NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

A tip on that solution: you don't want to rotate your case around with any HDDs powered, they don't like that as it puts torsion on the bearings and could damage the heads. So be sure to disconnect them from the SATA power plugs before doing this or power just the pump.

Is that a problem with 2.5" HDDs, too? Those are made for Laptops and from all I know, they are able to lift the heads from the platters to protect the drive in case of fall or sudden movement.

Still, better safe than sorry, so just power the pump on its own and follow EdZ' instructions.
 
Some pics of my new build - have moved from air to water now :)
Ncase%20M1%20-26.jpg
Nice one, well done!
 
Is that a problem with 2.5" HDDs, too? Those are made for Laptops and from all I know, they are able to lift the heads from the platters to protect the drive in case of fall or sudden movement.
Laptop drives to a lesser extent, but 10k or 15k rpm 2,5" drives still are not happy with turning it on any axis, like the Velociraptor and enterprise SFF drives.
 
There MAY be an issue if you use a GPU that runs rather hot. If you look at Necere's tests with the NCase steam machine project with the GTX770 (I think it was the GTX770. He tested two GPUs), just having a 2TB 2.5" HDD behind the GPU caused it to go to 50 degrees Celsius (usually they run 25 to 30 degrees). There's some issues with M.2 SSDs throttling when getting too hot (Samsungs at least from Anandtech's tests) so if you run a really hot GPU, the M.2 SSD will get pretty toasty and perform worse and might have a shorter lifespan.

I found the 3x thermal testing link where he had the Radeon 7970. I have a 950 Pro, and I think that throttling is just a fact of life. As far as I know, it just slows down a little, but doesn't fail. I'm fine with that. I wanted an M.2 to reduce cable clutter, and I'm not planning on running any other SSD or HDD

I was hoping to keep it cool by running two intake fans on the bottom, and two exhaust fans on the side. Would that be enough to cool a non reference video card?

My other option for a case would be the Case Labs X2M, but there would be a lot of empty space for what I would do with it.
 
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Very cool, wasn't expecting that. Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays!

You too! Very much so enjoying the holidays with my M1 V4 now housing 12 Haswelll-E cores and a 980 Ti :D


Seriously though, does anyone know if low profile 8-pin GPU power cables exist? Without them I have to run the case with one side off.
 
Has anybody had trouble with interference from the front panel USB3 ports? I have my wireless mouse receiver plugged into one, and I've noticed that if I plug a thumb drive or SD card reader into the other, my mouse is unusable for a few seconds, then extremely jumpy for a while after that. I've also noticed poor wireless mouse performance in general.

I did some research, and found this:

http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/whitepapers/327216.pdf

According to that white paper, USB3 ports are capable of producing interference in the 2.4Ghz spectrum.

I'm not sure if the shielding on the front ports is the culprit, but I've been trying for a while to figure out why I have so many issues with my wireless mouse, as well as extremely poor Bluetooth performance. Just curious if anyone else has noticed similar behavior.

This is driving me crazy. Is the only option to use a wired mouse if you want to use USB3.0 peripherals? If I use one of the USB2.0 ports on the back of the case for my wireless mouse receiver, it's about three feet from the mouse, and wireless performance is poor. If I use one of the USB3.0 ports on the front panel, the wireless mouse receiver is 18-24" from the mouse, and wireless performance is generally good, unless I want to use the other front panel USB3.0 port, which renders the mouse completely unusable.

I've been through two different mice, and tried them on several different computers. My NCASE build is the only system that has this problem. It's also my only system with USB3.0 ports. Is 2.4Ghz no longer an acceptable spectrum for wireless peripherals now that our computers have USB3.0 ports emitting interference on that wavelength?

The fact that I have more than two USB devices (wired keyboard, wireless mouse, DAC, HDD dock, thumb drive, SD card reader) means I have to use some USB3.0 or USB3.1 ports as there are only two USB2.0 ports. This could mean that those USB3.0 ports are constantly emitting interference and result in the weak range of the wireless mouse as well as almost non-existent Bluetooth performance. A USB hub connected to the USB2.0 ports could be a solution, but I really hate USB hubs and the extra wires :) Not to mention this solution would severely slow down the performance of my thumb drive, HDD dock, and SD card reader.
 
