NCASE M1 version changelog and suggestions thread

Rhialto

Gawd
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Messages
543
- would also be nice if the perforations on all panels were smaller so they had a finer aesthetic quality.
Hell no! I'm getting a more closed look at this case since a few days and was curious about those holes. For structure rigidity and aesthetic purpose there need to be this kind of mesh but of course it's blocking some air flow compared to a plain hole.

My guess is a fan stickied to the perforations panel will do better than same fan at 10mm distance but I'm no expert.

Was wondering how to improve air flow and keep it aesthetic. Was thinking of this mod doable with a Dremel, I only did a small section:



And even better airflow but a tad less rigidity, should do just fine too (nobody should touch there anyway):



This is only required when having a fan pushing air through mesh which should improve air flow quite a bit.
 

Qrash

Gawd
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
991
Hell no! I'm getting a more closed look at this case since a few days and was curious about those holes. For structure rigidity and aesthetic purpose there need to be this kind of mesh but of course it's blocking some air flow compared to a plain hole.

My guess is a fan stickied to the perforations panel will do better than same fan at 10mm distance but I'm no expert.

Was wondering how to improve air flow and keep it aesthetic. Was thinking of this mod doable with a Dremel, I only did a small section:



And even better airflow but a tad less rigidity, should do just fine too (nobody should touch there anyway):



This is only required when having a fan pushing air through mesh which should improve air flow quite a bit.

Those mods are starting to resemble a flag I've seen somewhere...
 

gsilver

Gawd
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
635
I would *love* to see an XL version which supports a short ATX power supply along with a full-sized video card (maybe support either a 3.5" HDD or another fan at the top with the added clearance).
That's the only thing preventing me from replacing my desktop with one of these.

Or if SFX power supplies got better/quieter. That'd help a lot, too.


And I definitely want to keep the 3rd PCI-E slot.
After learning of 2.5-slot GPUs that it's compatible with, I very much have a use for it.

My goals for PC builds are as quiet and compact as possible, in that order.
 
Last edited:

Brandito

n00b
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
8
I would *love* to see an XL version which supports a short ATX power supply along with a full-sized video card (maybe support either a 3.5" HDD or another fan at the top with the added clearance).
That's the only thing preventing me from replacing my desktop with one of these.

Or if SFX power supplies got better/quieter. That'd help a lot, too.


And I definitely want to keep the 3rd PCI-E slot.
After learning of 2.5-slot GPUs that it's compatible with, I very much have a use for it.

My goals for PC builds are as quiet and compact as possible, in that order.

I have a 600 watt Corsair SFX PSU and the fan rarely even spins.
 

Qrash

Gawd
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
991
I would *love* to see an XL version which supports a short ATX power supply along with a full-sized video card (maybe support either a 3.5" HDD or another fan at the top with the added clearance).
That's the only thing preventing me from replacing my desktop with one of these.

Or if SFX power supplies got better/quieter. That'd help a lot, too.


And I definitely want to keep the 3rd PCI-E slot.
After learning of 2.5-slot GPUs that it's compatible with, I very much have a use for it.

My goals for PC builds are as quiet and compact as possible, in that order.

I think Corsair did a great job with the SF450 and SF600 in terms of noise and electrical performance.

The only room for improvement, in my opinion, would be less stiff cables and simplifying the 24-pin ATX cable (now it's composed of 4 ribbons and two connectors at the power supply).
 

DaTraS

n00b
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
3
Actually, I've got another idea about mounting 6TB+ HDDs in the ground.
First I thought about a Caddy, which would mount the 3,5" at side rails in the 2,5" screwholes but then I realized all we'd really need is a single-bay version oft the 2x 3,5" drive caddy for the sidepanel! You could mount it on the fan mounting holes in the bottom and everything would be fine!

