'm sitting somewhere around 60cm or so.

 

[pawstar]

Brightness regulation. I would accept that decrease in CR at low brightness which in fact does not spoil the image for the benefit of flicker-free backlight (vision is priceless).

Yes, vision is priceless and thats why I don't like my retina scorched at 350cd/m or the minimnum "real" dimmed brightness of 240cd/m. Whose bright idea was that anyways? Even 120cd/m hurts my eyes. I know you hypothesize that its for flicker, but then why are their plenty of ther (older) 30"-ers that never had this problem before - even the Dell can go lower with the "same" panel. This is probably the single biggest reason why was considering the XL30 monitor.

 

[pawstar]

In regards to my contrast ratio:

Your comment seems strange.

Yes, that is what I have.

I just did some recent measurements and comparisons against my other frequently utilized equipment:
Nec 3090:
white: 96.36cd/m2
black: 0.47cd/m2
cr: 205.0

3 year old 20" S-IPS:
white: 95.78cd/m2
black: 0.26cd/m2
cr: 368.38

Laptop:
white: 94.57 cd/m2
black: 0.18 cd/m2
cr: 525.38

 

[pawstar]

Can someone post a picture illustrating that glow? I was considering the 30" NEC, but this glow makes me cautious, because I use dark background very frequently. It's strange that none of the reviews mentioned it. Unfortunately I don't know any local shop where I could see this monitor myself.

The glow is real. What I do think is that if you look at the monitor in a brightly lit environment, the glow is not going to be as visible as in a darkened room - kinda like backlight bleeding; however, corner black crush is still definitely observable.

I managed to get semi-descent photos of the glow & loss of corner details on a real wallpaper image though its still not captured in a manner that really fully shows the effect.

All photos were captured using custom white balance against a white page on the monitor. Manual exposure mode was used, with the same settings for the three pics focusing on just the 3090 monitor.

This pic should represent normal usage conditions taken about a third way from the top looking downward at a small angle:

Taking a pic at the approximate center of the monitor with lens perpendicular to screen results in a bit less glow & detail loss, but it is still there:

Centering the camera at the bottom right corner yields this startling image:

Where is all that grass detail in the above pics ?!

Now comparing the NEC 3090 monitor against my much older 20" S-IPS, shows a stark contrast in the dark tone image quality at the somewhat extreme viewing angle. Notice the difference between the two side-by-side corners.

 

[Snowdog]

Pawstar, thanks for the screen shots.

I really think LG needs to get it's act together on the 30" side, or NEC does. Whoever provides the A-TW tech, because these things really need the A-TW treatment.

That said, this really doesn't seem to be the panel for you. Sitting like 2feet away produces some wicked angles on a screen this big, not many technologies are up to it.

The brightness is something the panel makers need to be flogged for. I am with you on this. They are way too bright. This is not NECs fault, they get the same panels as everyone else. In this case it is LGs doing. NEC may have decided to limit the backlight range a bit more than Dell, but if so, it is probably because the color tone starts going off below a certain point. Dell doesn't care about that, NEC does.

But the real problem is all manufacturers have been putting 300-500 cd/m2 retina scorching backlights to have a bigger number on the spec sheet. When it is completely boneheaded, because the limited range usually means 150-200cd/m2 minimum!

Here I give Kudos to Benq and their panel maker for a nice (and rare) 250cd/m2 max backlight on 24". Also NEC makes some of their own panels, they usually use much lower powered backlights.

After reading tons of reviews/complaints for the various 30" LG based panels and trying a Dell 3007, I have come to the conclusion that the current "white glow" panel is a mess. The glow is too strong for the panel size and steep viewing angles if you sit close enough for the pixel pitch. Uniformity is all over the place and backlights don't have enough range. I think the older "Violet glow" panels were better. I used a older 30" Mac Cinema in store and it seemed to be less issue in the corners and the backlight seemed tamer as well.

I really wanted this resolution, but after using a (typically flawed) 30" panel, I am glad I don't need this resolution, because you pay more money for less quality when you move up to the 30" panels. Something I am just not willing to do. I would recommend living with 24"/26" A-TW panels until the 30" panels get straightened out.

Possible the glow might not have been that bad at my viewing distance (closer to 3ft), but my panel was VERY non uniform. I had one corner that glowed strongly (bottom right) but the bottom left corner didn't. In fact it was the opposite. It was noticeably dark. I found myself visually straining when looking at the start menu. Plus there was clouding (some call striping, but mine was that consistently directional). In short it was a mess consdering the price.

LG needs to fix this mess. I recommend everyone avoid these until they do.

 

[albovin]

Yes, vision is priceless and thats why I don't like my retina scorched at 350cd/m or the minimnum "real" dimmed brightness of 240cd/m. Whose bright idea was that anyways? Even 120cd/m hurts my eyes. I know you hypothesize that its for flicker, but then why are their plenty of ther (older) 30"-ers that never had this problem before - even the Dell can go lower with the "same" panel. This is probably the single biggest reason why was considering the XL30 monitor.

3090 has brightness regulation range measured from ~380cd/m2 to as low as ~60cd/m2 (very dark screen, useless actually) - that's all "REAL" in real candelas/m2.