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This is driving me crazy. Is the only option to use a wired mouse if you want to use USB3.0 peripherals? If I use one of the USB2.0 ports on the back of the case for my wireless mouse receiver, it's about three feet from the mouse, and wireless performance is poor. If I use one of the USB3.0 ports on the front panel, the wireless mouse receiver is 18-24" from the mouse, and wireless performance is generally good, unless I want to use the other front panel USB3.0 port, which renders the mouse completely unusable.

I've been through two different mice, and tried them on several different computers. My NCASE build is the only system that has this problem. It's also my only system with USB3.0 ports. Is 2.4Ghz no longer an acceptable spectrum for wireless peripherals now that our computers have USB3.0 ports emitting interference on that wavelength?

I do have this issue too. This and the GPU power cables preventing me from closing the side panel are my only gripes right now.

One USB3 port in use, everything's good. Two in use, wireless keyboard goes nuts / hangs.
 
Seriously though, does anyone know if low profile 8-pin GPU power cables exist? Without them I have to run the case with one side off.

With a 6-pin connector I was able to bend the cable out of the way just enough to attach the side of the case.

Have you looked into a 90 degree adapter? That was my next thing to try if bending the cables didn't work.
 
Air can get trapped in the pump unit of the H75 and make a lot of noise. Try rotating the case about (may need to do so with the pump active) to allow the air to escape out and into the top of the radiator.

It doesn't sound like a pump issue, it sounds like a fan issue for some reason. Ill give it a try.
 
This is driving me crazy. Is the only option to use a wired mouse if you want to use USB3.0 peripherals? If I use one of the USB2.0 ports on the back of the case for my wireless mouse receiver, it's about three feet from the mouse, and wireless performance is poor. If I use one of the USB3.0 ports on the front panel, the wireless mouse receiver is 18-24" from the mouse, and wireless performance is generally good, unless I want to use the other front panel USB3.0 port, which renders the mouse completely unusable.

I've been through two different mice, and tried them on several different computers. My NCASE build is the only system that has this problem. It's also my only system with USB3.0 ports. Is 2.4Ghz no longer an acceptable spectrum for wireless peripherals now that our computers have USB3.0 ports emitting interference on that wavelength?

The fact that I have more than two USB devices (wired keyboard, wireless mouse, DAC, HDD dock, thumb drive, SD card reader) means I have to use some USB3.0 or USB3.1 ports as there are only two USB2.0 ports. This could mean that those USB3.0 ports are constantly emitting interference and result in the weak range of the wireless mouse as well as almost non-existent Bluetooth performance. A USB hub connected to the USB2.0 ports could be a solution, but I really hate USB hubs and the extra wires :) Not to mention this solution would severely slow down the performance of my thumb drive, HDD dock, and SD card reader.
Well, I'm no EE, so my knowledge in this area is pretty limited. I did a little googling and apparently the nvidia Shield suffers from the same problem, which is due to unshielded USB ports. I think the difference there is the case is made out of plastic, whereas the the entire front of the M1 and the area around the USB ports is solid 1.5mm aluminum, which should block or at least reduce most EMI. Which leads me to think it there must be a hole letting it through... and what comes to mind is the power button. It's ~13mm in diameter and mostly plastic, and sits right next to the USB ports, so it would seem to be a likely culprit. Easy way to test it is just to cover the power button with foil/EMI tape/a piece of metal.

If that doesn't work, there may be someplace else it's escaping, but if it happens the EMI is getting through that way, I can see two possibilities for fixing it: 1.) cover up the back of the power button and block the hole as much as possible with EMI tape (not sure how viable this is); or 2.) wrap the plastic USB module completely in EMI tape.
 
Thanks for the insight Necere. I'll pick up some EMI tape, try the solutions you proposed, and report back.
 
It doesn't sound like a pump issue, it sounds like a fan issue for some reason. Ill give it a try.

Ok, seems like most of the noise is from the Silverstone SFX-L 500w PSU.

Seems that since I'm blowing hot air on the back of the PSU now, the PSU fan has to almost constantly run.
 
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With a 6-pin connector I was able to bend the cable out of the way just enough to attach the side of the case.

Have you looked into a 90 degree adapter? That was my next thing to try if bending the cables didn't work.

I've tried my hardest but the MSI card seems to be wide enough to prevent standard power cables from clearing.

