Nvidia has the GTX1660, and has access to the same processes that AMD does...
Not even talking about that. 1660 is going to be cheaper 1060 + 10% or so. My point was on RTX series. Never even mentioned the standard Turing cards.
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Nvidia has the GTX1660, and has access to the same processes that AMD does...
Not even talking about that. 1660 is going to be cheaper 1060 + 10% or so. My point was on RTX series. Never even mentioned the standard Turing cards.
Huh, I guess that explains why Intel is sticking with 14nm...
If we're talking about the DXR-less Navi GPU, the RTX-less Turing GPUs are clearly in play.
Talking about die sizes. Not just process. RTX series is expensive because they are larger even if 12nm is cheaper at this point. AMD will Be able to harvest more dies from 7nm even if it's more expensive.
RTX series is more expensive to make. It's pretty common knowledge at this point.
But AMD is hurting on the discrete GPU market share, only 19% last quarter (81% for Nvidia).
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-amd-discrete-gpu-market-share-q4-2018-report/
They need to do something drastic if they want to stay in the game.
You have to use some common sense.
If NVIDIA can take Turing and die shrink it to 7nm to make it cheaper, NVIDIA would have already done it.
Clearly, at the moment, it's cheaper to have a bigger die on an older process than a smaller die on a newer process.
So nvidia should have mass produced 7nm when it wasn't ready last September? Yeah common sense. 12nm is mature process doesnt mean those dies are cheap. If nvidia could have made them on 7nm they would have. Problem is it wants ready for prime time. Why keep debating this RTX chips are big and expensive even every report has said that and it reflects in their pricing. When they go to 7nm it will be better but clearly it wasn't an option in 2020 they will.
Then how come Apple can do it?
Possibly.And what are you proposing?
...for AMD to go into a price war with NVIDIA?
mobile chips vs discrete GPUs? I thought you were better than this lol.
Point is, TSMC's 7nm was clearly available.
Possibly.
What I am saying is that they need something that is either faster than Nvidia, cheaper, better in some tangible way (efficiency, etc.), or all of those things.
Nvidia is just too dominant for AMD to release another card that is maybe equal to Nvidia's last gen with the same prices.
Possibly.
What I am saying is that they need something that is either faster than Nvidia, cheaper, better in some tangible way (efficiency, etc.), or all of those things.
Nvidia is just too dominant for AMD to release another card that is maybe equal to Nvidia's last gen with the same prices.
Point is its not the same process, 7nm has different tiers. You can't compare apple pushing mobile chips to discrete GPUs common now. One is high performance node the other is mobile chips. Much easier to make then high end GPUs.
Regardless, NVIDIA has access to the same process as AMD does.
If (and that's a big if) 7nm is such a huge advantage as you make it out to be...
Do you really think that NVIDIA would let AMD have that advantage all to itself?
AMD will have 7nm chips before them, that's a fact. Again my point is this. Turing is expensive because those big dies are expensive. Nvidia released it on 12nm because they could price it high. If they had the capacity on 7nm and it was already mature they would have gone for it. Because the cost savings and being able to harvest more dies would have been fine since they were going to price this shit sky high anyways.
They didn't do it because 7nm wasn't ready for primetime for high end GPUs last year in September and looks like TSMC was pretty booked. Reason Nvidia is leaning on Samsung for 7nm as the rumors suggest.
Anyways cheers. We can agree to disagree.
AMD will have 7nm chips before them, that's a fact. Again my point is this. Turing is expensive because those big dies are expensive. Nvidia released it on 12nm because they could price it high. If they had the capacity on 7nm and it was already mature they would have gone for it. Because the cost savings and being able to harvest more dies would have been fine since they were going to price this shit sky high anyways.
They didn't do it because 7nm wasn't ready for primetime for high end GPUs last year in September and looks like TSMC was pretty booked. Reason Nvidia is leaning on Samsung for 7nm as the rumors suggest.
Anyways cheers. We can agree to disagree.
Will have? Radeon VII is out on 7nm. I have one.AMD will have 7nm chips before them, that's a fact.
Evidently that's not actually true now due to the maturity of the process. The yield for 12nm silicon is much higher than 7nm, so 7nm chips even with the smaller die size are actually more expensive than nvidia's larger chips. Nvidia is charging more money because they can get away with it, who's to stop them?
Will have? Radeon VII is out on 7nm. I have one.
https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-vii
I can tell you right now that yield from a brand new process is going to be worse than a matured process.
AMD would disagree this summer lol.
Really?
...and when did AMD said that?
So AMD is not launching 7nm zen parts mid year? If yields were so bad it wouldn't be happening.
That's a red herring
The 7nm die used in Zen 2 is tiny compared to, let's say, the 7nm die used in Radeon VII
Lol weren't you the one who said Nvidia could do it if apple could do it. So apple isn't making tiny chips?
As far as radon 7 goes. Yeilds seem fine. They have been making the 7nm instinct card for months now. Seems overblown for yield issues. It's not a giant die.
Yes, NVIDIA could.
Yield would be bad and price would be high
AMD Radeon Instinct MI60/MI50 sell for thousands of dollars.
AMD is hardly making a profit with Radeon VII.
Man I purely discussing the die size. I don't have a horse the race. If navi comes in below 300 and gives you close to vega performance. It's because AMD can afford to do it due to die size. That's all I am saying.
But that is the point- if AMD has pricing freedom due to node size, Nvidia has the same.
RX480/580 (Polaris) is 230mm2, GTX1060 (GP106) is 200mm2. Why would AMD have an advantage?
You do realize that they're usually less space and power effecient for gaming, right?
..navi seems to have bigger tweaks and designed around 7nm in mind. I am betting its lot more efficient then what we have seen recently from nvidia.
Please prove yields are bad on 7nm. Let's not keep switching and throwing things at the wall. There is no indication yields are horrible.
Are you stupid?What?
It looks like an upsized and shrunk Polaris; that's not inherently bad, but AMD has a really bad record of 'optimizations' getting more than a linear boost in performance. I'm not writing Navi off either; maybe AMD will break their decade-long trend, maybe not.
I think navi is suppose to be alot more leaner than vega. More work seems to have gone in to it over the years and rumor about it doing Variable rate shading. Rumor about more engineers devoted to Navi with Sony. May be will finally make something that will be efficient at gaming not only when used for compute.
Well, it is leaner; what we're speculating on is whether it's leaner than Polaris, and whether that will make Navi more competitive not just compared to what we have now, but also compared to what Nvidia has coming and hell what Intel has coming.
I would be truly surprised if Intel has something to match the competition first go around. May be second time they might have something really impressive when Raja has had more time.