How about that?
 

stan2016

n00b
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
4
I recently bought a Samsung 950 pro NVMe during sale, but it overheated and crashed during windows installation, any ways in improving the temperature, it looks ugly to add a fan outside the case.
I got myself a redux fan to try to match the case colour, temps are great now.
I was wondering if there are any future versions of the M1: since noctua doesn't make C14 at 130mm height anymore, and the C14S is slightly shorter, could there be a chance of increasing the height of the motherboard by 15mm, and shortening the height for the CPU cooler, so the size of the case is the same, but at the back you can now add a fan for the M.2 SSD, and some cable management?
 
Last edited:

Necere

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,751
Actually, I've got another idea about mounting 6TB+ HDDs in the ground.
First I thought about a Caddy, which would mount the 3,5" at side rails in the 2,5" screwholes but then I realized all we'd really need is a single-bay version oft the 2x 3,5" drive caddy for the sidepanel! You could mount it on the fan mounting holes in the bottom and everything would be fine!

How about that?
Not sure there's enough space below the GPU for that since a cage/caddy for the drive would take up a bit of space, and there's only just enough for the HDD as is. Supporting those drives (with the rare screw hole locations) on the floor is an edge case anyway. If it was a simple change to the holes cut into the case floor I'd consider it, but I can't really justify adding another bracket.

I recently bought a Samsung 950 pro NVMe during sale, but it overheated and crashed during windows installation, any ways in improving the temperature, it looks ugly to add a fan outside the case.
I got myself a redux fan to try to match the case colour, temps are great now.
I was wondering if there are any future versions of the M1: since noctua doesn't make C14 at 130mm height anymore, and the C14S is slightly shorter, could there be a chance of increasing the height of the motherboard by 15mm, and shortening the height for the CPU cooler, so the size of the case is the same, but at the back you can now add a fan for the M.2 SSD, and some cable management?
That's crazy the drive couldn't even handle installing windows, when there's no other significant load on the system and temps should otherwise be pretty low. Honestly, if the drive can't handle that completely typical situation, there's something wrong with it.

As far as moving the motherboard over, no, I have no inclination to do that. That would reduce the available space for GPUs/PCIe power connectors, and as it is some taller cards already barely fit.
 

stan2016

n00b
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
4
Not sure there's enough space below the GPU for that since a cage/caddy for the drive would take up a bit of space, and there's only just enough for the HDD as is. Supporting those drives (with the rare screw hole locations) on the floor is an edge case anyway. If it was a simple change to the holes cut into the case floor I'd consider it, but I can't really justify adding another bracket.

That's crazy the drive couldn't even handle installing windows, when there's no other significant load on the system and temps should otherwise be pretty low. Honestly, if the drive can't handle that completely typical situation, there's something wrong with it.

As far as moving the motherboard over, no, I have no inclination to do that. That would reduce the available space for GPUs/PCIe power connectors, and as it is some taller cards already barely fit.
You are so right, that's why it was on sale, and there is now 960 pro with improved thermals, 2016 was an exceptional year for Samsung with fast flaming electronics. And their reply to my issue was "shutdown of the drive was a built in protection system", I'm thankful that I didn't turn my Ncase into a BBQ pit! Now that would be exciting, but I can't deny it is pretty fast with a fan beside it.
 
Last edited:

Rhialto

Gawd
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Messages
543
With all the RGB coming maybe it's a good idea to start discussing about a simple mod for the M1. I'm not talking about a windowed panel as I know it has been discussed many times and would require too much case reworking. Many are already looking for an ITX case that support some RGB lightning and without going extreme I think this would add a nice touch and would easy to achieve in a short period without having to wait 8 months.

I think having a small line like this, maybe 2mm wide and filled by sand blasted transparent plastic (aka frosty) would add a nice touch, one could stick a LED strips behind it for a nice effect. This mod would be easy to do by Lian Li and people would only have to choose if they want the panel with or without that line just like they do for optical drive. Another option would be to offer both insert, a black one and transparent frosty users would quickly snap in. I even think it can be done without additional cost just like for the drive slot.



I would prefer further M1 RGB discussions to go in this thread.
 
Last edited:

Mackan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
379
How did it go with the evaluation of the sandblasted side panels? Will they be available for Ncase?
 

case1

n00b
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
24
When are we expecting the sand-blasted finishes to be available to buy (unless they already are now).
 