Have you seen 90 degree adapters anywhere? I've been searching for days and all I come across are dead eBay links from years past and no leads on currently available 90-degree adapters or cable runs for dual 8 pin.

edit: Think I found one! "Right angle" were the magic words:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/261450244013?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82

Can't make the purchase because it's Christmas and they don't allow it? But pumped to find the final piece to the puzzle.
 
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Does anyone know if a MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Lightning 6GB card will fit inside an ncase m1?

I don't think this card fits. Looks like it's 330mm long and maximum length for the NCASE is 317mm. It's also 13mm wider than my 980 TI Gaming 6G which already baaaarely clears the side of the case and needs special power cables to do so. I'd recommend the one I've got if you're looking at MSI.
 
Does a 15,788 Firestrike score sound about right for a 5820k and 980ti in an ncase?

I see people in the 16,000 range with the same processor and gpu...
 
Does a 15,788 Firestrike score sound about right for a 5820k and 980ti in an ncase?

I see people in the 16,000 range with the same processor and gpu...

is the gpu overclocked at all? Seems a little low, but I doubt the case will be holding you back...
 
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Any suggestions on Motherboard + Ram?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...$$$$$$$;13-128-847:$$$$$$$;13-128-846:$$$$$$$

These are the only 3 with USB TYPE-C ports. Leaning towards the GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170N-Gaming 5.

Already bought this ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231974

Planning on just using my corsair h100 for now for cooling. I'd really like to put a dark rock pro in it but I'm not sure if it'll fit. The Corsair H105 will fit too right?

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/Hydro_Series_H105/7.html Here's as good comparison of noise levels.

NZAKEXF.png
kabutoii-g21.gif
 
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It's worth noting that the GA-Z170N-WIFI and Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming-ITX/ac both use an ASMedia chipset for USB 3.1, whereas the GA-Z170N-Gaming 5 uses an Intel Alpine Ridge chipset (read: Thunderbolt 3-capable if Gigabyte releases the BIOS update for it, and they've released it for other Z170 boards with Alpine Ridge).

You left off the Asus Maximus VIII Impact (also using Alpine Ridge), though.

Myself, I'll be building with the GA-Z170N-Gaming 5.

Also, the Dark Rock Pro 3 is 163 mm tall, it won't even come close to fitting. (130-132 mm max height, IIRC. I'm going to be running a Scythe Kabuto II, it looks like it'll line up perfectly, and then it's a top-down cooler.)
 
I'm going to be running a Scythe Kabuto II, it looks like it'll line up perfectly, and then it's a top-down cooler.)
It does indeed line up perfectly, unless the board has a weird CPU socket location but with Z170 that seems to have been more universally centered. If you can get a Kabuto II, it's an excellent choice for the M1.

I suggest removing the metal bar that holds the upper portion to the base plate, if the upper heatsink part isn't level. Mine was off severely, I removed the metal bar (just pull it out) and bent it straight. To quote Ghandi: "shit looks tight yo".
 
I found where someone had used a Kabuto II in an NCASE M1 (might've been you, actually), found an image of the board that they used, overlaid it on a GA-Z170N-Gaming 5 in GIMP, and it all lined up perfectly. And, I had seen on Scythe's EU site that the Kabuto II was discontinued, found one on Amazon (I'm in the US), and ordered it. It's been on the shelf for a couple months now waiting on the case and everything else. Turns out it's not actually discontinued in the US, but hey.
 
is the gpu overclocked at all? Seems a little low, but I doubt the case will be holding you back...

Slightly overclocked, +220mhz gpu, +100mhz vram, 3.9ghz cpu. Temps on the gpu get to the high 70s. When doing the asus stress test, both cpu and gpu get to the high 70s. Im only getting 1350 or so boost :/

I feel like the case might have something to do with it. Only one fan vs 2 for each rad, hot air is blowing on the mobo and isnt really getting exhausted besides passively.
 
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Slightly overclocked, +220mhz gpu, +100mhz vram, 3.9ghz cpu. Temps on the gpu get to the high 70s. When doing the asus stress test, both cpu and gpu get to the high 70s. Im only getting 1350 or so boost :/

I feel like the case might have something to do with it. Only one fan vs 2 for each rad, hot air is blowing on the mobo and isnt really getting exhausted besides passively.

