NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

berendsp said:
You can still buy the original NH-C14. The 3.5 hard disk caddy will fit beside it.
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Koizer said:
Your thoughts are appreciated :) placing my order tonight!
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Just FYI the 3.5" HDD cage will in fact not fit with the NH-C14. That's actually an NH-C12 in the pic.
 
Necere said:
Just FYI the 3.5" HDD cage will in fact not fit with the NH-C14. That's actually an NH-C12 in the pic.
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I'm noticing an annoying trend in that Noctua's discontinued heatsinks fit the M1 better than some of the current versions.
 
These are the main components I plan on buying for my M1 v4. Will the AIO watercooler and PSU fit fine?

CPU: 5820K
MB: Asrock X99E-ITX
Cooler: Corsair H100i GTX
PSU: Silverstone SX500-LG & Short Cable Kit PP05-E
GPU: GTX970 Stock cooler
 
Vittra said:
You may not like the amount of noise / vibration that combo unit is going to give you. Bay reservoirs with pumps attached to them are noted for being loud, though it might be OK if running around 30-50% speed.
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Noise elimination is now my first priority, so this would be a concern. I don't understand how the pump choice has a bearing on the waterblock used though.

Don't suppose anyone has experience of a truly quiet pump, even within the small confines of M1?
 
2Entropy said:
Noise elimination is now my first priority, so this would be a concern. I don't understand how the pump choice has a bearing on the waterblock used though.

Don't suppose anyone has experience of a truly quiet pump, even within the small confines of M1?
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The Apogee waterblock has the pump built-in, and is one of the most compact/elegant ways of including a pump in the M1. Since the pump is integrated with the waterblock, it's not possible to use another waterblock with that pump. The res/pump combo allows this, though it may be noisier. Least noisy would probably be a D5 pump, but that'd probably be an awkward fit in the M1. You could fit one outside the M1 if you don't mind that--you'd probably only hear a gentle hum at most.
 
Nobu said:
The Apogee waterblock has the pump built-in, and is one of the most compact/elegant ways of including a pump in the M1. Since the pump is integrated with the waterblock, it's not possible to use another waterblock with that pump. The res/pump combo allows this, though it may be noisier. Least noisy would probably be a D5 pump, but that'd probably be an awkward fit in the M1. You could fit one outside the M1 if you don't mind that--you'd probably only hear a gentle hum at most.
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This one might fit fine:

https://shop.ekwb.com/ek-xres-100-revo-d5-pwm-incl-pump

Or could have pump inside case and feed to reservoir outside of course, be nice to have less piping if noise would be the same though.
 
2Entropy said:
Don't suppose anyone has experience of a truly quiet pump, even within the small confines of M1?
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I'm going to be blunt - there is no such thing. The M1 has ventilation on all sides of the case for the design to work, and as such, noise escapes it easily. On my previously watercooled M1, the PWM DDC running around 30% was still able to be heard with the system at idle. If you don't care about idle/ambient acoustics and only when gaming, then it should work well for you.

The D5 is larger and as such has a larger motor that can run at a slower RPM with similar flow/pressure rates to the DDC. As such it is typically more quiet. If you can devise a solution for a D5 in the M1, which is typically through the use of a short GPU, it will be preferable.
 
@SHwoKing, that looks like an MCP355/DDC pump, not a D5, but that is a very clean loop.
As far as the pump top, looks like this one.

EK has a new pump top/kit for D5 pumps that looks pretty compact. Of course, looks can be deceiving.
 
antok86 said:
anyone know when these will be back in stock? looking to buy one
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The current estimate is for the next production run to begin shipping in December. Edit: probably not until the new year, actually
 
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Necere said:
The current estimate is for the next production run to begin shipping in December. Edit: probably not until the new year, actually
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damn it..not what i wanted to hear.. =/ someones gotta have one sitting they can sell =)
 
Hey guys, I'm almost done with my build, I'm hoping you guys can help me iron out the last few details:

1. I've decided to go with dual fan C14, since the bottom can only fit a 120mm, what's a good fan to get that will get the job done?