Yes, that is what I have.
white: 96.36cd/m2
black: 0.47cd/m2

3090 has minimal black 0.3cd/m2, even handless prad.de gets it.
0.47 corresponds to 100% brightness.
Check your data.
Stay closer to what this monitor offers.

 

[Sailor_Moon]

3090 has minimal black 0.3cd/m2, even handless prad.de gets it.

I've tested the 3090WQXi and the SX3031W. While always open to criticism I'm prefering an unagitated discussion. The NEC is in most cases a better choice for electronic image processing. Personally my favourite is the S-PVA panel in the SX3031W (I'm still using it as my PC display) because I have a well-balanced range of application with image processing not being ranked first. Both displays aren't perfect - I was disappointed when seeing the quality of the second Eizo (no good certificate for the quality assurance) and also didn't like the vertical shades of the NEC. Both displays suffer from the inability of showing a judderfree picture when used with a frequency != 60 Hz (see the juddertest with the video processor). Of course they are (besides they are to small for viewing in greater distance) no LCD-TVs but in this price range it would be "nice to have".

Best regards

Denis

 

[albovin]

While always open to criticism I'm prefering an unagitated discussion.

Please, open the gate wider (no agitation).

 

[Sailor_Moon]

Please, open the gate wider (no agitation).

For my person it is as open as a barn door (colloquial term in German, don't know how it fits in English).

Best regards

Denis

 

[visualguy]

The NEC is in most cases a better choice for electronic image processing. Personally my favourite is the S-PVA panel in the SX3031W (I'm still using it as my PC display) because I have a well-balanced range of application with image processing not being ranked first. Both displays aren't perfect - I was disappointed when seeing the quality of the second Eizo (no good certificate for the quality assurance) and also didn't like the vertical shades of the NEC.

I agree - I also find the PVA panel in the Eizo (CG in my case) to be better overall than the IPS panel in the NEC.

As to quality assurance, the policy of all monitor manufacturers these days seems to be to ship everything, even if it has pretty serious flaws. Some people don't notice the flaws, or are unable or unwilling to return or exchange the monitor. Some people insist on exchange/return, but overall I guess the monitor companies figured out that it's cheaper to ship flawed units and handle the exchanges/returns rather than ship only good units. It's a very annoying situation because it makes buying a monitor potentially a serious ordeal.

 

[Brashen]

Bull crap this thing supposedly won the 2008 Macshow award why the hell is it so crappy?

 

[albovin]

Prad.de has been tested by the NEC 3090WQXi. Verdict: Failed!

Recent review at prad.de discussed here.

 

[Brashen]

I read the review yesterday and I think they did a pretty decent job with it. I mean I would have liked more real world comparisons and they barely mentioned anything about the striping the supposed back light bleed and the lack of a polarizer. By the way why do you defend this monitor so much albovin?

 

[Blackstone]

It isn't opticlear glossy.

 

[albovin]

I read the review yesterday and I think they did a pretty decent job with it. I mean I would have liked more real world comparisons and they barely mentioned anything about the striping the supposed back light bleed and the lack of a polarizer. By the way why do you defend this monitor so much albovin?

If read my posts more attentively you'll see that I don't defend this monitor.
When I talk about the monitor - I talk about the monitor and I express my disappointment about it's not being equal to previous models.
It may have mentioned manufacturing issue - BL urregularity (some vertical stripes).
I don't like it's 0.3 cd/m2 black, lack of polarizer and more AG coating effect - in comparison with 2490/2690 ONLY.
Beyond those two it's head and shoulders above anything else of it's kind.
I know this monitor well enough to judge. From time to time I have to reply to some paranoic complaints and mystifications about this monitor. That's it.

The review we are talking about is a different story.
You can see a long list of issues about the review, not the monitor, with it's unacceptable conclusion on top of that.

I think they did a pretty decent job with it.

No.
It may seem so to an unprepared reader.
People who are prepared to buy this monitor, who knows what NEC's 90-series is, who are waiting for this monitor in Europe - they know 90% of what will be written in prad.de review before it's published.
Only a few but highly important questions remain. #1 of them - if "European" 3090 supports HW calibration with SV-II.
The answer is worth the whole review.
Not tested?

 

[Sailor_Moon]

I read the review yesterday and I think they did a pretty decent job with it

Thanks for your feedback.

I mean I would have liked more real world comparisons and they barely mentioned anything about the striping the supposed back light bleed

Back light bleeding and the striping are very different in their occurrence from panel to panel. The tested NEC had visible vertical stripes (especially in motion) but only minor backlight bleeding. Discussion about the review and display can be found here:

http://www.prad.de/board/thread.php?postid=317864

Best regards

Denis

 

[Tarc]

Back light bleeding and the striping are very different in their occurrence from panel to panel.

Yes, most of the problems seems to come from the LG panel variations.

 

[Brashen]

@ albovin: Ah okay dude no worries I was just asking. I really like this monitor and was all set to buy it but then i cam and read this thread and I was really disappointing with some aspects of the display. Ill have to wait and see for either a refresh or a better 30 incher that has the same quality as the 24 inchers!!

@Sailor_Moon: I think you misunderstood me I meant the striping AND the backlight bleeding!! And you're welcome!!