I think you should be getting higher on Firestrike @1350...

High 70s isn't anything to worry about and is not going to be hitting the thermal cap, so you shouldn't be getting limited.

What score so you get stock?
I'm not sure what you mean re. only 1 fan vs 2 - do you mean push pull?
 
Any suggestions on Motherboard + Ram?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...$$$$$$$;13-128-847:$$$$$$$;13-128-846:$$$$$$$

These are the only 3 with USB TYPE-C ports. Leaning towards the GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170N-Gaming 5.

Already bought this ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231974

Planning on just using my corsair h100 for now for cooling. I'd really like to put a dark rock pro in it but I'm not sure if it'll fit. The Corsair H105 will fit too right?

I would go with the ASRock over the Gigabyte for two reasons:
1. more USB 3.0 ports on IO
2. BIOS reset switch on IO

If you're using only an M.2 SSD and are going ODD-less I would choose the H105 because you can completely ditch the SATA power cables. I regret going with the H100i because I need a solitary SATA power cable to run its pump.
 
I think you should be getting higher on Firestrike @1350...

High 70s isn't anything to worry about and is not going to be hitting the thermal cap, so you shouldn't be getting limited.

What score so you get stock?
I'm not sure what you mean re. only 1 fan vs 2 - do you mean push pull?

Yeah, push/pull ideally vs only pull. 13801 at stock clocks on the 980ti.
 
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It's worth noting that the GA-Z170N-WIFI and Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming-ITX/ac both use an ASMedia chipset for USB 3.1, whereas the GA-Z170N-Gaming 5 uses an Intel Alpine Ridge chipset (read: Thunderbolt 3-capable if Gigabyte releases the BIOS update for it, and they've released it for other Z170 boards with Alpine Ridge)

Gigabyte have pretty much already released Thunderbolt 3 in the GA-Z170N Gaming 5 F4c BIOS update. It's not enabled by default, (I have modified the BIOS slightly and enabled it on mine) but I would say it is not far away from being enabled (probably when they take F4c out of beta).

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1042049820&postcount=743
 
I would go with the ASRock over the Gigabyte for two reasons:
1. more USB 3.0 ports on IO
2. BIOS reset switch on IO

If you're using only an M.2 SSD and are going ODD-less I would choose the H105 because you can completely ditch the SATA power cables. I regret going with the H100i because I need a solitary SATA power cable to run its pump.

Do the SATA cables interfere with the H105 somehow? oh wait.. the h100 + h100i need a sata power molex right?
 
Yeah I have a H105 and it does not require any sata power. I chose it over the H100 because the radiator is substantially thicker (38mm vs 27mm) and provides better cooling performance if you have the space for it.
 
You guys may be able to help me with a few questions. In a few months i want to build a new pc and i am struggling if i want to go big with SLI or small with the M1.

My main question is about the use of mainboards like those <List here>

If someone would tell me if i can throw all this in the M1 and make it quieter than my SLI gaming notebook i would be grateful!

The stuff:

- i7 6700K + best top-down cooler
- GTX 980 Ti (aftermarket) + 92mm intake in the bottom
- Elgate HD60 Pro PCIe x1
- 2x 3,5" HDD 1x 2,5" SSD
- Quiet SFX(-L) PSU
 
You guys may be able to help me with a few questions. In a few months i want to build a new pc and i am struggling if i want to go big with SLI or small with the M1.

My main question is about the use of mainboards like those <List here>

If someone would tell me if i can throw all this in the M1 and make it quieter than my SLI gaming notebook i would be grateful!

The stuff:

- i7 6700K + best top-down cooler
- GTX 980 Ti (aftermarket) + 92mm intake in the bottom
- Elgate HD60 Pro PCIe x1
- 2x 3,5" HDD 1x 2,5" SSD
- Quiet SFX(-L) PSU


You can for sure fit a very well cooled i7 6700K and a 980 Ti (check your measurements, each model is a different size), but I'd bail on the idea of fitting 3.5" HDDs in there. You can maybe fit one in front of the PSU/next to the CPU cooler, but they're typically big airflow killers. I've got a 1TB SSD but I may throw a couple 2TB 2.5" 7200rpm drives in there for extra storage. May be an option to consider.