2. Since C14's fans do not have PWM, is it worthwhile to not use the top 140mm fan, and get a newer Noctua fan with PWM?

3. It seems like a lot of people favor bottom fans, however, I read that using a slim fan is more ideal than 25mm. Is it worthwhile to get a 120x15mm fan for the bottom blowing into my 980 ref, or just simply leave the bottom empty?

4. Lastly, is there any room for a slim rear exhaust, or is that pointless?

Thanks guys, pretty excited to finish the build!
 
1. Any cheap fan will work. What a "good fan" is, depends on your perspective. A 3000 RPM Gentle Typhoon might be a good fan with high static pressure, but it'll never come within 10 ft of my rig because it's too loud.

2. No, PWM is supposed to be better, but it's largely the same if your motherboard supports voltage control.

3. You would have to try it out to know for sure, but I think it would help.
 
alphataru said:
Hey guys, I'm almost done with my build, I'm hoping you guys can help me iron out the last few details:

1. I've decided to go with dual fan C14, since the bottom can only fit a 120mm, what's a good fan to get that will get the job done?

2. Since C14's fans do not have PWM, is it worthwhile to not use the top 140mm fan, and get a newer Noctua fan with PWM?

3. It seems like a lot of people favor bottom fans, however, I read that using a slim fan is more ideal than 25mm. Is it worthwhile to get a 120x15mm fan for the bottom blowing into my 980 ref, or just simply leave the bottom empty?

4. Lastly, is there any room for a slim rear exhaust, or is that pointless?

Thanks guys, pretty excited to finish the build!
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Regarding brands, I agree somewhat with XelNika. You need a fan with the right characteristics for your use case. But a lot of cheap fans deliver a lot of noise for their effect.

There are many differing opinions here, but I find Corsair fans to strike a good middle ground on price per noise per performance. Can't wait to try out Fractals Venturi fans after reading reviews though.

1. I say, go with one of the fans bundled with the cooler. Use the low noise adapter and see if it yields good results. I don't think a second fan in the bottom will help you. The frame of the 120mm fan under the heatsink would block a significant part of the heatsink. See Image:
cyHJZdL.png

The big circle is the 140mm fan, the red part is where the 120mm fan blocks the airflow and the blue is still ok. Disclamer: there is no sience behind this;)

2. What XelNika said, BUT if the speeds the regular voltage controlled fan can offer is within what you need, it doesn't matter at all. It's more for better being able to fine tune the fan speeds at low RPMs. On my Asus MB i can't go below 60% fan speed on voltage controlled fans, but with a PWM fan it can actually turn off. Nevertheless I stand by what I said in 1.

3. For bottom fans, try without first and see if the GPU throttles in gaming. Never mind synthetic testing. Its unrealistic.You could also consider some DIY ducting down there. Worked better for me than fans.

4. With a C14 it is pointless. It might help if you had a cooler that was smaller and sat lower on the MB... Maybe

Generally it's important to remember that you don't need your computer to run frosty. Just cool enough for the loads you put on it. More fans = more noise. Always.
 
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Urelure said:
2. On my Asus MB i can't go below 60% fan speed on voltage controlled fans, but with a PWM fan it can actually turn off.
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But that depends on the individual model. My Impact VI lets me turn off voltage controlled fans completely. In fact, I seem to remember that a PWM fan in the CPU_fan header can't be turned off (to protect the CPU) whereas it can when voltage controlled.
 
i don't think airflow would be blocked significantly by the frame of the bottom fan, given that theres a good 40mm of heatsink between, and airflow is not perfectly straight up and down through a heatsink. I would consider it a reduction because of the frame, but well and truly offset by the additional airflow/pressure that the bottom fan can generate.

I wouldn't personally be concerned that your using different sized fans top and bottom. The same can be said for having heat pipes through the fins too.
 
okwchin said:
i don't think airflow would be blocked significantly by the frame of the bottom fan, given that theres a good 40mm of heatsink between, and airflow is not perfectly straight up and down through a heatsink. I would consider it a reduction because of the frame, but well and truly offset by the additional airflow/pressure that the bottom fan can generate.