Necere

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,751
How did it go with the evaluation of the sandblasted side panels? Will they be available for Ncase?

When are we expecting the sand-blasted finishes to be available to buy (unless they already are now).
Finishing the panels had to wait until after the Chinese New Year, and now they're en route via ocean freight to the US. We're not expecting them to arrive until May.
 
  • Like
Reactions: case1
like this

case1

n00b
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
24
Finishing the panels had to wait until after the Chinese New Year, and now they're en route via ocean freight to the US. We're not expecting them to arrive until May.

That sounds perfect, looking to build the system around June-August.
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
12
I had a thought for an improvement as I was trying to get my build to work and having lots of power cord issues. I mounted a Corsair SF600 with the fan point out, which means I couldn't use the usual loop method and had to coil it around (without shelling out for the left angled connector). I also ran into a problem with the way I mounted my heatsink, because with the NH-U9S in vertical with two fans, the upper fan sits up into the power cord space -- and with the V5 power cable with the jacket, I couldn't bend the cable enough to get around the heatsink without really bending it.

It might be nice to change the back pack power connector essentially into a passthrough connector. Then the user to just get whatever power cable/length they need on the inside. It's hard to find many panel mount connectors, so this would make it easier for people to get what they need while keeping a clean case.

This old reddit thread has the sort of think I'm thinking off, although no seems to be able to provide a flush mounted panel version. Of course, I still might make it stick too far out into the case.
 

Hermit2001

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 25, 2015
Messages
114
I think this has sort-of been discussed before but not succinctly:
As well as the left and right angled IEC connectors, would it be possible to supply a down-angled, or up-angled version?
No changes to the M1 necessary.
 

Rhialto

Gawd
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Messages
543
Any word when a USB 3.1 Front I/O will be available? I'm thinking of all the ASUS Strix Z270i Gaming motherboard owners, many eye this board to go along this case. The cable will need to be long enough to reach onboard connector for this particular board!
 
Last edited:

Necere

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,751
I think this has sort-of been discussed before but not succinctly:
As well as the left and right angled IEC connectors, would it be possible to supply a down-angled, or up-angled version?
No changes to the M1 necessary.
We've discussed it, but at this point there are no plans for it since the left/right angled C13s cover 99% of use cases.

Any word when a USB 3.1 Front I/O will be available? I'm thinking of all the ASUS Strix Z270i Gaming motherboard owners, many eye this board to go along this case. The cable will need to be long enough to reach onboard connector for this particular board!
No, and I expect it will be a while yet.
 

{NG}Fidel

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 17, 2005
Messages
6,286
Hate to beat a dead horse but what makes a glass or acrylic side panel something you won't do? Even if it had perforations for air flow I'd still love it. Also been having difficulty finding a custom glass/acrylic Company that's willing to take the task up.
Also will you be updating the gpu compatibility list for Vega and the 1080ti
 

Tyki

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
69
1080ti should have the same coolers as their 1080 counterparts. I'm pretty sure most companies aren't changing the design much between them.

Regarding the glass/acrylic, think about the cost to them. They would need to sell a lot for it to be reasonable to purchase a lot, when the demand for an already pretty niche case is low. If you want it, you need to find it. Try asking out of state/country to see if someone will ship you one if you really want it.
 

case1

n00b
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
24
1080ti should have the same coolers as their 1080 counterparts. I'm pretty sure most companies aren't changing the design much between them.

Regarding the glass/acrylic, think about the cost to them. They would need to sell a lot for it to be reasonable to purchase a lot, when the demand for an already pretty niche case is low. If you want it, you need to find it. Try asking out of state/country to see if someone will ship you one if you really want it.
Yep, although I think the demand of these would be a bit more than sandblasted finished panels (which won't come included but at an additional cost - which could put people off).

I think it should be a potential upgrade at purchase, otherwise you end up with wasted panels.
 

{NG}Fidel

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 17, 2005
Messages
6,286
Yep, although I think the demand of these would be a bit more than sandblasted finished panels (which won't come included but at an additional cost - which could put people off).