As for a second PCI-E device, there's only one slot typically - I'm unfamiliar with the 1150/1151 boards (I'm X99) so I'll let someone else chime in, but 99% of what's out there is single slot. You may be able to get an adapter for the M.2 slot and go PCI-E x1 through there, but I'd imagine this will take some clever placement and potentially a riser/extension out from there to get it somewhere feasible.

And IMO, I don't think SLI is worth buying two 980 Tis for as it's not double the performance and doesn't quite work everywhere - the 980 Ti is pretty powerful however and you'll probably find that you won't need more. And when you do, it'll probably make more sense to go with whatever the new flagship card is at that time instead of doubling up.
 
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Thanks for the answer. For the Slot question: The linked boards are DTX/mATX. Some are ITX with with 1x X16 and 2x X1. Thats why i even considered the M1 since it has 3 expansion slots.

I would probably chose tha MSI Gaming card since the cooler exhausts more hot air trough the slots than a ACX type cooler.

When i consider SLI i would go for 21:9 1440p and with the single card the traditional 16:9 1440p.

For storage: I could settle for one 3.5" but would go big with 8TB, i need my space.

Edit:

A pictur for better understanding. This is the GIGABYTE GA-H110M-S2HP there are quiet a few 1151 boards in this "design" out there.

20150917172329_big.png


Here is a list of models availeble here in switzerland:

MSI B150M PRO-VH
MSI H110M PRO-VH
MSI H110M PRO-D

GIGABYTE GA-H110M-S2H (Rev. 1.0)
GIGABYTE GA-H110M-DS2 (Rev. 1.0)
GIGABYTE GA-H110M-S2HP (Rev. 1.0)
GIGABYTE GA-B150M-D2V (Rev. 1.0)

ASROCK H110M-HDV
ASROCK B150M-HDV

ASUS H110M-K

Those are all boards with 1x X16, 2x X1, two DIMM, and 1151 socket. There are some with 4 DIMMs but those are as with as mATX boards. What also nice is, those boards are all under 100$! Mostly in the 60-70$ zone.
 
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Yeah, push/pull ideally vs only pull. 13801 at stock clocks on the 980ti.

Hmm definitely seems lower than I would expect?
The only way that the "case" will be affecting your score however is if you're getting throttled, which you won't be if you're maxing ~70C. Just double check in GPUz or Afterburner etc for max temps to confirm.

Otherwise check your GPU drivers/BIOS etc
 
For the Slot question: The linked boards are DTX/mATX. Some are ITX with with 1x X16 and 2x X1. Thats why i even considered the M1 since it has 3 expansion slots.
You typically want a PCIe x1 (or better) slot as the first PCIe slot and the PCIe x16 slot as the second slot, so your GPU can sit lower in the Ncase, allowing the fan(s) to sit closer to the bottom. This eliminates most of the air-recycling part. It also allows the secondary card to not block your GPU like it would if it was slotted beneath the GPU.

Those are all boards with 1x X16, 2x X1, two DIMM, and 1151 socket. There are some with 4 DIMMs but those are as with as mATX boards. What also nice is, those boards are all under 100$! Mostly in the 60-70$ zone.
There is a reason they are so cheap, because they are low-spec boards. EDIT: the PCIe piece is wrong, it's the southbridge connections. This means PCIe 2.0 x4 for the GPU (for the H110), the cheaper Realtek audio chips, Realtek network adapters and often a lot less (modern) ports on the I/O. They are all H110 and B150 chipsets which are basically the cheapest, most basic chipsets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets#100_Series_chipsets

EDIT: the next line is wrong too. I would not be using any of the H110 boards with a GTX 980 Ti, it could be a very real bottleneck.
 
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Hi guys!

I was wondering if it worth placing a 80/92mm fan on the rear mount? As I know smaller fans produce alot of noise, would it be worth the heat dissipation?

Currently I am using a reference 980ti and the stock intel cooler.
I have 2 120mm fans installed, 1 directly below the GPU's fan and another on the left of the 240mm bracket. I am currently using the other half of the bracket to hold a single HDD.

Would it be wise to shift the HDD to another spot and put 2 intakes on the 240mm bracket instead of 1 80/92mm exhaust? If so, where should I place the HDD?

Thank you.
 
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