I wouldn't personally be concerned that your using different sized fans top and bottom. The same can be said for having heat pipes through the fins too.
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Sure. But if there is enough pressure with the one fan, the effect of adding the second fan for more pressure might be eliminated or reduced by this. If you take into account that when adding the second fan, there is so little room left under the cooler that you also need more air pressure for it to work well, you might end up with not improving the cooling at all.

But you might be right. I might be over complicating things. I'll shut up about it unless I put my money where my mouth is and actually test it:)
 
XelNika said:
But that depends on the individual model. My Impact VI lets me turn off voltage controlled fans completely. In fact, I seem to remember that a PWM fan in the CPU_fan header can't be turned off (to protect the CPU) whereas it can when voltage controlled.
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Hmm... I need to go into the bios and check if i remember correctly before i say more.
 
FWIR the NF-P14 has relatively poor static pressure so you might be as well off replacing it as you would adding a second fan underneath the fin stack.
 
If blockage is really a problem, then would it be better to do two 120mm, top bottom? If I do that, I can add another case fan to the right. Do you guys think it would be better to do 3 120mm or 140 + 120mm?

Btw, thanks for answering my questions, and thanks for the diagram, Urelure, it's good stuff.
 
I still haven't received my plastic clips that I ordered months ago. I received the rest of my accessories. Anyone in the same boat?
 
alphataru said:
If blockage is really a problem, then would it be better to do two 120mm, top bottom? If I do that, I can add another case fan to the right. Do you guys think it would be better to do 3 120mm or 140 + 120mm?
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I doubt it--the 140mm fan is pulling air from the sides as well as through the smaller heatsink fins. It'd probably be about the same or worse than 140 + 120, especially since you'd have less air going through the larger fins up top.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. These things typically go through a few design iterations with prototypes for testing before they begin selling, especially if they're from an already successful brand like noctua. You can try different configurations of the fans that come with it to see if there's a better config for your situation, but generally the recommended/default config is fine (unless they cheap out on the fans, but this is noctua we're talking about...).
 
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I just noticed someone is selling one on ebay. I have been holding onto a V4 for a few months now waiting for the Corsair SF600.
 
That is sexist to assume it was a guy who told you that because the ebay seller mentioned it was being sold to help fund a custody battle..... wait did I just admit it was me???
 
So I've been looking to upgrade to an M.2 SSD solely because it will allow me to remove the SATA power connectors from my power supply. Has anyone had any issues with having an M.2 SSD that's on the back side of the motherboard (Asus Z97i-Plus) in terms of heat? I haven't done a ton of research into how hot these drives can get but I am a little concerned about the fact that there is no air flow on the backside of the motherboard.
 
s0skey said:
So I've been looking to upgrade to an M.2 SSD solely because it will allow me to remove the SATA power connectors from my power supply. Has anyone had any issues with having an M.2 SSD that's on the back side of the motherboard (Asus Z97i-Plus) in terms of heat? I haven't done a ton of research into how hot these drives can get but I am a little concerned about the fact that there is no air flow on the backside of the motherboard.
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The worst that can happen to you, is that the M.2 drive will throttle its speed if it gets too hot. This wont happen under normal circumstances and only if you stress your drive. This does not only apply for drives that are mounted on the backside. Without a heatsink airflow does not help that much with temps because of the low amount of surface area.
 
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You can also place a thermal pad on the rear of the m.2 to couple it to the chassis, which is more than enough heatsinking for a <10W SSD.
 
s0skey said:
So I've been looking to upgrade to an M.2 SSD solely because it will allow me to remove the SATA power connectors from my power supply. Has anyone had any issues with having an M.2 SSD that's on the back side of the motherboard (Asus Z97i-Plus) in terms of heat? I haven't done a ton of research into how hot these drives can get but I am a little concerned about the fact that there is no air flow on the backside of the motherboard.
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No problem so far with my M.2 SSD on an ASUS Z97i-plus in my MiniCube build.
Temp of the M.2 rises up till around 70°C when transfering files.
 
Necere said:
The 3.5" HDD cage wasn't designed to be mounted on the bottom, but you guys made me curious so I did some investigating.