I think it should be a potential upgrade at purchase, otherwise you end up with wasted panels.
I would have bought 3 of the glass panels by now. They should do limited batches where they only place the order after they get enough demand. I'll pre order for a glass window for my eventual 1080ti
 

Necere

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,751
I did update the first post not too long ago to address the most common requests we get, including people asking about a window.

Basically, there's no way to be able to use the fan bracket with a windowed side panel, which severely limits the kinds of builds that are possible in the case. A glass panel isn't an option, because there's no way to attach it to the frame. It would need to be an aluminum side panel with a cutout for the window and a piece of acrylic or polycarbonate attached to it. I don't love the idea of that, frankly, because they have a tendency to scratch easily.
 

okwchin

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
357
I prefer the look of the acrylic within the alum panel as it resolves the mounting issue. If it were to go one way, this is my preference from a functional perspective.

Scratching is a concern for the owner, and is something that needs to be their responsibility. Its the nature of the material. But as much as it might look impressive, I would not be doing a windowed panel because the cooling performance of a top town cooler like the C14 and its silence at idle makes it a no-brainer as to which way this system Needs to be setup. I personally love looking at the show cases that the windowed M1s are, but my own system will be an air-cooled filtered and silent system.
 

Tephnos

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
489
Why limited edition? You mean as a bundle and not just the panels separate?

Also, here are some critical suggestions I have for the NCASE:

1.) The aluminium frame was a mistake, IMO. It is too flexible compared to a rigid steel one and because it is so soft and thin I have serious concerns about the long-term durability of the case. It is way too easy to strip a screw hole and completely screw yourself. I think the case should focus on both looks and durability, not favour looks over the latter The added weight from going steel at this size would be negligible. To sum up, non-magnetic is annoying, threads strip like mad, and it can be easy to bend with aluminium.

2.) The finish on the frame is bad. Seriously bad. Every single build I've seen has stripped paint because it is cheap and soft. This should have been powder coated, which is far more durable than a paint finish and stands up well to areas which have been screwed.

I feel in terms of design, you guys are done. In terms of polish, you still have a ways to go. Give me powder coated steel interior and whatever exterior aesthetic you like. If I end up irreparably strip something or bend the frame out of shape too much... yeah, I probably wouldn't buy another one with such glaring flaws.
 

Necere

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,751
Why limited edition? You mean as a bundle and not just the panels separate?

Also, here are some critical suggestions I have for the NCASE:

1.) The aluminium frame was a mistake, IMO. It is too flexible compared to a rigid steel one and because it is so soft and thin I have serious concerns about the long-term durability of the case. It is way too easy to strip a screw hole and completely screw yourself. I think the case should focus on both looks and durability, not favour looks over the latter The added weight from going steel at this size would be negligible. To sum up, non-magnetic is annoying, threads strip like mad, and it can be easy to bend with aluminium.

2.) The finish on the frame is bad. Seriously bad. Every single build I've seen has stripped paint because it is cheap and soft. This should have been powder coated, which is far more durable than a paint finish and stands up well to areas which have been screwed.

I feel in terms of design, you guys are done. In terms of polish, you still have a ways to go. Give me powder coated steel interior and whatever exterior aesthetic you like. If I end up irreparably strip something or bend the frame out of shape too much... yeah, I probably wouldn't buy another one with such glaring flaws.
I feel like we've been getting more complaints about the paint lately. There hasn't been any change that I'm aware of, so is it people just getting less forgiving about the flaws, or what? You mainly get paint loss at the screw holes, or hard scratches on the frame, neither of which you'll typically see with the panels on. The problem with powder coating is it adds a non-negligible thickness to the frame, and because some parts are so tight, it could throw off the fit. But I understand it's a problem for some people, and it's something we'll have to look into. I wonder if the DAN A4 will get these complaints too, since it's also made by Lian Li using the same processes.

Changing the frame to steel is even more problematic than powder coating, unfortunately. A lot of things depend on the material being 1.5mm thick, which is too thick for steel. You can't flush fit countersink screws in less than that, for example. It would require a complete re-engineering and in many cases a rethink of the chassis. For the stripped screw threads, we did add steel inserts where the fan bracket attaches, which are some of the most used screws on the case. Personally, I've never stripped a single thread on the case, but I understand it can happen if people use the wrong screws or overtighten them.

Ironically, I've seen people say they believe the frame is already steel - mnpctech recently had a guy bring his M1 on to the stream who said this exact thing. I don't know why anyone would get that impression, though.

I don't know to what extent we'll be able to fix these issues on the current M1, honestly, since like I said, they require a total re-engineering effort. It's good to have the feedback though, regardless, because at least I can use it to improve on future designs.

Remember too that I went into this with no engineering training or experience, so I basically looked at how Lian Li designed their cases and based it on that. These complaints could just as well be directed at them.

Well... I'm still eyeing for a silver M1, now you tell it's painted? :meh:
Only the chassis is painted black on both silver and black versions. The exterior panels for both colors are brushed and anodized.
 

Tephnos

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
489
I feel like we've been getting more complaints about the paint lately. There hasn't been any change that I'm aware of, so is it people just getting less forgiving about the flaws, or what? You mainly get paint loss at the screw holes, or hard scratches on the frame, neither of which you'll typically see with the panels on. The problem with powder coating is it adds a non-negligible thickness to the frame, and because some parts are so tight, it could throw off the fit. But I understand it's a problem for some people, and it's something we'll have to look into. I wonder if the DAN A4 will get these complaints too, since it's also made by Lian Li using the same processes.

Changing the frame to steel is even more problematic than powder coating, unfortunately. A lot of things depend on the material being 1.5mm thick, which is too thick for steel. You can't flush fit countersink screws in less than that, for example. It would require a complete re-engineering and in many cases a rethink of the chassis. For the stripped screw threads, we did add steel inserts where the fan bracket attaches, which are some of the most used screws on the case. Personally, I've never stripped a single thread on the case, but I understand it can happen if people use the wrong screws or overtighten them.

Ironically, I've seen people say they believe the frame is already steel - mnpctech recently had a guy bring his M1 on to the stream who said this exact thing. I don't know why anyone would get that impression, though.

I don't know to what extent we'll be able to fix these issues on the current M1, honestly, since like I said, they require a total re-engineering effort. It's good to have the feedback though, regardless, because at least I can use it to improve on future designs.

Remember too that I went into this with no engineering training or experience, so I basically looked at how Lian Li designed their cases and based it on that. These complaints could just as well be directed at them.

Only the chassis is painted black on both silver and black versions. The exterior panels for both colors are brushed and anodized.

Hi,

Nice to see a quick response.

I don't think it would have been a minor revision, no. Steel would have to be for an M2 or something, as it would be an absurd ask to make the v6 have such a dramatic change. It is just that the stripping is always going to be a huge future concern, particularly due to the fact that you guys have not been clear on what your plans are if you decide to end the M1 project. Is it going to be discontinued, or will you sell the design on to a manufacturer? If no, then if I ever strip something, I'm SOL which would be sad considering I wanted this to be the 'end all' of cases unless future standards end up changing. I should only ever get rid of a case because I'm tired of it, not because I fucked something up. Who knows, maybe nylon screws are the way to go for this current iteration of the case?

As for the paint, it is mostly a concern because it is a premium product, so it feels lacking when the paint will come away so easily. Perhaps people are becoming less forgiving of the flaws because the M1 has been around for a number of years now, and expectations have grown?

And yeah, I never did like Lian-Li cases. I was only interested because of the M1.
 
Last edited:

Chapeau

Gawd
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
752
I feel like we've been getting more complaints about the paint lately. There hasn't been any change that I'm aware of, so is it people just getting less forgiving about the flaws, or what? You mainly get paint loss at the screw holes, or hard scratches on the frame, neither of which you'll typically see with the panels on. The problem with powder coating is it adds a non-negligible thickness to the frame, and because some parts are so tight, it could throw off the fit. But I understand it's a problem for some people, and it's something we'll have to look into. I wonder if the DAN A4 will get these complaints too, since it's also made by Lian Li using the same processes.