First, mounting the cage lengthwise on the bottom-rear does work:

{image clipped}

As I said, it wasn't designed to mount this way, and it almost doesn't work because the side panel clips are actually pushing up against the cage when it's mounted. That makes screwing it in a little more difficult than it could be, but it does still fit. It also leaves enough space in front for a 92mm fan, as shown.

Crosswise, however, does not work:

{image clipped}

It almost fits, but unfortunately the screw holes don't line up with the slots on the chassis floor. That does mean, however, that it's only four M4 tapped holes away from mounting right up. I will note that the drive+right angle SATA connectors use the entire width of the case, and will basically be touching the side panels at either end.

Also worth noting is that neither layout allows for more than two drives on the bottom. The chassis isn't long enough for a lengthwise cage plus another lengthwise or crosswise cage, and a second crosswise cage won't fit on the rear mount due to the motherboard tray.

@bznotins
Given the above, you would be able to have one cage on the fan bracket in the forward position, and one cage on the bottom-rear mounted lengthwise. This will allow for the CPU cooler flexibility you want.
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It's been four months but MicroCenter finally had my CPU and mobo in at the same time so that I could take advantage of their combo discounts. Was tough waiting, but I finally completed the build this weekend, and it worked exactly as you said it would.

Case: NCASE M1 V4 (of course!)
PSU: SilverStone 300W SFX 80+ Bronze (ST30SF)
CPU: Skylake Core i7-6700K
HSF: Noctua NH-U9S (Single Fan)
Case Fan: An old 92mm Zalman fan I had sitting around + old Zalman FanMate I had sitting around
Mobo: ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming-ITX/ac
RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16GB 2 x 8GB DDR4-2400
SSD: 1TB Samsung 850 EVO 2.5" SATA III
Optical: Archgon CB-5021-GB Slot-loading Internal Blu-ray Burner (MatshitaBD-MLT UJ265)
HDDs: 2x4TB Seagate 3.5" + 2x3TB Hitachi 3.5"
SATA Cables: HDDs - 4x20cm Transparent Silver Wire (2 Straight-Straight + 2 Straight-Angle), SSD - http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10226&cs_id=1022602&p_id=8786&seq=1&format=2 (Straight), Optical - Came with kit
Other cables: 6inch SATA Serial ATA Splitter Power Cable

The build went very smoothly. It was annoying to have to install Win8.1, upgrade to Win10, get the key, and then wipe/re-install Win10, but it worked fine. I also hear that Windows in the new builds is going to allow Win7/8/8.1 keys to work on Win10 fresh installs, so that will be nice.

I normally wouldn't list cables in a build, but in the event anyone is trying to replicate this one, I thought I would note that the cables were all "snug" in their fit. They are a touch stiff and I was a little uncomfortable with some twisting/bending but they all fit and work fine. I might add an inch to all the SATA cables (except optical) but then there could be even more cable-bunching in an already-tight environment.

The 92mm case fan at the bottom "fits" but it forces an uncomfortable bend in the front-panel cable. Also of note is that the PCI-E slot is effectively blocked by the two HDDs in the bottom cage. That isn't an issue for me since this is a server and not a gaming rig or HTPC and thus I'm perfectly happy with onboard video.

Power consumption as measured by my Ubiquiti mPower mFi is 35W at long-idle. That's 3W more than my old Sandy-Bridge server (which used a 430W Corsair ATX PSU and a basic H67 mobo). Was hoping I could drop power-consumption a bit here given Skylake's better idle consumption and the 300W bronze PSU, but I imagine the fancy Z170 gaming mobo uses more power with all its additional features and overclocking capability.

Overall I'm very happy with the build. I haven't tested load temps but idle CPU temps are in the mid-20s (ambient in the high teens).

One thing I would change is to reverse the orientation of the PSU so that it sucked air in from the side, but the internal PSU cable would have to bend to a degree I wasn't comfortable with in order for that to work.

Now for pics (sorry about the potato camera):

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Phuncz said:
You don't need to apologize for well-lit and sharp photos which obviously are not "potato camera" quality.
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The first one is pretty blurry and doesn't do the elegance of the M1 justice. Plan to take a better photo this weekend if I can.
 
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