Changing the frame to steel is even more problematic than powder coating, unfortunately. A lot of things depend on the material being 1.5mm thick, which is too thick for steel. You can't flush fit countersink screws in less than that, for example. It would require a complete re-engineering and in many cases a rethink of the chassis. For the stripped screw threads, we did add steel inserts where the fan bracket attaches, which are some of the most used screws on the case. Personally, I've never stripped a single thread on the case, but I understand it can happen if people use the wrong screws or overtighten them.

Ironically, I've seen people say they believe the frame is already steel - mnpctech recently had a guy bring his M1 on to the stream who said this exact thing. I don't know why anyone would get that impression, though.

I don't know to what extent we'll be able to fix these issues on the current M1, honestly, since like I said, they require a total re-engineering effort. It's good to have the feedback though, regardless, because at least I can use it to improve on future designs.

Remember too that I went into this with no engineering training or experience, so I basically looked at how Lian Li designed their cases and based it on that. These complaints could just as well be directed at them.

Only the chassis is painted black on both silver and black versions. The exterior panels for both colors are brushed and anodized.

The paint issue arises because for most, this is a premium priced product. It also seems to be a uniquely enthusiast product as opposed to mainstream "game boxes". I see far more people revising their builds and trying new coolers, fans, etc..

However, I would say that as far as black paint quality goes, this isn't so great. This particular paint uses does seem far easier to damage than usual.

Personally I'd love to see an anodised finish as this also improves surface hardness in a way that would likely directly improve the scratch resistance.
There are cost issues with anodising which might be overcome with large enough orders. Additionally achieving uniform colour across batches can be difficult for suppliers.
Of course - you'd know all about this already with the side panels.

I'd counter the complaint of the alu frame - It's plenty strong. It's also easy to mod which I love.
 

Bawjaws

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
450
My M1 is a v2 so it's seen a fair bit of use, and sure, there's been a fair bit of paint stripped off the metal (particularly on the side bracket) and a few scratches and marks on the likes of the wee plate GPU that lives above the PCIE brackets. I have to say that I've never had this issue with any other case I've owned, but in fairness it doesn't actually bother me because none of the marks are visible when the panels are on and the case is sitting on the desk. All of the panels are absolutely pristine, with no marks or scrapes on them (just fingerprints... :D). In terms of the frame itself, I've never had any concerns that it wasn't strong or stiff enough.

I'd much rather have the side panels being robust and the frame wearing a bit than vice-versa, so as far as I'm concerned it's not a issue at all.
 

Tephnos

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
489
My complaint about the frame robustness mainly comes from the fact that mine arrived wobbly - when I emailed I was shown a video on bending it 'back into place'. That was pretty alarming, and I tried it after getting some free time just a couple of days ago - can't get it straight. The fact you can bend the entire frame with just your hands alone is what makes me a bit concerned for its structural integrity.

Also, anodizing would help with scratch resistance but wouldn't solve screw thread problems. I'm seriously considering nylon screws that are fibreglass reinforced just so that if something strips it's gonna be the screws and not the frame.

I don't agree that 'marks are fine when you can't see them'. It's a premium price for a premium product; this would not cut it elsewhere.
 

No Hands 55

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 4, 2014
Messages
179
welp. i changed my graphics card for the 5th time ever in this case, and the middle gpu screw hole stripped... im delicate with all my things, was screwing this in super gentle because ive heard about threads stripping, 3 small metal rings fell out of the hole. I can only assume these were the threads inside the hole because now the screw just sits in there :/

pretty bummed about this because of the price i paid for it and ive treated this case like an absolute baby...
 

Necere

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,751
Ouch, that sucks. Are you 100% sure you were using the correct screws? It's pretty easy to get M3 and 6-32 mixed up, and they will strip if the threads are mismatched.

All
the chassis threads (including the brackets) on the M1 are M3 threaded, and there are only five 6-32 screws included for PSU mounting (don't use them for anything else!). Those should be in their own labeled bag. Any other screws you get with your PSU, motherboard, etc. should not be used, unless you're sure those are also M3 threaded.
 
Top